Good Substitute for VW Non-Phosphate AntiFreeze
Lee Kokot
antifreeze. The only difference that I can determine between it and it's
aftermarket cousins is that most of the latter have phospate, and the VW
type doesn't. Supposedly, this is to protect the alumninum inner parts of
the cooling system. Has any one got a reccomendation?
--
Regards, Lee Kokot (Reseda, CA)
Dominique Cormann
says...
I have section on my web page with some info on coolants. (see .sig)
Silicates protect aluminum rads, and all of the conventional (not long
life) stuff has silicates. Phosphates are not used in european
antifreezes because they tend to mix tap (hard) water and the phosphates
would create hard particles when mixed with hard water. In North America
we tend to use distilled water, and so phosphates are safe.
You can use any of the conventional or long life products on the market.
Just make sure you see 'aluminum safe' on it and you'll be fine. Even if
it doesn't say this, you'll probably be fine. Its been a long time since
I've seen a product that wasn't aluminum safe. They have now stopped
putting it on the product, since its pretty much a given now that almost
everyone makes aluminum rads (99% of the imports, most domestics, but not
all).
--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann Email: koz...@home.com
Homepage: http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca
Diesel page: http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca/gtdproject
84 Rabbit D - daily driver 84 Rabbit GTD - work'in on it
Alden Cates
(Dominique Cormann) wrote:
> Phosphates are not used in european
> antifreezes because they tend to mix tap (hard) water and the phosphates
> would create hard particles when mixed with hard water. In North America
> we tend to use distilled water, and so phosphates are safe.
>
> You can use any of the conventional or long life products on the market.
>
> Just make sure you see 'aluminum safe' on it and you'll be fine. Even if
> it doesn't say this, you'll probably be fine. Its been a long time since
> I've seen a product that wasn't aluminum safe. They have now stopped
> putting it on the product, since its pretty much a given now that almost
> everyone makes aluminum rads (99% of the imports, most domestics, but not
> all).
Wow. If you could only see my jaw. I guess it all comes down to how much
you love your VW. Now really, is saving like $7 every two years or so
worth the *possibility* of something happening to your VW?
The original post didn't state what VW the question refered to, but if's a
newer VW that still has a warranty I'd stick with the OEM VW coolant, be
it G11 or G12. Hell, my Corrado turns 10 years old next March (build
date) and I wouldn't use anything but the VW G11 coolant. Like I posted
previously, I'd rather worry about something else then skimp to save $7
and then be saying "Gee, I wonder if that coolant I used last year is what
caused my water pump to fail" or whatever.
Then again, I'm keeping my VW until it falls apart, so it's mine for the
long haul. If I had a shit bucket for winter driving (Cali doesn't have
harsh winters so there's no need) or something then, yeah I wouldn't
really care.
http://www.hooked.net/~acates/mycar/completelist.html
Injector blueprinting is next...
-Alden
--
1990 Pearl Green Corrado G60 w/ leather, ABS, G-Chip, AT SS exhaust,
ISV check valve, EuroLights, rear-fog light, 16" Borbet Type Cs
CCA Member #201 http://www.hooked.net/~acates
Don Sverdrup
Alden Cates wrote:
snip
> Wow. If you could only see my jaw. I guess it all comes down to how much
> you love your VW.
snip
> Hell, my Corrado turns 10 years old next March (build
> date) and I wouldn't use anything but the VW G11 coolant.
Hell, my car turns 12 and has seen nothing but aftermarket coolant for 10 of
those years. Can't say I've been good about distilled water either. Two
months ago I swapped the head for a ported one and could inspect the water
passageways on the "abused" head. No build ups and no unusual oxidation
blocking heat transfer. No deterioration visible inside the block either where
the dissimilar metals would supposedly show effects. The coolant gauge has
been steady for 12 years indicating no degradation in radiator cooling, and the
oil temperature has been steady for 12 years also, again indicating no
significant change in cooling system ability.
You can either buy the marketing hype with your car, or just buy the car and
make an informed decision. I have yet to see anyone prove bad effects of
aftermarket coolants.
