Paint for Cooling Tin?
Tim Otchy
The cooling tin for my 73 Bus is all in very good condition, except
for the paint. The black in some places has worn off and some surface
rust is starting to appear. I'd like to repaint it (if for nothing else
than to stop the rust). Do you all have any recommendations for the
type of paint to use? I know that flat black is the most efficient, but
should it be enamel or what? Thank for the help, everyone...
Tim
Dave Holleran @ Nor-Cal VW's
Dave.
Veeduber
>for the paint. The black in some places has worn off and some surface
>rust is starting to appear. I'd like to repaint it (if for nothing else
>than to stop the rust). Do you all have any recommendations for the
>type of paint to use? I know that flat black is the most efficient, but
>should it be enamel or what?
-----------------------------
Tim,
Any paint of reasonable quality may be used on your tin-ware. And of any
color.
Those parts of your engine which are in contact with the OIL should be given a
THIN coat of flat black atop bare metal... but on your engine that covers only
the cylinders, valve covers, pushrod tubes and sump-plate. Regular paint does
not bond to un-etched aluminum. Magnesium alloy (ie, as on earlier model
engines) is self-etching and should also receive the flat-black treatment but
the case of the Type IV should be left as-is, as should the heads.
The easiest way to remove the old paint is to boil the parts in a solution of
trisodium phosphate, available from the paint department of any hardware store.
Once the paint has been removed, you may remove any rust by using an
industrial-grade toilet-bowl cleaner (!) containing phosphoric acid. After the
rust is gone, neutralize the acid with copious amounts of boiling water.
Once the parts are down to bare metal, inspect them carefully for cracks and
tears, repairing any found.
For the most durable paint job, use a self-etching primer. Allow it to cure
then rub it out with 0000-grade steel wool. Wipe down the primed part with
mineral spirits, allow to dry then give it two wet coats of any good enemal --
rattle-can paint works fine, if properly applied. Allow the paint to fully
cure before handling. (A 'wet coat' is a built-up layer of paint right to the
point of sagging. Allow the first coat to dry to the 'tacky' point before
laying on the second coat... which must be misted on with care.)
In the future, when you see rust developing, get after it immediately -- saves
you a lot of trouble in the long run.
-Bob Hoover
Vw67lives
don't know the cost but I imagine it can't be too high for just the engine tin.
Does anyone have experience with this process?
Fred 67 bug
di...@home.com
Very good advice from my experience.
I have had good luck painting the sheet metal with black enamel spray
can paint. As you indicate, the secret is to lay on an initial
thin/tack coat and then lay on a much heavier 2nd coat. It takes a bit
of practice to get the hang of painting with a spray can but once you
get the hang of it the results can be suprisingly good. Spray cans
work well as long as you don't have too large a surface area which
requires a real spray gun.
One additional trick I use is to bake the parts after painting. Paint
baked at 200 degrees for 30 minutes or so immediately acquires a year
or two of aging and the associated hardness as I recall. I learned
this from working on a paint line in a Chrysler factory (1953) and
from a restoration book. I used to wait until my wife went to the
store and then hang all the sheet metal parts in the oven and bake
them. I recall that I actually got a fan housing in the oven. The
process stunk the house up pretty bad but of course the VW took
precedence over the wife's objections. She finally realized this and
left me. Now I don't have to wait until she leaves the house to bake
the parts.
I hope your comments will be saved for future reference.
Phil
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Veeduber
>One additional trick I use is to bake the parts after painting. Paint
>baked at 200 degrees for 30 minutes or so immediately acquires a year
>or two of aging and the associated hardness as I recall.
Phil (and the Newsgroup),
I've previously mentioned the benefits of heat-curing the paint, but only with
regard to smaller parts. Only a few pieces of the cooling-air shrouding are
small enough to fit in a kitchen oven. I explained how to build a suitable
oven from a cardboard box (line with aluminum foil, heat with light bulbs, let
it cook... :-) but any practical advice that goes against the Conventional
Wisdoms usually gets me a screenful of flamers.
Red cars go faster, right? An oil filter makes your engine run hot, -009's
are worth at least 10 horsepower and an 'extractor' exhaust only needs to be
connected to half the cylinders to produce miraculous gains.
(Why are you laughing, Phil? Check the archives. Reality isn't welcome on
this newsgroup.)
