American cars vs European & Japanese cars
jbug
soft and pretty bad the handling was on most of the cars. Also
americans car do not really look that nice compared to most European &
Japanese cars. American manufacturers seem to build big cars with poor
handling and a big inefficient V8 producing little horsepower for it's
size. Also americans can not build a decent sports car or supercar the
only really ones are Dodge Viper and Corvette which tested against
most european sports and supercars end up finishing last. I don't hate
all american cars but I do think that all the good american cars can
be beaten in most categories when compared to an equivilant european
car.
Emanuel Brown
When people from the US go to Europe and spout off like this, we're
called "Ugly Americans" and told this is typical boorish behavior from
those people. Yet Europeans don't hesitate to criticize the US with
the authority of cultural expertise after spending as little as a
weekend here. That always amuses me.
In your visit to America, you might have noticed that it's a
completely different *country* than those in Europe. We have different
food, culture, economy, and more specifically we have different roads
and driving laws.
US cars are built, oddly enough, for the US market, where
triple-digit top speeds are less important than lots of torque
required for acceleration up to the piddling speeds we're allowed to
drive at as quickly as possible. So our big engines focus less on
horsepower and more on torque. We're the culture that started drag
racing, and it was our magazines that started quoting 0-60 times
rather than top speed. There are reasons behind this.
Roads are wider here and we've got more parking, outside the
largest cities, than countries whose roads started at ox-cart trails
or were built by Romans, which means we can make our cars roomier to
carry more cargo and people without inconveniencing the buyer.
Gas is cheaper here, so fuel economy needn't be as good. That's why
we don't run a lot of diesel passenger cars in the US, while they're
nearly half the new cars sold in Europe.
Roads are also straighter, on average, so we never placed a strong
emphasis on handling.
Now, lots of European cars are built to appeal to the US market and
the European market, so you get the best of both worlds from those
companies (like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar, VW) - the cars
are roomier and more comfortable, but also have better handling and
braking for European roads. Stuff like the little Alfa 156, the Smart
series, and so on - they wouldn't work here, the same way the Citroen
2CV and BMW Isetta didn't.
Now, as for the aesthetics of US cars - that's too subjective to
bother discussing. In my opinion, Europe has produced as many eyesores
as we have.
Emanuel
--
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Stephen H. Westin
> I recently went to America and noticed how big the cars where and how
> soft and pretty bad the handling was on most of the cars.
Well, you're not very specific. Where were you in "America"? Assuming
that you mean the United States, the mix of vehicles in, say, Los
Angeles is very different from that in New York City, or rural
Texas. And you don't mention which models you think are "big" and
ill-handling.
> Also
> americans car do not really look that nice compared to most European &
> Japanese cars. American manufacturers seem to build big cars with poor
> handling and a big inefficient V8 producing little horsepower for it's
> size.
Actually, few U.S. cars come with V8's these days. Chrysler makes no
passenger cars with V8 engines; with GM, it's just Corvette, Camaro,
Firebird, Olds Aurora, and a few Cadillacs. Ford just has Mustang,
Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, and a couple of Lincolns. All
these are outsold by smaller sedans with 4- and 6-cylinder engines. I
believe the three best-selling passenger cars are the Honda Accord,
Ford Taurus, and Toyota Camry, each with V6 engines of 5 liters or
less.
The largest engine available in a passenger car is the 8-liter V10 in
the extremely rare Dodge Viper; next is the 5.7-liter V8 in the rather
exotic Corvette. Below that, it's 4.6, which certainly less than the
biggest European cars.
Did you visit the U.S. in 1970?
> Also americans can not build a decent sports car or supercar the
> only really ones are Dodge Viper and Corvette which tested against
> most european sports and supercars end up finishing last. I don't hate
> all american cars but I do think that all the good american cars can
> be beaten in most categories when compared to an equivilant european
> car.
Oh, sorry, my mistake. Didn't know you were trolling.
--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
Lon Stowell
Just to
show how little you know, it turns out that for the past few
years the *worst* quality records are for those european brands.
Amazingly enough, Chrysler now has a higher initial quality and
longterm rating than Mercedes.... go figure.
