Testing 30 vs 20w50
Joe Cali
the better then the 20w50. Same brand Castrol. It has been real hot here
in NY and at 100 f the engine oil never got hotter then 190 f after pedel
to the metal at 70 mph for an hour then getting stuck in traffic. Well that
sounds like my daily trip so it won't be hard to do again. I hope the 30w
will run cooler, well give me a week to do my tests. I know multi grade
oils drop weights after getting hot and the straight weights stay the same
so lets see.
Joe
Taylor Nelson
<NEX...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Switch up to Mobil 1's 15w50...it's a full synth and I swear by the
stuff! Can run my little 40 horse at full-bore across California with no
trouble.
-Taylor
Joe Cali
Thanks
Joe
Taylor Nelson wrote in message ...
Joe Cali
now running 40lbs vs 30lbs with the 20w-50. Going to Manhattan on Tuesday --
will let you know how it is HOT.
Joe
Joe Cali wrote in message <7olj98$99l$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
TrailByker
>the better then the 20w50. Same brand Castrol. It has been real hot here
>in NY and at 100 f the engine oil never got hotter then 190 f after pedel
>to the metal at 70 mph for an hour then getting stuck in traffic. Well that
>sounds like my daily trip so it won't be hard to do again. I hope the 30w
>will run cooler, well give me a week to do my tests. I know multi grade
>oils drop weights after getting hot and the straight weights stay the same
>so lets see.
>
Joe;
You might want to try some straight 40w oil. According to the Bently's VW
service manual, the 40w oil is good for a temp range of 70 to 100+
degrees....the 30w covers a range of 30 to 75 degrees....just my 2 cents....
Mike
'73 Std Beetle
Mike
anti-spamming: delete NOS from address
mike
winter..
I tore apart my 1776 bottem end after 20000 miles while reseating the valves... I
saw that there was no sign of lubrication failure and all bearing and cam wear
was excellent...
Valvoline.. or Penzoil pure base...just what I run succesfully..
mike
Joe Cali
after two weeks of testing the straight 30w it does runs about 10degrees
cooler on a 90f day, than the 20w 50 i was using and the oil pressure was
higher by about 5 pound on average. How much this all means I don't really
know, But running cooler and a bit higher pressure is a good thing.
Joe
mike wrote in message <37B58631...@mindspring.com>...
Dave Hall
it flows more easily through the cooler, so can cool better. Sounds as if
they may have been right.
--
Dave.
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
http://www.hallvw.clara.net/
Joe Cali <NEX...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7p5hcm$9s$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
David Pinkham
the engine? It would be really cool then. (NOT)
Dave
Dave Hall wrote in message ...
Dave Hall
> If you want oil to flow through the cooler faster, why don't you put 10W
in
> the engine? It would be really cool then. (NOT)
Maybe it would, but then it would disperse from the bearing surfaces too
easily and get hotter and result in more wear.
Do you have a better suggestion for why the 30 weight ran 10 deg F cooler
than 20-50?
I checked the Factory advice, and back in '72 they advised 40 weight for
average temperatures over 25 deg C (77 deg F). It's a compromise between
an oil that stays in the bearing gap, and one that flows enough to give out
its heat. Multigrades try to do both by stretching their operating range,
but you sacrifice something over the ideal oil for that ambient
temperature.
--
Dave.
UK VW Type 3&4 Club
http://www.hallvw.clara.net/
David Pinkham <[nospam]david....@mcleodusa.net> wrote in message
news:rrlfju...@corp.supernews.com...
Joe Cali
straight weight oils because they say the different expansion rates and
clearance of air cooled engines need the thicker longer lasting oil.
Joe
Ken wrote in message <37bb58a0....@news.mindspring.com>...
>
>Joe,
>I just found this tread on your oil test and your results are
>interesting. As mentioned, VW orginally recommended various straight
>weight oils for different air temperature ranges and then when
>multiple weight oils got better they switched to recommending the
>multiples. It sounds like a case of what is more convient for the
>owner than what is best for the engine.
>
>Ken
>
>A listing of e-mail addresses of VW enthusiasts:
>http://www.w-p-c.com/waveemailmainindex.htm
>
>RAMVA FAQ URL:
>http://members.aol.com/ramva/index.html
>
>My web site:
>http://www.nospamw-p-c.com (remove the "nospam"
>
>e-mail (nosp...@nospamw-p-c.com) (remove the "nospams"
Joe Cali
at the stated weight were as muli will drop in viscosity when hot.
Personally I believe air cooled engines were designed for straight and
seeing there were more water cooled cars, the availability of straight
weight was getting hard to find. It took VW many years even though
muligrades were around to recommend use in their cars. I living in NY have
to use a Multi in winter or it will be hell to turn over a 30 w in freezing
temps. even though I used it back in 69 with little problem But for summer
straight 30 w will be the way I am going.
Joe
SHO'N'PRV 67
>
> Interesting! I can use 30w in NY winters, no way. But I have now found
> after two weeks of testing the straight 30w it does runs about 10degrees
> cooler on a 90f day, than the 20w 50 i was using and the oil pressure was
> higher by about 5 pound on average. How much this all means I don't really
> know, But running cooler and a bit higher pressure is a good thing.
> Joe
> mike wrote in message <37B58631...@mindspring.com>...
> >I use Valvoline 50 wt here in Georgia in the summer... 30 in the coldest of
> >winter..
> >I tore apart my 1776 bottem end after 20000 miles while reseating the
> valves... I
> >saw that there was no sign of lubrication failure and all bearing and cam
> wear
> >was excellent...
> >Valvoline.. or Penzoil pure base...just what I run succesfully..
> >mike
> >
I've always ran straight 30W in my engines. Although out here in
California, I use it year round. I started out using Castrol, because
it's what was in the Ghia when I bought it. Then I later went to
Valvoline (the "turbo" stuff), then Penzoil, and then back to Castrol,
because of a 10-15 degree hotter difference, don't ask about that one, I
have no idea why it happened, but it did.
When I installed the new Berg 1776 I'm running now, I went to
Kendall, on advice of friends. Everything is good so far, but I also
converted over to T4 oil cooler :-) I can drive around town, day or
night, and never have the temp hit 180F. A 45 mile trip in 65-70 degree
weather only got the temp to just go over 180F. I will check it next
time with my Fluke Pyrometer. Berg "shorty" dipstick has never turned
the idiot light on! (Yes, it's hooked up)
--
Nelson Brum _|_ ,,,
67 Euro Ghia /___\ /___\
61 Ragtop Bug (O\\_//O) (o\ | /o)
Sunnyvale, CA u-----u u-----u
Visit Volkswagen Haven & Blitzkrieg VW's!
http://www.geocities.com/Motorcity/Pit/7658/index.html
http://www.blitzkriegvws.com/
RAMVA's FAQ index: http://www.ramva.vwmagazine.com
-"Making a mistake can be a learning experience, making the same mistake
twice is called stupidity."- Don T. Buyford
Ken
GazMP
more as guesses than facts
I would have thought that when VWs became popular, early 50s, that multigrades
either weren't available or not easily available.
Dave H said that in the 70s they recommened straight weight oils, again I'm
wondering what the science of multigrades was like then. Today companies seem
to put more research into oil products, maybe that wasn't the case 25-30 years
ago and therefore Volkswagen felt it better to recommend a monograde oil.
Gaz
To e-mail me remove the ".nospam"
Visit the RAMVA FAQ index at
http://www.ramva.vwmagazine.com
for all your aircooled VW answers
JUSA14
a 50 weight oil when hot....this would be the only point to multigrades cause
it wouldn't make sense if it was the opposite.
juan
74 bug
Joe Cali
tubes would make such a difference. I show how I did mine at my site
http://home.att.net/~NEXTGEN check out the photos of my engine. Berg and
Sharpbuilt make kits to fit the T-4 cooler to a T-1 car and it works great
on T-4 conversions. Sharpbuilt cooler kit is fiberglass , you just cut the
T-1 sheet metal off and pop rivet his on with the lower duct also.
Joe
SHO'N'PRV 67 wrote in message <37BB9CE9...@pacbell.net>...
Joe Cali
In warm weather straight weighs are the way to go. Trying to start 30 weight
on a 32 f or 0 c morning will work but it does put a strain on the battery
and starter. It will barely pour from the can. It gets much colder then
that were I live. So I go with 10w30 Castrol in the winter. I too have
found Castrol to run cooler then other oilsaaksi.
Lets look at facts.
VW designed the air cooled engines for straight weight oils. Now that
is very very important statement. They thought about tolerances.
Everything from cooling, bearing tolerances, oil pressure etc. were designed
around a stieght weight oil. Air cooled engines have much more expansion of
metals than Water cooled engines. Greater head temps. and use the oil also
as it coolant. No wonder it took VW years to recomment multi grade oils even
though it was available in the years the cars were produced. They had to be
sure mulit would work or they would have a zillion lawsuits. Straight weight
will carry heat better also. Diesels recommend straight weights also for
extreme long running engines. If you check out the requirement of diesel
vehicles the oil has much more stringent codes to be followed on each can.
Many piston air cooled aircraft engines use AERO SHELL 30. My friend
bought some for me years ago and he still uses it. Mult grades will not
hurt an air-cooled engine but I believe in hot weather the best protection
is straight weight.
Dave Hall wrote in message ...
>Castrolite 20W-30 was around then, but you won't find it now. I recall
>minus 15 deg C was the lower limit for that.
>--
>Dave.
>UK VW Type 3&4 Club
>http://www.hallvw.clara.net/
>GazMP <ga...@aol.com.nospam> wrote in message
>news:19990819045917...@ngol02.aol.com...
Dave Hall
David M. Brodbeck
> Joe,
> I just found this tread on your oil test and your results are
> interesting. As mentioned, VW orginally recommended various straight
> weight oils for different air temperature ranges and then when
> multiple weight oils got better they switched to recommending the
> multiples. It sounds like a case of what is more convient for the
> owner than what is best for the engine.
