1970 VW Bug, Air cooled, Oil and Aircooling problem
Lindsey R
Hi, my friend just bought a VW bug for $1500, it is a 1970, and is in good
condition. The problem is, it has an oil leak. The oil leak is behind a
major part of the car. I am only familiar with Mopars, so I cannot describe
further. The check oil light keeps coming on, and when we check it, it is
full. In fact, I think she over filled it, because oil was streaming out the
back during our trip today, and when checked, it said it was too full. But
the check oil light was still on. so whats going on here!!??!?!? Today, we
drove it about 240 miles (we had to make a trip, and had no choice really.)
and it was running fine, but when we got home, the little tube, leading from
the air cooling system, was pulled off, and oil was burning everywhere.
Anyone who is knowledgeable enough to understand my vagueness, please
HELP!!!
--
Lindsey, Puppy, Bonita, Chi Chi Boney
"Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend, inside of a dog
its too dark to read" Groucho Marx
Remove any spam related item to reply...
MMMM Spam!
John Willis
<linds...@hotmail.com> scribbled this interesting note:
>
>Hi, my friend just bought a VW bug for $1500, it is a 1970, and is in good
>condition. The problem is, it has an oil leak. The oil leak is behind a
>major part of the car. I am only familiar with Mopars, so I cannot describe
>further. The check oil light keeps coming on, and when we check it, it is
>full. In fact, I think she over filled it, because oil was streaming out the
>back during our trip today, and when checked, it said it was too full. But
>the check oil light was still on. so whats going on here!!??!?!? Today, we
>drove it about 240 miles (we had to make a trip, and had no choice really.)
>and it was running fine, but when we got home, the little tube, leading from
>the air cooling system, was pulled off, and oil was burning everywhere.
>Anyone who is knowledgeable enough to understand my vagueness, please
>HELP!!!
Change the oil. Refill with 2 and 1/2 quarts.
If, after this, the oil light is still on, then I would suspect
over-heating. I had a similar problem a while back with our car and
the engine was filthy. A partial disassembly and a good cleaning, and
a week later the car was running and driving fine.
Remember, this is no Mopar product. This is an aircooled engine. It is
very important that all the cooling surfaces, the oil cooler, the fins
on the heads, etc. are clean so they can do their job of transferring
heat from the engine to the air.
Of course it is also possible that it is merely a tired engine that
needs to be replaced. If that is the case, look to BeetleMex for a
zero mile factory original short block for the car. It is the most
economical answer to a tired engine, and you'll get it right the first
time.
--
John Willis
Lindsey R
get to see her every 2 weeks. I just dont have enough time to work on her
engine. My dad wants to buy her a junk yard engine, tune it, make it
perfect, and then install it next time she comes down, so we won't have to
dicker with it long. Unfortunately, she is a poor 20 year old, so she cannot
afford a new engine, but we will do our best!
"John Willis" <jdwi...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:6152FD6C7D11EFAD.C965BD65...@lp.airnews.net...
Tim Rogers
"Lindsey R" <linds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HcFz9.23341$Ku.33...@news2.west.cox.net...
>
> Hi, my friend just bought a VW bug for $1500, it is a 1970, and is in good
> condition. The problem is, it has an oil leak. The oil leak is behind a
> major part of the car. I am only familiar with Mopars, so I cannot
describe
> further. The check oil light keeps coming on, and when we check it, it is
> full. In fact, I think she over filled it, because oil was streaming out
the
> back during our trip today, and when checked, it said it was too full. But
> the check oil light was still on. so whats going on here!!??!?!? Today, we
> drove it about 240 miles (we had to make a trip, and had no choice
really.)
> and it was running fine, but when we got home, the little tube, leading
from
> the air cooling system, was pulled off, and oil was burning everywhere.
> Anyone who is knowledgeable enough to understand my vagueness, please
> HELP!!!
