Color of the vehicle and radar detection
Ilya
Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
Thanks
Ilya
Chuck Tomlinson
Color is irrelevant for radar detection, but apparently significant
for laser detection. C/D did a test several years ago that
correlated laser threat range to reflectivity of the car (including
color). I don't remember which issue of C/D it was.
BTW, that's one reason why I own a black Corvette (with no front
plates). I worry a bit about the silver wheels, but if I ever get
the itch, I'll put a set of black wheels on it :-)
--
Chuck Tomlinson
Craig Keener
Ilya wrote:
>
> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on
> with their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to
> target than light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What
> is the best color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any
> difference? Also, what is the maximum distance they can get a reading
> at?
No, it's not true. The only time color might make a diff is when
the cop has a hand-held gun and aims at a brightly-colored vehicle
first.
Chris Darnell
I have a dark blue Ford Tempo, and the police officer had no problem
clocking me. Color doesn't have any affect on radar. The only way that
color would have any affect is how the car contrasts with the background
when the officer is using a handheld unit. Color may affect which car an
officer prefers to go after, though. Red cars, especially sports cars,
tend
to get more attention than, say, a car with a shade of blue. However,
this is more related to the officer as a person, than the equipment that
the officer is using. As for distance, if you can see them, they've got
you.
As for repainting your car, how about white with black splotches, like a
cow?
It's camouflage if you drive through the countryside. :-)
Chris
Ilya <ibel...@runet.edu> wrote in article
<5ht6qt$n...@newslink.runet.edu>...
>
> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on
with
> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target
than
> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference?
Also,
> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ilya
>
>
Your Bud Wes
Chris Darnell (cdar...@kgo.csc.com) wrote:
: I have a dark blue Ford Tempo, and the police officer had no problem
: clocking me. Color doesn't have any affect on radar. The only way that
: color would have any affect is how the car contrasts with the background
: when the officer is using a handheld unit. Color may affect which car an
: officer prefers to go after, though. Red cars, especially sports cars,
: tend
: > Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on
: with
: > their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target
: than
: > light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
: > color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference?
: Also,
: > what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
Someone recently polled some traffic school classes concerning car color
and speeding tickets. The results showed virtually no preference for
vehicle color. White was actually the most common. However, white is also
one of the most common vehicle colors.
Here in California, most the officers that dish out speeding tickets
are CHP officers. These guys have far more training than local LEO's
when it comes to traffic, traffic safety, speed, radar, etc. In fact,
the CHP has to qualify with radar more often than most local LEO's have
to qualify with their firearms. IN other words, they are usually pretty
good at spotting speeders regardles of vehicle color.
The only time color really comes into play is when the officer is using
LASER. Or, more appropriately, LIDAR(Light Detection And Ranging as
opposed to Radio Detection and Ranging). Radio waves are reflected by
virtually everything; windows, cars, signs, etc.(depending on the wavelength
used, they can reflect off of large objects that even have no windows, or
huge gaps in them). LIDAR, in the CHP's case, uses infra red light. This
beam is directed at your car not unlike a laser gun. It can assess the
speed of a vehicle as fast as it's microprocessor can crunch the doppler
change and spew out a #. In other words, it's on and off as fast as most
officers can squeeze the trigger. Unlike Radar, LIDAR needs an ablative
surface. A surface that reflects light. This means windshields are out, as
they tend to reflect most of the light up into the sky if it doesn't
absorb it, or let it pass through. It also means it has to be aimed more
carefully at vehicles. CHP officers are taught to aim at the headlights
or grill of a vehicle as it is the most reflective part. However, I
suspect it's also so they develope better skills at aiming the LIDAR as
well, because most cars have plenty of reflective surface in the front
to give LIDAR a true reading.
OK, back to the question. Since LIDAR needs a reflective surface, color
CAN make a difference. Black, of course, absorbs a large percentage of
ambient and direct light. As much as 90%+. This can give LIDAR a problem.
However, your grill can be as much as 90% REFLECTIVE, with your headlights
being nearly 100% reflective. In order for your car to be totally invisible
to LIDAR, you would have to address these issues. With just a black car,
LIDAR will eventually range you. It may take a few more shots(that can
buy you some precious time to react to your LASER detector, BTW), but it
will eventually get you if you have the afforementioned reflective pieces.
Hope that helps ya out.
As for me, I use an escort superwide with LIDAR detection.
It's saved me once. But I haven't seen it register LIDAR yet.
WYK
Your Bud Wes
I forgot to answer the other questions you had concerning LASER/LIDAR.
Unlike most RADAR, LIDAR is weather sensitive. While some RADAR can
totally ignore rain, LIDAR can be almost useless in it. Haze, dust,
fog, anything refractive or reflective will adversly effect the accuracy
of LIDAR. Though LIDAR has much further accurate range than RADAR has, it
also suffers more from haze and dust at those ranges, as well.
It doesn't matter what the range of LIDAR is if the officer
can't see you until you are within 1/2 or 1/4 mile because he has to
aim it at you directly. The good thing is it usually takes a couple
shots to get a good reading. This will flood the whole area in it's
direct path with pulses of Lidar. In some cases, I wouldn't be suprised
if your RADAR detector sensed LIDAR long before you even see the officer.
That's IF the officer suspected someone ahead of you for speeding and
was trying to get a reading. Otherwise, you'd have a few short seconds
to react to your radar at best.
In CA it is legal to have and use radar detectors. If any officer asks
you why you have it, you need not answer. I would say, "Because it's
legal to own and use, Officer". If he pursues it further, I'd ask the
officer why he pulled me over. Always ask to see the radar and the
reading it has. This is admissable in court. Never respond to a question
like, "How fast were you going?". This means the officer wants you to
testify against yourself. Don't do it. Don't respond with "I don't know",
either, as he will state you weren't aware of your speed in court. If
you must answer, answer with something to the effect of,
"My speedometer indicated <insert a number below the maximum speed
limit here>, Officer. Is there a problem?"
It may work, it might not. However, there's no need to help the officer,
or to testify against yourself.
Don't forget to verify the radar reading with the officer as you view
it, too. Just an added measure of safety.
WYK
BTW, I get some of my info about the CHP and other LEO's through several
buds who are officers. They are just like me and you, really. Only, unlike
you and me, they get in car chases, hit and kicked, screamed and yelled
at, sometimes spit upon, treated like dirt basically, oh, and shot at.
LEO's deal with societies least favorable citizens on a daily/nightly
basis. All the while trying to appear civil and in control. I'm not
saying this is any excuse for them to misbehave. What I am saying is that
for the hell they go through to keep the peace, they get little respect.
Behind the badges and uniforms, all my buds are normal human beings.
Geoff Miller
toml...@ix.netcom.com (Chuck Tomlinson) writes:
> BTW, that's one reason why I own a black Corvette (with no front
> plates).
I see very few Corvettes with front license plates -- at least the
1984 and later models. I doubt that it has anything to do with
laser or radar detecion, though; I strongly suspect that it's
simply because Corvette owners think their cars look cooler with
that blanking panel in place where the front plate should be.
Not that it's any skin off my ass or anything, but I've long
wondered how Corvette owners get away with this. Anyone else,
driving any other type of car, would probably land a ticket
within a week if they made it a habit to drive around with just
their rear license plate. But the Corvette guys seem to be
immune.
Geoff
--
"There's nothing inherently anti-common-sense about being female."
-- Ayse Sercan
Patrick Chan
Chuck Tomlinson (toml...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: BTW, that's one reason why I own a black Corvette (with no front
: plates). I worry a bit about the silver wheels, but if I ever get
: the itch, I'll put a set of black wheels on it :-)
I'm just waiting for someone to adapt stealth technology for their car...
you know... absorbtive panels... every surface angled to disperse any
radar/laser... etc etc.. ;-)
-pc
Young Song
In article <geoffmE8...@netcom.com>, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
=Not that it's any skin off my ass or anything, but I've long
=wondered how Corvette owners get away with this. Anyone else,
=driving any other type of car, would probably land a ticket
=within a week if they made it a habit to drive around with just
=their rear license plate. But the Corvette guys seem to be
=immune.
I've been driving around with front license plate removed and mount plugs (to
make the license plate screw holes disappear and make things look flush with
the front bumper) and I haven't had any problems. I think it's because
whenever I do get pulled over, cops approach from the rear and stop at the
driver side or passenger side window. I think that most police officers do
not go to the front of the car because it is a vulnerable place to be in if
the driver has a gun or intends to run over a cop with his vehicle. As a
result, they probably don't put themselves in a position to inspect for this
violation very often unless they saw it before pulling you over.
I know a lot of non-Vette drivers who don't have front plates either but
haven't gotten in trouble for it. I figure it is something people get in
trouble for but it's probably a pretty low priority item on most cops'
agendas.
Stephan Mynarkiewicz
Obviously depends partly on whether the state the car is registered gives
out two license plates (PA doesn't).
Chuck Tomlinson
geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
>
>I see very few Corvettes with front license plates -- at least the
>simply because Corvette owners think their cars look cooler with
>that blanking panel in place where the front plate should be.
They *do* look cooler/better without the front plate, but I live in
a state that does not require (or provide) a front plate.
--
Chuck Tomlinson
'94 lidar-resistant Vette (Blk/Blk)
Cyberpunk
> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
Hmm, ive heard something similar, ive heard those glitter (i forget the
actual name for this) type paint jobs make it hard for u to get caught
via radar.
