Golf 1.8 Mk III SE (same as GL.. ADZ engine) not starting.. help!!
Gizzard
1.8 Golf isn't starting... :(
Running great until yesterday, returned to car after using in the day,
it turned over but didn't start normally, slowly spluttered to life.
Went to garage topped up, car wouldn't start at all. Called out
recovery guy and of course when he arrives it splutters to life again,
cleans dizzy cap, arm rotor, car starts "as normal" we tried it
again.. so off I go. Drove as normal once started
Today used car in morning was fine. Then same problem, spluttered to
life and sounding horrible, slowly got up to normal idle and then
returned to normal/ drove as normal. Now at home the problem is
present all the time. Called out recovery guy he pulled a plug the
spark was weak, cleaned dizzy, sprayed everything with W40, check this
-check that.. now there's no spark any more. He reckons a) coil was on
last legs is now dead b) change sparks + dizzy + rotor arm c) get it
surviced asap. He was also suspicious of iginition, but felt most
likely coil, so have one on order... but before I start changing all
these parts, would appreciate some input..
Other things noticed is light metallic tinkling at 2,5k-3k.. which I
understand to be misfiring.. but it's been this way for ages. Also the
oil was down, I lose very little oil normally.. so that may be
unusual, not sure. Occasionally found the key not to work, just
nothing, requiring a second go, running fine after...
I have removed old coil, but am going off this guys word, and would
like to know if it sounds like anything else. Any input, really,,
would be appreciated..
As a novice, am I safe to change sparks and dizzy parts?? I hear you
can overtighten sparks, and distributor itself might want alignment
after being messed with..
PeterD
> This has happened at a bad time.. moving house.. no money...my trusty
> 1.8 Golf isn't starting... :(
>
You may want to consider posting year, and other information (such as
transmission type, etc.) which would perhaps be significant to resolving
your problems...
With what you've posted, it could be plug wires, plugs, the cap/rotor,
or what-not...
--
I'm never going to grow up.
Gizzard
Car is 1996, ADZ engine, manual, 90k on clock.
It's at the garage now. Mechanic says car started first attempt, but carb is flooded with oil ! Couldn't get the computer to register it
Oil in carb sounds ominous from what I've seen online..
Bernd Felsche
>Sorry, in a bit of a blind panic when I wrote that post.
>Car is 1996, ADZ engine, manual, 90k on clock.
It's still "new"! ;-)
>It's at the garage now. Mechanic says car started first attempt,
>but carb is flooded with oil ! Couldn't get the computer to
>register it
Check the crankcase ventilation. Some of the vacuum connections to
the injection housing may be leaky. Also, ensure that the dipstick
is firmly seated and not leaking.
>Oil in carb sounds ominous from what I've seen online..
It's throttle-body injection.
Bosch Mono-Motronic.
Electrically, confirm that the engine has a good "ground". There
should be a ground strip at the cylinder block where the loom and
electical controls have a common ground.
Check the loom and connection to the throttle positioner and the
injector. Also, at the distributor, make sure that the Hall sensor
connection at the distributor is good and clean.
It's a worry that you are unable to connect to the engine management
unit. If you're using a diagnostic unit that works with similar
vehicles (e.g. a Ross-Tech one), then the first problem to fix is
the inability to talk to the Mono-Motronic unit.
Check the basic throttle settings once you are talking to the
computer.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
PeterD
> Sorry, in a bit of a blind panic when I wrote that post.
>
Happens... Even to the best of us.
> Car is 1996, ADZ engine, manual, 90k on clock.
OK, now we know what we're dealing with.
>
> It's at the garage now. Mechanic says car started first attempt, but carb is flooded with oil ! Couldn't get the computer to register it
Better yet, get a new mechanic first. No carb on this car. It is fuel
injected (TBI, IIRC)
>
> Oil in carb sounds ominous from what I've seen online..
Oil in the throttle body isn't good... But a mechanic that doesn't know
the difference between a throttle body and a carb isn't going to be able
to fix it.
Gizzard
Thank you for taking the time..
Bernd I have kept your suggestions, and when I have more time I'll
inspect the engine as thoroughly as a novice can, if my car makes it
through. :-)
Regarding this :
> Oil in the throttle body isn't good... But a mechanic that doesn't know
> the difference between a throttle body and a carb isn't going to be able
> to fix it.
My preferred garage had a VW enthusiast and two chaps I depend on. On
the day I booked in, I got a "new guy", who replaced him. He talked
about injectors on collection - but I don't know what to make of the
carb comment - all I know is I don't want him working for me again.