-Bob Hoover
bill may
8) rotflmfao bill
Don Sverdrup
left on the tin, so prep and paint well after you do this.
Does trisodium phosphate have any affect on rust? This part I don't know...
Don
Veeduber wrote:
Snip
Scott Fraser
If I remember correctly, the price for powder coating a set of VW tin runs about
$150 - $200
Paint method,
1 lb box of TSP $5.00
1 bottle of drain cleaner $3.50
1 can self etching primer $6.00
2 cans of paint $8.00
Steel wool $3.00
elbow grease $0.00
--------------------
subtotal $25.50
25% fudge factor $6.38
sales tax $2.55
Total Cost $34.43
Power Coating $150.00
sales tax $12.00
Total cost $162.00
hmmmm.... Take my engine out in 5 years to work on [fill in blank] and touch up
tin (if needed). I have $127.57 still in my pocket to spend on [fill in blank
again]. I guess that $127 is for the oohs and aahs at the show when one stands
back and proclaims that all the engine tin is powder coated. But then again, think
of the oohs and aahs you can get when asked if your fine craftsmanship is powder
coated tin and you stand back and smile while you reply, "Nope, that's my backyard
paint job", kewl.
While we are talking about powder coating, did you know that the major paint
manufacturers have developed the powder coating system so that it can be used on
car bodies? If you are looking for one-ups-manship for that show time, look out.
While the system is being touted as "environmentally friendly" (minimal airborne
particles), the energy bill for the heating system should be enormous. And before
you say, yes but they cure cars now with IR systems, remember that powder coating
needs temps much higher than regular old paint.
Scott
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Veeduber
>The phosphoric acid will also remove any remaining zinc or cad plating that
>was
>left on the tin, so prep and paint well after you do this.
>Does trisodium phosphate have any affect on rust? This part I don't know...
Don,
TSP will give you nice, clean rust :-)
Early VW tin-ware had no plating of any type, neither zinc nor cadmium.
Indeed, you often find rust UNDER the original paint. I've seen cad plated
push-rod tubes on the Type IV but all of the other Type IV tin-ware I've
handled was not plated.
I've heard some of the 1500cc 'suitcase' industrial engines had galvanized
tin-ware but I've never seen one... nor any galvanized tin-ware.
-Bob Hoover
: mikey :
wrote:
>1 can self etching primer $6.00
I've always used the Rust-o-lium Professional primer since it seems to
cover more evenly...is self etching primer different/better? How
about for the body? My cars tend to stay in primer for a while...does
it seal?
Thanks
mikey
68 Beetle (IT'S ALIVE!!)
67 Kombi
61 Kombi
91 Jetta ECOdiesel
-------------------------------------------
http://belair-nsh.hypermart.net
Jan Andersson
>
> Bob,
>
> Very good advice from my experience.
>
> I have had good luck painting the sheet metal with black enamel spray
> can paint. As you indicate, the secret is to lay on an initial
> thin/tack coat and then lay on a much heavier 2nd coat.
The second coat goes on before the first one has dried completely. You
want the first one to be surface dry only,
so thet the second coat will sort of "melt into it", instead of just
being a separate second coat.
jan
di...@home.com
Sorry. Guess I should not have assumed that that the term "tack coat"
would be understood to mean that the first coat was still wet and
tacky when the second coat was applied.
Jan Andersson
>
> On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:47:10 GMT, Jan Andersson
> <jan.an...@sonera.fi> wrote:
>
> >di...@home.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Bob,
> >>
> >> Very good advice from my experience.
> >>
> >> I have had good luck painting the sheet metal with black enamel spray
> >> can paint. As you indicate, the secret is to lay on an initial
> >> thin/tack coat and then lay on a much heavier 2nd coat.
> >
> >
> >
> >The second coat goes on before the first one has dried completely. You
> >want the first one to be surface dry only,
> >so thet the second coat will sort of "melt into it", instead of just
> >being a separate second coat.
> >
> >jan
>
> Sorry. Guess I should not have assumed that that the term "tack coat"
> would be understood to mean that the first coat was still wet and
> tacky when the second coat was applied.
>
My mistake, I wasn't familiar with the term. (Guess my english
vocabulary *isn't* perfect after all..
Jan