Alternative Distributors to the Bosch 009
eld...@yahoo.com
good alternatives to this unit?
- Chris
-----------------------------------------------
Eld...@yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------------
Gary Tateosian
>I am currently running a Bosch 009 distributor on my 1641cc. What are
>good alternatives to this unit?
>
>- Chris
....good is this:
http://aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGD0001&cartid=0420200431281985
..best is this:
http://aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGD0003&cartid=0420200431281985
...its price, of course, reflects the fact.
I would reccomend still, as of your previous thread getting a set of
kadrons, and a vacuum advance distributor. I would reccommend getting
both from AJ at low bugget, as he will tap the carb for use with the
disttributor, and set you up with the correct jets all for a package
price far cheaper than trying to piece things together. In general
John @ aircooled . net is "the man" to order quality parts from. I
believe, and I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong, that these are
his recurved distributors AJ is selling...but since he does not stock
kadrons, nor do the mods for the vacuum AJ is the man to go to in this
case. I'm sure others will chime in with their reccomendations as
well. =-)
..Gareth
WJ
<eld...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rvgi80tmmpntu1k81...@4ax.com...
> I am currently running a Bosch 009 distributor on my 1641cc. What are
> good alternatives to this unit?
>
According to a local VW mechanic I talked to, a lot of folks are pulling the
009s off their rigs and rebuilding stock units with vacuum advance to
install. He said there were a couple of reasons for this. First, the
quality of the 009s you can get these days doesn't match what they once
were. Second, centrifugal advance is great...if you're running throttle
wide open all the time, and for a street rig, who really does that? The
009s were originally designed to be racing distributors, but that doesn't
mean that they give better performance under any but racing conditions.
I've found tech articles on the web that said basically the same thing.
None of this is first-hand experience; only what I've been told.
Cheers,
Walt
jjs
Help me out. I'm stupid. Quote from aircoole.net's Mallory page:
(springs)
"$15.00
We have acquired the grey springs separately! The grey / grey spring combo
is the one that works best on moderate and more agressive engines! Buy
getting these, you save $15, but ONLY get the 2 grey springs to dial in your
curve (you also do not get the "advance indexing tool" (Piece of plastic),
you can do this on your own. If you want the whole kit, buy the spring kit."
Does he mean "By NOT getting these, you save $15," ? And when it says "If
you want the whole kit, buy the spring kit", he means this part, right? It's
implied that we get the springs and the 'advance indexing tool' with these
springs. Correct?
jjs
"WJ" <wa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ZednZHWR-4...@comcast.com...
>
>
> [...] The 009s were originally designed to be racing distributors, [...]
I thought they were originally developed for the ACVW utility engine (to
drive pumps, generators, etc.)
Shaggie
>
>Help me out. I'm stupid. Quote from aircoole.net's Mallory page:
>
>(springs)
>
>"$15.00
>We have acquired the grey springs separately! The grey / grey spring combo
>is the one that works best on moderate and more agressive engines! Buy
>getting these, you save $15, but ONLY get the 2 grey springs to dial in your
>curve (you also do not get the "advance indexing tool" (Piece of plastic),
>you can do this on your own. If you want the whole kit, buy the spring kit."
>
>Does he mean "By NOT getting these, you save $15," ?
I think he means by getting the grey springs separately you save $15
that you'd spend if you got the whole kit. Notice how he spelled "by"
as "buy." Subliminal suggestion. BUY it... ;-)
> And when it says "If
>you want the whole kit, buy the spring kit", he means this part, right? It's
>implied that we get the springs and the 'advance indexing tool' with these
>springs. Correct?
>
I think he means if you buy the spring kit then you spend a little
more and you also get the nifty piece of plastic that you don't need
in the first place. I could be wrong, but... Oh. Wait. What am I
saying?
:-)
"I can hammer it back into shape later."
:wq!
WJ
"jjs" <nos...@please.xxx> wrote in message
news:108ip3h...@news.supernews.com...
I'd never heard that, but it makes sense. An engine that was always run
under a constant and predictable load would hardly need a vacuum advance.
The way I heard it, the 009 types were put on the Porche race cars, where
they were running flat-out, and driver pretty much kept the throttle pedal
on the floorboard for the entire race. Again, a vacuum advance setup would
have little effect under those conditions.
Walt
jjs
"Shaggie" <m...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kspi80lh399gpdbl6...@4ax.com...
> I think he means if you buy the spring kit then you spend a little
> more and you also get the nifty piece of plastic that you don't need
> in the first place.
Okay. I get it. Here's the spring kit.
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGD0008
I'd kinda put that in the options for the dizzy as well.
Now I know what to buy... without pestering JC.
Just as soon as my tax return comes in.
Wait. I don't get returns.
--
js - "I tried self-employment but got a bad reference."
John Connolly
improvement you could make to your car even a year ago, and now they have
figured out that they are POS?