An intelligent european might notice that the roads are different
in the two driving locations, but I suspect that is why you
didn't notice.
kokomoN...@hotmail.com
a situation brought on by the fact that fuel is way too cheap in
America. That is also why there is no decent public transportation in
most of the US.
Given that that gas is artifically cheap and road transportation is
subsidized by non-road-use taxes, it is understandable that the US is
infested with zillions of inefficient truck-based "sport utility
vehicles" and pickup trucks.
Lon Stowell
posterity:
> The biggest problem with American cars is that most of them are trucks,
> a situation brought on by the fact that fuel is way too cheap in
> America. That is also why there is no decent public transportation in
> most of the US.
Well... that is one way to put it. It is difficult to figure out
how you could have much public transportation in places like
Montana, Nevada, Wyoming, Texas [except for the 3 main urban
areas], etc. Perhaps you could share your thoughts on how to
have public transportation in a state with less than a million
people but a land area greater than all of new england?
kokomoN...@hotmail.com
You can have buses connecting the towns and trains connecting the
cities, with frequent enough schedules to make them useful as in
Scotland, which is also sparsely populated.
Actually, though, I was referring more to the lack of public
transportation within most mid-size and large cities in the US. It
should be possible to get around without a car in a city of 50,000 like
the one where I am in Indiana, but it's not.
Majo...@mailcity.com
buy the vehicle they want. Apparently buyers want the bigger
safer vehicles if that is what they are buying. Pretty basic
concept, buyers buying what they want need and can afford, I
would suggest. The price of fuel in the US is determined by
supply a demand based on the standard set by OPEC. The only
reason it appears cheap to some other countries is they use fuel
as a hugh tax source for social programs. The federal tax paid
by vehicle owners on fuel in the US is also used to support mass
transit in the US, even though users of mass transit do not pay
the tax. As to the choice of vehicles, average people in the US
can afford to buy the bigger vehicles that apparently they want
to buy. In other counties the larger the vehicle the higher the
taxes. That forces the average buyer to buy smaller cars than
they may want to own. The
rich in Europe own big cars, as well.
mike hunt
Lon Stowell
posterity:
> Lon Stowell wrote:
>>
>> Approximately 8/27/03 18:34, kokomoN...@hotmail.com uttered for
>> posterity:
>>
>> > The biggest problem with American cars is that most of them are trucks,
>> > a situation brought on by the fact that fuel is way too cheap in
>> > America. That is also why there is no decent public transportation in
>> > most of the US.
>>
>> Well... that is one way to put it. It is difficult to figure out
>> how you could have much public transportation in places like
>> Montana, Nevada, Wyoming, Texas [except for the 3 main urban
>> areas], etc. Perhaps you could share your thoughts on how to
>> have public transportation in a state with less than a million
>> people but a land area greater than all of new england?
>
> You can have buses connecting the towns and trains connecting the
> cities, with frequent enough schedules to make them useful as in
> Scotland, which is also sparsely populated.
Ummm, not to be rude, but you really really don't know what you
are talking about. Montana alone is bigger than the entire
United Kingdom, with more highway miles as well. And the
buses connecting the towns are't worth a darn for people getting
to work every day.
> Actually, though, I was referring more to the lack of public
> transportation within most mid-size and large cities in the US. It
> should be possible to get around without a car in a city of 50,000 like
> the one where I am in Indiana, but it's not.
Walk. Or figure out how to fund it, as I can think of no public
transportation system in the USofA that has ever stood on its own
financial feet without subsidization. Once you build the bus
lines, trolley lines, etc. the number that can serve a city of
50K can easily serve a city of larger population but similar
area.
C. E. White
poorly most of them rode. Also Eurpopean cars do not look really nice
compared to most American and Japanese cars. European manufacturers seem
to build tiny, unsafe cars with horrible rides and small weak 4 cylinder
engines producing almost no power until they are reved up really high.
Also Europeans do not build decent sports cars for an affordable price.
The only only good ones cost way to much for the average car buyer. The
affordable sports cars are so slow no one in America would consider them a
performance car at all. I don't hate all European cars but I think all of
them can be beaten by an American cars of similar cost.