Kin T Tam
In article <5htrvf$9...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>,
Chuck Tomlinson <toml...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>ibel...@runet.edu (Ilya) wrote:
>>
>> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
>> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
>> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
>> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
>> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
>
>plates). I worry a bit about the silver wheels, but if I ever get
>the itch, I'll put a set of black wheels on it :-)
>Chuck Tomlinson
Na, don't need to worrie about that too much, they cant use laser from
the side also, just like radar. Front and back only.
--
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Cyberpunk
> BTW, that's one reason why I own a black Corvette (with no front
> plates). I worry a bit about the silver wheels, but if I ever get
> the itch, I'll put a set of black wheels on it :-)
Wouldnt be very pretty but you could just put some black sut or whatever
on the wheels..
:-)
Alex Leavens
Your Bud Wes wrote:
>
<snip>
> huge gaps in them). LIDAR, in the CHP's case, uses infra red light. This
> beam is directed at your car not unlike a laser gun. It can assess the
> speed of a vehicle as fast as it's microprocessor can crunch the doppler
> change and spew out a #. In other words, it's on and off as fast as most
> officers can squeeze the trigger.
LIDAR (at least some LIDAR guns) do NOT use Doppler shift--they use
distance
changes--this makes them prone to errors if the gun is shifted (hey,
it's
a hand-held unit, right? Why on earth would it move?? :-)
--
--alex alea...@mindspring.com
ShadowCat Technologies - Custom Windows Software
"Cool Toys for Cool Minds" - Custom Multimedia
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes
your time, and annoys the pig." --Samuel Clemens
fizz
In article <5ht6qt$n...@newslink.runet.edu>, ibel...@runet.edu (Ilya) says:
>
>
> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
>
>
> Ilya
>
Dull black is great against laser equip`t (LIDAR) as dull bkack
absorbs the beam and reflects very little back to source. You can see
this by aiming one of those hand held laser pointers (670NM) at a light
surface and then a dull black one. Lidar uses the infrared part of the
spectrum . This may present an absortion problem-I don`t know.
We don`t see the beam as we see only 400 to 700 nanometers unless
we use special equip`t. If it`s foggy, your safe unless radar is in use.
LEE
Cyberpunk
> I'm just waiting for someone to adapt stealth technology for their car...
> you know... absorbtive panels... every surface angled to disperse any
> radar/laser... etc etc.. ;-)
As far as radar invisibility (not sure about laser) ive seen where they
had cars made up of a special metal or something that made the car
invisible to certain radar. The story was pretty old tho, so advancement
in radar may have overcome this.
Adam Meltzer
Young Song (ys...@slip.net) wrote:
: In article <geoffmE8...@netcom.com>, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
: the front bumper) and I haven't had any problems. I think it's because
: driver side or passenger side window. I think that most police officers do
: not go to the front of the car because it is a vulnerable place to be in if
: the driver has a gun or intends to run over a cop with his vehicle. As a
: result, they probably don't put themselves in a position to inspect for this
: violation very often unless they saw it before pulling you over.
Cops ususally don't assign tickets for no front licence plates -- it's usually
the meter maids who do it when you're parked.
One of my friends was parked legally, with plenty of time on the meter but got
ticketd for no front licence plate.
--
___
))_) ___ _ _ __ ___ ___ __ : ram...@dopeman.com
((`\ ((_( ((`1( ((_)((_( ((_( ((' : http://www.dopeman.com
)) ._)) .
.
e n z c n t r @ q b c r z n a . p b z*r a m p a g e @ d o p e m a n . c o m
Brian Gordon
In article <5i2e2o$gcb$1...@owl.slip.net>, Young Song <ys...@slip.net> wrote:
>In article <geoffmE8...@netcom.com>, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
>
>=wondered how Corvette owners get away with this. Anyone else,
>=driving any other type of car, would probably land a ticket
>=within a week if they made it a habit to drive around with just
>=their rear license plate. But the Corvette guys seem to be
>=immune.
>
>I've been driving around with front license plate removed and mount plugs (to
>make the license plate screw holes disappear and make things look flush with
>whenever I do get pulled over, cops approach from the rear and stop at the
>driver side or passenger side window. I think that most police officers do
>not go to the front of the car because it is a vulnerable place to be in if
>the driver has a gun or intends to run over a cop with his vehicle. As a
>result, they probably don't put themselves in a position to inspect for this
>violation very often unless they saw it before pulling you over.
>
>haven't gotten in trouble for it. I figure it is something people get in
>trouble for but it's probably a pretty low priority item on most cops'
>agendas.