Find someone that knows what they are doing. I know I'm patting myself on
the back, but it makes me angry when guys bandwagon on someone else's work,
and I've been promoting vac/cent distributors for a long time, most of that
also enduring ridicule of those promoting the 009. They don't know why the
SVDA is better, but they want to sell it to you? Gimme a break.
we had the SVDA before anyone else, and we actually know what and WHY it
does what it does, and won't try to BS you about any of it. Furthermore, if
you aren't satisfied, we'll refund your purchase price 100% if you want, for
any reason (don't like the color, fine).
009s are fine for engines that only run at idle and full throttle, any other
condition requires some load sensing (vac advance). I guarantee you a gain
of 3-4mpg, a 15 degree drop in oil temps, a 50 degree drop in head temps
(all on the highway), and better throttle response, compared to a 009
equipped engine. The 009s will require richer jetting to not fall flat on
it's face pulling away from a light, this is one reason to go to an SVDA.
also, I should point out that some guys modifying the Kadrons are putting
the port in the wrong location (no names). The easy solution is to buy a new
throttle body (Kadron), we offer them with the port already installed so
your car isn't disabled while you are waiting for the work to get done. When
Mr. UPS/USPS shows up, you have 1 hour of work to enjoy the benefits of
SVDA. The SVDA really is one of the best upgrades you can make. The 009s is
a complete piece of junk.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
John Willis
<jo...@aircooled.net> scribbled this interesting note:
>009s are fine for engines that only run at idle and full throttle, any other
>condition requires some load sensing (vac advance). I guarantee you a gain
>of 3-4mpg, a 15 degree drop in oil temps, a 50 degree drop in head temps
>(all on the highway), and better throttle response, compared to a 009
>equipped engine. The 009s will require richer jetting to not fall flat on
>it's face pulling away from a light, this is one reason to go to an SVDA.
John,
Remember the discussion that occurred here some time ago? The results
were summarized here:
http://www.w-p-c.com/buggysdda.htm
Ever since then it has pretty much been accepted as a given, based on
empirical results, that the SVDA is superior for any kind of daily
driving.
Anyone who says otherwise is welcome to enjoy their driving
experience. Of course this includes Jan, but he has a clue about what
he is doing, unlike most all the rest of those who use a 009.
--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
Jake Raby
WJ
"John Connolly" <jo...@aircooled.net> wrote in message
news:c6ct7u$abp5s$1...@ID-61523.news.uni-berlin.de...
The guy who gave me the information I passed on...
-Is not a jackass.
-Does know what he's talking about. He has well over 35 years experience
with aricooled VWs, and in the 24 years I've know him he's never given me
advice that hasn't proved viable.
-Never, to my knowledge promoted the 009s. I don't remember ever seeing one
on one of his engines, or hanging on his wall where he stocked his parts.
-Wasn't trying to sell me a SVDA, or anything else. I asked him what was up
with the 009, and he told me. And yes, he knew why the vacuum advance was
needed. He brought up the quality issue to point out that the 009s you can
get these days often don't even work like they're supposed to, let alone
improve performance over a vacuum advance unit.
Anyway, if you feel that strongly about the 009 ("POS"), you might want to
revisit the tech section of your site, where in one article you list the 009
as an option, and in another article devoted to distributer installation,
you single it out by name in the title.
Now that we're (hopefully) done gruffing at each other, Howdy. My name's
Walt. I did read and appreciate your tech articles, and cruised the rest of
your excellent site. That nostalgia dune buggy body of yours (with the
custom tube frame and glass pan) is tugging strongly at my innards.
Cheers,
Walt
John Connolly
>
> -Is not a jackass.
> -Does know what he's talking about. He has well over 35 years experience
> with aricooled VWs, and in the 24 years I've know him he's never given me
> advice that hasn't proved viable.
> -Never, to my knowledge promoted the 009s. I don't remember ever seeing
one
> on one of his engines, or hanging on his wall where he stocked his parts.
if he's not promoting the 009, he's not a jackass. I said the guys promoting
the 009s were the jackasses, and now you are putting words in my mouth.
There have been a ton of longtime "mechanics" that the first thing they do
when the engine is out is put a 009 on it, and remove the flaps and
thermostat in the shroud. I respectfully point out that just because someone
is doing something for a long time, does not mean they know what they are
doing. They have a better CHANCE of being more right then someone with less
experience, but it's an odds thing, not an absolute.
I am kinda' tired of people who "all of a sudden discover" something that's
been staring them in the face for years. I suppose I should give them credit
for finally changing their mind (seeing the light), but what pains me is
where they tend to proclaim to the World of their new discovery like they
are the one that invented it. I have not invented it. I have often asked
what factory VWs had a 009 on them from the dealer; know how many? NONE!
Well there is one exception; some early 36hp T-2s (busses and PUs) had cent
only units. Cent only distributors are great for idle, or full throttle.