>
>
................That "check oil light" on your friends '70 bug is a low oil
pressure warning light and isn't directly related to the amount of oil in
the engine. In your case, I suggest that you tell us where you're located so
that someone here at RAMVA can recommend a shop. Sorting out what is going
on with the information in your post would be difficult. An experienced
mechanic who knows air-cooled VW's could more accurately give you a
description of what is going on.
Lindsey R
fix the leak, and put it back together for $200, and it would take them a
few hours, I think this is a major rip off, and she cannot afford it. If
what you say about the oil pressure thing is true, then might it have a
vacuum leak, or is that another Mopar specific thing?
"Tim Rogers" <t...@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aqn8dp$bb34i$1...@ID-46866.news.dfncis.de...
Anna Rigby-Jones
back up.
Where exactly is the oil level on the dipstick? before the first line? In
the middle? after the second line?
Could you maybe try and describe where the oil is coming out?
Is it coming out behind the fan shroud? (big black thing that sits behind
the engine in front of the tar board. If so it could be an oil cooler
issues.
Is it coming out in front of the wheels or behind the whees? maybe the rear
seal is blown which could mean its coming out through the transmission.
Or if its coming from the back seal underneath the exhaust then it would be
a rear seal. I doubt that though.
I am going to say its likely oil cooler coming from a personal experience.
My suggestion to you is NEVER EVER drive your car when the oil light is on.
This is not a "check oil" light like in other cars when it comes on
something is seriously wrong.
good luck
Ps. How'd I do boys?
Anna
74 Standard Lucy
75 Super Vernon
"Lindsey R" <linds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HcFz9.23341$Ku.33...@news2.west.cox.net...
>
VWdoc1
>Hi, my friend just bought a VW bug for $1500, it is a 1970, and is in good
>condition. The problem is, it has an oil leak. The oil leak is behind a
>major part of the car. I am only familiar with Mopars, so I cannot describe
>further. The check oil light keeps coming on, and when we check it, it is
>full. In fact, I think she over filled it, because oil was streaming out the
>back during our trip today, and when checked, it said it was too full. But
>the check oil light was still on. so whats going on here!!??!?!? Today, we
>drove it about 240 miles (we had to make a trip, and had no choice really.)
>and it was running fine, but when we got home, the little tube, leading from
>the air cooling system, was pulled off, and oil was burning everywhere.
>Anyone who is knowledgeable enough to understand my vagueness, please
>HELP!!!
>--
Check the blowby and the crankcase vent that goes to the oil bath air cleaner.
Hopefully the blowby is light and the vent is clear.
Too much oil will cause the engine to try to kick it out somewhere. Either
someone added too much oil or possibly a fuel leak travelling into the engine
case. Smell the oil on the dipstick. Does it smell like gasoline?
Change the oil to the proper weight for your environment.
You also might have bad seals, either front crankshaft seal or oil cooler
seals. Remember the front of the engine is towards the front of the car.
BTW that is not a check oil light, it is a low oil pressure light. Either
change out the switch after you install the correct oil or temporarily install
a mechanical oil pressure gauge to check pressure.
I just handled a problem like this with a Fuel Injected 78 Super Conv. Someone
had plugged his crankcase vent up and oil was blowing out of the rear of the
engine and the engine could not drive his car past 55mph. He was literally
filling the oil and checking the gas. I think he used over 12 quarts to drive
400 miles to Chicago.
When he left he drove from Chicago to Alaska at almost 85 mph. I think he
might have used one quart or two during that drive home. 8-o
later,
dave
sidewinder
its not a check oil light , its a oil pressure light .
when does it come on and how long does it stay on? (could be a over heating
problem or a tired motor )
too full of oil isn't good for the engine , so maybe an oil change may be
in order ( just to get it back to the proper level ).
the only thing I've ever heard described has a little tube turned out to be
a vacuum line .
there are some great air -cooled VW clubs and VW people around . If you
could tell us what area your from some one might be able to point you in the
right direction .
sidewinder
Lindsey R
"Anna Rigby-Jones" <arig...@leavemealone.smartt.com> wrote in message
news:usu9ad...@corp.supernews.com...
> I'm going to take a stab at this one, but I'm still learning so wait for
> back up.
>
> Where exactly is the oil level on the dipstick? before the first line? In
> the middle? after the second line?
Before we drove 240 miles, it was about 3/4 inch past 2nd line.
> Could you maybe try and describe where the oil is coming out?
> Is it coming out behind the fan shroud? (big black thing that sits behind
> the engine in front of the tar board. If so it could be an oil cooler
> issues.
it is coming out in a big oozy gush under where you open the hood.
> Is it coming out in front of the wheels or behind the whees? maybe the
rear
> seal is blown which could mean its coming out through the transmission.
>
> Or if its coming from the back seal underneath the exhaust then it would
be
> a rear seal. I doubt that though.
>
> I am going to say its likely oil cooler coming from a personal experience.
>
> My suggestion to you is NEVER EVER drive your car when the oil light is
on.
> This is not a "check oil" light like in other cars when it comes on
> something is seriously wrong.
We didn't have a choice. Besides, it was running fine
> good luck
>
> Ps. How'd I do boys?
well, I am not a boy, but it sounds pretty thourough. Thanks for all the
help!
John Willis
<linds...@hotmail.com> scribbled this interesting note:
>She found a good shop that does only Bugs, and they offered to tear it down,
>fix the leak, and put it back together for $200, and it would take them a
>few hours, I think this is a major rip off, and she cannot afford it. If
>what you say about the oil pressure thing is true, then might it have a
>vacuum leak, or is that another Mopar specific thing?
The vacuum leak idea is not an Air Cooled VW problem. I agree with Tim
that there are probably a couple of different problems going on here.
And actually, $200 to remove the engine, properly diagnose and repair
the oil leak, and reinstall the engine isn't too bad of a price. But
it won't fix the oil pressure problem. This is most likely caused by
slight over heating which thins out the oil. The most likely cause of
this is a dirty engine. To remove the engine, diagnose and repair the
oil leak, and clean up the exterior of the engine, heads, and oil
cooler, reassemble the engine (as a proper cleaning will require a
silght disassembly) and reinstall it is worth far more than $200.
If you are into older Mopar products, then you know there are no
simple answers, only simple seeming questions!:~(
--
John Willis
Lindsey R
every time the light lit up. It must have dumped about a gallon, just from
the amount on the bumper, and the dribbles every where. It did not smell
like gas. I wasn't kidding when I said I am only familiar with mopars, old
ones at that (my dad and I built a 451 V8 for our 1970 Challenger, a nice
engine for our 1978 Truck, and helped with various others since I was about
3, and I just bought a '65 Dart, YAY!!!) , , so everything in your first
paragraph was Greek to me. In english please?
Thanks everyone!
Me
"VWdoc1" <vwd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021110223747...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Lindsey R
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:36:08 GMT, "Lindsey R"
> <linds...@hotmail.com> scribbled this interesting note:
>
> >She found a good shop that does only Bugs, and they offered to tear it
down,
> >fix the leak, and put it back together for $200, and it would take them a
> >few hours, I think this is a major rip off, and she cannot afford it. If
> >what you say about the oil pressure thing is true, then might it have a
> >vacuum leak, or is that another Mopar specific thing?
>
> The vacuum leak idea is not an Air Cooled VW problem. I agree with Tim
> that there are probably a couple of different problems going on here.
> And actually, $200 to remove the engine, properly diagnose and repair
> the oil leak, and reinstall the engine isn't too bad of a price. But
> it won't fix the oil pressure problem. This is most likely caused by
> slight over heating which thins out the oil. The most likely cause of
> this is a dirty engine. To remove the engine, diagnose and repair the
> oil leak, and clean up the exterior of the engine, heads, and oil
> cooler, reassemble the engine (as a proper cleaning will require a
> silght disassembly) and reinstall it is worth far more than $200.
>
> If you are into older Mopar products, then you know there are no
> simple answers, only simple seeming questions!:~(
Hehe, sad but true, We put a seal on the exhast of my dart after we bought
it, and it ran like shit, and ate the seal. so we put another on, ran like
shit, ate it again. Now it turns out I have to get a new exhaust system,
because there is a block, and I cannot put a seal on it. AHHH!!!
Anyways....
I am worried now though, her connecting thinggamagjigs, that hooked into
the air cooler, made out of that tin tubing stuff... you know lol... well,
one came unhooked, and made the engine start leaking oil. I, by my dads
suggestion, put a tie wrap around it, and wrapped it in tape (they had to
leave for a concert) But now it seems that the seal is more important there
than I had though. Her other piping thing is hooked up with nothing but a
tie wrap (I didn't do it!!!) and can be pulled off easily. Is this bad?
Lindsey R
"sidewinder" <sidewinder@work> wrote in message
news:Yo2dnWZD6oS...@comcast.com...
Dave Brower
sender/grounded wire.
Dave
"Lindsey R" <linds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HcFz9.23341$Ku.33...@news2.west.cox.net...
>
Troy '74 Baja
>there are some great air -cooled VW clubs and VW people around . If you
>could tell us what area your from some one might be able to point you in the
>right direction .
>
>sidewinder
>
Troy '74 Baja
Tim Rogers
>
> I am certain she had overfilled her oil resevoir, she put like a quart in,
> every time the light lit up.
>
>
..................sheesh!
....................She ought to consider alternate forms of transportation.
Does your area in Arizona have a mass transit system?
sidewinder
> Arizona.
Amazing.... my server really sux's tonight , I still haven't seen the reply
to the post ....
any one know about clubs and such from Arizona .
what motor does it have ( so you can tell if it has an oil cooler )
the way to find an oil leak is to first clean up has much oil has you can .
if you use one of the engine degreaser's be sure to cover up the carb,
distributor and don't spray any into the generator .....
if you put a piece of cardboard down under the motor you can get a good idea
where the leak is coming from by tracking back
sidewinder
Sam Roza
there, it sounds like the oil cooler(the thing that hides behind the big
shrowd thing on the top of the engine), has begun to leak. That will
probably cause a nice low pressure situation.
Sam
"Lindsey R" <linds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5WFz9.23648$Ku.34...@news2.west.cox.net...
Anna Rigby-Jones
It was a question directed to the ramva guys..
I hate it when they think I'm a boy too!
"Lindsey R" <linds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PKFz9.23591$Ku.34...@news2.west.cox.net...
Lindsey R
person.news:aqnbqe$bkqfe$1...@ID-46866.news.dfncis.de...
Allan Williams
OUT OF OIL PRESSURE!!!" light, so stop the engine NOW! It means either: 1)
your oil level is too low, and the oil pump is sucking air 2) the light
(sender unit, wiring) is faulty 3) the engine bearings or oil pump are worn
out and the loss of pressure is too overwhelming for the pump to keep up.
When you check the oil level, the engine should have been turned off for 5
minutes or so to let all the oil run back to the sump. It can be very easy
to overfill!
Does the light only come on after the engine is hot and you let the engine
speed down to idle? If the light only comes on at idle, it points to a few
things: Overheated (oil gets too thin), wrong oil (too thin or wrong heat
range), or worn main bearings (letting more oil out than they should)
Oh yeah, it may be a silly thing to ask... are you sure you're looking at
the oil light? There are two small rounds lights on the speedo, near the
bottom beside the flasher light. One may be green, one may be orange/red -
they both may be orange too :-) One may have Oel - that is the oil light
Otherwise the orage one should be the oil light.
The whole VW engine only holds 2.5 litres of oil (I *think* that is about
2.5 quarts also) you don't want more than thatin there!
Tell us where you live, and hopefully someone can tell you the correct oil
grade to use!
