Super Beetle Shimmy Problem
Rick Barber
Maybe someone can tell me what I'm missing
I bought a '72 Super Beetle that wouldn't stay between the ditches. The
lower control arm bushings were shot so I pressed them out and put new ones
in. Then I pulled the shimmy damper and checked resistance, that seemed
normal. (I've had about 9 standard Beetles over the last 20 years, but this
is my first Super.) Anyhow, I then I took it to a front end shop and he
verified that the tie rod ends were in good shape, and set the toe-in and
the camber, which I wasn't sure about after removing and replacing the
control arms. Then I had the tires balanced. It still shimmied, so I had
the tires spin balanced on the vehicle. I still drive it daily, and it is
tolerable, but it still has a shimmy around 45 mph.
A few months later, I bought another Super Beetle, a '74 this time, and here
we go again. This one is worse than the the other one. Am I correct in
guessing that this an added feature on all Super Beetles???
If anybody has found a cure for this malady I would be most grateful for a
clue.
Thanks in advance.
Rick
MARC TOUSSAINT
Ric
> Rick
$Rick,
here we go again with the most common complaint about the Supers...what
happens most often is the shock towers weaken and tilt inwards a tiny
bit. If you take a body jack and move them back to where they are
supposed to be, you will be amazed. Voila! no shakes. I have the spec
somewhere and I will hunt it up and post it soon. As strange as it may
seem, I have known of swapping the front tires around and the shimmy
going away. It's some kind of magic when it does. Then the Supers
handle so very much better than the standards on the road. Good luck!
--
marc toussaint
slugbug - parts and restoration vw parts hotline: 972.313.0085
1119 Luke Street #113
Irving, Tx 75061-4059
Joe Bento
Rick Barber <raba...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>If anybody has found a cure for this malady I would be most grateful for a
>clue.
>
It can be cured, though I don't know all the checks. My '75 Super
used to shake pretty violently at speeds above 60. New tires and new
ball joints cured it completely! Now there is just an ever so barely
shimmy that you can scarcely feel at speeds above 70... No more
really than any modern car.
-Joe
_______________________________________________________
There is a road, no simple highway
Between the dawn and the dark of night
And if you go, no one may follow
That path is for your steps alone
Hunter/Garcia
Dave Elkins
My super beetle still shimmy after I replaced the control arm bushings.
I jacked up the front end and shook the tires back and forth; the tie rod ends had a lot of play
I replaced the ends and the shimmy was solved!
>If anybody has found a cure for this malady I would be most grateful for a
>clue.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Rick
Rick Barber
John, Dave, & Marc
I really appreciate the replies, (and John and Marc for the E-mail).
The tie rod ends and ball joints seem like they are fairly tight, and the
dude who did the alignment seemed to agree. I took it to an independent
where I had work done on my motor home. If it comes to replacing those, I
will invest in a pickle fork. (been there, done that, and you're right, it's
painful without one.)
On your suggestion Marc, about the shock tower spacing would be the next
easiest and cheapest thing to try. If you can get me the dimensions and the
measuring points, I'll give it a shot.
(In case I get any more suggestions and I seem to have vanished, we are
moving this week-end for about 5 months, starting this evening. Hope to be
settled in by Sunday afternoon.)
Once again thanks
Rick (WB5PDD)
sparrow
Mark,
I would like that info too. Big shimmy cured w/ new control arm bushing
but still some minor vibration.
Cary
71 SB Convertible
BfloBirds
My "72 Super Beetle is a two owner 60,000 mile vehicle that required front
end work when I acquired it because it sat for 5 years, and wasn't
maintained by the original owner as it should have. I've installed new
steering damper, new tie rod ends, new ball joints and new struts over a
13 year period and two front end alignments.. It never shook or shimmied
at any time. I replaced the wheels EMPI 8 spoke wheels and Kleber radial
tires all spun balanced. It continued to drive smoothly until two years
ago when I took it out of winter storage. ( As a part of the winter
storage ritual, I over inflate all four tires to 32 PSI, and move the car
forwards or backwards in the garage on a monthly basis). The front end
shook at 42-45 mph. I had the front tires spun balanced, but the problem
remained. The solution: I replaced the Kleber tires with new Cooper sport
radials, and the problem went away. It appears that the either the tires
developed flat spots during the winter, or overflating for winter storage
is a bad idea. Winter storage now includes putting the car on jack stands
with the tires off.
Greg Fetner
Supers had strut frontends that weakend w/time... Dad was a service
writer and later manager for VW dealer from '55 to '73. Many
customers complained of the "shimmy". Dad said that weight (bag of
sand, cement blocks) in front helped some/most of the new car
complaints... However, dealing with 25+ yearold cars, we must always
check for worn/damaged frontend parts and bent wheels/bad tires first.
...if the strut tower dims are avial I'll try to develop us a "tower
brace"...
The later supers had rack/pinion (my '77 has it and handles like a go
kart).
Greg Fetner
Steve Carter
Rick Barber wrote:
>
> Maybe someone can tell me what I'm missing
>
> I bought a '72 Super Beetle that wouldn't stay between the ditches. The
> lower control arm bushings were shot so I pressed them out and put new ones
> in. Then I pulled the shimmy damper and checked resistance, that seemed
> normal. (I've had about 9 standard Beetles over the last 20 years, but this
> is my first Super.) Anyhow, I then I took it to a front end shop and he
> verified that the tie rod ends were in good shape, and set the toe-in and
> the camber, which I wasn't sure about after removing and replacing the
> control arms. Then I had the tires balanced. It still shimmied, so I had
> the tires spin balanced on the vehicle. I still drive it daily, and it is
> tolerable, but it still has a shimmy around 45 mph.
>
> A few months later, I bought another Super Beetle, a '74 this time, and here
> we go again. This one is worse than the the other one. Am I correct in
> guessing that this an added feature on all Super Beetles???
>
> If anybody has found a cure for this malady I would be most grateful for a
> clue.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rick
I have had a 72 super bug since it was 6 momths old and i have been
through it all, you should also replace the sway bar bushes in the
control arm and on the frame head. Make sure your shocks are OK as well.
Regards Steve Carter
http://www.aic.net.au/~clveedub/index.html
FEW627
I have '74 super beetle had a shimmy problem also. The tires were
mixed biased and radial. surely you checked that? also does it have the
shock absorber type thing on the control arm? I had
another bout with shimmy but changed the tie rod ends cured that. works
fine now.
Rick Barber
In article <19970416001...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
few...@aol.com (FEW627) wrote:
-----------------------
'fraid so,
On the '72 the tires are all the same brand and type, and before I went to
buy the car sight-unseen, the seller mentioned shimmy, so I stopped by and
bought a new shimmy damper before I went to get it. When I got there and
removed the old one, it felt no different from the new one, so I put the old
one back on. The '72 is really tolerable now, very slight shimmy at about
45 mph. I commute about 75-80 miles round trip per day in it now since we
moved last week-end.
Now I gotta get to work on the '74. Have gotten a lot of help from this
group.....Thanks again to all who have contributed.
Rick
Dave Keyser
Had a similar shimmy problem with my '75 super 'vert. After going
through the whole balancing routine and checking the suspension
components, closer inspection revealed the Firestone tires were
out-of-round. New tires solved the problem.
Good Luck,
DK
_____________________________________________________________________
'68 Bug, '75 Convertible, '76 Bug, '80 Scirocco, '85 Golf, '88 Jetta
'95 Passat GLX Wagon
Dave Keyser | The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily
Gurnee, Illinois | those of my employer, Abbott Laboratories.
Rick Barber
>
>Had a similar shimmy problem with my '75 super 'vert. After going
>through the whole balancing routine and checking the suspension
>components, closer inspection revealed the Firestone tires were
>out-of-round. New tires solved the problem.
>
>Good Luck,
>
>DK
DK
I think the tire thing will be where I'll start since I was gonna do it even
if I didn't have the shimmy problem. The ones on it now have dry rot and
marginal tread. If that doesn't do it I guess I'll start running down the
list of posted suggestions as I can afford it.
Thanks,
Rick
TBailey157
71-74 superbeatles are a mystery to a lot of people because there aren't
enough
people knowlagable about the front end. first of all i have a 73 super
lowered and
with most have experienced the same problem with the shimmy. what you
have to do is buy a urathane kit from topLine in california for about 70
dollars which ships with control arm and swaybar bussings. your steering
box may be worn so
try and find someone who really knows how to ajust it or just go out on a
limb and buy a rebuilt one. Make sure your struts are in good shape (just
installed new ones) and the tires are balanced with a front end ajustment.
if you can find someone who knows the super and can perform all the above
mentioned recomendations then (someone who really knows) your shimmy
problems will end.
Alan Tomlinson
Try checking the rubber bushes, as if they are worn you could be getting
the shakes. They are relatively inexpensive to replace, but are a pain to
put on. Also check that your steering arms are straight and in adjustment.
I have had both worn bushes and a bent steering arm to replace on a 72
superbug, after racing driver#763 parked it in a tree.
Jon LeGrand
If you can track down an upper strut brace bar in Europe, this may do the
trick. I am not sure, but the GermanCar Company may carry this sort of
thing.