36hp in a bus will almost always be in one of those two situations, so there
was no need to be vac advance on it LOL.
Going back in RAMVA time, Ken (of Ken's Buggy Barn
http://www.w-p-c.com/buggy.htm
covered this a while ago at http://www.w-p-c.com/buggysdda.htm because he
was met with the same concern, and was interested in how it would play out.
I'll let you read the results. BTW, there are a few other good articles
there. Ken passed away several years ago, we do not know how long this site
will remain up. RIP (Ken and the site).
If I cam across as gruff I apologize. But the logic of why a 009 is
"superior" makes no sense, and this is clear if you start asking some
pointed questions, you'll quickly be brushed off or ignored (because they
don't have valid answers).
John
Aircooled.Net inc.
WJ
> > The guy who gave me the information I passed on...
> >
> > -Is not a jackass.
> > -Does know what he's talking about. He has well over 35 years
experience
> > with aricooled VWs, and in the 24 years I've know him he's never given
me
> > advice that hasn't proved viable.
> > -Never, to my knowledge promoted the 009s. I don't remember ever seeing
> one
> > on one of his engines, or hanging on his wall where he stocked his
parts.
>
> if he's not promoting the 009, he's not a jackass. I said the guys
promoting
> the 009s were the jackasses, and now you are putting words in my mouth.
Not at all. Just making a clarification. If you never said he was a
jackass, I never said you said it. <BG>
> There have been a ton of longtime "mechanics" that the first thing they do
> when the engine is out is put a 009 on it, and remove the flaps and
> thermostat in the shroud.
Ah. I remember my VW mechanic friend warning me about that one time too. I
think I was about eighteen at the time, which was a *lot* of years ago. He
also told me not to mess with the little shrouds under the cylinders.
> I respectfully point out that just because someone
> is doing something for a long time, does not mean they know what they are
> doing. They have a better CHANCE of being more right then someone with
less
> experience, but it's an odds thing, not an absolute.
>
> I am kinda' tired of people who "all of a sudden discover" something
that's
> been staring them in the face for years. I suppose I should give them
credit
> for finally changing their mind (seeing the light), but what pains me is
> where they tend to proclaim to the World of their new discovery like they
> are the one that invented it. I have not invented it. I have often asked
> what factory VWs had a 009 on them from the dealer; know how many? NONE!
> Well there is one exception; some early 36hp T-2s (busses and PUs) had
cent
> only units. Cent only distributors are great for idle, or full throttle.
> 36hp in a bus will almost always be in one of those two situations, so
there
> was no need to be vac advance on it LOL.
>
My friend brought this up too. If the notoriously frugal and efficient
German engineers went through the extra trouble to add the vacuum can (and
the thermostat, flaps, and extra engine tin) to virtually every VW they ever
sold, they surely did it for a good reason.
> Going back in RAMVA time, Ken (of Ken's Buggy Barn
> http://www.w-p-c.com/buggy.htm
> covered this a while ago at http://www.w-p-c.com/buggysdda.htm because he
> was met with the same concern, and was interested in how it would play
out.
> I'll let you read the results. BTW, there are a few other good articles
> there. Ken passed away several years ago, we do not know how long this
site
> will remain up. RIP (Ken and the site).
>
An excellent read. Someone ought to try to get permission to mirror the
site in case it goes down.
> If I cam across as gruff I apologize. But the logic of why a 009 is
> "superior" makes no sense, and this is clear if you start asking some
> pointed questions, you'll quickly be brushed off or ignored (because they
> don't have valid answers).
>
I agree totally, and so does my friend. I can understand your position and
your angst, especially if the 009 crowd have been giving you grief. Since
we appear to be in accord on this issue, and for the same reasons, I was a
little surprised that you came across gruff to me.
Cheers,
Walt
> John
> Aircooled.Net inc.
>
>
Dewey Hylton
> Find someone that knows what they are doing.
(un?)fortunately, my vw mechanic retired last year so i'm having to learn
a lot more, and some of it has been coming the hard way ... and with a
7-month-old i'm finding less time but needing to learn more.
> 009s are fine for engines that only run at idle and full throttle, any other
> condition requires some load sensing (vac advance). I guarantee you a gain
> of 3-4mpg, a 15 degree drop in oil temps, a 50 degree drop in head temps
> (all on the highway), and better throttle response, compared to a 009
> equipped engine. The 009s will require richer jetting to not fall flat on
> it's face pulling away from a light, this is one reason to go to an SVDA.
then svda is definitely the next modification i need to make - and will
order parts as soon as i'm sure about exactly what i need.