--> I think a lot depends on where you live, too. Here in Michigan we
sometimes have days where it's 45 degrees in the evening and 80 the next
day. I've seen it go from 80 degrees and sunny one day to 32 and snowing
the next. A multigrade seems like the best idea for these conditions.
If monogrades are so much better for aircooled engines, why are most
aircraft manufacturers now recommending multigrade aero oils? I can't
argue with your cooling results, but aircraft engines see wide temperature
extremes, just like my VW engine. Hot running hasn't been a problem
for me...in fact, I'm about to buy a thermostat for my engine because
with the flaps open all the time the silly thing runs too cool at night.
I'm more concerned with adequate bearing lubrication at all temperatures,
and a multigrade seems like the best way to get it.
I'm not challenging your results, just suggesting there's more than
one side to this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Brodbeck, N8SRE dmbr...@mtu.edu
finger gu...@cyberspace.org for my public key block.
"When lonely days turn to lonely nights
You take a trip to the city lights
And take the long way home..." -- Supertramp, "Take the Long Way Home"
David M. Brodbeck
> My conclusion from all of the posts and what I have read and experienced.
> In warm weather straight weighs are the way to go. Trying to start 30 weight
> on a 32 f or 0 c morning will work but it does put a strain on the battery
> and starter. It will barely pour from the can. It gets much colder then
> that were I live. So I go with 10w30 Castrol in the winter. I too have
> found Castrol to run cooler then other oilsaaksi.
--> What worries me about straight 30 in the winter isn't just the hard
cranking. When that oil's almost solid, how is it going to get to the
bearings? Having a heavy, stiff oil increases the amount of time your
engine is starved for oil on startup, I would think. If I leave the
20W50 in my engine, it takes a long time for the oil pressure light to
go off after starting it in 20 degree weather. (Don't have my chart
handy, but I think that's the very low end of the range VW recommends
20W50 for.)
Joe Cali
worry about that. But It is also more likely to produce leaks from the high
oil pressure and blow oil cooler seals.
Joe
David M. Brodbeck wrote in message <7piv79$ee3$1...@campus1.mtu.edu>...
Joe Cali
years ) use multi grade. That is many years after the original VW air cooled
engines were designed around straight weights. So maybe aircraft engines are
now designed to use multgrades. I don't think I am being one sided. Multi
grades can't hurt aircooled engine, I just believe in the warm summer months
a straigth 30 is better.
Joe
David M. Brodbeck wrote in message <7pilej$1vi$1...@campus1.mtu.edu>...
>Ken <k...@w-p-c.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>> I just found this tread on your oil test and your results are
>> interesting. As mentioned, VW orginally recommended various straight
>> weight oils for different air temperature ranges and then when
>> multiple weight oils got better they switched to recommending the
>> multiples. It sounds like a case of what is more convient for the
>> owner than what is best for the engine.
>
>--> I think a lot depends on where you live, too. Here in Michigan we
>sometimes have days where it's 45 degrees in the evening and 80 the next
>day. I've seen it go from 80 degrees and sunny one day to 32 and snowing
>the next. A multigrade seems like the best idea for these conditions.
>
>If monogrades are so much better for aircooled engines, why are most
>aircraft manufacturers now recommending multigrade aero oils? I can't
>argue with your cooling results, but aircraft engines see wide temperature
>extremes, just like my VW engine. Hot running hasn't been a problem
>for me...in fact, I'm about to buy a thermostat for my engine because
>with the flaps open all the time the silly thing runs too cool at night.
>I'm more concerned with adequate bearing lubrication at all temperatures,
>and a multigrade seems like the best way to get it.
>
>I'm not challenging your results, just suggesting there's more than
>one side to this.
>
Jim63
comments. My father agreed with you and used straight 30wt
in his cars for nearly fifty years with zero problems. I
drive my bug in the southwest in temps up to 120+ degrees.
I've always used 20W50 because that was what was
recommended by the factory for the aircooled motorcycles
I've owned. I've never had a problem with it in more than
50,000 miles now. However, I think Gene Berg tested
various oils, too, and he agreed with you. If I remember
correctly, he even ran 20wt in some of his high performance
engines.
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kevin
the winter though. have a small block chev. with 275,000
mi. on it and never tore into the engine, not even the
timing chain!
kevin
15/50 not 20/50, and it is the best oil I have ever used.
275,000 on my sbc and it only uses about a half to one
quart between 5,000 mi changes. Good Stuff!!
Wags
aircooled motors. A friend was out bajaing and knocked a hole in his case in
hundred degree weather. He of course did not have an oil sensor hooked up
and he noticed it started to ping a little so he stopped and noticed it was
smoking from the oil leaking out. He must have driven it several minutes in
hot weather with no oil in it and we tore into it and the bearings looked
great!
That commercial with the frying pan speaks volumes for this motor oil. I
also throw in a half quart of dura lube every 4th change just for good
measure.
Jeff
kevin wrote in message <01265fd0...@usw-ex0106-044.remarq.com>...