Detroit Locker on the street?
Steven J Orlin
Does anyone run a Detroit locker on the street in their
daily driver, or 'street car', and if so, how does it change
the way the car handles around corners, and suddle lane changes
on the highway?
I've heard that it makes a clicking sound when it unlocks
(annoying to the Grey Poupon guy, reassuring to us car guys),
and that it can make your car a little squirrly. Hoping some
people can elaborate from direct experience.
Also, any reliability problems with one?
Thanks a lot!!
Steve
Brent L Maksymiw
Steve,
A friend of mine runs a Detroit Locker in his 1991 GT. Under
certain conditions (sharp turns, low speed corners) it makes a hell of a
racket. It can really get to you while driving around town. However, it
is a small price to pay to get rid of the Ford traction-slop :)
He has been running it for about 2 years (even some winter
driving) with no problems. It doesn't seem to make much of a
handling difference at highway speeds.
Brent
Richard Doherty
}Detroit Locker on the street?{
Ż SJO> Does anyone run a Detroit locker on the street in their
Ż SJO> daily driver, or 'street car', and if so, how does it change
Ż SJO> the way the car handles around corners, and suddle lane changes
Ż SJO> on the highway?
I have one in my Rod <the GTO> and can honestly say I have no problems
with it. Is very nice going into corners or when slamming the gas.
Mine is not as sensitive to slight turning but kicks in when you have a
damn good spin starting on one tire. Leaves a nice pair of streaks when
I slam the gas.
Ż SJO> I've heard that it makes a clicking sound when it unlocks
Ż SJO> (annoying to the Grey Poupon guy, reassuring to us car guys),
Ż SJO> and that it can make your car a little squirrly. Hoping some
Ż SJO> people can elaborate from direct experience.
This is directly related to the quality of the locker and wear/age of
the rear end as well as the gearing in it. Heavy gears go best with a
Detroit. Ford 9"'s are really nice with them as are chevy 12 bolt's.
Bad setups and light gears/worn rear ends can mean a slamming of the
locker from one side to the other with a bang not a click.
Squirrily is in the eye of the beholder but I have seen cars almost
thrown to the ditch when that locker hits the left wheel in a hard
accelleration. With a nice one you won't even fishtail. I don't.
Ż SJO> Also, any reliability problems with one?
They are heavy and tend to last forever. On the other hand when they get
worn, unlike a clutch disk limited slip they will make life interesting.
Fortunatly it often takes 20+ years of hard driving to accomplish this.
ţ ťRaben Taggenť ţ Have you any Grey Poupon?
Steven J Orlin
In article <2cd.1...@destiny.island.net>,
Richard Doherty <richard...@destiny.island.net> wrote:
>I have one in my Rod <the GTO> and can honestly say I have no problems
>with it. Is very nice going into corners or when slamming the gas.
>Mine is not as sensitive to slight turning but kicks in when you have a
>damn good spin starting on one tire. Leaves a nice pair of streaks when
>I slam the gas.
Could you tell me what you mean by "kicks in when you have a....".
Are you telling me that for most of a sharp corner, the thing
acts as a spool, screeching along one tire and then finally unlocking?
I don't follow ..
Does this behavior cause any safety problems, does it ever catch
you by surprise or make you spin out when you don't want to?
>This is directly related to the quality of the locker and wear/age of
>the rear end as well as the gearing in it. Heavy gears go best with a
>Detroit. Ford 9"'s are really nice with them as are chevy 12 bolt's.
Aren't all lockers the same? i.e. made by Ford Motorsports? Are
there ones by different manufacturers that use this 'ratcheting'
design? Also, could you tell me by any chance how these things
work exactly or where I could get a blown apart view ?
> Bad setups and light gears/worn rear ends can mean a slamming of the
>locker from one side to the other with a bang not a click.
yeah, I need a better understanding of how these things work.
> Squirrily is in the eye of the beholder but I have seen cars almost
>thrown to the ditch when that locker hits the left wheel in a hard
>accelleration. With a nice one you won't even fishtail. I don't.
When you say 'a nice one' it sounds like some come from the factory
with a bad attitude, and some come happy :) I don't mind it
being a little rough, but I don't want one if it's going to be
unsafe. I would use it with either 3.23 or 3.50 gears in a Ford
9" rear.
Steve
dat...@email.mot.com
i have a 4.56 gear - Locker in my boss 302 it's not a daily diver and
its noisy
but if you have the hp its fun to get instant traction ....don't be scard
of it .....
Steve Nolan
sno...@manager7.comm.mot.com
In article <4nvgoj$d...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
sor...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) wrote:
>
> Does anyone run a Detroit locker on the street in their
> daily driver, or 'street car', and if so, how does it change
> the way the car handles around corners, and suddle lane changes
> on the highway?