It depends a lot on where you are. Where they use photo RADAR, they like to
have the plate number in both the front and rear shots. Where they use red
light runner cameras, they only photograph the front. In these areas, like
Campbell, CA and SF, CA, you are much more likely to get a missing front plate
ticket than elsewhere. In SF, for example, they are giving missing front plate
tickets to parked cars ...
--
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+ AOL: BGordon CompuServe: 70243,3012 +
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Shane Pearson
Ilya wrote:
>
> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ilya
>
Dear Ilya,
None of that will help you that much if the officer is running radar at
night.
Chuck Tomlinson
tamx...@garnet.tc.umn.edu (Kin T Tam) wrote:
>Chuck Tomlinson <toml...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>BTW, that's one reason why I own a black Corvette (with no front
>>plates). I worry a bit about the silver wheels, but if I ever get
>>the itch, I'll put a set of black wheels on it :-)
>
>the side also, just like radar. Front and back only.
They can get readings from lasers at small angles, and my car's
wheels have a shiny silver lip that is clearly visible at almost any
angle except directly ahead. Don't know how much it matters though.
--
Chuck Tomlinson
Karl Fengler
Adam Meltzer wrote:
> Cops ususally don't assign tickets for no front licence plates
> -- it's usually the meter maids who do it when you're parked.
The meter maids here don't have that power. The meters
fall under a city ordanance.
> One of my friends was parked legally, with plenty of time on
> the meter but got ticketd for no front licence plate.
The two parking tickets I've had most recently haven't
netted me anything other than a $4 parking violation.
I've been running with out a front plate since 94.
--
-Karl Fengler---------------- BRONCO*351 - FXDWG -
---------------------- ka...@hpb18162.boi.hp.com -
-!! You Have Strayed Upon The Motorway To HELL !!-
C.R. Krieger
On Wed, 02 Apr 1997 14:54:00 GMT, toml...@ix.netcom.com (Chuck
Tomlinson) wrote:
>ibel...@runet.edu (Ilya) wrote:
>>
>> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
>> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
>> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
>> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
>> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
Max distance depends on the vehicle's 'radar profile'. For most cars,
it's 1/2-3/4 mile. For very small, light, narrow cars, it can be as
little as 1/4 mile. Concealed headlights helps (Corvettes: +1), but
big chunks of metal like radiators and engines hurts (Corvettes: -1).
A semi tractor can be 'read' at 1 1/2 miles or more.
In any event, for a straight line reading, a good detector will pick
up the signal nearly TWICE as far away as the gun can 'read' your
speed. The reason is simple: the signal has to get TO your car and
be reflected all the way BACK to the source to produce a reading. It
only has to get TO your detector to be detected.
>
>Color is irrelevant for radar detection, but apparently significant
>for laser detection. C/D did a test several years ago that
>correlated laser threat range to reflectivity of the car (including
>color). I don't remember which issue of C/D it was.
>
>BTW, that's one reason why I own a black Corvette (with no front
>plates). I worry a bit about the silver wheels, but if I ever get
>the itch, I'll put a set of black wheels on it :-)
I wouldn't worry too much about the wheels. But you might want to
take some 600 grit paper to all those glossy frontal surfaces. =8^)
C.R. Krieger
"Ignore 'em, m'dear; they're beneath your dignity." - W.C. Fields
Remove "SPAM" from e-mail address.
Chuck Tomlinson
warp...@lakefield.net (C.R. Krieger) wrote:
>toml...@ix.netcom.com (Chuck Tomlinson) wrote:
>
>Max distance depends on the vehicle's 'radar profile'. For most cars,
>it's 1/2-3/4 mile. For very small, light, narrow cars, it can be as
>little as 1/4 mile. Concealed headlights helps (Corvettes: +1), but
>big chunks of metal like radiators and engines hurts (Corvettes: -1).
>A semi tractor can be 'read' at 1 1/2 miles or more.
I don't know if later Vettes earn a full -1 for metal pieces. The
engine is pretty well shielded by the radiator and metal air filter
shroud. The shroud is ahead of the radiator, and laid back at a 45
deg angle. The radiator is laid back at about 23 degrees. Most of
the radar that hits these pieces will be forwarded to E.T.
Even the headlight reflectors face backwards when they're retracted.
The face of the bumper beam seems to be the only major piece of
vertical metal exposed to the beam. I should bolt a 45 deg sheet
metal deflector to the bumper beam, and wave to the cops when I'm
about 100 feet away... or not... :-)
>In any event, for a straight line reading, a good detector will pick
>up the signal nearly TWICE as far away as the gun can 'read' your
>speed. The reason is simple: the signal has to get TO your car and
>be reflected all the way BACK to the source to produce a reading. It
>only has to get TO your detector to be detected.
Gotta love that physics.
>I wouldn't worry too much about the wheels. But you might want to
>take some 600 grit paper to all those glossy frontal surfaces. =8^)
Yeah, I'll get right on it... :-)
--
Chuck Tomlinson
Robert
> > their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> > light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> > color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> > what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
> >
> >
> > Ilya
> >
> Dull black is great against laser equip`t (LIDAR) as dull bkack
> absorbs the beam and reflects very little back to source. You can see
> this by aiming one of those hand held laser pointers (670NM) at a light
> surface and then a dull black one. Lidar uses the infrared part of the
> spectrum . This may present an absortion problem-I don`t know.
> We don`t see the beam as we see only 400 to 700 nanometers unless
> we use special equip`t. If it`s foggy, your safe unless radar is in use.
> LEE
The color of the car doesn't matter as much as the shape of the car.
Corvettes
have a front end shape that naturally disperses RF (X, K, KA, Stalker
radar)
energy because of the angles used on the newer ones ('84-up). I was told
that
there is one year of 'vette that can't be seen by any RF type radar, I
don't
know which though. The Police Association threw a fit at Chevy for it
and
Chevy redesigned the front end.
As for the laser speed guns, the duller the color the better along with
poor
atmospheric conditions can make a car virtually undetectable. Though in
good
weather, I have been told laser guns are good for as far as the operator
can see
and the dispersion is very minimal, which means if he aims it at you,
your
toast before you can think about touching your brakes.
Robert
Marc Harbison
I agree with the one guy who said, "it depends a lot on where you are".
I, for example, am from North Carolina. Here the DMV only issues one
license plate so guess which end of the car doesn't get one. Plus this is
a rather nit picky regulation. I was a resident of Virgina for quite a few
years and only had one plate on my car and was issued two. I was pulled
over once for not having a plate on my front end but ended up talking
myself out of a ticket. Lucky I guess!
Brian Gordon <bri...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<briangE8...@netcom.com>...
Geoff Miller
ys...@slip.net (Young Song) writes:
> I think that most police officers do not go to the front of
> the car because it is a vulnerable place to be in if the
> driver has a gun or intends to run over a cop with his vehicle.
Well, the general scenario that I had in mind was more along the
lines of the cop's seeing the front of the car just by chance --
say, while driving in the opposite direction, or maybe while
crossing the parking lot of a doughnut shop -- and then electing
to pursue <heh> the issue. It never occurred to me that a cop
would do a complete walk-around in connection with a traffic stop
for an unrelated reason.
Geoff
--
"Was that directed to me personally or women with big ears and
flat heads in general?" -- Anne <rams...@swbell.net>
Geoff Miller
"Stephan Mynarkiewicz" <ste...@iw1.net> writes:
> Obviously depends partly on whether the state the car is
> registered gives out two license plates (PA doesn't).
No shit?
Obviously, my question only applied to states that _do_ give
out two license plates, Peter Pedant.
"Read, think, (maybe) post. Do not alter this sequence."
Steve Cutchen
std...@unx1.shsu.edu (William S. Rowell) wrote:
: IMO, a dark blue car is almost invisible to police, particularly
: if it's a "family" car like a Camry or something along those
: lines...
A pebble-beige Maxima is pretty good, too. With a better drivetrain then
the Camry. My '96 SE 5sp with Eibach springs is a seriously quick car.
And a great Q-ship.
If you want to drive quickly, choose the right equipment.
--------
Steve Cutchen O- Safety Fast
scut...@phoenix.net Enjoy the Ride
David Post
Ilya (ibel...@runet.edu) wrote:
> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
No:Wrong:No:None:No:Same as always
Stealth technology is more than a paint job.
LIDAR is a different story, though.
David Post po...@fc.hp.com These opinions are mine and mine alone.
Marc
>: IMO, a dark blue car is almost invisible to police, particularly
>: if it's a "family" car like a Camry or something along those
>: lines...
>A pebble-beige Maxima is pretty good, too. With a better drivetrain then
>the Camry. My '96 SE 5sp with Eibach springs is a seriously quick car.
>And a great Q-ship.
>If you want to drive quickly, choose the right equipment.
I think the best big Q-ship is the appropriately named Q45. The Chevy
Caprice LT1 is a close second. A friend has an Impala, and it is
seriously fast (for something that big), but the Impala loses
Q-shipness by looking fast.
Marc
Jack Mott
Shane Pearson wrote:
>
> Ilya wrote:
> >
> > Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
> > their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> > light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> > color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> > what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
> >
> >
> > Ilya
> >
>
The color of the car that a human sees reveals the paints properties
only on the visible spectrum of light. The radar isnt part of that
spectrum. You can assume that maybe a black car will absorb radar
pretty well since it absorbs everything on the visible spectrum, but you
may be totally wrong. depends on the paint. At the same time a white
car might absorb radar totally.
James Driscoll Jr
As far as I've heard
If it's still steel or Aluminum.
It's picked up by new radar
I think you need Carbon fibres instead of metal
F117A Fighter Jet Is Black but Not painted at all......
Aardwolf
> > their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
> > light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
> > color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
> > what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ilya
> >
> absorbs the beam and reflects very little back to source. You can see
> this by aiming one of those hand held laser pointers (670NM) at a light
> surface and then a dull black one. Lidar uses the infrared part of the
> spectrum . This may present an absortion problem-I don`t know.
> We don`t see the beam as we see only 400 to 700 nanometers unless
> we use special equip`t. If it`s foggy, your safe unless radar is in use.
> LEE
Just rig up a fine aerosol-spray of water either to the front or rear of
your car. This will disperse the laser and render it ineffective.
Aardwolf.
Ilya
wa...@lakefield.net (C.R. Krieger) said:
|>> Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
|>> their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
|>> light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
|>> color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
|>> what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
|
|it's 1/2-3/4 mile. For very small, light, narrow cars, it can be as
|little as 1/4 mile. Concealed headlights helps (Corvettes: +1), but
|big chunks of metal like radiators and engines hurts (Corvettes: -1).
|A semi tractor can be 'read' at 1 1/2 miles or more.
I see, but just because they can get a reading at 0.5-0.75 miles, it does
not mean they know which car it is, does it? Don't they actually have to
see the vehicle to know which one it is?
|In any event, for a straight line reading, a good detector will pick
|up the signal nearly TWICE as far away as the gun can 'read' your
|speed. The reason is simple: the signal has to get TO your car and
|be reflected all the way BACK to the source to produce a reading. It
|only has to get TO your detector to be detected.
Oh, that is interesting, but what if they turn the radar on only when the
car is so close it does not have time to slow down? As far as I
understand, cops do not keep the thing turned on all the time, right?
Thanks
Ilya
Jeffrey Potoff
ROTFL ! Just how far in front of your car do you think that
'aerosol-spray of water' is going to get when you're moving at
100 mph ?
Jeff
d...@triode.net.au
Young Song <ys...@slip.net> wrote:
> In article <geoffmE8...@netcom.com>, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller)
> wrote:
>
> I've been driving around with front license plate removed and mount
> plugs (to make the license plate screw holes disappear and make things
> look flush with the front bumper) and I haven't had any problems. I think
> it's because whenever I do get pulled over, cops approach from the rear
> and stop at the driver side or passenger side window. I think that most
> police officers do not go to the front of the car because it is a
> vulnerable place to be in if the driver has a gun or intends to run over a
> cop with his vehicle. As a result, they probably don't put themselves in
> a position to inspect for this violation very often unless they saw it
> before pulling you over.
>
> I know a lot of non-Vette drivers who don't have front plates either but
> haven't gotten in trouble for it. I figure it is something people get in
> trouble for but it's probably a pretty low priority item on most cops'
> agendas.
Here in down under it's against the law not havingthe front number
plate. We can be fined A$2000 after first warning. :( Also recently
state government passed so called anti-hoon law that gives coppers the
power to impound the vehicle if the vehicle was doing burnout or donuts
or wheelies. WIWW :(
dj
--
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
d...@biscut.com
What is a "Hoon".. We in the northern hemisphere don't understand.
Jeff
d...@triode.net.au wrote in article
<199704101...@dialup-0.triode.net.au>...
Vogt Family
Ilya wrote:
> |In any event, for a straight line reading, a good detector will pick
> |up the signal nearly TWICE as far away as the gun can 'read' your
> |speed. The reason is simple: the signal has to get TO your car and
> |be reflected all the way BACK to the source to produce a reading. It
> |only has to get TO your detector to be detected.
I am not sure if this point is entirely true, but it sounds reasonable.
The detector only has to determine if the signal is there, and the
recieving part of the radar actually has to get a usable signal out of
it.
> Oh, that is interesting, but what if they turn the radar on only when the
> car is so close it does not have time to slow down? As far as I
> understand, cops do not keep the thing turned on all the time, right?
This is true, so you want your detector to go off while he's nailing
other people. Cops don't generally hang around quiet roads nailing
people as they go by, although sometimes they do.
Birken T. Vogt - KE6DLT
Steve Cutchen
Jeffrey Potoff <jpo...@latoso.cheme.cornell.edu> wrote:
: Aardwolf wrote:
: >
: > fizz wrote:
: > >
I mounted a supercharger drive system in front of the vee of my
non-supercoupe TBird. I use it to drive a centrifugal pump/magnetic clutch
mounted behind it in the vee which supplies a really nice half-conical
water spray from the top center of my front grill. It sprays down in front
of the car. I've got it aimed so that it provides good coverage to the
front plate and the headlights, which, of course, are the primary targets
of lidar. The pump puts out a low volume, but over 230 psig, which allows
me to generate protective water spray even at high speeds. What really
makes the whole thing work is the water recirculation system. I make use
of a modified plastic dust pan under the radiator to collect the water as
it is sucked back in through the grill. I've had to baffle around the
radiator a bit, but I get improved heat transfer because of the water that
drips down the radiator. So the car does not overheat at all. I use a
small (5 gal) make up tank in the trunk to account for what I think is
primarily evaporative losses. I don't run it all the time, just when I
feel vulnerable to lidar. I refill it when I get gas, using the water
supply at the gas station that is meant for radiator use.
--------
Steve Cutchen O- If we always do what we've always done,
scut...@phoenix.net we'll always get what we've always got...
Richard Paul Groome
Ilya (ibel...@runet.edu) wrote:
: Does the color of the vehicle matter when cops are trying to lock on with
: their radar? I heard that darker color vehicles are harder to target than
: light colored vehicles. Is that true, and if so, why? What is the best
: color for that purpose? Will repainting a car make any difference? Also,
: what is the maximum distance they can get a reading at?
: Thanks
: Ilya
Color doesn't matter at all, radar will reflect of any solid object. For
lidar darker colors do a better job as they reflect less of the beam. The
only way the paint would affect radar is if you got one of these military
paints, like on the Stealth Bombmer.
Richard
BS
On 10 Apr 1997 17:58:41 GMT, "AntiSpa...@mcimail.com"
<d...@biscut.com> is accused of saying:
>What is a "Hoon".. We in the northern hemisphere don't understand.
>
>Jeff
A hooligan, roughneck, or in Lloydspeak, a scoundel. ;)
>d...@triode.net.au wrote in article
><199704101...@dialup-0.triode.net.au>...
>> Here in down under it's against the law not havingthe front number
>> plate. We can be fined A$2000 after first warning. :( Also recently
>> state government passed so called anti-hoon law that gives coppers the
>> power to impound the vehicle if the vehicle was doing burnout or donuts
>> or wheelies. WIWW :(
>
Brandon
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy"
until you can find a rock.
(remove NOSPAM to e-mail)
P.J. Hartman
d...@triode.net.au wrote:
>Here in down under it's against the law not havingthe front number
>plate. We can be fined A$2000 after first warning.
In my home state one must display a front plate also. Funny thing,
though, is there is no legislation which provides for any fine! I've
got a small collection (just two) of citations for no front plate.
Haven't worried about it for some time.
--
P.J. Hartman pjh{at}radiks{dot}net MIND THE GAP
41°18'07"N 95°53'37"W
Any errors in fact, tact, or spelling are transmission errors.
Note: E-mail address has bogus info. Modify to reply.
Walter Eric Johnson
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 00:15:09 GMT, our good friend, Your Bud Wes (w...@netcom.com), wrote:
: ... This
: beam is directed at your car not unlike a laser gun. It can assess the
: speed of a vehicle as fast as it's microprocessor can crunch the doppler
: change and spew out a #. In other words, it's on and off as fast as most
: officers can squeeze the trigger.
I strongly suspect you are jumping to conclusions about the methods
used by by lidar. While it is not difficult to see a doppler shift
in the reflected laser beam and while it is theoretically possible
to measure that shift, in practice it is going to be extremely
difficult and will require a much faster sampling rate by the
equipment.
At one time, we were doing some experiements with lasers and tried
to measure the doppler shift. It was clear that the doppler shift
could easily be measured for speeds up to one or two miles per hour.
Above some small speed the fastest sampling speeds we could use were
insufficient to provide usable data.
When the first police lidar devices were used, we were wondering on
what principles they worked and soon found out it was "time of flight".
They would range the vehicle at a known interval by emitting a signal
and measuring the time for it to return. Thus, they would know how
far away the vehicle is at the time. With two readings, it is a
simple calculation to determine the speed. This is much easier than
sampling the beam to measure the doppler shift.
A few years ago, someone published an article in "The Journal of
Irreproducible Results" about using the doppler shift from a laser
beam to measure the speed of a snail. What was not very widely
known was the problems encountered at higher, but still tiny, speeds.
If you wish to measure the speed of a snail, measuring the doppler
shift on a radar beam will give you an extremely accurate measurement.
It would be interesting to know if the electronics available now can
sample the beam fast enough to use the doppler shift instead of
time of flight.
Eric Johnson
Robert Mounce
>> I've been driving around with front license plate removed and mount
>> plugs (to make the license plate screw holes disappear and make things
>> look flush with the front bumper) and I haven't had any problems.