> also, I should point out that some guys modifying the Kadrons are putting
> the port in the wrong location (no names). The easy solution is to buy a new
> throttle body (Kadron), we offer them with the port already installed so
> your car isn't disabled while you are waiting for the work to get done. When
> Mr. UPS/USPS shows up, you have 1 hour of work to enjoy the benefits of
> SVDA. The SVDA really is one of the best upgrades you can make. The 009s is
> a complete piece of junk.
i don't think this is something i need to worry about, but will describe
what i (think) i have and hope someone will steer me in the right
direction:
i currently have two beetles and a puma; one 78 vert which attends
shows/parades regularly, one 67 standard daily driver and the puma is a
drive-around-having-fun car; as far as i can tell, all three have 1600dp
engines with 009 distributors (no vacuum tubing anywhere in sight). one is
easy - it has a 34pict-3 (says bocar?) - but the other two are harder to tell.
i believe they are weber progressive (single) carbs, but the closest thing
to a brand i can find stamped on them is "made in spain" ... since i don't
believe any of these are kadrons, i'm assuming i don't have to worry about
the throttle body; but because the vacuum lines are not present i have no
idea where to put them.
so looking at aircooled.net, here's what i think i need (please correct me
if i'm wrong!):
IGD0001 - ACN SVDA Distributor (2 for progressive, one for 34pict)
IGD0005 - Distributor O-ring (3)
along with (for ease of maint.):
IGN0001 - Compufire Points Replacement Kit (3)
which in turn requires (just to be sure):
IGC0001 - Bosch Ignition Coil (3)
and considering i currently have no vacuum hose, would i also require the
following:
THH0002 - Vacuum Hose, 3.5mm (3)
while i realize these questions have specific part numbers for a specific
vendor, i'm posting in the ng hoping to receive feedback from the other
outstanding (outspoken) ramva members who may (and probably will) see an
error in my judgement. given the list above and three engines to convert,
the price approaches $1k so i'd rather be told i'm about to do something
stupid than to realize or be told i have already done some thing stupid.
john's never steered me wrong before, but he certainly can't prevent me
from doing something stupid on my own!
comments? thx!
Gary Tateosian
>
>comments? thx!
>
....you may want to get 5 compufires ionstead of three.... sell two on
e-bay or keep for spares.
...Gareth
Dewey Hylton
> ....you may want to get 5 compufires ionstead of three.... sell two on
> e-bay or keep for spares.
saw that and definitely plan to, thanks for the pointer. how about the
rest? look ok?
Jan Andersson
<blushes>
Jan
Jan Andersson
> I basically hate a 009 as well, I'm glad they quit making them!
Have you *really* spent some time with them, tweaking them to better
suit your needs?
I must admit, they can never match the SVDA, but when it comes to
driveability, it can be made to work pretty well. It takes some time of
course. Flat spots? Laziness or lack of knowledge ;)
Jan
Dennis Wik
accelerator pump to the max and play with the timing as Jan suggested, I
don't have the flat spots on take off. Simple and easy to use for me.
Just my opinion of course and I know Jake and John and probibly most of
you know more than I do with the VW's but I have them on my Super, Westy
and Puma without any problems.
href="http://community.webtv.net/weewiktype1/Dens1978Puma">Den's 1978
Puma</a>
Jan Andersson
> I've had good luck with the 009 over the years. I found if I set the
> accelerator pump to the max and play with the timing as Jan suggested, I
> don't have the flat spots on take off.
This is one of the reasons the SVDA gives better mileage :)
Jan
ilambert
said"good for engines that only idle or WOT". That sounds like a drag racing
motor to me and indeed the 009 works fine in that application.On the street
it works not so good,but was all that was available for many years so it got
used and became the traditional "hot setup" stumble and all.Today there are
other choices .Stevenews:c6ct7u$abp5s$1...@ID-61523.news.uni-berlin.de...
Dennis Wik
the design....Must be my superior driving skills.
Joey Tribiani
ran around screaming and yelling:
>Hi.Sorry John,But the 009 is not a piece of junk
from a quality standpoint it *IS* a piece of junk....buy about ten of
them and compare...you will see....
JT(who runs an old *german* made 009)
John Connolly
right to have your opinion, just as I have a right to disagree with yours.
Put a timing light on a 009 (with or without a pertronix/compufire) and then
put a light on an engine with a Mallory. The "normal spark scatter" that is
present, that I used to think was just my timing light, IS NOT THE LIGHT.
The 009 does "work", but a real race car should be ashamed to have those POS
on there, when you can gain a LOT more power with a good distributor
(Mallory). If you don't intend on turning over 6k, the SVDA is the way to
go.
Perhaps looking at the situation from a different perspective would be
useful. How many people here would install a device that I promised them
1) lowered their MPG by 3-4mpg
2) caused their engine temps to go up 15F on the oil, and 50F on the heads
3) gave their car an annoying hesitation?
all for the bargain price of $50 LOL.