>
> I've heard that it makes a clicking sound when it unlocks
> (annoying to the Grey Poupon guy, reassuring to us car guys),
> and that it can make your car a little squirrly. Hoping some
> people can elaborate from direct experience.
>
> Also, any reliability problems with one?
>
>
> Thanks a lot!!
>
>
>
> Steve
Bradley Sanders
sor...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>Does anyone run a Detroit locker on the street in their
>daily driver, or 'street car', and if so, how does it change
>the way the car handles around corners, and suddle lane changes
>on the highway?
By buddy put one in his '73 340 Duster. Made it quite a handful in the
rain - and FORGET driving it on someone's lawn! We were kids then, and
I still remember him getting chewed out for tearing up his Mom's lawn.
We did the job in the backyard, and even idling away caused the inside
tire to chew a nice arc across the yard.
I *really* like the 8.8" - I don't care what everyone says!
Bradley Sanders
Supreme Commander, Internacionale Moustache Wax
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/1303
Richard Doherty
}Re: Detroit Locker on the street?{
¯ SJO> Richard Doherty <richard...@destiny.island.net> wrote:
¯ >I have one in my Rod <the GTO> and can honestly say I have no problems
¯ >with it. Is very nice going into corners or when slamming the gas.
¯ >Mine is not as sensitive to slight turning but kicks in when you have a
¯ >damn good spin starting on one tire. Leaves a nice pair of streaks when
¯ >I slam the gas.
¯ SJO> Could you tell me what you mean by "kicks in when you have a....".
¯ SJO> Are you telling me that for most of a sharp corner, the thing
¯ SJO> acts as a spool, screeching along one tire and then finally unlocking?
¯ SJO> I don't follow ..
Ok, a locker kicks in all at once or not at all, follow me?
So usually it will shift between the two sides depending on which has
the most spin. Mine will require the one side <usually left> have
more than <I think, can check if neccesary> 40% more spin than the other
tire. This only happens when A> I dig into the throttle and one tire
breaks free and spins across the pavement or B> one tire is on something
fairly slick and cannot get traction. I have never got mine to lock in a
corner.
¯ SJO> Does this behavior cause any safety problems, does it ever catch
¯ SJO> you by surprise or make you spin out when you don't want to?
Never for me. I don't spin out ever and if I did it wouldn't be because
of my locker.
¯ >This is directly related to the quality of the locker and wear/age of
¯ >the rear end as well as the gearing in it. Heavy gears go best with a
¯ >Detroit. Ford 9"'s are really nice with them as are chevy 12 bolt's.
¯ SJO> Aren't all lockers the same? i.e. made by Ford Motorsports? Are
¯ SJO> there ones by different manufacturers that use this 'ratcheting'
¯ SJO> design? Also, could you tell me by any chance how these things
¯ SJO> work exactly or where I could get a blown apart view ?
Nope. There are several makes of lockers. The design and majority of
ones on the markets are the ford type, made <I think> by Dana
then given a Ford part number. Mine is a high quality aftermarket
Dana locker I bought off a '55 chevy dragster being parted out.
It only had 25 runs made before it was removed with the rear end.
As for an exploded view, I would reccomend a Dana rear end
repair or shop manual. Any decent one should give a full
diagram of the locker rear end.
¯ > Bad setups and light gears/worn rear ends can mean a slamming of the
¯ >locker from one side to the other with a bang not a click.
¯
¯ SJO> yeah, I need a better understanding of how these things work.
I will dig out some info and mail it to you on tuesday or wednesday
when I go back to the shop. My partner has used 'em since the early
sixties and know more than I do. I have only seen the clutch type
limited slip diff actually pulled apart.
¯ > Squirrily is in the eye of the beholder but I have seen cars almost
¯ >thrown to the ditch when that locker hits the left wheel in a hard
¯ >accelleration. With a nice one you won't even fishtail. I don't.
¯
¯ SJO> When you say 'a nice one' it sounds like some come from the factory
¯ SJO> with a bad attitude, and some come happy :) I don't mind it
¯ SJO> being a little rough, but I don't want one if it's going to be
¯ SJO> unsafe. I would use it with either 3.23 or 3.50 gears in a Ford
¯ SJO> 9" rear.
Nope, there were lot's of aftermarket types of lockers for racing and
street applications. Dana had three or four types alone I think for 9"
ford. The factory <If they actually made one, I can't remember if ford
made it or not> one was prone to become real banger after awhile <20
years is a short while with these things keep in mind!!!>.
Go for it if you want one, they are simple and tough and NEVER break
really, if it gets to hard a bang you can alway's pull the pumpkin and
put a new one in. I have never seen someone have serious difficulty with
them. The worst case is having one bang the car into a left fishtail
every time you slam on the gas from a standstill. By the time it get's
that bad you would want to replace ANY rear end, no matter what type!
