I can't give you numbers, since my VWs aren't instrumented. I can tell
you that you will see an improvement when you get your tin squared away.
You really should have looked after the tin when you put the doghouse
cooler on!
If you want to get an idea of how the lack of sealing affects your
engine, go down to Radio Shack and get a $10 indoor-outdoor
thermometer. Tape the "outdoor" sensor in the airflow to the fan
intake, and then tape the display to your back window so you can see it
while driving.
Drive the car and see what the fan intake temperature _really_ is. With
a bad rear tin, I would expect to see temps around 30 degrees F above
the outside air temperature. This means that on a 90 degree day you
engine will think that it's 120 degrees out!
With the tin installed and sealed correctly, the fan intake temperature
will be within a couple of degrees of the outside air temperature. Much
nicer for your motor.
While you have the tin apart, be sure to check it all for cracks (you
will probably find some on the cylinder tin of dual-port motors, at
least!) Cracks can be fixed by brazing the cracks back together. I
also use sheet metal doublers in crack-prone areas. This makes the tin
much longer lasting and easier to work on. I don't like aftermarket
tin, as it often doesn't fit as well as the OEM stuff.
The reason I don't run a gauge is that I keep my motors stock, so they
should stay within their designed parameters. Ol' Dr. Porsche didn't
think it needed a temperature gauge, so it probably doesn't! If you do
run a guage, make sure that it properly calibrated. Calibration errors
are common with automotive instrumentation and can make you think that
you have a problem when you really do not.
George Lyle
--
Note: Return address altered to deflect junk e-mail.
Delete the leading "G" in the address when replying.
I converted to doghouse cooling this spring, but, it really doesn't seem
to help at all.
My oil temperatures have been ridiculous. I don't drive more than 15
miles at a time, because the oil just gets too hot. Any more driving than
that and the engine compartment starts to broil, and smoke sizzles off of
everything. I see anything from 180 at night after 12 miles to 240 in
the day after 12 miles (it must have been hot today) .
I can't stand it when it hits anything above 210 degrees. I don't even
drive on the highway in fear that it will just burn up. I thought I had
an engine fire today after the 240 degree incident.
I admit, there are gaps in the tin, as I have somewhat old and banged up
tins. The rear breastplate is the wrong one, and it has the wrong
shape......and it doesn't provide much of a seal at all. When I DO get
the right breastplate, and get new tins (after my rebuild: it leaks tons
of oil anyway), what should I expect for a stock dual port 1600/doghouse
cooler in this warm 85+ degree weather? BTW: I have a thunderbird header
and single QP.
/ben
'69 beetle
'56 beetle
Someone once posted about a web site with some data about oil breakdown
temps. I vaguely remember something about Mobil One. Anyone?
--
John Henry
'85 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg- Alloy rims : Leather Interior : 1.8l : H4
Conversion : Bosch Driving Lights : 5 Speed : Cruise : Raytheon
Technologies Rear Facing Rocket Launcher : Kimmel XLf80 Fusion Cannon
w/Laser Tracking and Titanium Accumulator : MarTom Tuhf Range finder
with GPS : AM/FM Cassette :
'57 VW Beetle- very evenly distributed across a 2 car garage
'95 Merc Sable Wagon- lotsa buttons and switches (Wife's school bus)
Neb79 <ne...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970605051...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> It is in the high 80s here, and in the 90s some days. It won't be long
> untill it hits triple digits.
>
> I converted to doghouse cooling this spring, but, it really doesn't seem
> to help at all.
> My oil temperatures have been ridiculous. I don't drive more than 15
> miles at a time, because the oil just gets too hot. Any more driving
than
> that and the engine compartment starts to broil, and smoke sizzles off of
> everything. I see anything from 180 at night after 12 miles to 240 in
> the day after 12 miles (it must have been hot today) .
> I can't stand it when it hits anything above 210 degrees. I don't even
> drive on the highway in fear that it will just burn up. I thought I had
> an engine fire today after the 240 degree incident.
