Daimler? Benz? Jaguar? What's the connection?
Dennis Watson
Ford. So, I hope someone can help me understand why Daimler cars look just
like Jaguars. And does the Benz in Daimler-Benz have anything to do with
Mercedes Benz?
While we're on the subject, there's got to be some relationship between between
Bentley and Rolls Royce right? Perhaps similar to the Plymouth Chrysler thing?
Thanks,
DennisW
Stephen H. Westin
> I know that Chrysler has merged with Daimler Benz, and that Jaguar
> is owned by Ford. So, I hope someone can help me understand why
> Daimler cars look just like Jaguars. And does the Benz in
> Daimler-Benz have anything to do with Mercedes Benz?
Yes. Karl Benz built his first 3-wheeled automobile in Mannheim,
Germany about the same time (1885) Gottlieb Daimler built his
motorcycle in Stuttgart. The efforts of both men developed into
companies that manufactured cars (among other things; Daimler was a
notable supplier of engines for airships and aircraft, for instance).
Daimler named one model after Mercedes Jellinek, the daughter of the
French importer of daimler automobiles. This model was so well
received that soon all Daimler cars were called Mercedes; the
trademark was registered in 1902.
In 1926, during a very bad period for the German economy, Daimler and
Benz were forced to merge, creating the company Daimler Benz and the
brand Mercedes Benz. To this day, their insignia is the three-pointed
Daimler (Mercedes) star surrounded by the Benz wreath.
As for the Jaguar/Daimler, Daimler had an English affiliate early on
that built Daimler cars under license; this company eventually broke
ties with Stuttgart and became a well-regarded manufacturer of luxury
cars. For many years, the British Monarch was transported in a Daimler
rather than a Rolls-Royce. Daimler's fortunes waned after WW II, and
it was absorbed by Jaguar around 1960, I believe. For a while,
Daimler's V8 engine was available in a re-badged Jaguar sedan, but
eventually Daimler just became a trim level in the Jaguar lineup.
Actually, there were many trans-national affiliations in the early
days that took different paths; there was an Austrian Daimler plant
that became independent; Ferdinand Porsche was their chief engineer
for a while, and they eventually merged into Steyr-Daimler-Puch, who
makes mopeds and 4WD vehicles (including the Mercedes G-Wagen), and is
a joint partner in Chrysler's European assembly plant, assembling
Jeeps and minivans. There even was a U.S. plant!
>
> While we're on the subject, there's got to be some relationship
> between between Bentley and Rolls Royce right? Perhaps similar to
> the Plymouth Chrysler thing?
Not really. More like the Cadillac/Buick thing, or the
Packard/Studebaker thing.
Rolls-Royce was, of course, a well-regarded manufacturer of luxury
cars; Walter Owen Bentley built expensive high-performance cars; they
are famous for winning Le Mans several times in the '20s. In the dark
days of the early '30s (1931?), Bentley was bankrupt and Rolls-Royce
bought them. One story has it that they did so just to keep Napier, a
competitor, from getting the company.
Anyway, Bentleys were gradually integrated into the Rolls-Royce
product lineup; after the war, I think they were basically the
sportier body styles of RR. The nadir came in the '70s and '80s, when
a Bentley was just a RR with different grille and badges. I think it
survived mainly from a vague sense of tradition. Then RR started to
build Bentley as an independent brand, first with the Mulsanne Turbo
R, then with unique, more sports-oriented body styles. RR started to
depend on BMW more and more for engines and technical assistance.
Most recently, BMW and VW competed to buy RR; the final settlement was
that BMW got the name Rolls-Royce (in the automotive field only) and
the factory, and VW got the Bentley name. VW is busily working to
differentiate Bentley from the BMW-based Rolls-Royce cars; it seems to
be an outlet for the wildest high-end concepts of VW and Audi.
--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
Gert Barnstedt
: I know that Chrysler has merged with Daimler Benz, and that Jaguar is owned by
: like Jaguars. And does the Benz in Daimler-Benz have anything to do with
: Mercedes Benz?