Hmmm... Hope that helps some :-)
Allan :-)
"Lindsey R" <linds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HcFz9.23341$Ku.33...@news2.west.cox.net...
VWdoc1
>so everything in your first
>paragraph was Greek to me. In english please?
Sorry about that. <g>
pressure builds up inside the engine due to the pistons moving up and down and
gas escaping past piston rings.
This pressure needs to be able to go somewhere. Either that pressure will
properly go out of the engine and "vent" into the air cleaner. Or the pressure
will try to push oil or vapors out of seals and gaskets. There is usually some
pressure present but if the pressure is too great, the cause needs to be
corrected.
Number 1. You need to check to make sure that the hose next to the oil cap is
free of obstructions.
Also check to make sure the pipes that hose fits on are also free of
obstructions.
Just My Opinion
If the oil is too full, it could cause oil pressure problems too. Oil needs to
be able to come out of the bearings, and if the oil level is covering the
crankshaft bearings, the oil pressure might be reduced.
In Other Words it is too hard to push the oil through the engine, oil pressure
could either go up or down!!
Number 2. You need to check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge, AFTER
you properly change the oil, and clean the oil strainer.
hope this helps
later,
dave
Gareth
...well maybe if you posted pictures of you in your halloween costume it would
end the confuzzlement ;-)
...Gareth
Lindsey R
"Allan Williams" <allanw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aqnm0m$1ua$5...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> Small point: That light is *not* a check oil light - it is a "YOU'VE RUN
> OUT OF OIL PRESSURE!!!" light, so stop the engine NOW! It means either: 1)
> your oil level is too low, and the oil pump is sucking air 2) the light
> (sender unit, wiring) is faulty 3) the engine bearings or oil pump are
worn
> out and the loss of pressure is too overwhelming for the pump to keep up.
>
> When you check the oil level, the engine should have been turned off for 5
> minutes or so to let all the oil run back to the sump. It can be very easy
> to overfill!
We let it cool for 10 minutes when it was normal, and 1.5 hours when it was
hot.
> Does the light only come on after the engine is hot and you let the
engine
> speed down to idle?
Yes
If the light only comes on at idle, it points to a few
> things: Overheated (oil gets too thin)
Good possibility, It overheated when the pipe came off, I will have to do an
oil change.
, wrong oil (too thin or wrong heat
> range), or worn main bearings (letting more oil out than they should)
> Oh yeah, it may be a silly thing to ask... are you sure you're looking at
> the oil light? There are two small rounds lights on the speedo, near the
> bottom beside the flasher light. One may be green, one may be orange/red -
> they both may be orange too :-) One may have Oel - that is the oil light
> Otherwise the orage one should be the oil light.
It says oil on it. I am sure.
> The whole VW engine only holds 2.5 litres of oil (I *think* that is about
> 2.5 quarts also) you don't want more than thatin there!
hehe
> Tell us where you live, and hopefully someone can tell you the correct oil
> grade to use!
The southern area of Arizona (the hot part!)
> Hmmm... Hope that helps some :-)
>
> Allan :-)
Thanks!
Olli Lammi
>
> > Where exactly is the oil level on the dipstick? before the first line? In
> > the middle? after the second line?
>
> Before we drove 240 miles, it was about 3/4 inch past 2nd line.
Way too much oil in the engine. The stick has two lines and oil level
should be between them. Lower line (near to lower end) is the minimum
level that you should ever run the engine (not recommended even
with that low oil level). Upper line is the maximum limit.
When changing the oil, you should fill up the engine to that
mark not above it. As I remember, the amount of oil between
the two lines is 0,8 litres. If overfilled, the excess oil
will come out somehow from the engine.
If the oil light comes on when idle, it might be one of the
following reasons:
* engine overheating
* worn oil pump
* leak in the oil system (e.g. oil cooler)
* falsely installed oil pump cover, too thick gasket
* somehow loose oil suction pipe inside the engine
Hope this helps.