The response to this would be vastly different then promising the opposite
of this if you put an SVDA on there. The 009 is not a race distributor. The
only thing it's good for is engines that do not have the proper vacuum port
for SVDA or Unilite w/Vac operation. There are those that think they are
decent, but please don't kid yourself into thinking the 009 is a "good"
distributor, it IS a POS. It does provide spark, and is cheap, it is not
good, not even close.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
tunafish
works great for my 1641, no flat spots excellent fuel economy due to more
advance where it's needed. 009's are not VW designed or made, they're just
cheapo Brazillian replacement dizzys. Also, I'd recommend fitting a bigger
jet in the carb if you haven't already, the stock 1600 jet is too small for
a 1641.
--Steve
www.reservoirdubs.co.uk
----------------------------------------
Aircooled flat 4 club
South West UK
"WJ" <wa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ZednZHWR-4...@comcast.com...
>
>
Jake Raby
so many ways... all 5 of my aircooled daily drivers has one. The one
in my 912E has went 50K and still has the same dizzy cap installed...
Timing was sety on the dyno and still exactly where I put it almost 2
years ago with zero wrenching on it.
Anthony
dizzy from him to put on my '73 1600 DP with 34 pict. That engine
should be using a vacuum advance dizzy, there's nothing else to it.
There's no other way I can get rid of the flat spot when I put my foot
down, or when I shift to second. THe only way is to have the
distributor KNOW, ie sense the extra vacuum, as soon as my foot goes
down. The 009 was invented for industrial VW engines that run at over
3000 RPM all day long. Now if you drive on the freeway all day, and
almost never do any stop and go, the 009 might be your ticket. I,
personally, am sick of the 009 and its annoying quirks.
I've heard it all here: You're timing it wrong, take off a spring,
blah blah blah. I've messed with that damn thing for HOURS, and at
the altitude I live at (mile high) it simply will not work WELL. I've
gotten it damn close, as it is now, but there will always be a
hesitation shifting into second gear. It somewhat goes away when the
car is warm, but is still there to some extent. The SVDA (or so I've
heard) is just much much more drivable. I guess I'll see, but
anything will be better than the double-oh-not-fine that's on there
now.
~Anthony
"John Connolly" <jo...@aircooled.net> wrote in message news:<c6h6jk$bap04$1...@ID-61523.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Dennis Wik
that I have without original carbs? I have webers on the puma, dual
carbs on the westy and I'm putting a progressive 2bl on my bug.. What
distributor without using one half vacuum pressure or costing an arm and
leg would be right in your opinion. I had thought if I wanted to spend
unlimited amounts of bucks, I would look into Jacobs. Jake, I know you
build great motors and some using the aluminum cases. Do you have an
affordable solution. John, which do you use? or would you use on an
engine without the proper manifold vacuum pressure available for a
distributor. The only affordable product that I have found to do the
job is the 009 and I do make it work ok.....Not perfect but affordable
and alright. Dennis
jjs
"Dennis Wik" <weewi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8846-408...@storefull-3192.bay.webtv.net...
> [...]
> John, which do you use? or would you use on an
> engine without the proper manifold vacuum pressure available for a
> distributor. The only affordable product that I have found to do the
> job is the 009 and I do make it work ok.....Not perfect but affordable
> and alright. Dennis
Me John? I use the 009, but I'd like to buy a Mallory. I just need to know
exactly which one to get for the 2165. Nobody ever answered my question
regarding the best dizzy, coil, etc for that engine so I'll buy from CP1
because at least they don't even pretend to give a shit.
John Connolly
you post, you shouldn't act like they are @$$holes for not answering you. If
you e-mailed us directly and didn't get an answer, it's because we never got
the e-mail. Contrary to popular opinion, e-mail IS NOT PERFECT.
Try again.
Buying from a company that doesn't give a $#!^ isn't helping things any, it
just allows them to prosper despite doing their best to lose your business,
and you lose in the long run.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
--
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"jjs" <nos...@please.xxx> wrote in message
news:108r08o...@news.supernews.com...
Joey Tribiani
<jo...@aircooled.net> ran around screaming and yelling:
>did you ask us directly? Nobody on RAMVA OWES you an answer to any question
>you post, you shouldn't act like they are @$$holes for not answering you.
sometimes they come off worse when they *do* answer...
JT
John Connolly
directly. I have WAY to many irons in the fire to keep tabs on all the
Internet forums where people may be "innocently asking me a question then
getting pissed off when I do not answer". I try my best, but it's just
impossible.
I don't think it is fair that a company that has not answered anything is
getting better grades then someone that is at least trying.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
jjs
<jo...@aircooled.net> wrote:
> did you ask us directly? Nobody on RAMVA OWES you an answer to any question
> you post, you shouldn't act like they are @$$holes for not answering you. If
> you e-mailed us directly and didn't get an answer, it's because we never got
> the e-mail. Contrary to popular opinion, e-mail IS NOT PERFECT.
>
> Try again.
Nobody owes me nothing and I like it that way. Where are you coming from
all of a sudden out of nowhere? It kind of shows you have been reading and
waffling off, no? Anyway, I wasn't talking to you. And if you want to talk
about Assholes, be it known that I own the friggin trademark.
I'll try again somewhere else. You have enough of my money anyway.
John Connolly
is uncalled for. If he/they e-mail me privately and I don't answer, they MAY
have a valid complaint, but not if it's not answered in a public forum,
where information is "offerred". If you feel it's ok to demand someone help
you people are going to take offense, that's all I'm saying.
I'll be happy to help if you e-mail me directly, I do not have time to wade
thru dozens of RAMVA posts to find your question to help you out.
Like it or not, that's the way it is. I'm sorry you feel I have slighted
you, but it's not personal.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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"jjs" <jo...@xyzzy.stafford.net> wrote in message
news:john-26040...@m-0-135.docsis.hbci.com...
John Connolly
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"jjs" <jo...@xyzzy.stafford.net> wrote in message
news:john-26040...@m-0-135.docsis.hbci.com...
jjs
<jo...@aircooled.net> wrote:
> I'm just saying that someone attacking me for not answering their question
> is uncalled for.
Nobody attacked you, John. Is your imagination running away from you?
Nobody mentioned your name or company. You picked up the out-of-court
ball. You weren't a player, and now you own the ball. Did you notice that
it bounced in dog shit?
Joe Cali Next Generation-usa
Guys I have been using 009's since 1969 when they were a Porsche part.
Aways up grading it, better points, then the Pertronix then added to
the ignitor I put the Jacobs Bug Pak on. I have a 2.0 Type 4 in my
bug and after all that I thought that was all I was going to get out
of my engine. WRONG!!! Jake kept telling me to get a Mallory Unilite
and I was not going to spring for the $250. By luck I got a new one
on EBAY for $60. I put it in last week and I was amazed. With the
Jacobs I feel like I went Fuel Injection. Much smoother and power
throughout the range. I also installed the gray springs. The dizzy
is a monster. When I told my muscle car friends they said that is the
only dizzy they use. The differce between the 009 and the Mallory
beside it being much better made is it not only can be adjusted at
3500 for advance but also at idle, so you can get max power and
torque throughout the range. I guess it is like a cheap watch vs. a
Rolex, yep they both tell the time!!
Joe Cali - www.nextgen-usa.com
Dennis Wik
now anyway. Thanks for the input .
Jan Andersson
> And if you want to talk
> about Assholes, be it known that I own the friggin trademark.
Damn offshore knock-offs.....
;)
Jan
jjs
"Jan Andersson" <bugfuel...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6lsls$dcetv$3...@ID-72729.news.uni-berlin.de...
Hey, you own the Swedish Meat Balls trademark. What more do you want?
jjs
> PS: You came across as angry towards ME, that's why I reacted the way I
did
Aw hell, John. I always sound crabby. It's nothing personal.
Jan Andersson
I so do not! Where do you get Sweden from? All I got from Sweden was my
name :)
Jan
Thomas Malmevik
Oh no he Don't. He's Finnish for pissake. Now I am swedish, so
I'll claim that TM for me self. Yasuryubetcha....*8-}
--
the Grokdoc
Tom Malmevik
all that groks is god
67 Baja "marti"
jjs
news:Pine.A41.4.58.04...@aagaard05.u.washington.edu...
> > Hey, you own the Swedish Meat Balls trademark. What more do you want?
>
> Oh no he Don't. He's Finnish for pissake.
Finnish! Oh yeah. I knew that. Sure I did.
> Now I am swedish, so
> I'll claim that TM for me self. Yasuryubetcha....*8-}
Yer a Minnesotan. You got the trademark on them leetle balls that come from
the swimming holes ya cut in the ice.
John Connolly
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
"Thomas Malmevik" <malm...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.A41.4.58.04...@aagaard05.u.washington.edu...
Dewey Hylton
> <eld...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:rvgi80tmmpntu1k81...@4ax.com...
>> I am currently running a Bosch 009 distributor on my 1641cc. What are
>> good alternatives to this unit?
>
> According to a local VW mechanic I talked to, a lot of folks are pulling the
> 009s off their rigs and rebuilding stock units with vacuum advance to
> install. He said there were a couple of reasons for this. First, the
> quality of the 009s you can get these days doesn't match what they once
> were. Second, centrifugal advance is great...if you're running throttle
> wide open all the time, and for a street rig, who really does that? The
> 009s were originally designed to be racing distributors, but that doesn't
> mean that they give better performance under any but racing conditions.
> I've found tech articles on the web that said basically the same thing.
i just talked to my mechanic (vw mechanic, recently retired) and got
another story altogether - so now i'm conflicted ... here's what he had to
say:
the newer vacuum advance distributors advance too much and make the engine
run hot, so they can't be used. the older ('70 and back) are okay and can
be used.
this appears to contradict most of what has been said about these
distributors, at least in this thread ...
i'm using weber progressive carb/009 combos on two of my beetles. is the
situation he's referring to possibly applicable to the webers?
i haven't yet been able to test the vacuum port (if there is on) on the weber
because i'm not sure where i should be looking. i've been googling for
pictures/descriptions but haven't found what i'm looking for yet. that's
why i called my mechanic - to find out what he knew about the vacuum port.
and that's when he said i couldn't use the vacuum-advance distributors.
from the pictures i've seen i appear to have a dfev; can anyone comment on
my mechanic's statement? can anyone tell me where to look for the vacuum
port?
John Connolly
0-3 ports. The one you want has 0 vacuum at idle and above 1/2 throttle, but
will give you a signal from off-idle to 1/2 throttle.
The newest ones HAVE the port, if you have an older progressive you may be
SOL
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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"Dewey Hylton" <j...@shmoe.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.27....@shmoe.org...
Dewey Hylton
> Get a vacuum gauge. Plug it into a port on the carb. There are anywhere from
> 0-3 ports. The one you want has 0 vacuum at idle and above 1/2 throttle, but
> will give you a signal from off-idle to 1/2 throttle.
>
> The newest ones HAVE the port, if you have an older progressive you may be
> SOL
>
> John
> Aircooled.Net Inc.
got the guage sunday, just haven't found where to plug it in ...
earlier you said there'd probably be some kind of rubber plug currently
in the vacuum port. i haven't found anything like that yet. can you or
anyone else possibly tell me where on the carb i should be looking? or
point me to related documentation? thx for all the help so far.
Dewey Hylton
ah-hah! 32 36 DFAV. it's a wonder what a really bright light can bring
out. that and a solvent-soaked rag ...
now to continue my search for docs that show where these ports might be ...
John Connolly
port.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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"Dewey Hylton" <j...@shmoe.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.27....@shmoe.org...
David Gravereaux
Directly above the idle volume screw there should be a brass "port". As
John says, it's probably covered with a rubber plug, or in the case of a
weber IDF, has a brass screw in the end of it.
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/typical_dgv_carb_install_views.htm
Notice "vacuum advance port" and also notice it's a DGV (mirror image to a
DFV)
http://www.redlineweber.com/doc/hi-res_parts_diag/32-36dfv.doc
The port is near part# 70 which is the back-side of the carb when
installed on the standard manifolds for a T1.
--
David Gravereaux <davy...@pobox.com>
[species: human; planet: earth,milkyway(western spiral arm),alpha sector]
Dewey Hylton
>>now to continue my search for docs that show where these ports might be ...
>
> Directly above the idle volume screw there should be a brass "port". As
> John says, it's probably covered with a rubber plug, or in the case of a
> weber IDF, has a brass screw in the end of it.
>
> http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/typical_dgv_carb_install_views.htm
> Notice "vacuum advance port" and also notice it's a DGV (mirror image to a
> DFV)
ahh, now /this/ is what i've been looking for! i've been staring at the
exploded view of the dfev and basically not getting anywhere.
> http://www.redlineweber.com/doc/hi-res_parts_diag/32-36dfv.doc The port
> is near part# 70 which is the back-side of the carb when installed on
> the standard manifolds for a T1.
ahem ... no wonder i haven't found it; my big head simply doesn't fit
between the carb and the fan shroud. guess i have to find some kind of a
mirror or something.
thanks so much for this information!
David Gravereaux
>i'm using weber progressive carb/009 combos on two of my beetles. is the
>situation he's referring to possibly applicable to the webers?
Same combo for me.
Just swapped the 009 for a mallory unilite w/vac in my 1600 tonight.
WOW! Look Ma, no bog.. very smooth now. I still need to spend time
tuning it. I got the spring kit, and as it came there's too much
centrifugal advance for my setup. You can even tune the limit on the
vacuum advance.
David Gravereaux
>Dewey Hylton <j...@shmoe.org> wrote:
>
>>i'm using weber progressive carb/009 combos on two of my beetles. is the
>>situation he's referring to possibly applicable to the webers?
>
>Same combo for me.
>
>Just swapped the 009 for a mallory unilite w/vac in my 1600 tonight.
>
>WOW! Look Ma, no bog.. very smooth now. I still need to spend time
>tuning it. I got the spring kit, and as it came there's too much
>centrifugal advance for my setup. You can even tune the limit on the
>vacuum advance.
If this helps anyone, this is my setup so far. I was playing with it
today. Exhaust is merged headers with dual quiet pac mufflers. Stock
1600 on the inside (no cam, piston, stroke or head mods) for this engine.
DFEV:
#60 primary idle jet
Mallory #4754101:
pink/grey centrifugal springs
advance limit set @ 18 degrees
vacuum limit open all the way
initial advance @ 14 degrees.
The bog is nearly gone. Some people have said that the long runner length
of the manifold is the big factor in the DFEV bog problem. Weber doesn't
make a larger accelerator pump jet than the #50 it came with, supposedly.
Low-end torque just off the clutch is still a problem for me and even with
the all the quick advance from the light pink/grey combo, its on the edge
of pinging doing a hill start.
NEED LARGER ACCERATOR PUMP JET ;) I want to drop to a #55 pri. idle jet,
but all the bog comes back. O2 sensor says the steady state mixture is
rich in the primary jet range, yet, opening the throttle, it leans out
(THE BOG!).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I need more accelerator pump action, yes?
Joey Tribiani
<davy...@pobox.com> ran around screaming and yelling:
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I need more accelerator pump action, yes?
>--
sounds that way..if they don't make the jet, get some jet drills and
make it yourself....
JT
jjs
<davy...@pobox.com> wrote:
> DFEV [...]
Are you running this?
http://www.aircooled.net/images/pphotos/fsk0002.gif
On what size engine?
Goooood luck. If you got it from aircooled.net, ask John C. Frankly, I
don't think they work worth a damn except at high RPM and WFO. But maybe
someone can show me a streetable stocker running this carb ... and getting
good mileage.
David Gravereaux
>In article <6h58901utu8fnkoou...@4ax.com>, David Gravereaux
><davy...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> DFEV [...]
>
>Are you running this?
>http://www.aircooled.net/images/pphotos/fsk0002.gif
Yes, and NO. That photo is wrong, but the description for it is what I
have.
http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/intake/43-0622-1.gif
>On what size engine?
1600cc, bone stock innards.
>Goooood luck. If you got it from aircooled.net, ask John C. Frankly, I
>don't think they work worth a damn except at high RPM and WFO. But maybe
>someone can show me a streetable stocker running this carb ... and getting
>good mileage.
I'm tossing the engine in a couple weeks anyways. I gave up on it 6
months ago for the oil pressure (lack of) problems the case has. I'm not
going to rebuild it again.
In the meantime, I still like tinkering around with it just as an
experiment.
jjs
<davy...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >Are you running this?
> >http://www.aircooled.net/images/pphotos/fsk0002.gif
>
> Yes, and NO. That photo is wrong, but the description for it is what I
> have.
Okay, different carbs.
> http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/intake/43-0622-1.gif
That's trouble.
> In the meantime, I still like tinkering around with it just as an
> experiment.
Exerimenting is good. Best of luck. Seriously.
John Connolly
(3-3.5psi). If the float level is too low (too large a #) it will also do
this.
95% of weber "jetting problems" are due to the wrong float level and/or fuel
pressure. you MUST do these 2 before touching the jets.
john
Aircooled.Net Inc.
"David Gravereaux" <davy...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:6h58901utu8fnkoou...@4ax.com...
David Gravereaux
>Before you bump the pump jet, check the float level and fuel pressure
>(3-3.5psi). If the float level is too low (too large a #) it will also do
>this.
Pressure should be good, although I'm assuming it. I never did find an
accurate 1/8" NPT mini pressure gauge. Those 15 psi ones are way off
down @ 3. The pump is a carter 3.5 psi electric rotary.
>95% of weber "jetting problems" are due to the wrong float level and/or fuel
>pressure. you MUST do these 2 before touching the jets.
I never did check the float level.. "weber tech manual" says 41mm from
upper surface cover with 10mm more hang (stroke). I'll check it tomorrow.
Thanks John.
John Connolly
$19.95. Buy it and keep it in the toolbox, it's the same one I use. More
then 3.5psi and you are wasting your time with weber tuning; aim for
3-3.5psi. I have seen the stock pump put out 13psi.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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"David Gravereaux" <davy...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mv8990tcv4uvq66ov...@4ax.com...
David Gravereaux
>Sears sells a combo vac/pressure gauge that you T into the fuel line, for
>$19.95. Buy it and keep it in the toolbox, it's the same one I use. More
>then 3.5psi and you are wasting your time with weber tuning; aim for
>3-3.5psi. I have seen the stock pump put out 13psi.
I checked the float level and was a perfect 41mm. Fuel pressure is
unknown, I'll get a gauge. Assuming the 3.5psi carter pump is putting out
3.5psi is not a bad assumption for the moment.
I swapped the #137 primary main jet for a #132 as I knew it was rich on
the main jet. My o2 sensor needs replacing, it stopped working a few
weeks ago, so I can't verify the jet change.
The dark side took over me and I drilled the accel jet out a bit. It's a
#55, and from what I remember means a 0.55mm opening. Its just wee bit
larger now. I didn't go crazy on it.
I'm still messing with timing (springs and vac limit), and I'm getting
closer to perfect. I'll try the grey/grey springs next.
John Connolly
John
David Gravereaux
>what is the idle timing?
>
>John
>
today.. it's @ 4 degrees idle, peaks to 30. vacuum bottle adds another
15 degrees.