Air cooled VW, How Fast?
jbe...@ix.netcom.com
Anybody have an opinion/experience about what a good cruising speed is
for a VW. I have a 73 bus with a 1700cc engine. At 60 mph I turn about
3700 rpm. Can a bus sustain 4000 rpm/65 mph for long trips? How about
70 mph? Would appreciate any opinions.
Joshua Van Tol
Yes, but only if the engine is in good condition. Check the
compression, fix all oil leaks, fix any leaks in cooling system, including
all those grommets that fell out over the years, etc.. Admittedly 4000 rpm
is pretty fast, but anything below 4500 should be ok continously, but it
will shorten your engine life a bit. My '72 now has a 2.0 liter with a
later tranny, which has 7.? to one gears instead of 8.? to one in the
final drive. Makes it run about 3700 at 65 mph now. Course, mine has a
counterweighted crank now too. <grin>
Mike Lawless
> Anybody have an opinion/experience about what a good cruising speed is
> for a VW. I have a 73 bus with a 1700cc engine. At 60 mph I turn about
> 3700 rpm. Can a bus sustain 4000 rpm/65 mph for long trips? How about
> 70 mph? Would appreciate any opinions.
>
> jbe...@ix.netcom.com<<<
This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
(been there, done that)
--
Mike Lawless
Lawless Designs
rac...@valleynet.com
http://www.valleynet.com/~raceart
Joshua Van Tol
In article <raceart-0905...@fresno1-20.valleynet.com>,
rac...@valleynet.com (Mike Lawless) wrote:
> In article <4mgvhi$c...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, jbe...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > Anybody have an opinion/experience about what a good cruising speed is
> > for a VW. I have a 73 bus with a 1700cc engine. At 60 mph I turn about
> > 3700 rpm. Can a bus sustain 4000 rpm/65 mph for long trips? How about
> > 70 mph? Would appreciate any opinions.
> >
> > jbe...@ix.netcom.com<<<
>
> This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
> konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
> is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
> Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
> (been there, done that)
>
Man, the bus turns 3000 around town!! You can indeed go fast in a late
model bus. The engine is much more durable than the tin foil ones they put
in beetles. Good maintenence is a must however, as the cooling and oiling
systems don't have a lot of extra capacity. My '72 bus does just fine at
75 all day long, in the summer. Course it has a later 2.0 liter engine and
counterweighted crank, but before I reworked the engine (It didn't fail,
just wanted more power) I regularly ran it at highway speeds with no
problems. Trips to Michigan nonstop in August were no problem. Not only
that but the bus was loaded to capacity, seven people and luggage, and
camping gear. No problems.
Early busses, esp with reduction gears do have problems, as they are
less durable and the engines turn faster to boot, but late busses don't
CA
On May 09, 1996 15:35:51 in article <Re: Air cooled VW, How Fast?>,
'rac...@valleynet.com (Mike Lawless)' wrote:
>In article <4mgvhi$c...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, jbe...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
>
>> Anybody have an opinion/experience about what a good cruising speed is
>> for a VW. I have a 73 bus with a 1700cc engine. At 60 mph I turn about
>> 3700 rpm. Can a bus sustain 4000 rpm/65 mph for long trips? How about
>> 70 mph? Would appreciate any opinions.
>>
>> jbe...@ix.netcom.com<<<
>
>This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
>konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
>is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
>Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
>(been there, done that)
>
I disagree with the 3000 rpm limit Mike imposes. I have cruised for
several hours at 3000+ rpm in the springtime of western North Carolina
(road trip to the Pisgah Forest for some mountain biking). I would have to
say that you should keep it under 4000 rpm for extended runs. 4000 rpm is
ok for short periods of 10 minutes or less. When you think about it, there
is no way to drive a VW at highway speeds for any length of time with a
3000 rpm limit. The cars were geared low because of a narrow powerband and
to facilitate forced air cooling. My bug (which has larger than stock rear
tires) turns 3000 rpm at 65 mph. I usually drive in the 70-75 range on the
interstate for hours at a time.
Chris Allen
dd
Man, the bus turns 3000 around town!! You can indeed go
fast in a late
model bus. The engine is much more durable than the tin foil
ones they put
in beetles. Good maintenence is a must however, as the
cooling and oiling
systems don't have a lot of extra capacity. My '72 bus does
just fine at
75 all day long, in the summer. Course it has a later 2.0
liter engine and
counterweighted crank, but before I reworked the engine (It
didn't fail,
just wanted more power) I regularly ran it at highway speeds
with no
problems. Trips to Michigan nonstop in August were no
problem. Not only
that but the bus was loaded to capacity, seven people and
luggage, and
camping gear. No problems.
I have to agree with you, I had a '72 bus back in 1990, and
I drove that thing all over from LA down to mexico, up the
coast, etc, and I used to cruise at 70-80 mph ALL THE TIME,!
I never had 1 single problem with that one (shoulda kept
it:)
Now I've got a '68, and well , it's a whole different
animal...
Mike Lawless
> >This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
> >konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
> >is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
> >Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
> >(been there, done that)
> >
> >--
> >Mike Lawless
> >Lawless Designs
> >rac...@valleynet.com
> >http://www.valleynet.com/~raceart
> --
> I disagree with the 3000 rpm limit Mike imposes. I have cruised for
> several hours at 3000+ rpm in the springtime of western North Carolina
> (road trip to the Pisgah Forest for some mountain biking). I would have to
> say that you should keep it under 4000 rpm for extended runs. 4000 rpm is
> ok for short periods of 10 minutes or less. When you think about it, there
> is no way to drive a VW at highway speeds for any length of time with a
> 3000 rpm limit. The cars were geared low because of a narrow powerband and
> to facilitate forced air cooling. My bug (which has larger than stock rear
> tires) turns 3000 rpm at 65 mph. I usually drive in the 70-75 range on the
> interstate for hours at a time.
> Chris Allen<<<
Well, perhaps the 3000 rpm limit is a little modest, but given the engine
design and using a non-counterwieghted crank, I'd be hesitant about
pushing 4000 rpm. That seems to be about the speed at which harmonic
vibrations start to build and pounding out that center main. It may not
fail right away, but over a period of time.... Don't get me wrong here.
I'm all for buzzin' a moter for all it's worth. Used to have a drag race
Dodge with a 340 and all kinds of really expensive stuff inside that would
cruise through the traps at a little under 8500. And the engine currently
under construction is also going to able to turn high rpm. But then,
that's what I'm building it for too. Counterweighted and balanced.
David E. Nash
Mike Lawless wrote:
>
> > >This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
> > >konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
> > >is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
> > >Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
> > >(been there, done that)
>
I have never heard of the RPM "limit" on long distance bus trips.
I too have driven to the NC mountains from Charlotte (minimum of 120
miles) and have taken several road trips on the interstates. I usually
drive 65-75 mph and have had no problems.
I am planning a cross-country trip this September and if there
really is a problem with extended high rpm driving, I would like to
know more. I do not have a tach and doubt if I'll buy one just for
this. Can anyone tell me RPM at (X)MPH in 4th gear? I have a stock 78
with the 2 liter engine and manual transmission.
I just had the engine rebuilt and would hate to blow it up.
Thanks,
David
MyVWsGotMe
In article <raceart-0905...@fresno1-20.valleynet.com>,
rac...@valleynet.com (Mike Lawless) writes:
>This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
>konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
>is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
>Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
>(been there, done that)
VW engines are designed to operate at high rpm levels for
their entire life. The only limits are the 5000-5500 rpm limits
for non-counterweighted crankshafts, and the general rule of
thumb on the low side: NEVER lug the engine. It's much
easier on your engine to spin it to 5000 in third gear, than to
shift into 4th at 35 and pull from 1800 rpm. They're not built
to take the LOW revs. If you have a counterweighted crank,
you can turn as fast as your valvetrain can stand.
Realistically, any VW should be able to cruise all day at
3-4000 rpm with NO PROBLEM. If you have overheating
problems in this rpm range, something is wrong. The air
flaps are not working or you have a leaky engine compartment
seal. Maintaining the thing in the condition the factory
intended is essential to long life. Later
Rob <--- 74 Sun Bug, 66 Sunroof Bug, 71 Notchback
John Connolly
VW designed the bus and bug to have the cruising speed
and top speed as one and the same... you ain't gonna hurt
anything on your car at top speed if EVERYTHING IS THE WAY IT
IS SUPPOSED TO BE....
Like Rob said, make sure your timing, compression,
engine sealing, etc is OK..
and, a rebuilt engine is not supposed to use a used or
"rebuilt" case.. this is the source of a ton of problems...
The VW bug engine is very over designed... the piston
speeds are pretty darn slow.. even the rod ratio is
conservative..this is why you can run up to a 78mm crank with
stock , or even Porsche length rods without a problem...even
when you spin it to 7000 or so..
John
--
H. Enderton
In my '71 van (so it has the upright engine), I cruise at 3500 rpm.
This gives a speedometer reading of 63 mph; actual speed is about
60. 3500 seems to be what the engine is happiest with. Occaisonally
on a very hot day in the central valley I've had to back off to
3000 to keep the temperature gauge down.
Your milage may vary. But I've been doing this for 170,000 miles now
(ok, with an engine change at 80K).
--Herb Enderton
h...@math.ucla.edu
Bill Crick
my van is. When I first got it, the old VW mechanic I took it too
told me (after doing a little jig around my van) "don't dirve it too
fast. If you drive it 50(MPH) it will last forever. If you drive it
60 that's OK, but a lot of people try to drive them 70 or over, and they
burn them up". His other comment was true ->"people think they are a
really nice unit until they have to buy some parts for them".
I try not to drive it over 65 for any length of time, but driving
that slow hurts;-)
Bill Crick
76 Type II/IV/VII
Ottawa Canada
Joshua Van Tol
In article <319DAD...@atlanta.com>, "David E. Nash"
<dn...@atlanta.com> wrote:
> Mike Lawless wrote:
> >
> > > >This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
> > > >konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
> > > >is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
> > > >Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
> > > >(been there, done that)
> >
>
> I have never heard of the RPM "limit" on long distance bus trips.
> I too have driven to the NC mountains from Charlotte (minimum of 120
> miles) and have taken several road trips on the interstates. I usually
> drive 65-75 mph and have had no problems.
> I am planning a cross-country trip this September and if there
> really is a problem with extended high rpm driving, I would like to
> know more. I do not have a tach and doubt if I'll buy one just for
> this. Can anyone tell me RPM at (X)MPH in 4th gear? I have a stock 78
> with the 2 liter engine and manual transmission.
> I just had the engine rebuilt and would hate to blow it up.
If the motor blows up, it probably means it was built incorrectly.
Seems to me the owners manual for my '78 said the maximum and cruising
speed was like 75 or 80 mph. My '72 ran at about 4200 at 65-70 mph, never
suffered any problems. Now it's got a 2.0 liter with a later tranny, which
has lower gearing, and it runs about 3900 at 65. I am NOT worried about
blowing the engine up from going 75 mph. I am worried that I'll get blown
off the road by a strong gust of wind at this speed.
Anon.
> Mike Lawless wrote:
> >
> > > >This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
> > > >konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
> > > >is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
> > > >Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
> > > >(been there, done that)
> >
>
> I have never heard of the RPM "limit" on long distance bus trips.
> I too have driven to the NC mountains from Charlotte (minimum of 120
> miles) and have taken several road trips on the interstates. I usually
> drive 65-75 mph and have had no problems.
> I am planning a cross-country trip this September and if there
> really is a problem with extended high rpm driving, I would like to
> know more. I do not have a tach and doubt if I'll buy one just for
> this. Can anyone tell me RPM at (X)MPH in 4th gear? I have a stock 78
> with the 2 liter engine and manual transmission.
> I just had the engine rebuilt and would hate to blow it up.
>
> Thanks,
> David
I always thought the "stock" VW was meant to be driven almost
full out. If you drive too much slower on long trips, the engine is
likely to overheat. I have put 125k on mine and it is still running
great.
Access Systems
Joshua Van Tol (jjva...@cc.memphis.edu) wrote:
: In article <319DAD...@atlanta.com>, "David E. Nash"
: <dn...@atlanta.com> wrote:
: >
: > I have never heard of the RPM "limit" on long distance bus trips.
: > I too have driven to the NC mountains from Charlotte (minimum of 120
: > miles) and have taken several road trips on the interstates. I usually
: > drive 65-75 mph and have had no problems.
: Seems to me the owners manual for my '78 said the maximum and cruising
: speed was like 75 or 80 mph. My '72 ran at about 4200 at 65-70 mph, never
: suffered any problems. Now it's got a 2.0 liter with a later tranny, which
: has lower gearing, and it runs about 3900 at 65. I am NOT worried about
: blowing the engine up from going 75 mph. I am worried that I'll get blown
: off the road by a strong gust of wind at this speed.
you guys are crazy, I get my bus up to 65 and my knuckles turn white
every time a tractor trailer goes by (OK so I was actually blown off I-81
by a werner freight truck last year) I have fiddled with my tires and
suspension but I still wouldn't think of going 75 (not to mention the
state troopers who are everywhere around here)
I got a 78 with 2 liter (rebuilt in 94) and an Automatic trannny
Bob
David E. Nash
Access Systems wrote:
>
> you guys are crazy, I get my bus up to 65 and my knuckles turn white
>
> Bob
Crazy, Bob? Or devil-may-care kids hopped up on goofballs? You decide.
Meanwhile stay out of my way! I've got nothing to lose!!!!!!!
David
David E. Nash
Anon. wrote:
> > > David
> I always thought the "stock" VW was meant to be driven almost
> full out. If you drive too much slower on long trips, the engine is
> likely to overheat. I have put 125k on mine and it is still running
> great.
I've been told by a couple of mechanics that the higher rpm's get more
cooling air in and that should be good!
David
dd
"David E. Nash" <dn...@atlanta.com> wrote:
Anon. wrote:
David
I always thought the "stock" VW was meant to be
driven almost
full out. If you drive too much slower on long trips, the
engine is
likely to overheat. I have put 125k on mine and it is
still running
great.
============================
I agree, I've had busses, bugs, ghias, even a squareback and
I've never had a problem cruising at 70-75. Actually the
best one I've owned was a '72 bus (believe it or not). I
used to cruise that one all day long in excess of 75+, for
two years never had a problem untill my ex drove it with the
fan off!!
(Notice i said ex!):)
Bill Crick
dd wrote:
>
> "David E. Nash" <dn...@atlanta.com> wrote:
>
> Anon. wrote:
> David
> I always thought the "stock" VW was meant to be
> driven almost
> full out. If you drive too much slower on long trips, the
> engine is
> likely to overheat. I have put 125k on mine and it is
> still running
> great.
> ============================
> I agree, I've had busses, bugs, ghias, even a squareback and
> I've never had a problem cruising at 70-75. Actually the
> best one I've owned was a '72 bus (believe it or not). I
> used to cruise that one all day long in excess of 75+, for
> two years never had a problem untill my ex drove it with the
> fan off!!
> (Notice i said ex!):)
it on and off?
Joshua Van Tol
In article <319DAD...@atlanta.com>, "David E. Nash"
<dn...@atlanta.com> wrote:
> Mike Lawless wrote:
> >
> > > >This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
> > > >konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
> > > >is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
> > > >Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
> > > >(been there, done that)
> >
>
> I have never heard of the RPM "limit" on long distance bus trips.
> I too have driven to the NC mountains from Charlotte (minimum of 120
> miles) and have taken several road trips on the interstates. I usually
> drive 65-75 mph and have had no problems.
> I am planning a cross-country trip this September and if there
> really is a problem with extended high rpm driving, I would like to
> know more. I do not have a tach and doubt if I'll buy one just for
> this. Can anyone tell me RPM at (X)MPH in 4th gear? I have a stock 78
> with the 2 liter engine and manual transmission.
> I just had the engine rebuilt and would hate to blow it up.
>
> Thanks,
> David
I just looked in the owners manual for a '77 vw bus, and it says the
maximum and cruising speed is 75 miles per hour. There you have it.
-- Joshua Van Tol
jjva...@cc.memphis.edu
dd
Bill Crick <cr...@bnr.ca> wrote:
What do you mean "with the fan off"? WHich fan? How does one
turn it on and off?
Bill Crick
76 Type II/IV/VII
Ottawa Canada
===========================
Oops, sorry I guess I should've been more specific. She was
driving it down the highway, the cooling fan somehow came
loose (it must've made a terrible racket!)
but she just continued to drive it until it siezed. The
motor got so hot, there was smoke pouring out of the side
vents for over two hours! After that I just sold it to a
hacker...
Eric G Parkin
David E. Nash (dn...@atlanta.com) wrote:
: Mike Lawless wrote:
: >
: > > >This may be one of the biggest reason we see so many stories of busses
: > > >konking out on long road trips. Personally, I feel anything over 3000 rpm
: > > >is asking for trouble when long mileage is involved. 20-30 miles, ok.
: > > >Anything that takes several hours is inviting trouble. One mans opinion.
I have a 1981 Air Cooled Vanagon and use it to Tow a 2000lb race
car on a 750lb trailer. It averages 60mph in 4th gear and the distances
are minimal of 70miles and up to 200miles. Runs wonderfully and quite
comfortably. While it does lose power uphill it has gone up some
notoriously steep hills that has given unladen watercooled cars problems
(AND IT IS TOWING !). I find it very dependable. Roughly 100,000 miles
on it.
epa...@micro-ctrl.com -- SCCA Solo I/Hillclimbs -- Currently 1st in NE
Div Points - Solo I - Pro-Rally Class -- 1986 VW Golf -- #72
Joshua Van Tol
In article <31AAEA...@bnr.ca>, Bill Crick <cr...@bnr.ca> wrote:
> dd wrote:
> >
> > "David E. Nash" <dn...@atlanta.com> wrote:
> >
> > Anon. wrote:
> > David
> > I always thought the "stock" VW was meant to be
> > driven almost
> > full out. If you drive too much slower on long trips, the
> > engine is
> > likely to overheat. I have put 125k on mine and it is
> > still running
> > great.
> > ============================
> > I agree, I've had busses, bugs, ghias, even a squareback and
> > I've never had a problem cruising at 70-75. Actually the
> > best one I've owned was a '72 bus (believe it or not). I
> > used to cruise that one all day long in excess of 75+, for
> > two years never had a problem untill my ex drove it with the
> > fan off!!
> > (Notice i said ex!):)
> What do you mean "with the fan off"? WHich fan? How does one turn
> it on and off?
You don't turn it off. The fan is directly connected to the crank. If
it falls off you will get a hell of a vibration for a short while, and
then it becomes silent. Now you've got no cooling fan. Once this happens
you'd be lucky to get another minute down the highway before it seized.
>
> Bill Crick
> 76 Type II/IV/VII
> Ottawa Canada
--
Joshua Van Tol - jjva...@cc.memphis.edu