Rallyrudy
I'm surprised no one mentioned idler arms. The Super Beetles in this area
had a tendency for the the idler arm shaft to get tight in the bushing due
to corrosion. This produced hard steering at first but if let go long
enough the metal sleeves would seize to the shaft especially if the car
had sat for a while and the rubber bushings between the sleeves and idler
arm housing would quickly self destruct. I have also seen the struts
develop play around the piston rod and introduce slop in the front
supension, this occured even though the shock still functioned adaquately
and wasn't leaking. Good luck.
LMarsh3775
>>Subject: Re: Super Beetle Shimmy Problem From: sparrow
>><cjkn...@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:01:59
>>-0600 Message-ID: <33512D...@worldnet.att.net>
>>MARC TOUSSAINT wrote: > > Ric > > Rick > > $Rick, > here we
>>go again with the most common complaint about the Supers...what
>>> happens most often is the shock towers weaken and tilt
>>inwards a tiny > bit. If you take a body jack and move them
>>back to where they are > supposed to be, you will be amazed.
>>Voila! no shakes. I have the spec > somewhere and I will hunt
>>it up and post it soon. As strange as it may > seem, I have
>>known of swapping the front tires around and the shimmy > going
>>away. It's some kind of magic when it does. Then the Supers >
>>handle so very much better than the standards on the road.
>>Good luck! > -- > marc toussaint > slugbug - parts and
>>restoration vw parts hotline: 972.313.0085 > 1119 Luke
>>Street #113 > Irving, Tx 75061-4059
>>Mark,
>>I would like that info too. Big shimmy cured w/ new control
>>arm bushing but still some minor vibration.
>>Cary 71 SB Convertible
I had entire front end replaced and no help. New tires fixed it.
Lanny Marshall
lmars...@aol.com
Mirage1923
all superbeetles shimmy, and there aint nothing that can fix it. The
whole thing is interconnected, and if you replaced it all, it would still
shimmy. Sorry for the bad news.
Randy Ferrill
and after that it was smooth. Jacked the front end and looked for
anything with play and found a tierod end that needed replacement. After
replacing the tierod end the car was smooth thru all speeds.
You just need to spend some time before just replacing things. Frank
Klein wrote a good article on shimmy fixes.
Randy Ferrill
'74 Super
MARC TOUSSAINT
Mirage1923 wrote:
>
> all superbeetles shimmy, and there aint nothing that can fix it. The
> whole thing is interconnected, and if you replaced it all, it would still
> shimmy. Sorry for the bad news.
be cured of that elusive shimmy... Done it many many times.
--
marc toussaint
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/slugbug
Joe Bento
mirag...@aol.com (Mirage1923) wrote:
>all superbeetles shimmy, and there aint nothing that can fix it. The
>whole thing is interconnected, and if you replaced it all, it would still
>shimmy. Sorry for the bad news.
I beg to differ. My '75 Super vert is completely steady at any speed.
Jlbuch
All the strut cars seem to very sensitive to out of round or otherwise
defective tires; for example, a bubble or extrusion in the sidewall.
Check this first. The Super Beetle's just seem very sensitive to tires.
I've owned 6 SB's, all of them 1973's. Also, check the tie rod ends and
ball joints, and the steering column U-joint coupling. Also, the control
arm bushings do wear out, and when they do they cause the car to wander
and pull, and perhaps also to shimmy. What about a loose wheel bearing
adjustment? Also, check for serious rusting in the area where the top of
the strut attaches. It could be giving way, and causing misalignment. Is
the hydraulic steering dampner shot. If so, you'll get shock sent up to
the steering wheel from the road, which could be experienced as a shimmy.
Good luck.
Edward E Buchanan
Dear Marc,
Would you mind in sharing this information for the rest of us
super owners? I've had a shimmy in my '72 since the day i bought
her....and no matter what i do, i can't seem to get the damn thing to run
steady at 45 mph.
any help would be greatly appreciated!
Ed Buchanan
Brian Hill
In article <19970504180...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mirag...@aol.com (Mirage1923) wrote:
> all superbeetles shimmy, and there aint nothing that can fix it. The
> whole thing is interconnected, and if you replaced it all, it would still
> shimmy. Sorry for the bad news.
Don't think so!!! My super had the usual probs. Un-balanced tires, worn
tie-rods/ends, worn bushings, worn struts, sloppy steering box, and worn
damper. Fixed all of the above problems a little at a time including
lowering the front end by 2.5" and the front end is solid!!!!!
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Brian Hill
hi...@dt.navy.mil (business)
bdh...@erols.com (personnal)
DISCLAIMER: While Uncle Sam may speak for me (whether I like it or not), I do not speak for him!