>
> I admit, there are gaps in the tin, as I have somewhat old and banged up
> tins. The rear breastplate is the wrong one, and it has the wrong
> shape......and it doesn't provide much of a seal at all. When I DO get
> the right breastplate, and get new tins (after my rebuild: it leaks tons
> of oil anyway), what should I expect for a stock dual port 1600/doghouse
> cooler in this warm 85+ degree weather? BTW: I have a thunderbird header
> and single QP.
Say, Ben,
Don't worry, be happy. 240 degrees fahrenheit is a little bit warm, I
guess, but keep in mind that even non-synthetic engine oil keeps
lubricating well up into the 300's. If you have an old leaky engine,
perhaps with a little bit of wear on the rings, I suspect that the pressure
of the blow-by gasses may be forcing your oil out all over the place. The
smoke you see and smell would then be a result of oil dripping onto the
heads and exhaust system.
I don't honestly know what a normal oil temperature for a T-1 engine is,
but the low 200's sounds OK to me. Even water-cooled engines can get up
onto that range sometimes, and my friend's Porsches run that hot and hotter
as a matter of course.
--Erik
>Don't worry, be happy. 240 degrees fahrenheit is a little bit warm, I
>guess, but keep in mind that even non-synthetic engine oil keeps
>lubricating well up into the 300's.
Are you sure of this? I heard once that non-synthetic oil loses its
lubricating properties above 240something degrees Farenheit. Something
along the lines of "50 percent for every 10 degrees above 250".........
I am using mostly Quaker state 10w30....and a quart or so of Mobil
10w30....
?
I'm using straight 40W oil. That's a little thick for most, but in Florida
it's hot enough that I can get away with it on the coolest days, and it
helps keep my oild pressure up.
As to the multigrade argument, here's what I've heard (emphasize heard, I
don't know myself). Some people say it thickens with temp changes. A
fellow I know who I believe to be fairly knowledgeable says this is not
so. Instead, he says, it thins as it gets hotter but it ha sadditives to
its lubrication ability remains even as it gets thinner. This doesn't
help int he VW, as oil pressure goes down as oil gets thinner.
Good luck, and don't let it get so hot.
Porgial
>I've got a 1600 engine in a '70 Ghia. I added a full flow high volume
oil
>pump. My VDO gauges say that I'm running 185 degrees when it's in the
70s
>out, and that's after 5 hours of highway driving between 55 and 60 mph.
>It goes up to 200-210 if I increase my speed to 65. Yesterday I drove
500
>miles, and the temp was high 80s (Tallahassee to Miami, FL) and my temp
>went up to 200-210. I'm happy with that. If my temp went up to 240 I
>would FREAK OUT!!
But wait...if you say that your engine runs around 200-210 at 70 degrees
(at 65mph)........then....if it were 95-100 degrees out (like it is here a
lot in summer)....wouldn't it be about 230-240?...jeez?!??! Is this a
losing battle?
Neb79 <ne...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970607045...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> In article <01bc72e5$3e04a3e0$0300...@erik.firmsupport.com>, "Erik the
> Red" <er...@firmsupport.com> writes:
>
> >Don't worry, be happy. 240 degrees fahrenheit is a little bit warm, I
> >guess, but keep in mind that even non-synthetic engine oil keeps
> >lubricating well up into the 300's.
>
> Are you sure of this? I heard once that non-synthetic oil loses its
> lubricating properties above 240something degrees Farenheit. Something
> along the lines of "50 percent for every 10 degrees above 250".........
>
I suppose I could be a bit off. I had read somewhere about what the
effects of heat are on synthetic vs. non-synthetic oils, but those
temperatures were in Celsius, so I did a little top-of-head arithmetic and
came up with that no harm is really done until the 300F range. But now
that I think of it, that article was geared more toward the oil's ability
to withstand high temperatures without being permanently damaged. You can
boil your oil up into the three-hundreds and when it cools off it will
still have good lubricating properties. But I'm not so sure about its
lubricating properties as it is actually being boiled. Sorry to be so
indecisive.
I guess that one big advantage of synthetic oil is that it allows you to
design your engine for higher temperature operation, which gives you better
fuel efficiency and the freedom to squeeze more performance from the
engine, should you choose to do so.
>But wait...if you say that your engine runs around 200-210 at 70 degrees
>(at 65mph)........then....if it were 95-100 degrees out (like it is here
a
>lot in summer)....wouldn't it be about 230-240?...jeez?!??! Is this a
>losing battle?
No. Since the last post temps have skyrocketed here in North Florida. In
the high 80s, low 90s I'm still running at 186 degrees. My point about
going up to 200-210 at 65 mph was the speed difference. My car doesn't
like going 65. It likes going 60. At 65 my temp leaps up 15 degrees. If
it were 95-100 out and I was doing 65, it porbably would be a losing
battle. I won't be going that fast. As you fly by me, worrying about
whether your engine will be medium or well-done, I will be puttering along
at 60 and under 200 degrees. It's only a losing battle if you fail to
figure out the rules for your particular car.
Porgial
--
Send email to jcl...@ibm.net. The above address is incorrect to defeat
automatic mailers.
Porgial <por...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970608130...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
<snip>
> As to the multigrade argument, here's what I've heard (emphasize heard, I
> don't know myself). Some people say it thickens with temp changes. A
> fellow I know who I believe to be fairly knowledgeable says this is not
> so. Instead, he says, it thins as it gets hotter but it ha sadditives to
> its lubrication ability remains even as it gets thinner. This doesn't
> help int he VW, as oil pressure goes down as oil gets thinner.
ALL oil thins as it heats, including your SAE40. A multigrade just doesn't
thin as much when it heats. When a 10W-50 is cold, it's as thick as an
equally cold 10-weight single grade, while when it's hot it's as thick as
an equally hot 50-weight single-grade. In between the two temperatures
it's thicker than a 10-weight but thinner than a 50-weight. This is what
the additive that makes the oil multigrade (called a "viscosity index
improver") does. The oil pressure in your VW should be the same with a
10W-50 or a straight 50 when the oil is hot. If it's not then someone sold
you some defective or mislabeled oil.
--John
How do I know if its running hot?
The hood/bonnet is always very hoy after a long drive, I've assumed this
is normal.
Frank
Wow, didn't know they put the engine in the front on the '79s. :)
--
Steve Early
'62 VW crew cab *for sale*, see http://udel.edu/~early
Frank
I have an interesting theory on hopping up VW motors...
A VW motor is like a light bulb. A 12 volt light bulb gives a
moderate amount of light, but add more electricity, and it gets
brighter. Of course, the more electricity added, the shorter the
life, until you reach the point of it becoming a photographic
flashbulb...
I may be wrong, but you loose in reliability and longevity when
engines are 'enhanced' with performance accessories past a mild hop
up.
>
> I have an interesting theory on hopping up VW motors...
>
> A VW motor is like a light bulb. A 12 volt light bulb gives a
> moderate amount of light, but add more electricity, and it gets
> brighter. Of course, the more electricity added, the shorter the
> life, until you reach the point of it becoming a photographic
> flashbulb...
>
> I may be wrong, but you loose in reliability and longevity when
> engines are 'enhanced' with performance accessories past a mild hop
> up.
You forget one thing...
When hopping up them engines, you don't only "slap on" performance
parts.
That's what the "know-it-all" teenagers do, and they are the ones with
blown engines.
What happens when increasing the power output of most any engine is,
that you pay as much or even more attention to modifications that
make the engine last longer, and operate more smoothly, run cooler,
etc... there is absolutely NO "bolt-on power", you always have to
go "all the way", and that means you modify the engine to meet the
requirements of the inreased horsepower.
Allow me to take your lightbulb as an example...
if you compare it to (professional) engine hotrodding,
it would mean something like this:
If you run more current/voltage through the lightbulb, it
would run too hot. This is why you modify the bulb, you change the
internal parts to heavier ones, that can take the increased voltage.
You also check if you could find a more suitable gas to use inside the
bulb. perhaps you would try to design a cooling unit at the base of the
bulb. THIS is what it's all about.
You can spend 1000 dollars on the high-performance parts, but you should
also spend 1000 or 1500 dollars on parts that help your engine live with
that extra power.
Nobody said it would be cheap. Nobody said it would be easy.
You have to know what you're doing, and you always MUST go all the way.
You simply cannot cut any corners, in order to save money.
If you cannot afford the whole project, you better leave it stock.
jan
Well Noah/Frank/tsherwoo (whatever your name is), since you saw fit to
send me private email I responded via private email. However, since
the email bounced, and since all my attempts to obtain your correct email
address have been unsuccessful, I've decided to post your email and my
response as a followup to my original post. The information follows:
From ea...@copland.udel.edu Tue Jun 17 13:52:35 1997
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:37:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Early <ea...@copland.udel.edu>
To: Noah <tshe...@bayou.uh.edu>
Subject: Re: How hot is "normal" oil temp for summer VWs?
Yes, hood can be front or back but you used the word bonnet. Bonnet
refers to the front cover on a bug. As far as your comment about the IQ
of my ass, I don't see the relevance.
Steve Early
'62 VW crew cab *for sale*, see http://udel.edu/~early
: Frank
Dearest Frank,
You, I beleave used teh term "Hood/Bonnett". Bonnett ALLWAYS
refers to the front compartment on a automobeal (Or a ladys sunday head
attire). "Hood", refers to the front compartment on one of Detroyts
horrific offerings. What "front trunk" is I'm not sure, but I am
guessing it is a mishiganders term for "bonnett" (As in Detroyt the
concept of putting the luggage compartment in front and the engine in
back - where God intended - is a forgen one). That place where your
engin goes is refered to (by VW at least) as the deck, and the cover that
goes over it as the deck lid.
To reiterate, if you have a aircooled VW, you have a bonnett up
front, and a decklid covering your engine.
Oh, and wile I'm on the topic, lets stop pretending that our cars
are made by GM or Jaguare... they have ENGINES folks, NOT MOTORS.... a
motor is an electricly drivem proplsion device, an engine is an internal
combustion device of some sort, weather it be gassoline, or wood gasses
it's an ENGINE!!!
Please, in the feature, get your vernacular right before bashing
others about there correcting you.
Steve '66 Ghia Coupe
--
___________________Standard .Signature line to follow________________________
Ok, recently even I have grown annoyed with the length of my
.sig... I didn't think it was possible, but it is. To simplify things
and in an attempt to keep them shorter I will summerise in a new handy
dandy easy to use outline form. (might as well put those $1800.00 in
English 101 credits to use SOMEWHERE - and you thought you would never use
all that stuff... arn't you lucky you payed close attention? ... See, your
mother was right, it did pay off BIG)
I. Title: Steve's .Signature
II. Introduction (see above)
III. Body
1)Spelling.
a) I can't.
b) I don't care.
c) No need to point (a) above out to me
d) Ridicule
e) How do we know Webster is wright?
f) Use Dictionary to check spelling???
2) web page
a) http:\\www.public.asu.edu\
b) Cool and stuff
3) Mom
a) No
b) No the web page isn't up yet either
c) Becouse she is to lazy to wright it
4)Quote de Joure
a) Quote of the day
b) Witty
III. Conclusion
1) Summation (see II above).
2) Disclamer stating that my oppinions are worthless.
3) Yes I realise you allready know this.
Hope this makes things easyer/clearier,
Steve
In order to communicate with the rest of us in a way that we understand
what you want to say, please learn to spell. -No offense....;)
jan
P.S: your .sig really IS too big. Still. :)
P.S.S: My opinions are mine alone, and anyone out there is hereby
allowed to try to change them.
Good point. That's always been a pet peeve of mine too.
it is easier when referring to the VW (at least here in the USA) to use
the terms "hood" and "decklid" to discuss front and back respectively.
Avoids confusion.
John
I don't see why. My dictionary defines motor as:
"any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: as a:
a small compact engine b: internal combustion engine; esp: a gasoline
engine c: a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into
mechanical energy."
def. a and b seem to fit the device in the back of my bus pretty well.
George
> Please, in the feature, get your vernacular right before bashing
> others about there correcting you.
(A Wise Comment Indeed! Methinks thou should Practice As Thou
Preacheth.)
...and additionally gave us the not_entirely_correct statement:
> To reiterate, if you have a aircooled VW, you have a bonnett up
> front, and a decklid covering your engine.
I respectfully submit to all - intellectually challenged or not - that
in the world of "aircooled VW"s (as Steve apparently defines the domain
of which he speaks), this is -ahem- Not True.
Please note that I would not have bothered to post, save the opportunity
to correct someone who admonished someone else for the same offense...
Please Note:
In the Karmann Ghia World - which, like it or not falls in the general
domain of "aircooled VW" - BOTH the Front Opening And the Rear Opening
are covered with a "deck lid." They are distinguished via the additional
adjective "front" or "rear" when necessary, or it is left to context.
This is the present useage in our living language and it is considered
proper, appropriate and literate.
Further, it is considered acceptable in the Karmann Ghia Community to
use various other terms such as "engine lid" or "trunk lid", "front
hood" or "rear hood" - our British/Australian friends generously
excepted (for their use of hood matches the more verbose American
English term Convertible Top - they might instead say the "boot lid"!
-smile-) - so long as the terms used are properly qualified.
Therefore I recommend that BEFORE admonishing Others - be sure you get
your own ___ in order.
Regards,
RT
--
Richard Troy, President
The Karmann Ghia Club of North America
4200 Park Blvd, #151, Oakland, CA, 94602
rt...@Postgres.Berkeley.EDU
rt.g...@Barra.com
510-567-9957
510-643-1016 @UCB
510-642-5615 FAX @ UCB
The KGCNA Web Page:
http://s2k-ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:8000/personal/rtroy/kgcna/
>Good point. That's always been a pet peeve of mine too.
>--
You should pass this point on to GM (General Motors). It must be about a
hundred years ago that they mis-named the company.
------Dave Brumbley------
>Stephen Early wrote:
>>
>> In article <5oo3kt$r...@news.asu.edu>, <gret...@imap1.asu.edu> wrote:
>> > Oh, and wile I'm on the topic, lets stop pretending that our
cars
>> >are made by GM or Jaguare... they have ENGINES folks, NOT MOTORS.... a
>> >motor is an electricly drivem proplsion device, an engine is an
internal
>> >combustion device of some sort, weather it be gassoline, or wood
gasses
>> >it's an ENGINE!!!
>>
>> Good point. That's always been a pet peeve of mine too.
>
>I don't see why. My dictionary defines motor as:
>
>"any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: as a:
>a small compact engine b: internal combustion engine; esp: a gasoline
>engine c: a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into
>mechanical energy."
>
>def. a and b seem to fit the device in the back of my bus pretty well.
>
>George
I love the MOTOR in my car. =)
=P
/ben
'69 beetle
/ben
'69 beetle
> I just wanted to know what the "normal" oil temperature is for a doghouse
> equipped VW engine!
FWIW, my 77vert 1600ccm runs about 85 degrees Celsius at 100 km/h. Recently,
it went far higher when the belt to the generator broke and I did not see
the red light immediately because of sunshine from the back and because the
carb went crazy (due to its broken spring I discovered lateron)
which I tought was the primary problem :-/ Unfortunately there was no
sensor for the temp gauge at this time. This was fixed the day after ...
- the engine survived, after a big smoke 8-]