Distributor Drive Shaft Misaligned
Randy & Yvette Reeves
Hi Everyone...
I've got a rebuilt Type 1 long block engine and am putting all the
bolt-on stuff on. I purchased a Bosch 009 distributor. The problem is
the distributor drive shaft appears to be misaligned. When I put
cylinder one at TDC, the slot on top of the distributor drive shaft is
not perpendicular to the split line in the crankcase (it's about 30
degrees counter-clockwise of parallel with the narrow part of the slot
at the pulley side of the engine). I'm sure cylinder one is at TDC and
verified it by using a screwdriver inserted into the spark plug hole and
felt the top of the piston at the very top of the compression stroke -
The crankshaft pulley also indicates TDC . I fear that I now have to
remove the distributor drive shaft and reposition it correctly.
I haven't yet contacted the people who sold me this rebuilt engine
(#$%!@), and thought I would pose this question to the discussion group:
How do I go about removing the shaft without having to split the case
without risking dropping a shim into the crankcase???
Hope you can help...
Randy
(73 std. Beetle)
MPozzi
Randy,
Make sure your on the compression stroke, not the exhaust.
You can check the rocker arms, to see if both valves are closed.
Mpozzi
Pozzi's VW Parts
Sacramento, CA
916.484.6033
Rjpa456
randy get yourself a steal ber the same thickness as the drive maybe a littel
tighter and tap it into the slot and rock the engine back and forth while
lifting on the bar. try it you might save some money. i still have the bar that
i always used.
(Rjpa456)
BOB
DesertAuto
In article <34C069DD...@netpci.com>, Randy & Yvette Reeves
<new...@netpci.com> writes:
>I haven't yet contacted the people who sold me this rebuilt engine (#$%!@),
>and thought I would pose this question to the discussion group: How do I go
>about removing the shaft without having to split the case without risking
>dropping a shim into the crankcase???
Why? The position of the drive gear isn't very important. As long as it is
close,
the distributor will still get oiled. Put the Distributor in with the motor on
#1 and
turn the distributor to match. If the Vacuum advance gets in the way, move
all
the wires over one post. The notches are for ease in alignment, they are not
important.
As far as the #3 retarded myth, check it and you will find it is not. I have
measured the shafts on each style of distributor and they are all the same.
darryl
Desert AutoHaus
16574 D Street
Victorville, CA 92392
760-243-1868
Douglas
On 20 Jan 1998 21:54:25 GMT, deser...@aol.com (DesertAuto) wrote:
That's funny, BENTLEY records that from engine # 8 788 071 the # 3
dizzy cam lobe is offset 2 dizzy degrees. I have meaasured all of mine
and the offset is there.
How did you measure your dizzy shaft?
Douglas
Dave Hall
I suggested before that a timing light on cyl. #3 should indicate 2
degrees retard if there is one. (Never tried it; not bothered to
change from stock.) It should, shouldn't it? Seems the easiest way
if so.
Dave.
--
Da...@spam.me.nothallvw.clara.co.uk
Please delete "spam.me.not" when replying!
VW Type 3 & 4 Club website: http://home.clara.net/hallvw/
See new page on finding your VW's production date.
---
Douglas wrote in message <34c53c43...@snews.zippo.com>...
Jim
Douglas wrote:
>
> I have used a timing light to check the timing of the #3 dizzy cam
> lobe. All of mine come up with #3 retarded around 3 deg.
>
> Darryl writes that he measured his dizzy shafts, and claims that this
> retard of #3 is a myth. I'm just wondering how he determined this.
>
> Douglas
>
> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:14:06 -0000, "Dave Hall"
> <da...@spam.me.nothallvw.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I suggested before that a timing light on cyl. #3 should indicate 2
> >degrees retard if there is one. (Never tried it; not bothered to
> >change from stock.) It should, shouldn't it? Seems the easiest way
> >if so.
> >Dave.
>
> >>On 20 Jan 1998 21:54:25 GMT, deser...@aol.com (DesertAuto) wrote:
> >>
> >>That's funny, BENTLEY records that from engine # 8 788 071 the # 3
> >>dizzy cam lobe is offset 2 dizzy degrees. I have meaasured all of
> >mine
> >>and the offset is there.
> >>
> >>How did you measure your dizzy shaft?
> >>
> >>Douglas
No myth. VW did, in fact, retard #3 on engines which did not have the
dog house cooler. With the advent of the dog house, #3 did not tend to
overheat.
A good way to actually see the retard is to connect the timing light to
the coil lead. You will then see two marks representing cyls #1 and #3.
You can then see exactly how much the timing differs between the two of
them.
Speedy jim
John Connolly
Douglas wrote:
>
> I have used a timing light to check the timing of the #3 dizzy cam
> lobe. All of mine come up with #3 retarded around 3 deg.
>
> Darryl writes that he measured his dizzy shafts, and claims that this
> retard of #3 is a myth. I'm just wondering how he determined this.
>
> Douglas
>
> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:14:06 -0000, "Dave Hall"
> <da...@spam.me.nothallvw.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I suggested before that a timing light on cyl. #3 should indicate 2
> >degrees retard if there is one. (Never tried it; not bothered to
> >change from stock.) It should, shouldn't it? Seems the easiest way
> >if so.
> >Dave.
>
> >Douglas wrote in message <34c53c43...@snews.zippo.com>...
> >>On 20 Jan 1998 21:54:25 GMT, deser...@aol.com (DesertAuto) wrote:
> >>
> >>That's funny, BENTLEY records that from engine # 8 788 071 the # 3
> >>dizzy cam lobe is offset 2 dizzy degrees. I have meaasured all of
> >mine
> >>and the offset is there.
> >>
> >>How did you measure your dizzy shaft?
> >>
> >>Douglas
the discussion on this NG of NO #3 retard was referring to all the 009s
from the past 20 years or so. I have measured over 100, and found NO
retard.
john
Douglas
John Connolly
Douglas wrote:
>
> If the discussion is in regard to 009s only, I missed that point. My
> apologies if this has caused any confusion.
>
> BERG claims their 009s HAVE the retard, and that others they have tested do
> not. If they (009s) were all made by BOSCH, does any one know why the
> difference?
>
> Douglas
Douglas, I know Berg claims the 009 DID have the retard, but if I
recall, that's all I remember. I don't remember them saying they STILL
had it. From what I understand the 009 did away with the retard in the
mid 70s or so. I don't see the point anyways on doghouse equipped
engines!
John
John Connolly
Douglas wrote:
>
> My '65-'66 BERG catalog lists GB 622 (009 dizzy) as having "#3 retard for VW
> engines" (page 87). Don't have a newer one to refer to.
>
> I use a 019 (without retard) on my 1600DHDP with no problems and I agree that
> with a doghouse it may not be that important.
>
> I just take exception to people spreading information as FACT, when I have
> information that proves they may be wrong.
>
Since when was my mentioning what I REMEMBER preached as FACT?! And how
can you state that reading something out of a catalog as FACT? In court
that is called heresay, and is inadmissable for obvious reasons.
I only stated that I HAVE MEASURED (myself) over 100 distributors (009s)
and none had the #3 retard. The 010s I measured DID.
And, I suppose your '65-66' catalog is supposed to be 85-86. They get
their distributors from the same place as everyone else.
How about this? Would someone who bought their 009 from BERG run your
engine at idle, and hook your timing light up. Then, measure the idle
timing of ALL FOUR CYLINDERS, and report it here. We'll settle this once
and for all. By the way, this discussion has already taken place IN
DEPTH a few months ago; perhaps you should read some of the archived
articles so we don't rehash the same BS over and over.
> Douglas
MARC TOUSSAINT
Randy & Yvette Reeves wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone...
>
> I've got a rebuilt Type 1 long block engine and am putting all the
> bolt-on stuff on. I purchased a Bosch 009 distributor. The problem is
> the distributor drive shaft appears to be misaligned. When I put
> cylinder one at TDC, the slot on top of the distributor drive shaft is
> not perpendicular to the split line in the crankcase (it's about 30
> degrees counter-clockwise of parallel with the narrow part of the slot
> at the pulley side of the engine). I'm sure cylinder one is at TDC and
> verified it by using a screwdriver inserted into the spark plug hole and
> felt the top of the piston at the very top of the compression stroke -
> The crankshaft pulley also indicates TDC . I fear that I now have to
> remove the distributor drive shaft and reposition it correctly.
>
> (#$%!@), and thought I would pose this question to the discussion group:
> How do I go about removing the shaft without having to split the case
> without risking dropping a shim into the crankcase???
>
>
> Randy
> (73 std. Beetle)
distributor in the correct place...it'll never know...just mark the
front pulley accordingly.
--
marc toussaint
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/slugbug
slugbug - parts and restoration vw parts hotline: 972.313.0085
1242 North Beltline
Irving, Tx 75061-4059
DesertAuto
In article <34c53c43...@snews.zippo.com>, dou...@praxis.net (Douglas)
writes:
>That's funny, BENTLEY records that from engine # 8 788 071 the # 3 dizzy cam
>lobe is offset 2 dizzy degrees. I have meaasured all of mine and the offset
>is there.
>How did you measure your dizzy shaft?
I looked in my Bentley manuals and didn't find that information. Which manual
and where does it state that?
I measured the shaft with a mic and each lobe measured exactly the same.
I checked about 20 that I had in a box.
I have heard people say that the #3 is retarded 3 degrees, but I have never
seen this in writing in any manuals and the distributors I checked weren't.
con...@sisna.com
You can't measure the retard with a mic. The change is in phase, not in
amplitude.
The easiest way to it install it on an engine and use a timing light,
checking each of the four cylinders. Actually, if the retard is present
it will be on the side OPPOSITE the one that is SUPPOSED to be used for
#1 (has a small notch in it where the dist cap sets on the dist body).
The reason I say this is because of the cars I have seen, at least 1/3
have the distributor installed WRONG.
Yes, it makes a difference, even when the timing is EXACTLY the same for
all 4 cylinders! If you think it doesn't, continue to believe that and be
prepared to buy another distributor in 10K miles or so.
John
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Douglas
On 25 Jan 1998 08:08:46 GMT, deser...@aol.com (DesertAuto) wrote:
>I looked in my Bentley manuals and didn't find that information. Which manual
>and where does it state that?
Check the BENTLEY '63 to '67 T2 manual. page E-9.
As John pointer out, this may have been dropped with the doghouse
engines. I cann't say for sure.
>I measured the shaft with a mic and each lobe measured exactly the same.
> I checked about 20 that I had in a box.
>
>I have heard people say that the #3 is retarded 3 degrees, but I have never
>seen this in writing in any manuals and the distributors I checked weren't.
You have to check it with a timing light or a dizzy test stand.
Douglas
DesertAuto
In article <34cfe622...@snews.zippo.com>, dou...@praxis.net (Douglas)
writes:
>
>I looked in my Bentley manuals and didn't find that information. Which
>manual
>and where does it state that?
>Check the BENTLEY '63 to '67 T2
>manual. page E-9.
>As John pointer out, this may have been dropped with the
>doghouse engines. I cann't say for sure.
That is interesting. That is the only manual I didn't check. I haven't looked
in
that one for years. I keep the later bus and all the bug books around for the
wiring diagrams and gear ratios so they were handy to check.
I wonder if this is an early bus only thing, like the gear reduction boxes.
As far as testing the shaft with a mic, it has to be possible if that is where
the
retard is. The timing is set by when the spark actually happens. This is
caused
by the points closing. The lobe on the distributor shaft is what opens and
closes
the points; therefore, the lobe dictates the timing. If the timing on 1
cylinder
were retarded, then that lobe is off set. Unless someone wants to bring up
the theory that the retard is in the cap.
John Connolly
the theory that the retard is in the cap is retarded...
:)
I would like to shake ANY man's hand that can "measure" the retard on
the distributor shaft with a mic.....
John
Like I said before, it's a phase issue, not an amplitude one...
Bruce Monson
There is no way the cap can affect the timing, only the points OPENING
affects when the spark occurs. That is why the timing advance moves the
cam for the points or the base for the points and not the cap.
--
Bruce Monson
mon...@dave-world.net