I begged another garage to see if it's possible to communicate with
the ECU and pull up error codes, and he immediately produced a faulty
coolant sensor code (and had actually suggested that being a possible
fault over the phone). Furthermore, he also showed me where the part
is, and explained how to replace it, without charge. For future
reference, this was Bob Farnons in Knutsford.
Not sure there is a happy ending to this. First up, I made a serious
mistake. I installed the sensor, which has a clip which slides into a
groove to prevent it coming out. I'm my stressed state, I put the clip
on above the housing. The car started fine so I took it for a spin,
and all was OK, until at the bottom of a hill I noted the temp gauge
was at zero, then smoke came from under the bonnet. Limped home... The
sensor had popped out, was hanging to the wire connector, coolant
everywhere.. it took 2 litres of antifreeze and 2 litres of water to
get the level.. :(
Now I think I may have blown the engine. The car is starting fine,
idles smooth, no sludge under cap, no oil loss, but I'm getting white
smoke from the exhaust, and I think I lost a bit of coolant whilst
idling (I see no leaks).
What is the best way to determine if the engine is fried on the cheap?
I am just uploading a clip of smoke to youtube now.
Gizzard
> I am just uploading a clip of smoke to youtube now.
Gizzard
Update: currently just making short trips, idling for a few minutes
and checking..
No obvious sludge on oil cap or dipstick nor oil in expansion tank.
Suspect engine running hot (gauge stays at 90 though) and gobbling
fuel.
PeterD
>
> What is the best way to determine if the engine is fried on the cheap?
>
> I am just uploading a clip of smoke to youtube now.
That's a major ouch...
Check a good parts store for a 'products of combustion in coolant' test
kits. They are inexpensive (disposable) and will tell you if you are
getting blow-by past the head gasket. Another test is to do this (it is
not an absolutely foolproof test...)
1. With engine cold, remove radiator cap to ensure there is no pressure
in the cooling system. Replace cap.
2. Start engine and idle for about 30 seconds MAX.
3. Check for pressure in the cooling system... If there is pressure,
then there is probably a problem. No pressure do steps 4 and 5.
4. Start engine and idle for about 2 minutes seconds MAX.
5. Check for pressure in the cooling system... If there is pressure,
then there may be a problem. No pressure usually indicates that there is
no leakage past the head gasket.
Also, for grins, disconnect the battery, let it sit for a few (say 10)
minutes and reconnect to reset the ECM.
Gizzard
Thanks Peter.
I tried steps 1 to 5 above - no significant pressure.
Taking the car to the garage today, I can't afford any work but they
said they would take a look.
Contemplating K-seal..
Gizzard
Thank you Peter.
I tried the above to step 5 - no significant pressure.
I'm going to the garage this afternoon. I can't afford any work, but
they said they would take a look.
Contemplating K-seal...
PeterD
> Thanks Peter.
>
> I tried steps 1 to 5 above - no significant pressure.
>
> Taking the car to the garage today, I can't afford any work but they
> said they would take a look.
>
> Contemplating K-seal..
Good move... As I said, the test is not 100%, but for serious leaks in
the head gasket it will show results.
It is quite possible you have a leak you have not yet discovered,
possibly entrained (trapped) air pockets that are bleeding out slowly
(that causes levels to drop) and such.
I know with one Honda I worked on recently with a bad hose, you would
see antifreeze leaking from what appeared to be the water pump. In fact
the leak was on the other end of the engine, and the coolant was flowing
(somehow, never figured out the path) along the engine to the water pump
area.
We fixed the hose, and refilled. It took a week of topping off before we
got all the air bleed out of the system! What a PITA, fortunately my SIL
was good with checking and filling each time he drove.
Gizzard
Hi Peter.
I have some good news, she's not dead yet :-)
The mechanic quickly established there was no major head blow. Revved
the engine whilst checking the exhaust, and considering there is no
sludge in oil, no misfiring, or other serious symptom, he reckons the
engine should be ok and to drive normally and keep an eye on levels.
There was no smoke of any significance.
No longer convinced I have a leak either. The coolant seems to have
stabilized. I haven't been far, but there is no obvious loss. She does
seem to be a bit thirsty, and getting hot quick and staying hot, so
I'm not wholly confident yet, but the gauge stays dead on 90 and I'm
loosing no coolant.. may have been a lucky escape! I presume the water
pump changes speed to regulate the temp, and if the car was
overheating I would see that on the gauge?
