Anybody swapped a rotary into a fiat x1/9?
Kevin Haddock
done one of these? Anyone have any ideas on what I am going to be facing?
Any kits out there to make things easier?
Thanks in advance,
-Kevin
fi...@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu
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"A politician is a person who can make waves and then make you think
he's the only one who can save the ship." --- Ivern Ball
Dave Williams
-> I am considering swapping a 13b rotary into a Fiat x1/9.
Rotsa ruck.
-> Has anyone done one of these?
Not that I've ever heard of. It doesn't sound like a particularly
useful swap. Is the 13B free or something?
-> Anyone have any ideas on what I am going to be facing?
A bad case of empty wallet, for sure. You can put anything into
anything if you try hard enough, but the rotary is a very wide piece of
equipment. Depending on which way it faces, you're going to have
serious interference between the transmission and intake/exhaust
manifolds, or you're going to have to carve the firewall out to clear
them. You need to fabricate an adapter plate accurate to .010 or less,
you need to figure out some way to rig a starter (Mazda rotaries put the
starter on the transmission, not the engine) and so forth.
When you're done, you have 130-150hp, depending on which 13B variant
you used. For the money, it'd be a lot simpler to look for a more
powerful four, one of the generic twincam/4valve Japanese engines would
be fine. Some of the 2.0 turbo motors are rated at 175 to 200hp.
If that's not enough, your best bet is to find the complete
engine/transaxle arrangement out of some front wheel drive car, like a
Taurus SHO or a late Turbo Regal. You'll have to do a little fitting
and carving, and probably build a subframe to get good attachment
points. No trouble for any welding shop. Then you'll have to adapt the
halfshafts, maybe adjust the length of the toe links, and all the other
usual tweaks, but it'd come out a lot less expensive than trying to
match a rotary up to a Fiat transmission.
Dana Sullivan
: -> I am considering swapping a 13b rotary into a Fiat x1/9.
: Rotsa ruck.
: -> Has anyone done one of these?
: Not that I've ever heard of. It doesn't sound like a particularly
: useful swap. Is the 13B free or something?
: -> Anyone have any ideas on what I am going to be facing?
: A bad case of empty wallet, for sure.
Yeah, right, $400 for a 13B from a junk yard
: You can put anything into
: anything if you try hard enough, but the rotary is a very wide piece of
: equipment. Depending on which way it faces, you're going to have
: serious interference between the transmission and intake/exhaust
: manifolds, or you're going to have to carve the firewall out to clear
: them.
What type of rotary engine are you thinking of? The 13B in my 1986 RX-7
is only 14 inches wide, the intake and exhaust are on the same side.
There are no valves to mess with, no damn moving parts! The engine is
TINY, not a huge monster like you think. It's about the size of a 15
gallon beer keg.
: You need to fabricate an adapter plate accurate to .010 or less,
: you need to figure out some way to rig a starter (Mazda rotaries put the
: starter on the transmission, not the engine) and so forth.
My transmission and rear-end would fit in a fiat fine. Tri-Point
engineering in Canoga Park, CA has had great success in racing their
Spitfire rotary, along with some other hybrids. That's the great thing
about rotaries, you can fit them into any engine compartment.
: When you're done, you have 130-150hp, depending on which 13B variant
: you used. For the money, it'd be a lot simpler to look for a more
: powerful four, one of the generic twincam/4valve Japanese engines would
: be fine. Some of the 2.0 turbo motors are rated at 175 to 200hp.
Bullshit! My engine puts out 180 horsepower, and it's only mildly tuned.
A ported rotary can easily produce 200 horsepower naturally apsirated,
over 300 turbo charged. Tri-Point has won the SCCA Pro-Solo tour
championship 3 years in a row now in the FP category with their 87 RX-7
turbo, which puts out a conservative 400 horsepower with a Garret T04
turbo, and an electromotive TEC-II.
: If that's not enough, your best bet is to find the complete
: engine/transaxle arrangement out of some front wheel drive car, like a
: Taurus SHO or a late Turbo Regal. You'll have to do a little fitting
: and carving, and probably build a subframe to get good attachment
: points. No trouble for any welding shop. Then you'll have to adapt the
: halfshafts, maybe adjust the length of the toe links, and all the other
: usual tweaks, but it'd come out a lot less expensive than trying to
: match a rotary up to a Fiat transmission.
:
Yeah, right. Put a 500 pound cast iron V6 in a tiny Fiat and flatten and
front suspension. A rotary weighs about 220 pounds with the intake
manifold off. My buddies and I don't need a cherry picker when we take my
engine out, we can just lift it out by hand!
Please, no flames. I'm a big rotary fan, they make great power out of
tiny cubes. I just think this guy has a huge bias for some reason, and
very mis-informed.
Send mail to rx7club...@cb.cbjjn.att.com and join the rotary mailing
list.