þ Raben Taggen þ Gee... What's that ticking in the corner.
shockman
>sor...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>
>>Does anyone run a Detroit locker on the street in their
>>daily driver, or 'street car', and if so, how does it change
>>the way the car handles around corners, and suddle lane changes
>>on the highway?
>
Ran one in a 70 MACH 1 for years. Only problem I had was going around
corners in the rain. Inside tire would not unlock. Not enough
cohesion to activate the unlocking of the diff. I also had some funny
experiences at the drag strip after the unit was well used and broken
in. After going through the wet box for a burnout, the unit sometimes
would not lock-up completely when doing dry hops. Nothing like
getting really squirrely and chasing the guy running the tree off from
the pre-staging area to endear yourself with the track crew. Other
than that: RELIABLE, STURDY, BULLETPROOF, ETC... get the message!!
Just run 140W oil in the summer and 90W in the cooler months. Running
heavier oil helps take the "THUNK" out of it a little bit. The
NO-SPIN corporations also makes heavier springs to set the
differentiation threshold higher than normal. Might not want this for
the street though!
Shockman
P. J. Remner
In a previous article, sor...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) says:
>In article <2cd.1...@destiny.island.net>,
>Richard Doherty <richard...@destiny.island.net> wrote:
>>I have one in my Rod <the GTO> and can honestly say I have no problems
>>with it. Is very nice going into corners or when slamming the gas.
>>Mine is not as sensitive to slight turning but kicks in when you have a
>>damn good spin starting on one tire. Leaves a nice pair of streaks when
>>I slam the gas.
>
>Could you tell me what you mean by "kicks in when you have a....".
>Are you telling me that for most of a sharp corner, the thing
>acts as a spool, screeching along one tire and then finally unlocking?
>I don't follow ..
>
> {and later, at the Bat-Cave...}
>
>Aren't all lockers the same? i.e. made by Ford Motorsports? Are
>there ones by different manufacturers that use this 'ratcheting'
>design? Also, could you tell me by any chance how these things
>work exactly or where I could get a blown apart view ?
>
Okay, take all of your knowlege of how differentials work and throw
them out the window. :-)
Now, imagine a pair of transmission synchro sliders and gears. Each axle
has a "synchro" attached where a spider gear would normally be, and the
"synchro gears" are permanently attached to the diff case, so that the
"axle synchros" are in the middle of the case. I believe that there are
also some strong springs pressing the "axle synchros" into the "case gears".
Still with me? I'm sorry, my terminology is all out of order tonight...
Okay, here's how it works: Going in a straight line, the springs hold
the axles' toothed bits tight against the case's, so the axles are solidly
engaged with the case and the diff is locked like a spool.
Now, go around a corner. When cornering, the outside wheel and axle are
forced inward, compressing the springs and disengaging the toothed bits
for the outside wheel. The inside wheel ONLY is receiving power, while
the outside wheel is freewheeling. So, when you accelerate in a corner,
the inside wheel is overpowered, and so it starts to spin. This ain't
good, and as I explain it, it answers my question of "Why do people say
you shouldn't accelerate in corners with a Locker?", because in that
situation, you have one wheel receiving no power, and the other wheel
is contributing nothing but smoke. Unless, of course, you spin the wheel
at the end of a corner, and when the springs in the Locker can overpower
the wheel pushing in, the internal splines engage and that wheel starts
spinning too, "kicking in and leaving a nice pair of streaks."
Oh, something just occurred to me - the splines on the axles and diff
case are arranged on a disk instead of on a shaft.
For those that would rather read a sound bite than a detailed explanation:
It's a locked diff that unlocks the outside wheel in a corner.
(But you're missing *so* much, go back and read it anyway, make me happy)
--
'72 429 Thunderbird: Because size *does* matter.
Chewy coffee is good coffee.
This post was not sent by P. J. Remner.
It was the result of sunspots, and is completely random.
Frank Evan Perdicaro
I run a mechanical locker, a LockRite, in my Chevelle. The car is set
up for road work, not drag race. The locker substantially alters
handling.
Lockers give you understeer. My car has enough power for power
oversteer, but has new negative camber control arms. The result is
that all high-power steering is done by throttle.
Constant radius turns ( like exit ramps ) that have previously resulted
in potential power oversteer spin now go to four wheel drift.
Low speed corners out of the smear zone of the tires are still a
bit unpredictable. In the dirt, the car is a lot of fun.
This type of setup is not suitable for inexperienced drivers.
--
Frank Evan Perdicaro Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today. 3700 Segerstrom Ave
inhouse: frank@server, x258 Santa Ana CA
outhouse: fr...@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x258 92704 DoD:1097