I guess the ECU is still relearning, perhaps that would explain
greater fuel consumption... maybe disconnect the battery again?
I may upload a picture of the engine bay. I think in a few weeks I
will need to flush the coolant completely (I've seen youtube clips on
how to flush the radiator and block with a garden house), it would be
an apt time to replace some water pipes, plus I've mixed coolants..
all MEG stuff, but different brands.
PeterD
> I have some good news, she's not dead yet :-)
>
> The mechanic quickly established there was no major head blow. Revved
> the engine whilst checking the exhaust, and considering there is no
> sludge in oil, no misfiring, or other serious symptom, he reckons the
> engine should be ok and to drive normally and keep an eye on levels.
> There was no smoke of any significance.
Excellent.
>
> No longer convinced I have a leak either. The coolant seems to have
> stabilized. I haven't been far, but there is no obvious loss. She does
> seem to be a bit thirsty, and getting hot quick and staying hot, so
> I'm not wholly confident yet, but the gauge stays dead on 90 and I'm
> loosing no coolant.. may have been a lucky escape! I presume the water
> pump changes speed to regulate the temp, and if the car was
> overheating I would see that on the gauge?
>
Perhaps just a bubble of air (or a few of them) which I've seen in many
cars. I always tell people who have cooling system work to check coolant
levels every day for two weeks. (And give them a gallon of pre-mix to
top off with!)
> I guess the ECU is still relearning, perhaps that would explain
> greater fuel consumption... maybe disconnect the battery again?
>
I would just wait and see... It may well go down over a period of a few
weeks.
> I may upload a picture of the engine bay. I think in a few weeks I
> will need to flush the coolant completely (I've seen youtube clips on
> how to flush the radiator and block with a garden house), it would be
> an apt time to replace some water pipes, plus I've mixed coolants..
> all MEG stuff, but different brands.
Be very, very careful flushing with garden hoses! It is very easy to
blow a heater core, or other cooling system part because of over pressure.
Gizzard
> On 9/6/2011 9:14 AM, Gizzard wrote:
>
> > I have some good news, she's not dead yet :-)
>
> > The mechanic quickly established there was no major head blow. Revved
> > the engine whilst checking the exhaust, and considering there is no
> > sludge in oil, no misfiring, or other serious symptom, he reckons the
> > engine should be ok and to drive normally and keep an eye on levels.
> > There was no smoke of any significance.
>
> Excellent.
this).. the car is running better than ever. It's like.. There was
definitely white smoke out the exhaust, some not-nice-stuff came out
from there, but I'm thinking that.. scorching the engine block without
any coolant in cleaned out some junk and sediment... or maybe this is
stuff out of the cat. Whatever, I cannot feel/see or hear any obvious
problems... and the slight pinking I had before at 2.5k-3k has totally
gone!
> > No longer convinced I have a leak either. The coolant seems to have
> > stabilized. I haven't been far, but there is no obvious loss. She does
> > seem to be a bit thirsty, and getting hot quick and staying hot, so
> > I'm not wholly confident yet, but the gauge stays dead on 90 and I'm
> > loosing no coolant.. may have been a lucky escape! I presume the water
> > pump changes speed to regulate the temp, and if the car was
> > overheating I would see that on the gauge?
>
> Perhaps just a bubble of air (or a few of them) which I've seen in many
> cars. I always tell people who have cooling system work to check coolant
> levels every day for two weeks. (And give them a gallon of pre-mix to
> top off with!)
> > I guess the ECU is still relearning, perhaps that would explain
> > greater fuel consumption... maybe disconnect the battery again?
>
> I would just wait and see... It may well go down over a period of a few
> weeks.
before..
> > I may upload a picture of the engine bay. I think in a few weeks I
> > will need to flush the coolant completely (I've seen youtube clips on
> > how to flush the radiator and block with a garden house), it would be
> > an apt time to replace some water pipes, plus I've mixed coolants..
> > all MEG stuff, but different brands.
>
> Be very, very careful flushing with garden hoses! It is very easy to
> blow a heater core, or other cooling system part because of over pressure.
take them with a pinch of salt, he's obviously a bit flippant.. but
entertaining to watch (or perhaps annoying depending on your pov). :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxm3E5SkHrI
Gizzard
with an old resevoir bottle .. i usually take the cap off and look
in :)
Oil definitely wants changing..
Cheers Peter