Dropping the distributor shaft thrust washer into the engine
Gavin Lee
I hear that its not a good thing to do. However, while carefully
removing the thrust washer from the bottom of the distributor shaft
hole, it magically leapt up off the hook I had bent out of a coat
hanger and swan dived down never to be seen again.
The books say that disassembly of the engine may be necessary to
retrieve it. What do they mean "may be necessary" is there a better
way?
Is it essential to retrieve it? Where does it go - down to sleep
harmlessly at the bottom of the sump? In which case I can get another
washer and forget it.
Thanks in advance.
Gavin
Gavin Lee (gl...@pcug.org.au)
Canberra, Australia.
Sterlng007
You can try to retreive it at the sump filter. If you can get a magnet like one
of those flexible strip ones then you can move it around in the sump area and
maybe get it back. I almost dropped two washers into a new engine once. I did a
real stupid thing like laying a open gasket kit on the engine and while moving
the engine around I heard a tink. I looked down and saw two metal washers
caught in between the cam and crank gear. They fell in right through where the
alt. stand goes. I was able to get them out, but was alot more carefull after
that.
Ron
66 single cab (undergoing full restoration)
73 beetle (being customized eventually)
: ___
: / i__ I_________ /_o_\
: ( _/ \______/ \_I I
: O O /\
mike_ti...@my-dejanews.com
gl...@pcug.org.au (Gavin Lee) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I hear that its not a good thing to do. However, while carefully
> removing the thrust washer from the bottom of the distributor shaft
> hole, it magically leapt up off the hook I had bent out of a coat
> hanger and swan dived down never to be seen again.
>
> The books say that disassembly of the engine may be necessary to
> retrieve it. What do they mean "may be necessary" is there a better
> way?
> Is it essential to retrieve it? Where does it go - down to sleep
> harmlessly at the bottom of the sump? In which case I can get another
> washer and forget it.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
You're not going to sleep well unless you get that spacer washer out of
there. Try a magnet. Get another case or a shop manual picture and try to
visualize where the washer may have gone. If it ends up in the sump by the
strainer I can't see where it will hurt to leave it in. I have found various
washers and fasteners in VW sumps before when I split the case. You wouldn't
want that to get caught up in your cam gear though.
To keep this from happening again try this:
Use a piece of stiff wire 12"(30cm) long to help you remove or replace those
washers on an assembled engine. Take the wire and stick it down in the hole
through the spacer washers 'til it touches bottom. Now use a wire hook or a
magnet and fish out the washers, sliding them up the wire. The wire keeps
them from zinging off sideways and into the case if you slip. The same wire
to install them too. Put a dab of grease on the washers to hold them in place
for while you slide the drive gear in. You can use the same wire to install
the spring that goes in the top of the drive gear. Just put the wire end in
the spring hole, thread the little coil spring onto the wire and slide it
down into the drive gear. I find the center bottom of a wire coathanger is
just about perfect size.
The best way to set distributor drive gear play is when the engine is on the
"half shell" during assembly. You can set the vertical play just right with
different size spacer washers.
Mike T.
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GazMP
>Is it essential to retrieve it?
YES
> Where does it go - down to sleep harmlessly at the bottom of the sump?
Doubt it
> In which case I can get another washer and forget it.
Get a magnetic pickup (I've got a biro shaped extendable magnet) have a poke
around inside the engine. Remove the sump plate and fish around in there and
down the distributor shaft. Just find it, you never let anything float around
in the engine.
Gaz
David Tosi
When in college, I used to tune up VWs to make money. One time I was
all done, and pouring in the oil when I heard a clink! Upon
investiation, I found that the oil spout had a screw that held the sharp
point in the neck and it had fallen out. I ended up disaasembling the
fan shroud and generator to remove the pedastle where I found the screw
in between the timing gear teeth. After all that work, all I could
charge for was the oil change and tune up!! Live and learn: I have no
oil spouts with any kind of fasteners on them any more!
Dave
'71 T1 driver
'65 T1 under resto
Gavin Lee
I failed to mention I have a 2 litre twin carb engine in a '76 kombi,
if that is relevant to where to look.
Thanks again
John Connolly
and clamp it to the oil pickup. It won't go past there if it got nearby.