Hell, the discussions I have followed have only been the people who purchased
the hype, making comments. Not even a suggestion of realized damage, only the
fear.
I have a friend in Germany who will bottle some real German air direct from the
factory (gates), so you can fill your tires with what the factory intended.
Never trusted that aftemarket air! :-)
Seriously, anyone with real problems, or just people justifying spending money?
Don
(not much sympathy tonight)
Grace, Karl F
Although VW antifreeze costs 2-3 times the major brands, it seems to be
worth it to achieve the peace of mind of not having to worry about premature
cylinder head replacement due to phosphate deterioration at the gasket
surface (like I had to do at only 70,000 miles on my 87 Vanagon). Since
modern antifreeze does not have to be changed annually like in the old days,
I haven't even bothered to look for a cheaper substitute. I leave mine in
for 2-3 years and top it up when necessary. (Use of VW antifreeze only
seems to have made a difference. The new cylinder heads have 185,000 miles
on them with no leaks at the cylinder head gasket.) One final note, consider
using only distilled water to fill/re-fill your cooling system. It costs
less than $1/gallon and the "head start" it gives you on coolant cleanliness
will add to the life of the antifreeze and the coolant system. kfg
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****-
Real Discussions for Real People
Derek Pietro
deteriorate or the head gasket itself? All "modern" antifreeze
solutions are supposed to be ok for use in aluminum engines.
So can someone elaborate on this?
thanks.
---
der...@stdavids.picker.com
Derek J. Pietro
Principle Software Engineer
Picker International
Wayne, Pa. office
Dominique Cormann
says...
I have never heard of phosphates attacking anything. The 84 rabbit I
drive each day is has prestone regular stuff in it and it hasn't died
prematurely. Ditto for the 91 TD jetta we have. Both on the first head
gasket (rabbit 306,000 kms and the TD is 460,000 kms).
Modern day antifreezes....don't generalize like that.
Three types of coolants exist. Ethylene Glycol, Propylene glycol and
Organic acids. The first two are the conventional type and must be
changed every 2 yrs, the latter type every 5.
So G11 blue stuff from VW STILL MUST BE CHANGED every 2 years. Only the
red G12 can be done at 5.
http://www.prestone.com/faq/faq.html
Prestones faq explains a bit about phosphate. So does this article from
Popular mechanics.
http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/auto3/9903AUSMP.html
About the distilled water. Yes its always better to use distilled water.
It doesn't contain minerals like tap water. The minerals harden in the
cooling system. This is a long term thing, but its still bad. You can use
vinegar to remove the deposits if you've bought a used vehicle and
suspect the previous was a moron.
T Berk
>
> I'm looking for an aftermarket alternative to the (expensive) VW
> antifreeze. The only difference that I can determine between it and it's
> aftermarket cousins is that most of the latter have phospate, and the VW
> type doesn't. Supposedly, this is to protect the alumninum inner parts of
> the cooling system. Has any one got a reccomendation?
> --
> Regards, Lee Kokot (Reseda, CA)
>
> lko...@primenet.com
> www.primenet.com/~lkokot
I read all the other responses so far; Here are my two bits-
1. I have switched over to Phosphate Free at the recommendation of every
source I trust. May be overkill since I use distilled water as well but
it's not as expensive as the factory stuff either.
2. My cars and the ones I keep running are all 20 years old, appox. I
have not seen the HEADS get into problems, usually it's the
interconnecting pipes in the coolant system. They don't all corrode,
usually the weakest link (chemically) gives up it's integrity.
3. Recently i have seen sacrificial add ons that attach to a rad. cap so
as to give the system something to 'melt' away, thus sparing your
motor's innards. Anyone know of this in real life?
thx,
TBerk
Besides, the Orange Prestone stuff makes leak checks SO easy! :)
Bruce Semanchik
Lee Kokot <lko...@primenet.com> wrote:
>I'm looking for an aftermarket alternative to the (expensive) VW
>antifreeze. The only difference that I can determine between it and it's
>aftermarket cousins is that most of the latter have phospate, and the VW
I just replaced my 95 PASSAT green stuff with HAVOLINE DEX-cool. Phosphate
and silica free. When and (if) you do it USE distilled water as clorine
somehow reacts with the dex-cool to form salt...... just kidding, but use
distilled water.
Interesting I had bought my 95 PASSAT GLX used with 37K miles. It had green
anti-freeze, shorltly after the water pump failed, rep[laced under warranty.
But any way DEX-cool says "improved water pump life"....?
--
Bruce D. Semanchik 95 Passat (GLX), 96 Passat TDI, 81 Fiat2000-FI
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/6157/passat/Passat.htm
(973) 386-3985
Nick & Theresa Mascari
I just went through this getting my 96 VR6 ready for winter.
Drained the coolant from the plug told to use by the Bentley manual.
Filled it with water and Prestone Super-Flush, ran for 15 mins, let it cool,
and drain.
Filled it with plain water, let it run for 10 minutes, cool and drain.
Now I was ready to add antifreeze and distilled water. The Bentley book says
the capacity of the coolant system is 10.5 quarts, so I added 6 quarts of
antifreeze, but it only took about 2.5 quarts of the distilled water. Is the
capacity lower than 10.5 quarts or does the system not drain completely?
Will there be a problem with the 2 or so quarts of tap water that may be in
there? I dont want to sound paranoid, but I'd be willing to repeat the process
if its going to cause big $$$ repair problems.
Thanks!
Nick M
96 Jetta VR6
Robert A. Barr
>
> Now I was ready to add antifreeze and distilled water. The Bentley book says
> the capacity of the coolant system is 10.5 quarts, so I added 6 quarts of
> antifreeze, but it only took about 2.5 quarts of the distilled water. Is the
> capacity lower than 10.5 quarts or does the system not drain completely?
Probably a little of both! I've never found two manuals that agree on the same
capacity for the same Volkswagen, and there will always be some coolant hanging
around in the head & block.
>
> Will there be a problem with the 2 or so quarts of tap water that may be in
> there? I dont want to sound paranoid, but I'd be willing to repeat the process
> if its going to cause big $$$ repair problems.
>
> Thanks!
> Nick M
> 96 Jetta VR6
I wouldn't worry about the tap water that remained. Getting the mixture right has
always been a pain in the neck for me, too. The only 'risk' is that your blend is
too rich (too much antifreeze) in which case your car will probably run slightly
hotter than usual. (And you probably already have learned that, if that's the
case).
Go to a parts store and get a tester. (I prefer the Prestone dial-type). If
you're too rich, just do the obvious -- drain some existing coolant and refill with
distilled.
Otherwise, you're doing just about everything right.
Ron P.
> 3. Recently i have seen sacrificial add ons that attach to a rad. cap so
> as to give the system something to 'melt' away, thus sparing your
> motor's innards. Anyone know of this in real life?
>
Not 100% sure, but I believe this would be known as a sacrificial anode,
they are very common in the marine world. Look at a pleasure boat's
prop, just above it is a little dull gray 'wing' (well, from what I
remember of Mercruiser units anyway) - this pits with age, sacrificing
itself due to the effects of dissimilar metals, etc. and keeping the
main outdrive unaffected. I believe it's made of zinc? But I haven't
heard of one in an automotive radiator application yet. Interesting.
Ron
Daniel Watson
Nick & Theresa Mascari wrote in message <383F31AE...@corecomm.net>...
but it only took about 2.5 quarts of the distilled water. Is the
>capacity lower than 10.5 quarts or does the system not drain completely?
You probably had water still in your heater.... VW's are kinda hard to drain
completely unless you remove all the hoses. I usually fill mine with water
and drain it 4 or 5 times, then drain it a final time, add coolant, and then
top off with water. When you flush it be sure to run the heater.
six...@my-deja.com
koz...@REMOVEhome.com (Dominique Cormann) wrote:
> In article <80pm7q$3hp$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>, lko...@primenet.com
> says...
> > antifreeze. The only difference that I can determine between it
and it's
> > aftermarket cousins is that most of the latter have phospate, and
the VW
parts of
> > the cooling system. Has any one got a reccomendation?
> > --
> > Regards, Lee Kokot (Reseda, CA)
> >
> > lko...@primenet.com
> > www.primenet.com/~lkokot
> >
>
>
> Silicates protect aluminum rads, and all of the conventional (not
long
> antifreezes because they tend to mix tap (hard) water and the
phosphates
> would create hard particles when mixed with hard water. In North
America
> we tend to use distilled water, and so phosphates are safe.
>
> You can use any of the conventional or long life products on the
market.
>
> Just make sure you see 'aluminum safe' on it and you'll be fine. Even
if
> it doesn't say this, you'll probably be fine. Its been a long time
since
> I've seen a product that wasn't aluminum safe. They have now stopped
> putting it on the product, since its pretty much a given now that
almost
> everyone makes aluminum rads (99% of the imports, most domestics, but
not
> all).
>
> ============================================================---------
> Dominique Cormann Email: koz...@home.com
>
> Homepage: http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca
> Diesel page: http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca/gtdproject
>
> 84 Rabbit D - daily driver 84 Rabbit GTD - work'in on
it
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mike Critchley
I have been using Havoline phosphate free anti-freeze and it is available
from Wal-Mart for about $6.50 per gal.
Mike
six...@my-deja.com wrote in message <82vr6q$47j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Damian T. Shaw
> market.
> >
> > Just make sure you see 'aluminum safe' on it and you'll be fine. Even
> if
DON'T DO IT! Whoever wrote that isn't a God-fearing Vanagon owner.
Phosphate free is cheap and readily avail in N.America now and VW WILL NOT
honor cooling-system related warentees if they can show you've been using
phosphates. This includes the 'hidden' no-time-limit warentee VW has on
the wasserboxer Vanagons. There is a lot of technical articles out there
on phosphate v. phosphate free coolant - if you've ever read them you'll
probably agree that they don't give you a defined answer.
My opinion is that if you coolant is fresh and looked after you shouldn't
have anything to worry about. I don't recommend tempting things though;
you can only lose by not following VW's advice. There was a time when the
coolant cost so much that I could see people rebelling, but there is no
good reason now. And we all know: if you have a warentee you'd better
follow VW's rules.
My product recommendation: In my Vanagon I use Quaker State phosphate
free, in my Cabriolet I use Prestone phosphate free (the new orange
stuff). I like the Prestone best, but I keep the green stuff in my Vanagon
because it is very hard to completely empty - my coolant changes in it are
really just 1/2 changes (so I do them twice as often).
If you want some horror stories about Vanagon's and their cooling system /
phosphate woes go to some Vanagon websites like www.vanagon.com. Anyone
there will tell you it's not worth it to go against VW and use phosphates.
Damian
'87 Westy; '89 Cabriolet
Alden Cates
<dam...@billgood.net> wrote:
> My product recommendation: In my Vanagon I use Quaker State phosphate
> free, in my Cabriolet I use Prestone phosphate free (the new orange
> stuff). I like the Prestone best, but I keep the green stuff in my
> Vanagon
> because it is very hard to completely empty - my coolant changes in it
> are
> really just 1/2 changes (so I do them twice as often).
>
> If you want some horror stories about Vanagon's and their cooling system
> /
> phosphate woes go to some Vanagon websites like www.vanagon.com. Anyone
> there will tell you it's not worth it to go against VW and use
> phosphates.
>
> Damian
> '87 Westy; '89 Cabriolet
Ok I've readway more of these coolant posts then are probably necessary.
What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant? It's an extra
few bucks and none of these posts would exist.
I read a rather excellent post by Mr Randy Walters not too long ago; I
clipped it and would like to drop it into this post, hope Randy doesn't
mind....
Randy Walters wrote in message <383d7807...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
> I think it has more to do with the aluminum that VW uses in their
>heads and radiators then the quality of water in various countries.
>Water quality is different everywhere, but the aluminum they use
>is the same regardless of which country the car is sold in.
>
> I made the mistake of running Prestone in my 85 GTi a few years
>after buying the car new and within two years, my waterpump
>housing corroded from the inside and it literally crumbled and
>failed. When i removed it, it's walls were so thin i could push
>a screwdriver right through it and the whole inside of the
>waterpump assemble had a chalky white thick buildup of
>corrosion, as did the aluminum waterneck on the side of
>the head. This stuff also can clog water passages in the
>head and damage the radiator and heater core. The Prestone
>container proclaims that it's safe for all aluminum engine
>components and cooling systems but this is not true.
>
> My friend is a VW/BMW cylinder head specialist and says
>one of the most common causes of water jacket clogging
>and corrosion is caused by using non-phosphate free
>coolant. Even though the Prestone bottle says that it's
>"safe for all aluminum engine components" he says that's
>not true when it comes to German cars. VW, Mercedes, and
>BMW all require phosphate-free coolant and distilled water
>to prevent this very thing from happening. He says the
>Vanagon and watercooled Porsche 911 heads have extra
>narrow passages and thin waterjacket walls and cannot
>tolerate them being clogged or eaten away by using the
>wrong coolant. He sees it all the time and has to junk a
>lot of heads he gets from the repair shops that use his
>services. He loses a lot of business when the head is
>not repairable, and he blames it squarely on the owners
>using the wrong coolant. He'd rather rebuild a head
>then throw it away and give his customer the bad news....
>
> Randy Walters
> 85 Golf GTi
> 86 Jetta GLi
> 89 325is
--
'90 Corrado G60 w/ G-Chip, AT SS exhaust, ISV check valve, EuroLights,
Alden Cates
carn...@aol.com (CARNIEHP) wrote:
> In article <acates-85C989....@news.wenet.net>, Alden Cates
> <aca...@hooked.net> writes:
>
> >Ok I've readway more of these coolant posts then are probably necessary.
> >
> >What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant?
>
> It's called being penny wise and pound foolish.....
>
> John
> 95 Golf
> 90 Golf
Or it could be called piece of mind and saving your VW... maybe you
didn't read the post I re-posted from Mr. Walters.
Anyway, it's your VW to do with as you wish. I'd just rather not spend
time worrying if the coolant I used is adequate enough.
Happy Holidays,
Alden
CARNIEHP
>Ok I've readway more of these coolant posts then are probably necessary.
>What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant?
It's called being penny wise and pound foolish.....
John
95 Golf
90 Golf
To send me an email, reply to golfglRE...@aol.com Address above is
blocked.
Bob Grieger
> >What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant?
>
> It's called being penny wise and pound foolish.....
>
> John
> 95 Golf
> 90 Golf
>
>
All depends. Do what works. I've never had a single problem in all the years
I've had my golf with the shitty cheap prestone stuff, so long as it gets
changes every 2 years. I've had 2 waterpumps in 330000Km and no
rad/heater/general plumbing failures attributable to the fluid. (1 at
250,000, and one more at 300,000. Admittedly it was a cheapassed pump that
failed...pay $40, and get $40 worth). Others complain that the prestone stuff
chews their cooling system up in no time flat. I'd rather not pay $20 for a
bottle when I can pay $10 for something I've found every bit as effective.
Bob
Dennis M. Straussfogel
> In article <acates-85C989....@news.wenet.net>, Alden Cates
> <aca...@hooked.net> writes:
>
> >Ok I've readway more of these coolant posts then are probably necessary.
> >What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant?
>
> It's called being penny wise and pound foolish.....
>
>
>
> John
> 95 Golf
> 90 Golf
>
> To send me an email, reply to golfglRE...@aol.com Address above is
> blocked.
>
Or is it refusing to be one of the fools that VW is trying to separate
from their money? I don't buy parts from a dealer for that very reason.
Are those dealer supplied parts that much better than OEM parts from other
sources? ("Gee, they both say BOSCH on them, I wonder what VW does to make
them so much better?") Do you have more peace of mind knowing you put the
dealer supplied parts in your car at two or three times the cost?
It seems that for every horror story of non-VW coolant there's at least
one of using something else over a long period of time with no problem. So
what's the truth? Having watched this debate for a while, I don't think we
know. My own experience: I've never bought VW coolant over twenty-four VW
car-years and haven't had any coolant related problems; I currently use
Sierra. Just one more data point. TIFWIW and YMMV.
Denny Straussfogel
Two '85 Diesel Golfs
Robert A. Barr
Alden Cates wrote:
> In article <19991216221606...@ngol05.aol.com>,
> carn...@aol.com (CARNIEHP) wrote:
>
> > In article <acates-85C989....@news.wenet.net>, Alden Cates
> > <aca...@hooked.net> writes:
> >
> > >Ok I've readway more of these coolant posts then are probably necessary.
> > >
> > >What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant?
> >
> >
I have a Scirocco that will soon be 16 years old. (Gee, then can it drive
itself?) No problems at all using Prestone. None. One water pump
replacement, due to unhealthy sounds from the bearing. No overheat, no
corrosion that I could find.
I don't doubt the horror stories of others. I just haven't experienced a lick
of trouble using Prestone. The end.
Kevin Martin
the past 10 years and 100,000 miles with no problems at all. Still has the
original water pump. At nearly 160K miles it still drives like a new car.
--
Kevin M.
"Con mi vida hago lo que quieres."
-- Enrique 'Ricky' José Martin Morales
CARNIEHP
<aca...@hooked.net> writes:
>
>In article <19991216221606...@ngol05.aol.com>,
>carn...@aol.com (CARNIEHP) wrote:
>
>> In article <acates-85C989....@news.wenet.net>, Alden Cates
>> <aca...@hooked.net> writes:
>>
>> >Ok I've readway more of these coolant posts then are probably necessary.
>> >
>> >What makes people SO determind NOT to use the VW coolant?
>>
>> It's called being penny wise and pound foolish.....
>>
>> John
>> 95 Golf
>> 90 Golf
>
>Or it could be called piece of mind and saving your VW... maybe you
>didn't read the post I re-posted from Mr. Walters.
>
>Anyway, it's your VW to do with as you wish. I'd just rather not spend
>time worrying if the coolant I used is adequate enough.
>
>Happy Holidays,
>Alden
Maybe I was a bit tired when I made that post....What I meant was, that people
were being "Penny Wise" by saving a few bucks and buying the wrong coolant (or
at least trying to be Penny Wise)....and then being pound foolish by making an
"uncalled for" repair caused by using the wrong coolant.....
BTW- I can't see why anyone would use standard coolant in these cars, it's not
like the VW stuff costs that much more. Their shouldn't even need to be a
debate.
Magic2626
>like the VW stuff costs that much more. Their shouldn't even need to be a
>debate.
I agree.... I've had a waterpump fail on an Acura running standard Prestone
green anti freeze. Guess what? Only Honda coolant and Halvoline Dex Cool are
borate free.... borate is a useful but abrasive additive that eats water pump
seals in hondas.
Many car makers have switched over to organic acid technolgy coolants, and no
longer design around ethylene glycol formulas which contain silicates, borates,
ntites, or phosphates.
In modern VW's, use the factory coolant , like VW's G11 or G12, or use
Halvoline Dex Cool. But the factory coolant is probably safer.
I pay attention to all factory recommended fluids... sometimes any generic or
name brand fluid is fine, sometimes only factory fluids are good enough, and
sometimes the aftermarket makes superior products....but without extensive
research the factory fluid is the safest bet.
Dominique Cormann
buy it at the dealer for twice the price or by Zerex at your local
autoparts store for half.
Your call.
Ditto with my other parts. I buy the best price for the money. I don't
care where it comes from. For oil filters for example I use Bosch
filters. They are just as good as the VW filters. Why? Because Bosch and
VW filters are made by the same company. Champion labs. Bosch makes the
VW filters, and champion labs makes the actually physical filter to
fufill the contract for bosch. On my web page in the oil filter section I
have an email from Bosch about this.
Dennis M. Straussfogel
debate. I noticed that the horror stories attributed to non-VW coolant
don't mention what kind of water was mixed with it. I've never used VW
coolant, but I always mix what I use with distilled water, which you can
get for less than a buck a gallon at the grocery store (make sure it's
"distilled" and not "spring" water). Knowing how fast hard water will
destroy a household hot water heater, it would be no surprise to find out
the destruction attributed to the non-VW coolant is actually caused by
hard water being mixed with it. (I just had the head off one of my Diesel
Golf and saw no sign of bad things happening in the coolant ports--that's
after ten years of non-VW coolant use.
There are just too many people who have reported using green Prestone, or
whatever, without any problems to not think there's something else going
on with the folks who think they've had engines destroyed by it. If
someone can verify that they've had a catastophic failure but have
*always* used distilled water in the system, that would be an interesting
data point.
Denny Straussfogel
Two '85 Diesel Golfs
(both running fine on 60/40 Sierra/distilled H2O)
Alden Cates
dm...@nh.ultranet.com (Dennis M. Straussfogel) wrote:
<snip>
> (I just had the head off one of my Diesel
> Golf and saw no sign of bad things happening in the coolant ports--that's
> after ten years of non-VW coolant use.
> Denny Straussfogel
> Two '85 Diesel Golfs
> (both running fine on 60/40 Sierra/distilled H2O)
Curiously, don't diesel cooling systems see lower temps on the average
compared to gasoline engines?
My '90 Corrado G60 used to regularly run upto 230F then fall back to
220F, the VR6 Corrado hovers around 230F.
The previous owner of my car (I bought it 4 years ago with 62k miles)
said he had the coolant changed every 2 years at an independent VW
garage (which used green coolant, and I'd assume distilled water.) Last
year I noticed a small leak where coolant would spray out at, what I
assume, high temps. Then not too much later my water pump failed.
Needless to say I started using VW G11 coolant (blue stuff) right away.
While my experiences are anecdotal, maybe the case for using VW coolant
is stronger for some cars than others. My dad's old '85 VW Quantum GLS
needed a new radiator and he had been using the green stuff and he did
use distilled water (though it was probably more because of poor cooling
system design of the car than the coolant but it DID have the green
coolant.)
Anyway, to *me* paying an extra couple bucks every 2 years for VW
coolant is worth every cent in the piece of mind it gives me that my
Corrado is being properly protected by what VW specified for it. The
car's my baby and I'm keeping it as long as possible, heck the seats eat
enough change in the period of 2 years to pay for the coolant!
If I had a VR6 I'd be careful with coolants as VW put out a tech
bulletin that all VR6s should be changed over to G12 because of head
corrosion problems. A few Corrado VR6 owners in the Corrado Club have
had that problem...
-Alden
Magic2626
bulletin for more than a year, and they say there s no tech bulletin and not to
switch from blue G11 to red G12.
So instead I change the G11 coolant and distilled water every 24 months or
less.
Alden Cates
magi...@aol.com (Magic2626) wrote:
> Ive been asking the VW dealership in Colorado about this G11 to G12 tech
> bulletin for more than a year, and they say there s no tech bulletin and
> not to
> switch from blue G11 to red G12.
>
> So instead I change the G11 coolant and distilled water every 24 months
> or
> less.
Check the VW tech service bulletin here:
http://tech.vw.com/pdf/19-96-01.pdf
Which doesn't specifically say to switch all VR6s, but you'll also find
more information on that here:
http://www.gti-club.org/gti-vr6/gti-vr6-list/
It's password protected and I thought it was login: driver pswd: hired
but I guess they changed it or whatever. So.... you're on your own with
getting that, I'm sure the GTI boys can help here. But it does have a
specific discussion pertaining to the coolant G11 vs G12.
-Alden