[yes this is satire - maybe poor satire, but satire none the less]
Ed
kokomoN...@hotmail.com
frivolously that we seem to always be fighting wars to protect sources
of cheap oil. Also, while some disagree, there is a lot of evidence
that global warming is being accelerated by the release of CO2, most of
it coming from the burning of fossil fuel.
By the way, not very many people in Europe buy 3 ton trucks for daily
transportation, even those who can afford it, and most middle income
people drive Focus/Golf size vehicles.
Majo...@mailcity.com wrote:
>
> There is no 'problem' in the US with the size of vehicles, buyers
> buy the vehicle they want. Apparently buyers want the bigger
> safer vehicles if that is what they are buying. Pretty basic
> concept, buyers buying what they want need and can afford, I
> would suggest. The price of fuel in the US is determined by
> supply a demand based on the standard set by OPEC. The only
> reason it appears cheap to some other countries is they use fuel
> as a hugh tax source for social programs. The federal tax paid
> by vehicle owners on fuel in the US is also used to support mass
> transit in the US, even though users of mass transit do not pay
> the tax. As to the choice of vehicles, average people in the US
> can afford to buy the bigger vehicles that apparently they want
> to buy. In other counties the larger the vehicle the higher the
> taxes. That forces the average buyer to buy smaller cars than
> they may want to own. The
> rich in Europe own big cars, as well.
>
> mike hunt
>
The taxes on vehicle fuel in the US are less than what it takes to
support the infrastructure that supports road travel. Road travel (and
air travel) are subsidized by general taxes in America.
BenD...@mailcity.com-
takes in much more than is spent on roads. There are billions in
the National High Trust Fund that is shown as an asset in the
federal budget. Indeed the federal government supports air
travel by buying planes for the airlines to use, but the
government retains ownership. The reason is those planes are to
be ready to use by the military in case of war. As to imported
oil. In spite of what the environuts will tell you the US need
NOT import a single barrel of oil! We have enough untapped
reserves in and around the US to more than support our needs for
many, many years. We buy foreign oil for one reason, it is much
cheaper than domestic oil. If we reduced our consumption in the
US we would actually import a GREATER percentage of the total
amount of oil we use because it is so much cheaper. Mideast oil
is profitable at less than $15 a barrel. US oil is not profitable
till over $22 a barrel. One of the reasons our production costs
are so much higher is our goofy environmental laws that add
million to overall cost of production, storing and distribution
of oil and gas. The recent price jump for gasoline is a prime
example of over regulation. I is against the law to ship gasoline
blended for one area into a different area with a different
blend. That is just pain nuts. The US goes to war over oil to
insure a worldwide supply, so that ALL of the economies of the
world do not go into recession which untimely effects the economy
of the US. Where would Japan, France and Germany get the volume
of oil they need if it were not available from the mideast? As
too so called global warming look here for a different theory on
that subject
http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/tar-2000/summary.htm ;)
mike hunt
BenD...@mailcity.com-
of owning a large vehicle is very expensive. What if
they have children, do they have to own TWO of those Focus/Golf
size vehicles? My one daughter trader her larger Camry for a
Ford Explorer when she had her fourth child. Two adults and and
three of the four kids that must be in car seats could not
LEGALLY ride in anything smaller in the state of Delaware.
Zak McGregor
<Majo...@mailcity.com>> wrote:
> Pretty basic concept, buyers buying what they want need and can afford,
> I would suggest.
Well if that were the case, why would we be infested with advertising
continually drumming into our mushy little brains exactly what we want?
Ciao
Zak
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Mike...@mailcity.com
buying everything you see advertised. I don't, and I'll bet
you don't either. I see trucks and SUV's on TV all the time but
I don't want or need one so I don't buy one. I would never even
suggest others not buy what they want, need and can afford with
their money as others are want to do.. ;)
mike hunt
Nightmare
poor handling vs makes and stuff,it's just personal thinking:-)
In my case I like mainly US made cars but my daily driver is a small
european make:-) Cause economy is a big issue too,but as your satire so well
express all is in the eyes of the wiewer:-)
"Satire is a needed thing to create creative thinking"
Regards Nightmare
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:3F4E676B...@mindspring.com...