Dana Sullivan
ske...@netcom.com
DAVID JORY
>Dave Williams (dave.w...@chaos.lrk.ar.us) wrote:
>: You need to fabricate an adapter plate accurate to .010 or less,
>: you need to figure out some way to rig a starter (Mazda rotaries put the
>: starter on the transmission, not the engine) and so forth.
>
>My transmission and rear-end would fit in a fiat fine. Tri-Point
>engineering in Canoga Park, CA has had great success in racing their
>Spitfire rotary, along with some other hybrids. That's the great thing
>about rotaries, you can fit them into any engine compartment.
>
The rotary engine may fit in any engine compartment, but I really dont
think you could use your transmission and rear end in the fiat X1/9 as
this car is rear engine/rear drive as far as I know.
David Jory i92...@redgum.ucnv.edu.au
Joel A. Frahm
>Dave Williams (dave.w...@chaos.lrk.ar.us) wrote:
>
>
>What type of rotary engine are you thinking of? The 13B in my 1986 RX-7
>is only 14 inches wide, the intake and exhaust are on the same side.
>There are no valves to mess with, no damn moving parts! The engine is
>TINY, not a huge monster like you think. It's about the size of a 15
>gallon beer keg.
>
>
>My transmission and rear-end would fit in a fiat fine. Tri-Point
>engineering in Canoga Park, CA has had great success in racing their
>Spitfire rotary, along with some other hybrids. That's the great thing
>about rotaries, you can fit them into any engine compartment.
>
Uhh, There's no tunnel for the driveshaft, It's a mid-engine rear drive
car. All the cooling system plumbing runs through a box under there
with the shift linkage. Nasty mess. The hydralic clutch could probably
get swapped. The tiny radiator would have to go, and I think it would
be a mess to get a bigger one in there. No engine mounts in the front
trunk, no real firewall. The great weight distribution of these wonderful
cars would be shot to hell. There is a swap of a 2.0 DOHC motor with
either a Lancia Scorpion transaxle, or maybe there is a car that shares
that part, as Scorpion parts are pretty rare.
-Joel (fr...@ucsu.colorado.edu)
Dave Williams
-> Yeah, right, $400 for a 13B from a junk yard
A $400 junkyard 13B ain't gonna be much motor.
-> What type of rotary engine are you thinking of? The 13B in my 1986
-> RX-7 is only 14 inches wide, the intake and exhaust are on the same
-> side. There are no valves to mess with, no damn moving parts! The
-> engine is TINY, not a huge monster like you think. It's about the
-> size of a 15 gallon beer keg.
The 12A in my '79 RX-7 is over 20 inches wide, and the width is all
down low, the better to cause interference with steering and chassis if
you try to swap it to another car.
If you think a rotary has no moving parts, you're seriously wrong.
-> My transmission and rear-end would fit in a fiat fine. Tri-Point
-> engineering in Canoga Park, CA has had great success in racing their
-> Spitfire rotary, along with some other hybrids. That's the great
-> thing about rotaries, you can fit them into any engine compartment.
So you're going to convert a mid-engine Fiat X1/9 to front engine, rear
wheel drive? Using a Spitfire conversion kit? Rotsa ruck, pal.
-> Bullshit! My engine puts out 180 horsepower, and it's only mildly
-> tuned.
And it only cost $400?
-> A ported rotary can easily produce 200 horsepower naturally
-> apsirated, over 300 turbo charged.
And I can buy one of those for $400?
-> Tri-Point has won the SCCA
-> Pro-Solo tour championship 3 years in a row now in the FP category
-> with their 87 RX-7 turbo, which puts out a conservative 400
-> horsepower with a Garret T04 turbo, and an electromotive TEC-II.
And those cost $400 as well?
-> Yeah, right. Put a 500 pound cast iron V6 in a tiny Fiat and flatten
-> and front suspension. A rotary weighs about 220 pounds with the
-> intake manifold off. My buddies and I don't need a cherry picker when
-> we take my engine out, we can just lift it out by hand!
What 500 pound cast iron V6 are you thinking of? A '60s GMC 401? A
complete Buick V6 weighs 375 pounds, a 2.8-3.1 Chevy 60 degree V6 350
pounds, Ford 2.8/2.9 V6 305 pounds, Peugeot-Renault-Volvo V6 375 pounds.
Now, according to Jack Yamaguchi's rotary book - you *have* heard of
Jack Yamaguchi? - the 12A weighs 348 pounds. The 13B is bigger around
and longer, and presumably weighs even more.
-> Please, no flames. I'm a big rotary fan, they make great power out of
-> tiny cubes. I just think this guy has a huge bias for some reason,
-> and very mis-informed.
Big rotary fan, eh? Sounds like more Wankel Wanker bullshit to me.
Next time you want to call someone misinformed, bring a few facts to the
discussion. You're too silly to rate one of my finely crafted flames.
-> Send mail to rx7club...@cb.cbjjn.att.com and join the rotary
-> mailing list.
Strange. I've been on that list for a couple of years now, and am
quite active on it. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention?