Digifant...why do they hate you?
Luke V
injection system?
Conrad
Luke V wrote in message <35F48942...@netrevolution.com>...
Alden Cates
wrote:
How about compared to Motronic (as used in the Corrado SLC/VR6)? The
Corrado G60 uses Digifant, though it also has a Mass Air flow type
sensor...
-alden
--
'90 Pearl Green Metallic Corrado G60 w/black | C:\ONGRTLNS.W98
leather, ABS, P-Chip, AT exhaust, AT ISV boost| Windows '98 = Mac '86
check valve,EuroLghts, Borbet Type C wheels; | Pentium or PowerPC?
CCA Member #201 http://www.hooked.net/~acates | DO THE MATH!
Alden Cates
(Mk1_GTi) wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:47:51 -0700, aca...@hooked.net (Alden Cates)
> wrote:
>
> >How about compared to Motronic (as used in the Corrado SLC/VR6)? The
> >Corrado G60 uses Digifant, though it also has a Mass Air flow type
> >sensor...
> >
> >-alden
>
> Hi Alden,
>
> I thought the G60 uses a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) type
> sensor.....
>
> And digifant II (Late-A2 Golf, Jetta) uses the MAF (Mass Air Flow)
> sensor....
>
> Matt
Oooops! You are correct Matt. The G60 does indeed have a MAP sensor and
not a MAF. I think I've read too many posts about peoples problems with
the MAF and now it's permanently etched in my mind :)
From a Corrado list post:
> They are probably refering to a MAP sensor. A MAP (manifold absolute
> pressure) sensor converts pressure to voltage. They are made by Motorola
> and others, usually in 1 bar (NA), 2 bar (SC) and 3 bar (TC) ranges. The
> Digifant ECU on G-60s has an internal MAP, GM MAPs are usually external.
Mk1_GTi
wrote:
>In article <6t23v8$70j$1...@news.megsinet.net>, "Conrad" <vw...@megsinet.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Modifications to the digifant system are very limited.
>>
>> Luke V wrote in message <35F48942...@netrevolution.com>...
>> >Why does everyone whines about Digifant? What are the problems with that
>> >injection system?
>> >
>
>How about compared to Motronic (as used in the Corrado SLC/VR6)? The
>Corrado G60 uses Digifant, though it also has a Mass Air flow type
>sensor...
>
>-alden
Hi Alden,
I thought the G60 uses a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) type
sensor.....
And digifant II (Late-A2 Golf, Jetta) uses the MAF (Mass Air Flow)
sensor....
Matt
'80 MkI Golf GTi
'86 MkII Golf GTi
'90 Corrado G60 (For Sale)
'92 MkII Golf GTi 16V
GTICHAD
uses a pair of processors instead of a simple chip. It is slow and it is nearly
impossible to make it performance oriented. Easiest performance gain= Pull the
black cover off the air flow meter using a razor blade, Their is a spring a
clip and a gear. MARK THE CLIP/GEAR POSITION- CAREFULLY pull the clip loose
while holding the gear and loosen the spring tension 3 notches. put silicone on
the cover and reinstall.
Daniel Watson
the fuel system is I had to replace the inner-tank fuel pump at 175,000
miles. I've heard of some people having problems with the "Computer"
terminals...apparently fixed by replacing them with gold ones, but so far
(200,000 miles) I haven't had a problem with mine.
In fact I've heard quite the opposite, that the CIS systems are more
troublesome as they are a *very* high pressure system, which apparently
causes some problems.
I also had to replace the entire fuel tank at about 190,000 miles, but that
was due to a 7 foot piece of aluminum electrical conduit pole that shot
through my gas tank while doing about 75mph on LBJ Frwy.....It's a long
story, don't ask:-)
Ken Lawton
>Why does everyone whines about Digifant? What are the problems with that
>injection system?
>
The big problem with North American un-blown Digifant cars is throttle
response. Unlike CIS, Digifant copes poorly with sudden throttle
inputs from idle up to about 2000 RPM. The result is treason in the
engine room just at that delicate balance of throttle tip-in and
clutch engagement. Nail the throttle and dump the clutch and the
Digifant car will burn axle-tramping rubber. But try to
inconspicuously torque away from a stop light and Digifant will have
your passengers' heads bobbing as it momentarily hesitates, then gets
on with it.
Digifant cars are a challenge to drive smoothly at low speed,
especially for novices. Relatively large throttle openings and clutch
slippage are the norm through a standing start. An uphill grade adds
to the entertainment. An overzealous snap to second gear can produce a
jolt in the drivetrain that will have your passengers thinking of
whiplash.
Digifant idiosyncracies can be largely mitigated with no special
tools. Start with standard inspection and replacement as necessary of
plugs, wires, distributor cap, fuel and air filters. The biggest
mistake is to tune Digifant to CIS or CIS-E specifications. They are
different. For Digifant, with the temperature sensor disconnected,
timing should be set at 6 degrees BTDC at ~2250 RPM (not at idle like
CIS). Idle speed should be ~800 RPM, not 1000. Rolling the engine
speed through 3000 RPM three times between steps will clear the
control unit memory and avoid confusion. The factory manual gives
precise tuning procedures.
Electrical connections should be clean and well fitting, especially
grounds. Vacuum hoses and intake boot should be inspected for air
leaks. Idle stabilizer, PCV valve and throttle body should be shiny
clean.
Digifant forces the driver to learn the nuances of the
engine-clutch-transmission interface. Even in a well-sorted Digifant
car, every step-off should be regarded as a challenge to smooth
technique, every low-speed gear change an opportunity for finesse,
because these cars do have their rewards. Digifant cars get impressive
gas mileage, and true to their design, are as good as any at high
speed.
Hope this helps the Digifanti...
Ken Lawton
Tim Wohlford
>injection system?
>
1. When it came out no body knew how to work on it... and I've got some
horror stories to prove it.
2. $big dollars for $park plug$... anywhere from $6 to $10 each.
3. until they went to gold-plate connectors, it had a real problem with
dirty connectors (actually, oxidized).
4. limited tuning potential, making one wish for a Holley 4-barrel
double-pump carb...
Adam Bogucki
But I owned an 88 Fox before, this one was with the CIS injection, and
was one of the "rare" ones that had a resonator in place of the
cantalytic converter. I found that the 88 had slight better pickup,
while the 92 is a little hesitant just when you're starting out. But
now with the Audi Fox manifold, it runs great! I actually
out-accelerated a Jetta III the other day, no joke!
Adam
92 Fox w/Audi Fox exhaust manifold, TT exhaust, 14" rims, more
pr...@interlog.com
www.interlog.com/~pron/
Scott McGinn
>
>
> Digifant forces the driver to learn the nuances of the
> engine-clutch-transmission interface. Even in a well-sorted Digifant
> car, every step-off should be regarded as a challenge to smooth
No kidding! At first I blamed it on my own clumsy nature but
after talking around I bit I realised it was the car. I'd hate to see
a new driver learning to drive a manual transmission using a Digifant
car!
The other big problems with Digifant cars were dirty connectors and
vacuum leaks. For some reason, Digifant seemed to respond poorly
to these and developed all sorts of weird drivability problems.
Although the fixes are simple and inexpensive, many dealers were
unaware and instead embarked on a series of expensive and
unnecessary repairs. I've been there, courtesy of Citiwest Motors,
(near Ottawa).
That said, I'd buy another Digifant car if the price was right. The
fixes for the drivability problems are now well known and apparently
there are chips available now that improve drivability and power.
Cheers;
Scott ('88 Digifant Golf, with very clean connectors)
Alden Cates
aa...@freenet.carleton.ca (Ken Lawton) wrote:
> Luke V <lva...@netrevolution.com> wrote:
>
> >Why does everyone whines about Digifant? What are the problems with that
> >injection system?
>
> The big problem with North American un-blown Digifant cars is throttle
> response.
<snip
> Hope this helps the Digifanti...
> Ken Lawton
Now for the $10,000 question, so what about the blown Digifants and Euro
Digifants? Any different?
Steffen Spies
> Digifant was like the "missing link" between CIS and Digifant2/Motronic it
> uses a pair of processors instead of a simple chip. It is slow and it is nearly
> impossible to make it performance oriented.
We use a DIGIFANT 3.0 in our Group-A-Race-Golf without any problems
and very good performance. We race at endurance races on the famous
Nürburgrind/Nordschleife and are one of the fastest Team.
So I don't see any performance problems...
Regards,
Steffen
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steffen Spies tel: 05361 / 42047
Behringstr. 7 fax: 05361 / 49948
38440 Wolfsburg / Germany e-mail: sp...@braintec.de
G. Warganich
> > Digifant was like the "missing link" between CIS and Digifant2/Motronic it
> > uses a pair of processors instead of a simple chip. It is slow and it is nearly
> > impossible to make it performance oriented.
>
In the US, AMS makes a digifant chip and a special processor board which solves the problem of
getting the computer to adjust for performance parts and driving. Now it idles better too, and is
smoother off the line. With the chip in my car, and with a few mods, I dropped nearly a second and
a half off 0-60 times. I will retest and repost when I get the stock wheels on, but with a digifant 1.8l
in a 4 door Jetta GLi, and heavier corrado wheels, we are looking at around 9 sec. 0-60mph. Not
too shabby for an 11 year old car. No cam yet either.
signed,
Glen W.-Digifant lover
GTICHAD
given enough R&D time.
VWDAN
transitions from idle. Driving one in first gear thru a grocery store parking
lot takes more concentration than driving on a road course.
My wife bought one of what had to be the very first Figidant cars, an '87 GLi.
It had suffered a mild engine compartment fire, was totaled by an insurance
company, repaired by a body shop who did good body work but poor electrical
work. After I replaced all the harnesses from the bulkhead forward, and
corrected the vacuum line routing that car would bloody scream! Much better
than even my '87 Jetta Wolfsburg 2 door.
After I made all those repairs and got it running right, I hated to sell it,
but now a mommy, the wife wanted an automatic, so off we go into the world of
Audi's with a '90 80 with Audi/VW's 2.0 8V.
Matt B.
around near idle speed (with use of the accellerator), especially
without slipping the clutch.
But I found one thing that Digifant does quite well. If you are at
idle, it can creep along very well at idle if you don't need to change
the throttle. Here in SoCal, we have controlled freeway on-ramps
(with a stoplight at the top of the ramp letting 1-2 cars on the
freeway at a time in rush hour) and one of the ones I need to take on
the way home is on an uphill incline. If I just leave the car in
first gear and let the clutch up, once fully engaged, the car will
adjust the idle speed to the hill/load and the car will move forward
smoothly uphill w/o me touching any of the pedals and it fits the
speed of traffic nicely. Yes - I know that this might be hard on the
engine, but the opposite of that (slipping/riding the clutch) would be
hard on the lining and probably on other parts (isn't there a throwout
bearing or something like that?), but it also goes easy on my left leg
this way as well :-). I guess it's a trade-off (wear on clutch vs.
engine), but at any rate, Digifant does this idle-speed-creeping thing
well.
--
-Matt
1991 Golf GTI 8v, 109K+ miles and counting...
Remove 'fightspam.' from email address to reply
VWDAN wrote in message
<199809122036...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Alden Cates
<m...@fightspam.sd.znet.com> wrote:
> I would agree that a Digifant car takes a sensitive touch to putt
> around near idle speed (with use of the accellerator), especially
> without slipping the clutch.
>
> But I found one thing that Digifant does quite well. If you are at
> idle, it can creep along very well at idle if you don't need to change
> the throttle. Here in SoCal, we have controlled freeway on-ramps
> (with a stoplight at the top of the ramp letting 1-2 cars on the
> freeway at a time in rush hour) and one of the ones I need to take on
> the way home is on an uphill incline. If I just leave the car in
> first gear and let the clutch up, once fully engaged, the car will
> adjust the idle speed to the hill/load and the car will move forward
> smoothly uphill w/o me touching any of the pedals and it fits the
> speed of traffic nicely. Yes - I know that this might be hard on the
> engine, but the opposite of that (slipping/riding the clutch) would be
> hard on the lining and probably on other parts (isn't there a throwout
> bearing or something like that?), but it also goes easy on my left leg
> this way as well :-). I guess it's a trade-off (wear on clutch vs.
> engine), but at any rate, Digifant does this idle-speed-creeping thing
> well.
hey! I do that in hills of San Francisco too! Too many stopsigns at the
top of hills to be playing with the clutch in traffic.
-alden, who for the most part loves his Digifant Corrado G60
G. Warganich
> It had suffered a mild engine compartment fire, was totaled by an insurance
> company, repaired by a body shop who did good body work but poor electrical
> work. After I replaced all the harnesses from the bulkhead forward, and
> corrected the vacuum line routing that car would bloody scream! Much better
> than even my '87 Jetta Wolfsburg 2 door.
Hi,
I thought I was the only one with an 87 digifant GLi. I agree, this car hauls ass. I love drivin it, no
engine fires yet though.
Glen W.
87 GLi digifant
Patrick Buick
Alden Cates wrote in message ...
>In article <6teuh5$me$1...@supernews.com>, "Matt B."
><m...@fightspam.sd.znet.com> wrote:
>
>> I would agree that a Digifant car takes a sensitive touch to putt
>> around near idle speed (with use of the accellerator), especially
>> without slipping the clutch.
>>
>> But I found one thing that Digifant does quite well. If you are at
>> idle, it can creep along very well at idle if you don't need to change
>> the throttle. Here in SoCal, we have controlled freeway on-ramps
>> (with a stoplight at the top of the ramp letting 1-2 cars on the
>> freeway at a time in rush hour) and one of the ones I need to take on
>> the way home is on an uphill incline. If I just leave the car in
>> first gear and let the clutch up, once fully engaged, the car will
>> adjust the idle speed to the hill/load and the car will move forward
>> smoothly uphill w/o me touching any of the pedals and it fits the
>> speed of traffic nicely. Yes - I know that this might be hard on the
>> engine, but the opposite of that (slipping/riding the clutch) would be
>> hard on the lining and probably on other parts (isn't there a throwout
>> bearing or something like that?), but it also goes easy on my left leg
>> this way as well :-). I guess it's a trade-off (wear on clutch vs.
>> engine), but at any rate, Digifant does this idle-speed-creeping thing
>> well.
>
>hey! I do that in hills of San Francisco too! Too many stopsigns at the
>top of hills to be playing with the clutch in traffic.
>
I know that my neighbors hated me here in Canada the last couple of winters.
Here in Calgary, it can go from +20 Celcius (68 Fahrenheit) to -40
Celcius/Fahrenheit (yes, they line up at -40) in a few hours during the
winter. Of course, under these conditions, you might not have the block
heater plugged in. My Digifant '92 Jetta would fire up wonderfully, much to
the chagrin of the neighbors whose non-VW autos were dead.
I too creep along in the traffic with the clutch out and idling. I can't
see why it would be hard on the engine. The idle compensator might be
"pumping" more than it normally does, but the sucker is always vibrating, so
other than having a more rich mixture than under driving conditions, the
motor isn't working any harder.
I know I'm getting *GREAT* fuel economy out of the Digifant! I get about 42
MPG in the city. Of course, I drive like a grandad to get this great
economy, but c'est la vie. I was getting much better mileage in my '92
Jetta (A2) than my wife was in her '81 Rabbit (A1) even though it is lighter
and had a much smaller motor. (Past tense, since she unintentionally tried
to push a 1 ton truck up an off-ramp with the Rabbit without much success...
we are now seeking a replacement auto for her.)
Pat
Techni Contact
modifications with great success. The first and most important was the
exhaust system. Removed the cat and installed a 2.25" mandrel bent
system. More power, better fuel mileage and solved a throttle
hesitation problem. Next was a Neuspeed 268 cam and Brospeed headers.
ECU adjusted for everything all the time. Now with a new oxy sensor
fuel mileage on highway is above 30 mpg cruising over 120 kph (75 mph).
Hot/cold starts perfect, idle stable and with a modified air intake
coming should do well off the line up to 160 kph (100 mph =4th
gear)getting power to about 5800 rpm. Using 92 octane gas my only
dissappointment is lack of a tried and true chip for the Digifants.
Adam C Johnson
I have a '91 Jetta GL, 8v, Dig. II, 126K and am having stalling problems.
A mechanic alluded that he thought it was connection problems for my
computer or the hall sending unit after I described the details.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
remove no_spam to reply
--Adam Johnson
T.L.
For the record, my 92 8V Digifant II has had zero - none - no problems;
a great car with koni / eibach / Neuspeed sways / Autotech exhaust / K&N
goodies but no cam (..yet). I've got 135K trouble free fun haulin' butt
miles on the car, and have no intention of selling it.
As far as ignition mods go, the gentlemen at AMS offer to do some
software magic; second hand communication seems to indicate that they
indeed do what they say they can do, but I must admit no first hand
knowledge. The nice folks at Garratt (sp?) may offer a Digi software
upgrade, but nothing firm yet. Supposedly, the AMS software greatly
improves the throttle response......
Just my $0.02; hopefully worth what you paid for it.......
Cheers - T.L.
Scott McGinn
>
> Can you shed some light on which connectors should be cleaned up?
>
> I have a '91 Jetta GL, 8v, Dig. II, 126K and am having stalling problems.
> A mechanic alluded that he thought it was connection problems for my
> computer or the hall sending unit after I described the details.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
It'd probably be good if we had a bit more info. Under what conditions
does your car stall? Are there any other accompanying symptoms?
Has your power or fuel economy decreased recently? etc, etc.
I'm certainly no expert, so when in doubt I just go ahead and clean
*every* low-level connector -- a can of contact cleaner goes a long
way! Everything except the ECU is straightforward and even that one
isn't too bad. You should disconnect the battery before poking around
the ECU and probably avoid direct contact with the pins to avoid
static damage.
You should also check the grounds and vacuum hoses and all the
usual ignition stuff. BTW, have you checked the FAQ?
Good Luck!
Scott ('88 Golf, running a bit rough these days too)
Adam C Johnson
My car stalls somettimes when it is hot and I have been driving it and
sometimes it jsut won't start after sitting all day in a hot parking lot. When
it does stall, it will not start for anything. I do notice that when it will
not start that I cannot hear the fuel pump run when i first turn the key on as
it normally would. I have folowed the Bentley in troubleshooting the relay and
when I short the relay, the pump runs fine (even though the car won'tstart with
the relay shorted and pump running). The bentley then says that this indicated
the control circuit to the relay is at fault.
The dealer worked on the car and it happened to be acting up when they did,
fortunately. They troubleshot it down to a bad computer at $670! ANyway, the
way it is acting I can understand the computer possibility, BUT, because it is
intermittent I don't think it is the problem.
Thanks Again...
David Sunn
did,
> fortunately. They troubleshot it down to a bad computer at $670!
ANyway, the
It's probably not the computer....but anyways, if it is then highly suggest
replacing with the AMS computer at $250US. This box works magic on the
Digifant cars.
Dave
'92 Golf