: While we're on the subject, there's got to be some relationship between between
Well, I can't help you with the first point, I just think they don't look
that much alike, except for some details (headlights for ex.).
The Benz in both Mercedes Benz and Daimler Benz comes from Carl Benz who
invented the first German car in 1886. Gottlieb August Daimler on his side
came up with the first motorcycle and also produced cars lateron. Their
companies were joined in 1929 and became Daimler Benz. The called their
cars Mercedes for the daughter of one of their first dealers (or sthg like
that).
The relationship between Bentley and Rolls simply is that Rolls has owned
Bentley for ages (since the fifties or sixties I think) and they always
produced the kind of sporty Rollses. This of course has changed since VW
bought Bentley and BMW will get Rolls in a few years.
Gert Barnstedt
Leroy Curtis
<westin*nos...@graphics.cornell.edu> writes
>noSPAM-...@magma.ca (Dennis Watson) writes:
>
>> I know that Chrysler has merged with Daimler Benz, and that Jaguar
>> is owned by Ford. So, I hope someone can help me understand why
>> Daimler cars look just like Jaguars. And does the Benz in
>> Daimler-Benz have anything to do with Mercedes Benz?
>
>
>Daimler named one model after Mercedes Jellinek, the daughter of the
>French importer of daimler automobiles. This model was so well
>received that soon all Daimler cars were called Mercedes; the
>trademark was registered in 1902.
>
actually the Austrian pro-consul to Nice at the time) made it a
condition of his agreement to import the cars to France that they be
called Mercedes, since he felt a name as Germanic as Daimler would
hamper sales.
<More snippage>
>
>As for the Jaguar/Daimler, Daimler had an English affiliate early on
>that built Daimler cars under license; this company eventually broke
>ties with Stuttgart
The Daimler Motor Syndicate was initially formed in 1893 by engineer F R
Simms to fit engines to motor launches. Simms had acquired the rights to
Daimler patents from Gottlieb Daimler in 1889 for the United Kingdom and
colonies (except Canada). Car manufacture began in 1895. I don't believe
they ever built German Daimler cars as such; they built the vehicles
under patent license from the German company as far as I can gather.
> and became a well-regarded manufacturer of luxury
>cars. For many years, the British Monarch was transported in a Daimler
>rather than a Rolls-Royce.
Until the ascent of the present Queen, every monarch from Edward VII,
the first royal motorist, had specified Daimlers for the royal mews.
> Daimler's fortunes waned after WW II,
They had been taken over by the British Small Arms company in 1910
> and
>it was absorbed by Jaguar around 1960,
1960 is correct.
>I believe. For a while,
>Daimler's V8 engine was available in a re-badged Jaguar sedan,
The large 4.5-litre V8 Majestic Major saloons were dropped in 1965.
These were the last wholly Daimler designs. The small 2.5 litre V8
engine continued in the Mk II Jaguar body shell as the Daimler 2½-litre
V8 (1962-66) and then as the Daimler V8-250 until 1968.
> but
>eventually Daimler just became a trim level in the Jaguar lineup.
Apart from the Daimler DS420 limousine, which was introduced in 1968 as
a unique-to-Daimler body style based on a variant of the Jaguar 420G
floorpan and using the 4.2-litre Jaguar XK engine. Production of this
ceased in the late 1980s.
>
<snip>
>
>Most recently, BMW and VW competed to buy RR; the final settlement was
>that BMW got the name Rolls-Royce (in the automotive field only) and
>the factory,
VAG gets the Crewe factory and the Bentley name. BMW gets the rights to
the Rolls-Royce name after 2002, but will need to find or build a new
factory to build the cars.
>and VW got the Bentley name. VW is busily working to
>differentiate Bentley from the BMW-based Rolls-Royce cars; it seems to
>be an outlet for the wildest high-end concepts of VW and Audi.
--
Regards
Leroy Curtis
Please replace "nospam" with "baram" in my address if you wish to
reply by Email
Leroy Curtis
<ge...@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at> writes
>
>The relationship between Bentley and Rolls simply is that Rolls has owned
>Bentley for ages (since the fifties or sixties I think)
Since 1931.