>Here in down under it's against the law not having the front number
>plate. We can be fined A$2000 after first warning.
Presumably that is a national law in Australia. Here in the States
it is up to each state. There is no national law. In some states
you can't even get front plates. When seen from the front
most police just assume you're from a no-front-plate state.
Cheers,
Robert
Surendar Jeyadev
In article <334D5E...@oro.net>, Vogt Family <vo...@oro.net> wrote:
>Ilya wrote:
>> |In any event, for a straight line reading, a good detector will pick
>> |up the signal nearly TWICE as far away as the gun can 'read' your
>> |speed. The reason is simple: the signal has to get TO your car and
>> |be reflected all the way BACK to the source to produce a reading. It
>> |only has to get TO your detector to be detected.
>
>I am not sure if this point is entirely true, but it sounds reasonable.
>The detector only has to determine if the signal is there, and the
>recieving part of the radar actually has to get a usable signal out of
>it.
Good point and one that an elementary knowledge of the real world
should have made clear. Detection of signals is a bit harder as the
detector may have to scan a range of frequencies while the transmitter
has to look out for echoes only in a very narrow band about one specific
frequency -- its own. Thus it can operate at a higher Q factor
than the receiver and hence be more sensitive.
This, of course, does not matter when it is known that
the transmitters operate at a few specific frequencies as the
detector can be made to look for only those frequencies. But if
police radar is equipped to make it possible for the cop to select
a frequency within a wide band, then detectors will have to sacrifice
sensitivity for wide band coverage.
>> Oh, that is interesting, but what if they turn the radar on only when the
>> car is so close it does not have time to slow down? As far as I
>> understand, cops do not keep the thing turned on all the time, right?
>
>This is true, so you want your detector to go off while he's nailing
>other people. Cops don't generally hang around quiet roads nailing
>people as they go by, although sometimes they do.
Hmmmmm! They do, they do. In fact, quite roads as where they have
better chance of a kill -- no motorists going the other way flashing
their lights to warn you, no CB warnings, .........
--
Surendar Jeyadev jey...@wrc.xerox.com
Benjamin Ross Alsup
Robert wrote:
> Dull black is great against laser equip`t (LIDAR) as dull bkack
> absorbs the beam and reflects very little back to source. You can
see
> this by aiming one of those hand held laser pointers (670NM) at a
light
> surface and then a dull black one. Lidar uses the infrared part of
the
> spectrum . This may present an absortion problem-I don`t know.
> We don`t see the beam as we see only 400 to 700 nanometers unless
> we use special equip`t. If it`s foggy, your safe unless radar is
in use.
> LEE
The color of the car doesn't matter as much as the shape of the car.
Robert
The new May '97 C/D has a very interesting article about LIDAR
(specifically the Laser Technology, Inc. LTI 20-20 AKA: GEICO gun).
Anyone ever receiving a citation by a laser-toting patrolman might want
to take a look. A New Jersey judge just ruled laser readings by this
device inadmissable as evidence.
Ben Alsup
Jim Rivera
See the article in the latest (May) Car & Driver issue about lidar. To
summarize, a motorist in NJ, with some strong legal assistance, was able
to convince a court that the use of lidar was not scientifically
rigorous enough to constitute valid evidence. The main points were that
the beam was too wide (actually there are three "hot spots", not one,
spread horizontally) and that the measuring method used was incorrect,
as it involved repeated distance measurements, not instantaneous Doppler
shift readings. There was an additional issue of whether the average
person is physically able to hold the gun steady enough for a valid
reading. In my opinion this is a correct adn definitive ruling.
The bad news is that the states will try like hell to weasel out of
this situation (can you spell $$ revenue) so it may be a while before
this decision spreads as it deserves to.
JR
Brian Gordon
In article <335307...@acs.tamu.edu>,
Benjamin Ross Alsup <bra...@acs.tamu.edu> wrote:
> [...]
> Corvettes
> have a front end shape that naturally disperses RF (X, K, KA,
> Stalker
> radar)
> energy because of the angles used on the newer ones ('84-up). I was
> told
> that
> there is one year of 'vette that can't be seen by any RF type radar,
> I
> don't
> know which though. The Police Association threw a fit at Chevy for
> it
> and
> Chevy redesigned the front end.
Was this misposted? Was it intended for alr.conspiracy, or at least
alt.folklore.urban :-)
--
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Benjamin Ross Alsup
I didn't write all of that nonsense about the front ends of Corvettes or
any of that "radar-absorbing" paint stuff. I guess I messed up editing
the reply. I don't think that Chevrolet and Lockheed are sharing too
many trade secrets concering radar absorption and deflection. I just
hate to seem like an idiot...