John
GazMP wrote:
> In article <35f7a8f...@newshost.pcug.org.au>, gl...@pcug.org.au (Gavin Lee)
> writes:
>
> >Is it essential to retrieve it?
> YES
>
> > Where does it go - down to sleep harmlessly at the bottom of the sump?
> Doubt it
>
> > In which case I can get another washer and forget it.
> Get a magnetic pickup (I've got a biro shaped extendable magnet) have a poke
> around inside the engine. Remove the sump plate and fish around in there and
> down the distributor shaft. Just find it, you never let anything float around
> in the engine.
>
> Gaz
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Jan Andersson
>
> Hi,
>
> I hear that its not a good thing to do.
True.
> However, while carefully
> removing the thrust washer from the bottom of the distributor shaft
> hole, it magically leapt up off the hook I had bent out of a coat
> hanger and swan dived down never to be seen again.
Don't lose hope. it won't come out the same way on it's own tho.
> The books say that disassembly of the engine may be necessary to
> retrieve it. What do they mean "may be necessary" is there a better
> way?
Use the same coathanger with a hook at the end to fish out the spacer
from the big hole in the bottom of the case, remove the round oil pan
plate. With luck, you could be able to fish it out. Once the oil has
drained out of course..:-)
> Is it essential to retrieve it?
Yes.
> Where does it go - down to sleep harmlessly at the bottom of the sump?
Well, that's where it goes at first, but chances are that all the action
inside the case during hard driving will kick it about and it can go to
places where it is not welcome, and your engine will die for good.
> In which case I can get another washer and forget it.
Fish it out.
If nothing else helps, pull the engine and *sHaKe* it upside down etc.
until it falls out. Hope you been to the gym lately..:-)
(I need a friend for that!)
The last resort is taking the engine apart. If you end up doing that,
why not replace some worn parts etc, a good opportunity for a rebuild.
P.S. when you are putting the darn spacer BACK, and installing the
distributor drive, first put the washer in a long screwdriver, let it go
all the way to the handle and then grab it with your fingers so it
doesn't move while you put the screwdriver into the dizzy drive hole...
then when the tip of the screwdriver hits the bottom, just release the
washer and it will fall right in it's place, guided all the way by the
screwdriver. Use vaseline on the washer as "glue" so it sticks in it's
place better.
Jan
Jan Andersson
I once helped a friend put together an old VW engine, he said he found
the sad remains of a PISTON inside the case. Only about one half of one
though. Weird.
Jan
allanwilliams
both thrust surfaces of the piston were broken of and sitting in the sump -
lucky they didn't get caught somewhere on the way there!
--
Allan Williams
visit NVWC at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/imola/141/
E-Mail me:
allanwilliams AT hotmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Jan Andersson wrote in message <35F8D23C...@sonera.fi>...
Gavin Lee
I got it out. I was very lucky though.
I bought a small magnetic pick up on a piece of aluminium wire. the
magnet barely fit through the gap between the wall of the dist drive
shaft hole and a couple of cogs, so I thought I had no hope of pulling
the washer out. Its amazing the washer fit through in the first
place. Anyway, after a minute or two I was about to consider trying
fishing around through the oil drain hole and as I pulled the magnet
out I heard a tinkle which didn't sound like the magnet hitting
anything. So I got the torch, stuck my head right in there
(Kombi/Bus) scratching my glasses, drawing blood from my scalp on I
don't know what, and there wedged lightly between the side of the hole
and a cog was the washer! It wasn't going to come out by magnetic
force, but the magnet was holding it within reach. I bent a big hook
into the trusty coat hanger, carefully fed it down the hole and
through the washer, and ripped the bl.... thing out. Hallelujah. See
you at church on sunday!
The next step is to get cylinder number one at TDC. Is the easiest
way to do this to put a screwdriver down the spark plug hole and feel
it as you line up the notch with the 0 degree mark?
Then the shaft goes in with the drive slot 12 degrees off a line drawn
front to back with the smaller "half" of the top of the shaft to the
outside. John Muir's book suggests that it should be 90 degrees ie
across the engine, for type II, and 12 degrees for type IV. I think
this is incorrect. It should be 12 degrees for Type II, (1976 2
litre twin carb model) shouldn't it?
Unknown... [not from around here]
Should be engine code GD if it's the original.
MTS
On Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:54:06 GMT, gl...@pcug.org.au (Gavin Lee) writ: