914 Transaxle in a bug?
Jeff Morton
I own a '70 Beetle/'59 body, it's been my toy since I started the project back in
'81 and gets driven mainly on nice days. Anyway, I feel that the gearing of a
stock transaxle doesn't make the most of the extra torque and power of the 1776cc
engine (041 heads, 110 cam, dual 40mm Dellorto's, CW crank, etc., etc.).
I've been thinking that a good winter project would be to upgrade the transaxle,
and I remember seeing an article years ago in Hot VW's on a 911 conversion. I
figure the Mega $$ for a 911 transmission would have my wife after me with a frying
pan and divorce papers, so I got to thinking about using a 914 transmission. Does
anyone know of this being done?
I think it fits the bill quite well for a number of reasons:
1) It's a 5-speed, hopefully the gear ratios are spaced more closely than
the 4-speed VW transaxle.
2) A 914 engine has comparable HP/torque characteristics to the 1776cc (I figure
my engine is making around 90-100 hp).
3) I figure this also means Porsche/VW designed the 914 transaxle to stand up
to higher horsepower, as opposed to modifying a VW transaxle.
4) Cost.
Are there any years of 914 transmissions that are better than the others?
Some of the conversion issues I'll need to answer are:
Will I need to use a nosecone mount from a Porsche, or will the VW one work?
Do I use the Porsche shift rod? Will I have to modify the shifter location?
Are there any issues with CV joints/axles bolting up?
Any wisdom/experience you wise VW gurus of the 'net can add is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jeff Morton
Issaquah, WA
RD Rick
Do you really want to go 70 mph in reverse? :)
RD
Nathan J Nagel
Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled: 22-Oct-96 914
Transaxle in a bug? by Jeff Mor...@sqi.com
project back i
> n
> '81 and gets driven mainly on nice days. Anyway, I feel that the
gearing of a
> stock transaxle doesn't make the most of the extra torque and power of
the 1776c
> c
> engine (041 heads, 110 cam, dual 40mm Dellorto's, CW crank, etc., etc.).
>
> I've been thinking that a good winter project would be to upgrade the
transaxle,
>
> and I remember seeing an article years ago in Hot VW's on a 911
conversion. I
> figure the Mega $$ for a 911 transmission would have my wife after me
with a fry
> ing
> pan and divorce papers, so I got to thinking about using a 914
transmission. Doe
> s
> anyone know of this being done?
I don't know about actually "doing it," but a 914 and similar vintage
911 tranny's are exactly the same, except the 911 and 914 r&p's are
"flopped." For a bug, you would actually need to use the 911
configuration. Thank god for stupid people who don't know what they own
(they should hang out here more often!) so you can pick up bargains like
that.
>
> I think it fits the bill quite well for a number of reasons:
>
> 1) It's a 5-speed, hopefully the gear ratios are spaced more closely than
> the 4-speed VW transaxle.
> 2) A 914 engine has comparable HP/torque characteristics to the 1776cc
(I figure
>
> my engine is making around 90-100 hp).
> 3) I figure this also means Porsche/VW designed the 914 transaxle to
stand up
> to higher horsepower, as opposed to modifying a VW transaxle.
> 4) Cost.
>
> Are there any years of 914 transmissions that are better than the others?
>
There are "side shift" and "rear shift" tranny's. The "rear shift" are
less desirable for a 914, but I would think that since your going to be
turning it around that would make it better for a bug.
> Some of the conversion issues I'll need to answer are:
>
> Will I need to use a nosecone mount from a Porsche, or will the VW one work?
> Do I use the Porsche shift rod? Will I have to modify the shifter location?
> Are there any issues with CV joints/axles bolting up?
>
> Any wisdom/experience you wise VW gurus of the 'net can add is much
appreciated.
>
>
I don't actually know about doing the conversion... you'll have to get
advice from someone else for that.
nate
Gary Helbig
One slight problem: The 914 trans turns the OTHER way.
You'll wind up with 5 reverse gears.
Yes, that can be fixed. But it would be cheaper in the long run
to start with a 911/912 transaxle.
Gary.
Jeff Morton (mor...@sqi.com) wrote:
: I own a '70 Beetle/'59 body, it's been my toy since I started the project back in
: '81 and gets driven mainly on nice days. Anyway, I feel that the gearing of a
: stock transaxle doesn't make the most of the extra torque and power of the 1776cc
: engine (041 heads, 110 cam, dual 40mm Dellorto's, CW crank, etc., etc.).
: I've been thinking that a good winter project would be to upgrade the transaxle,
: and I remember seeing an article years ago in Hot VW's on a 911 conversion. I
: figure the Mega $$ for a 911 transmission would have my wife after me with a frying
: pan and divorce papers, so I got to thinking about using a 914 transmission. Does
: anyone know of this being done?
: I think it fits the bill quite well for a number of reasons:
: 1) It's a 5-speed, hopefully the gear ratios are spaced more closely than
: the 4-speed VW transaxle.
: 2) A 914 engine has comparable HP/torque characteristics to the 1776cc (I figure
: my engine is making around 90-100 hp).
: 3) I figure this also means Porsche/VW designed the 914 transaxle to stand up
: to higher horsepower, as opposed to modifying a VW transaxle.
: 4) Cost.
: Are there any years of 914 transmissions that are better than the others?
: Some of the conversion issues I'll need to answer are:
:
: Will I need to use a nosecone mount from a Porsche, or will the VW one work?
: Do I use the Porsche shift rod? Will I have to modify the shifter location?
: Are there any issues with CV joints/axles bolting up?
: Any wisdom/experience you wise VW gurus of the 'net can add is much appreciated.
: Thanks,
: Jeff Morton
: Issaquah, WA
:
Jeff Morton
Scratch my question about the 914 transaxle, I remembered that the 914 is
mid-engine (insert sheepish grin here). Does anyone know if Berg
still offers the 5-speed conversion for the bug transaxle? Any ideas how
much it would be for a good used 911 transaxle?
vel...@netcomuk.co.uk
On 22 Oct 1996 00:10:44 GMT, mor...@sqi.com (Jeff Morton) wrote:
>I've been thinking that a good winter project would be to upgrade the transaxle,
>and I remember seeing an article years ago in Hot VW's on a 911 conversion. I
>figure the Mega $$ for a 911 transmission would have my wife after me with a frying
>pan and divorce papers, so I got to thinking about using a 914 transmission. Does
>anyone know of this being done?
>
>I
i have done this in a 1303 beetle. quite some work is involved, you
will need a complete gearbox and that includes the shift linkage. You
will have to make up some mounts for the gearbox as they do not have
any, I ended up using some engine mounts from a Renault. Remember that
you will have to have a beetle which is IRS and also will need to make
major surgery in the opening for the gearlever. All in all it was a
hard job but worth it. Remember you may have to swop some of the
ratios in the gearbox .
Fred L. Hess
jsa...@tiger.lsu.edu (John Minyard Saichuk) wrote:
>Jeff Morton (mor...@sqi.com) wrote:
>: Scratch my question about the 914 transaxle, I remembered that the 914 is
The 914 had the 901 trans. It has a Gitrog shitf patern (1st bottom
right.. reverse up top). These transmisssions are not as strong as the
later but should be enough to handle 200 horse power or less.
The next generation is the 915 trans used untill 1986 with a standard
patern. They are quite strong. I figure you'll end up spending
1500-2000 for either one of them. That should be a rebuilt coreless
price.
The next generation of 911 (carrera) trans are the G50's. They from
what I hear are basicaly bullet proof, but have a hydraulic clutch
which would make installation in a bug *quite* interesting.
YMMV on pricing these!..
>
>
> Yes, the Berg 5 is back! It's kind of pricey, as I remember. You'll
>need to check the latest Hot VW's or a Berg catalog, unless someone else
>out there knows the price.
> From what I hear, the 911 unit is very expensive, when you can
>find one. I saw an article in one of the VW mags a while back that was
>about a kit to install the 911 tranny in a bug. It seemed pretty
>straight forward. BTW, the 911 unit is heavy and hard to spin, when
>compared to a type 1 unit. Some versions are tough enough to handle 600+ HP.
>
>John
>'73 Super
Fred L. Hess | 1984 Porsche Carrera Targa
fh...@acsworld.net Key ID# 44DDDB59
For Public Key contact this URL:
http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-commands.html#extract
"the rest is silence..."
John Minyard Saichuk
Jeff Morton (mor...@sqi.com) wrote:
: Scratch my question about the 914 transaxle, I remembered that the 914 is
: mid-engine (insert sheepish grin here). Does anyone know if Berg
: still offers the 5-speed conversion for the bug transaxle? Any ideas how
: much it would be for a good used 911 transaxle?
: Thanks,
: Jeff Morton
: Issaquah, WA
Daryl Drake
I remember seeing a kit for poor man's Porsches that used a Corvair
engine and had special body parts to cover it. I think it was from Paul
Hadley Engineering in Costa Mesa, CA.
Neb79
Tee hee hee...........I was thinking how neat it would be if a 911 motor
could be crammed into a bug (I mean, cutting off the rear like a baja,
then just shaping sheet metal around it; eliminating the old engine
compartment)....with the 911 tranny. I couldn't even imagine how fun it
would be! Even having a porsche cooling fan (the turbine type, you know)
would be neat. They are sooo smooth!
Well, someday, that'll be my project; to put a 911 motor in the
back of my '69...............yea.....i'll beat that guy with the hemibug
(I've seen one in a book once, honest!) at the strip!
WOo!!!!!
I dunno about the porsche tranny....or whatever, i just wanted to put in
that little note about my porsche plan....=)
/ben
'69 beetle
'56 beetle
Jeremy Mills
I just spent the last week driving a friends '68 912. It has a really
nice 5 speed box. Under the hood appeared to be a modified type 1
engine with type IV heads. So obviously this could be a good way to
go. If you can get one of these they shift really well, although if
you used to a 73 super beetle convert the shifting pattern takes a
while to get used to.
Dr. Jeremy J. Mills
Department of Radiation Oncology
Rm 139, Environmental Safety Building, Box 3433
Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC 27710
Email: mi...@radonc.duke.edu
Temporare
Just to clear up a couple of points:
Both the "rear - shift" and the "side-shift" 914 transmissions shift at
the rear end of the transmission. The name indicates which way out of the
tail end the shift link points.
The pattern in the 914 has first gear in the lower LEFT, not the lower
right.
If you are really serious about trying this, call Doc 'n' Cy's Stuttgart
Garage in Indianapolis at (317) 634 - 5656 or (800) 950 - 0356. They're
Porsche restoration buffs and can give you all the information and parts
you need (They charge for the parts).
Also, I have a question: What's "IRS"? I see this a lot, but I don't know
what it means. Please reply by email.
Thanks,
- Rob
RD Rick
In <55852o$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> temp...@aol.com (Temporare)
writes:
>Just to clear up a couple of points:
>Both the "rear - shift" and the "side-shift" 914 transmissions shift
at>the rear end of the transmission. The name indicates which way out
of the>tail end the shift link points.
Not so. The shift rod for the side shifter comes out the lower left,
about 2/3 the way back on the transaxle. In the tail shifter, it comes
out the lower left side of the rear cover. I have both.
>
>The pattern in the 914 has first gear in the lower LEFT, not the lower
>right.
It's: R 2 4
1 3 5
It is spring loaded to 2-3; slightly stiffer springs to go to R-1.
>If you are really serious about trying this, call Doc 'n' Cy's
Stuttgart>Garage in Indianapolis at (317) 634 - 5656 or (800) 950 -
0356. They're>Porsche restoration buffs and can give you all the
information and parts>you need (They charge for the parts).
Or you could e-mail me. I have an extra side shifter for sale.
$300 outright.
RD
>
>Also, I have a question: What's "IRS"? I see this a lot, but I don't
know>what it means. Please reply by email.
Independent Rear Suspension.
RD
Jan Andersson
Temporare wrote:
>
> Just to clear up a couple of points:
>
> Both the "rear - shift" and the "side-shift" 914 transmissions shift at
> the rear end of the transmission. The name indicates which way out of the
> tail end the shift link points.
>
> right.
>
> Garage in Indianapolis at (317) 634 - 5656 or (800) 950 - 0356. They're
> Porsche restoration buffs and can give you all the information and parts
> you need (They charge for the parts).
>
> what it means. Please reply by email.
>
>
> - Rob
IRS-axle is the opposite to the swingaxle type rear axle.
The swing is a solid axle from the gearbox to the wheel.
The IRS system is more modern, it has a swivel, or a "joint"
before the wheel, so that the wheel stays straight even when
the cars ride height changes. (Camber stays the same).
The swingaxle type causes the camber angle to change along with the ride
height.
Therefore, when you lower thw rear end of a bug, the IRS axle is
better, because the wheels stay in the same position. The swingaxle type
makes the wheels to get closer to each other from the top, making the
tires wear
more on the inside.
Sorry about my english, this is the best I can do, hope you understand.
Jan
Turbo
In article <54irsu$5...@hood.sqi.com>, mor...@sqi.com (Jeff Morton) wrote:
>Scratch my question about the 914 transaxle, I remembered that the 914 is
>mid-engine (insert sheepish grin here). Does anyone know if Berg
>still offers the 5-speed conversion for the bug transaxle? Any ideas how
>much it would be for a good used 911 transaxle?
A _core_ transmission will run you anywhere from $500 to $1000. I've seen
good used ones from $750 to $2500 (!)
I'm coming into this thread a bit late, so forgive me if the following is old
hat:
A "911" transmission is really a 915-series transmission, while a "914"
transmission is really a 901-series transmission. The difference is in the
shift pattern (901 has 1st down and left). The 901 trans was actually used in
the 911 until 1971 (I think) when they went to the 915, and later the G50 with
hydraulic clutch - now that would be a setup!
A 914-901 can be used in a rear-engined application by flipping the ring and
pinion.
Thom Fitzpatrick
th...@calweb.com - http://www.calweb.com/~thom
Keeper of the Barndoor Bus Page - http://www.calweb.com/~thom/barndoor.html