---
Olli
Anna Rigby-Jones
"Gareth" <keld...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021111123646...@mb-mp.aol.com...
Jonathan Ip
Ok, Overfilling the crankcase is almost as bad as underfilling it.
Drain the oil after warming up the engine and refil with 2.5 Litres.
Too much oil will cause more problems with windage, the oil will foam
up and there will be insufficient oil pressure at the main
bearings/cam bearings etc. This oil leak that you're describing, is
it coming out from the area where the pulley is? the pulley that the
generator belt is attatched to. Overfilling with oil will tend to
blow oil out of this area as it doesnt have a seal (it relys on a
screw thread on the pulley which pushes oil back in when it is rotated
clockwise).
The oil pressure light coming on at idle means that oil pressure has
dropped below about ~5psi which is very dangerous, if you continue
driving like this the excessive metal to metal contact between the
bearings will take its toll, the connecting rod might weld itself to
the crankshaft journal and try to do a runner from the crankcase :)
Low oil pressure is a sign of a tired worn engine, clearances between
bearings and other wear surfaces have become excessive meaning that
oil pumped from the oil pump can easily run out from between these
surfaces, its only downhill from there. The cure is a complete
rebuild, or even better just get a new Mexican engine, everything's
new on it!
Overheating is a prevalent problem with Aircooled VW's, it is usually
because of missing cooling component parts and/or mismatched
components. An easy way to gauge the temp of the engine oil is to
touch the dipstick after warming up, if you are unable to hold it, the
engine oil is too hot. This only indicates the heat of the oil, not
of the cylinder heads which is very important. Overheating the
cylinder heads will eventually lead to exhaust valves breaking and
colliding with the piston.
Oh yeah a word about the oil light, it is quite common to have the oil
& generator lights mixed up. To make sure the oil light is wired to
the right globe, disconnect the oil pressure sender unit (it is a sort
of cone shaped object coming out the left side of the crankcase) and
if the oil pressure light is out when u turn the ignition to the first
step its wired up ok.
If the oil level goes from the top line to the bottom line after about
1000 miles then the engine is probably just ok, if it is doing this in
about 200 miles or so then you have a large clearance inside, and it
is nearing the end.
anyway good luck
Gareth
>
...the ones of Jan???....my PC is STILL not right after downloading them....lol
....Gareth
Scott H.
Oh that Jan ... she's such a tramp. :o)
--
Scott
'72 Super
Chris Perdue
>
>Oh that Jan ... she's such a tramp. :o)
>
>--
>Scott
uh-oh...now i gotsta beat ya down like a little punk ass bizatch....nobody
talks about my bitch that way....LOL....
-------------------
Chris Perdue
*All opinions are those of the author of this post*
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug"
http://hometown.aol.com/bugninva/MAINPAGE.html
to reply take your PANTS off
Jan
"Scott H." wrote:
ROFL
But cute, admit it ;-)
Jan
Lindsey R
It is worn to a nub, and April, who just bought the damn car less than a
fucking week ago is stranded 120 miles from home :-(. She needs a quick
solution, so I have created a new post! PLEASE REPLY!!! Her business is
facing DOOM, as it is home based in Tuscon, and she is here with us in
Chandler. Thanks everyone for your replies, but this is just gone too far.
sidewinder
> Ok well, It is the end of the line. The engine is worth its weight in
shit.
> It is worn to a nub, and April, who just bought the damn car less than a
> fucking week ago is stranded 120 miles from home :-(. She needs a quick
> solution, so I have created a new post! PLEASE REPLY!!! Her business is
> facing DOOM, as it is home based in Tuscon, and she is here with us in
> Chandler. Thanks everyone for your replies, but this is just gone too far.
From your description it sounds bad but from my little bit of experience
they are tuff little motors . If you can tow it back to Tucson ( tow bar ,
tow dolly , trailer , ect ) maybe these folks can help..
http://www.bapimportparts.com/
sidewinder