UNLEADED FUEL FOR ALL VW ENGINES !
Karim Ben Sliman
now it is of official:
The Volkswagen AG Wolfsburg/AutoMuseum just spread the news that not only
all engines built after 1977 are prepared for the use of unleaded fuel (This
is what they said until today), but
ALL (!!!) VW ENGINES ARE 100% CLEARED FOR THE USE OF UNLEADED FUEL.
The use special Additives is NOT recommended!!
The correct Octane number (ROZ) as discribed in your manual has to be
considered.
Hope i could help you with this.
Karim
-Germany-
hitcher
hitcher
Karim Ben Sliman a écrit dans le message <35b5b...@news.swol.de>...
Sue Rogers
> Karim Ben Sliman a écrit dans le message <35b5b...@news.swol.de>...
> >ALL (!!!) VW ENGINES ARE 100% CLEARED FOR THE USE OF UNLEADED FUEL.
> >
> >The use special Additives is NOT recommended!!
> >The correct Octane number (ROZ) as discribed in your manual has to be
> >considered.
Whenever we've run our 1981 VWCamper (T3,air cooled) on unleaded, it runs
like a pig, does far less miles to the gallon, has far less gumption up
hills (not that it has much anyway) to the point of literally shuddering.
We've tried normal and super unleaded but have found it's much happier on
leaded 4-star.
mike james
my vans 1.9L watercooled would run on anything from paraffin to alcohol and
not
to worry about leaded/unleaded just try to get the octane about x (I forget
the value).
It's been a lot of years and its worked just fine with no loss of power.
mike
Andy Vevers
>
>> Karim Ben Sliman a écrit dans le message <35b5b...@news.swol.de>...
>> >ALL (!!!) VW ENGINES ARE 100% CLEARED FOR THE USE OF UNLEADED FUEL.
>
>Whenever we've run our 1981 VWCamper (T3,air cooled) on unleaded, it runs
>like a pig, does far less miles to the gallon, has far less gumption up
>hills (not that it has much anyway) to the point of literally shuddering.
>We've tried normal and super unleaded but have found it's much happier on
>leaded 4-star.
I recently decided to try out our camper on unleaded. So far I can't
detect any difference in performance or mpg, though I need to run a
few more tankfuls through to get a better estimate on mileage. I don't
think I'm going to chance it on our trip to Spain though unless that's
all there is.
BTW should I be altering the advance on the ignition to use unleaded?
Andy Vevers 79 2 litre Devon
GazMP
VW Engine Interchange Manual" that all engines after 1967 are built in a way
that will happily, without modifaction, run unleaded. On questioning him on
this, it changed to "Well, if you can get unleaded, use it" otherwise change
your valves to stainless steel. I think this change of heart came because I
was picking on Just Campers for selling conversion kits for T1 1600 engines for
300 UKP and they advertise in his magazine, or maybe they are friends.
Since buying my T2 with a 1600 TP T1 engine about 5 months ago I have run it on
unleaded without any problems, yet. I do intend stripping the engine in the
next couple of months, so I'll let you know if the valves are damaged.
Gaz
mr sussex
ain't gonna screw up our valve seats etc?
I think we should be told!!
Toby Erkson
sics]..." and I think I know why they were having so many problems: The
1981 Camper should be using, minimally, a Type IV engine, not a Type III!
Toby "keen at stating the obvious :)" Erkson
air_cooled_nut (at) pobox dot com <-- Please use this address for email
'72 VW Squareback 1.6L bored and stroked to 2.0L, Berg five-speed
'75 Porsche 914 1.8L, ORPCA member
Portland, Oregon, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8501/
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mr sussex wrote in message <6p5pj0$82i$1...@heliodor.xara.net>...
jammin' jeff
>
> > Karim Ben Sliman a écrit dans le message <35b5b...@news.swol.de>...
> > >ALL (!!!) VW ENGINES ARE 100% CLEARED FOR THE USE OF UNLEADED FUEL.
snip
> We've tried normal and super unleaded but have found it's much happier on
> leaded 4-star.
FOUR STAR!!!!!!! I WISH!
You folks across the pond just don't know how lucky you are in respects
to the quality of fuels available to you (... then again ... your fuel
taxes suck!) ;)
Anyway, VWs have used STEEL valve seats in their heads from almost day
one ...
and there is no problems I have ever heard about running unleaded fuel
in one
of VWs air-cooled engines ....... PROVIDED ...... the octane level is
sufficient!!!
What “sufficient” means, is, with unleaded fuels, you must run a higher
octane level gasoline to prevent detonation (pinging) .... or lower
compression .... or retard
timing .... or both. Lead in gasoline does two major jobs. It reduces
detonation
for a given octane level, and acts as a lubricant (more for the
super-heated exhaust valve and seat than anything).
Here in California, we can only buy unleaded fuel. In fact, the last
leaded fuel available to Californians was so small, an old house (with
lead paint) had a higher quantity of lead than 100 tankers of fuel.
Currently, the best available gasoline (at 99.9 percent of the pumps in
the state)
is 92 RON (which isn’t even the *actual* octane rating, but a cheap
imitation of the real rating of said fuel).
Even with this junk fuel, with all its additives, air-cooled VWs live on
without problems (as long as the heads haven’t been rebuilt by some
shmuck shop who put
in CAST IRON seats to save some bucks ... or make some bucks! By the
way,
this IS NOT very common, but I have heard it has happened)
Jammin’ Jeff
PS.
Personally, I prefer low compression engines ... 6.68:1 to 7.0:1 type of
stuff
... which can get away with the really weak, 87 RON gas if the timing
is dialed out some.
John Galt
(leaded being no longer sold here). Also, since there may be some
confusion, owners of older VWs should note that the octane ratings shown
in their older manuals are in different units than those of the modern
petroleum industry. Mine (68T1) says minimum 91 RON, but this is
apparently equal to the current USA 87 octane (according to several
people in this newsgroup about 2 months ago).
--
//-- Live Free or Die.
Karim Ben Sliman
mr sussex schrieb in Nachricht <6p5pj0$82i$1...@heliodor.xara.net>...
>Is this true? Is there a VW website with more info? Are we SURE that it
>ain't gonna screw up our valve seats etc?
>
>I think we should be told!!
I tried to keep my first message short as writing in English is somewhat
difficult for me. But OK here´s the complete story:
I am member in the "Brezelfenstervereinigung" a large club for owners of
VW -1957.
The president of this club asked the guys in Wolfsburg about using unleaded
fuel in split and oval bugs.
In the past VW said that unleaded fuel was OK for all engines built after
1977.
But today as I got our new club magazine I found a letter from VW Wolfsburg:
In this letter they say that they had new findings about unleaded fuel and
that there is no risk in using unleaded fuel for all VW engines no matter
how old they are.
So if your engine dies, don´t kill me, kill them.
Personally I use unleaded fuel in my ´60,´66 bugs and my 60 bus without any
problems for years.
When they finally took leaded fuel off the german market a few years ago, i
tried additives but there was really no difference. So I decided to take the
cheapest way: unleaded pure.It works.
Karim
-Germany-
PBjurman
has the same, albeit rebuilt, engine in it. I guess if it causes harm, it's
very minor.
-Sam Hartmann
1973 Super Beetle - http://members.aol.com/pbjurman/vw.html
nospam Rob Boardman
>But today as I got our new club magazine I found a letter from VW Wolfsburg:
>In this letter they say that they had new findings about unleaded fuel and
>that there is no risk in using unleaded fuel for all VW engines no matter
>how old they are.
>When they finally took leaded fuel off the german market a few years ago, i
>tried additives but there was really no difference. So I decided to take the
>cheapest way: unleaded pure.It works.
>
>Karim
Thanks Karim, nice post.
Can I add one thing. Unleaded fuel which meats the MINIMUM Octane rating for
your VW - 91 RON for most 1300/1500/1600s, 87RON for 1200s (assuming standard
compression in each case).
--
Rob
R(dot)Boardman(at)bom(dot)gov(dot)au
(1970 1500 beetle, one owner, 241,000 miles on it's original engine)
Sven Paas
Karim Ben Sliman (bens...@swol.de) wrote:
: I am member in the "Brezelfenstervereinigung" a large club for owners of
: VW -1957.
: The president of this club asked the guys in Wolfsburg about using unleaded
: fuel in split and oval bugs.
Is it possible to scan VW's official statement and to put it online
at the homepage of the BREZELFENSTERVEREINIGUNG at
http://home.t-online.de/home/das.brezelfenster/
???
That would be great!
Thanks, Sven
--
| _ : Sven M. Paas, Lehrstuhl fuer Betriebssysteme (LfBS)
|_|_`__ : RWTH Aachen, Kopernikusstr. 16, D-52056 Aachen
| |__) : Tel. : +49-241-80-5162, Fax: +49-241-8888-339
|__) : e-mail: sv...@lfbs.rwth-aachen.de [PGP-public-key]
Mike Kohlbrenner
>
> ... with unleaded fuels, you must run a higher octane level
> gasoline to prevent detonation (pinging)
Considering that "octane" is a measure of a fuel's ability to
prevent detonation, I would disagree with this statement. Octane
is octane, regardless of whether it is obtained through the
addition of lead or better refining of unleaded.
> ... Lead in gasoline does two major jobs. It reduces detonation
> for a given octane level,
No -- see above...
> Currently, the best available gasoline (at 99.9 percent of the
> pumps in the state) is 92 RON
Actually, I think that everywhere in the U.S., the measure used
is called the Anti-Knock Index and is the average of the _R_esearch
octane number, RON, and the _M_otor octane number, MON. That is
what is meant by the "R+M/2" you see on all the pumps.
> (which isn’t even the *actual* octane rating, but a cheap
> imitation of the real rating of said fuel).
Not sure what you mean by this...
> Even with this junk fuel, with all its additives, air-cooled VWs
> live on without problems
That is because VWs were designed with minimum octane requirments
no greater than 91 RON. Given that MON is usually 8-12 points
lower than RON for a given fuel, it is a pretty safe bet that even
87 octane "using the R+M/2 method" will be fine for a bug designed
to run on 91 RON.
--
Mike Kohlbrenner
<kohlbren (-a t-) an dot hp dot com> sorry!
Dave Hall
after the 'loaf' that is the 'Vanagon' I think in the US. It does
indeed have the air-cooled Type 4 engine or the wasserboxer.
Dave.
--
da...@spam.me.nothallvw.clara.co.uk
Please delete "spam.me.not" when replying!
VW Type 3 & 4 Club website: http://www.hallvw.clara.net
See new aircooled Buses http://www.hallvw.clara.net/vwcarat.htm
---
Toby Erkson wrote in message <6p5sqq$d...@news.or.intel.com>...
Toby Erkson
our Type Three mailing list. Sigh...T3...SB...when will the cross-confusion
ever end? :)
Toby Erkson
air_cooled_nut (at) pobox dot com <-- Please use this address for email
'72 VW Squareback 1.6L bored and stroked to 2.0L, Berg five-speed
'75 Porsche 914 1.8L, ORPCA member
Portland, Oregon, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8501/
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Dave Hall wrote in message <6p8coq$c6h$2...@eros.clara.net>...
D M SWENSON
Sneaks
Please visit the Lost and Exploited VW Salvation Site, dedicated to the
rescue of unloved and neglected VWs Worldwide (okay, only in North America
right now, but that's just cuz no one anywhere else has submitted),
http://members.xoom.com/Sneakers/VW , visit and submit a sighting, save a
submitted car, or just see if anyone is in the VW Chat room. Site has been
revamped to be alittle more "visually appealing" and easier to read.
nospam Rob Boardman
Spot on post about the 'things lead did' for the engine. We still get leaded
here in Australia, but probably only for another 5 years or so (mainly because
we keep our cars a LONG time, and a LOT of cars would suffer if they had to
switch to unleaded).
The other thing worth mentioning about unleaded fuels (especially in
California, but also elsewhere), is the use of oxygenates (MTBE, TAME, ETBE,
Gasohol) to enhance octane.
These contain oxygen (they are partly pre-burned, if you like), so they
contain less energy. Fuel in California can contain up to 11% MTBE, for a toal
oxygen content of 2% (only 98% 'real'fuel).
Since a carburettor works on VOLUME of fuel, not on COMPONENTS of fuel, carby
cars on oxygenated fuels run lean. VWs don't like lean running much - makes
'em run hot - increasing detonation problems and such. So sometimes enlarging
your main jet a bit will help the poor beetle endure the visitudes of unleaded
oxygenated fuels.
--
Rob
R(dot)Boardman(at)bom(dot)gov(dot)au
(1970 1500 beetle, one owner, 242,000 miles on it's original engine)
In article <35B6A8...@concentric.net>, jea...@concentric.net says...
>
>Sue Rogers wrote:
>>
>> > Karim Ben Sliman a écrit dans le message <35b5b...@news.swol.de>...
>> > >ALL (!!!) VW ENGINES ARE 100% CLEARED FOR THE USE OF UNLEADED FUEL.
>
>snip
>
>> We've tried normal and super unleaded but have found it's much happier on
>> leaded 4-star.
>You folks across the pond just don't know how lucky you are in respects
>to the quality of fuels available to you (... then again ... your fuel
>taxes suck!) ;)
Yes - in Australia too. Try $2.90 per US gal - half of it fuel tax.
>and there is no problems I have ever heard about running unleaded fuel
>in one
>of VWs air-cooled engines ....... PROVIDED ...... the octane level is
>sufficient!!!
>
>What “sufficient” means, is, with unleaded fuels, you must run a higher
>octane level gasoline to prevent detonation (pinging) .... or lower
>compression .... or retard
>timing ....
>Currently, the best available gasoline (at 99.9 percent of the pumps in
>the state)
>is 92 RON (which isn’t even the *actual* octane rating, but a cheap
>imitation of the real rating of said fuel).
>Jammin’ Jeff
>
nospam Rob Boardman
>
>>
>
>I notice a big difference in my '64 between unleaded fuel, and throwing in
the lead
>additive. Hopefully I won't get caught without it again.
>
This is interesting Chris.
What OCTANE unleaded, and do you live in California (or someplace else) with
high oxygenate content fuel. Have you modified your compression at all?
The 64 1200 engine with normal compression should run just fine on any fuel of
87RON (about 84 R+M/2) or better, but if it's OXYGENATED fuel, this will cause
the car to run lean (it contains oxygen, which the carby can not compensate
for). Lean running will result in more-likely detonation, so adding a lead
additive (or susbstitute) may help compensate (with a higher resistance to
detonation) for the hotter running engine. Changing to a high octane unleaded
might give you the same effect, and/or enriching the main jet might help too,
if you have to oxygenated fuels.
mike james
I've got a 1984 water cooled van and I've been told to call it a T25 by some
and just a
T2 by others I'm totally confused....
mikej
D M SWENSON wrote in message
<6p8scu$c6s0$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
Magnus Barber
well yes - you _can_ maybe use unleaded in any VW engine, but without
lead to cool and lubricate the valves & valve seats you will tend to get
premature engine failures. These "converted" engines are running tougher
valve seats and probably stainless (or titanium or sodium filled) valves
(_if_ the company has done their job properly....)
cheers, Magnus
Sue Rogers
james" <mike....@infomax.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> What is a Vanagon?
> I've got a 1984 water cooled van and I've been told to call it a T25 by some
> and just a
> T2 by others I'm totally confused....
Yep, me too (confused). We've got a 1981 "transporter"-shape (some
enthusiasts say we've got a "brick", others tell us its a "T3").
Most T3s (so I understand) are water-cooled (which is why, said another
enthusiast "you may find T1 and T2 drivers don't wave to you because they
assume you're water-cooled"). In fact our T3 is air-cooled (the early
ones were).
And the badge on the back says "Camping"
So have we got a:
1. T3
2. Brick
3. Vanagon
4. Transporter-camper
5. Something else?
Answers on a postcard please...!
mike james
>Yep, me too (confused). We've got a 1981 "transporter"-shape (some
>enthusiasts say we've got a "brick", others tell us its a "T3").
Brick yes definitely the best description. It certainly has the aerodynamics
of a brick!
>Most T3s (so I understand) are water-cooled (which is why, said another
>enthusiast "you may find T1 and T2 drivers don't wave to you because they
>assume you're water-cooled"). In fact our T3 is air-cooled (the early
>ones were).
>And the badge on the back says "Camping"
>
>So have we got a:
>1. T3
>2. Brick
>3. Vanagon
>4. Transporter-camper
>5. Something else?
>
I had never heard the term "Vanagon" until I started reading the news
groups.
As far as I can tell it certainly isn't a T3 which is the only term I am
100% sure
isn't appropriate - the reason is that I get told so when I use it :-)
mikej
Ian Johnston
: So, if this is the case ( that all VW aircooled engines can run
: happily on unleaded), why is it that the company that supplied me with
: my refurbished engine also supply a variant which is 'converted' for
: use with unleaded fuel ?
And why does Just Kampers sell German-VW made unleaded heads which aren't
the same as standard heads?
Ian
airhead
aircooled engine it's a T25. Vanagon is the american name for T25 and T3.
All these models are called Transporter or Caravelle (with benches).
Sue Rogers heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>In article <901269360.4829.0...@news.demon.co.uk>, "mike
>james" <mike....@infomax.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> What is a Vanagon?
>> I've got a 1984 water cooled van and I've been told to call it a T25 by
some
>> and just a
>> T2 by others I'm totally confused....
>
>
>Yep, me too (confused). We've got a 1981 "transporter"-shape (some
>enthusiasts say we've got a "brick", others tell us its a "T3").
>
>Most T3s (so I understand) are water-cooled (which is why, said another
>enthusiast "you may find T1 and T2 drivers don't wave to you because they
>assume you're water-cooled"). In fact our T3 is air-cooled (the early
>ones were).
>And the badge on the back says "Camping"
>
>So have we got a:
>1. T3
>2. Brick
>3. Vanagon
>4. Transporter-camper
>5. Something else?
>
airhead
airhead heeft geschreven in bericht <6pa3ng$hss$1...@news2.xs4all.nl>...
>When it has a watercooled engine (including the diesel) it's a T3, with the
>aircooled engine it's a T25. Vanagon is the american name for T25 and T3.
>All these models are called Transporter or Caravelle (with benches).
>
T1 (until 1967 or 8) or T2a (1967 until 1972) and T2b (1972 until 1979).
Still confused? Who isn't?
Airhead
mike james
>aircooled engine it's a T25. Vanagon is the american name for T25 and T3.
>All these models are called Transporter or Caravelle (with benches).
>
As you say (later) - still confused.
If this is so why then does the parts manual for my van say
Typ 2 Mod. 80->85
And it is water-cooled.
When I order parts from German and Swedish they insist that it isn't a Type
2 but a Type 25 and T3 isn't even a possibility as a name?
The Russek pocket mechanic - sensibly has the title
Volkswagen Transporter 1.9L Petrol 2.1L Petrol
on its cover but if you read the preface (who reads prefaces?) it
says
"...Type 2 vehicle with the 1.9 or 2.1L water cooled engine..."
I'm not trying to pick a fight! It really is a cause of difficulty when
trying to buy parts not to know what to call the brick.
And what is the wasserboxer?
mikej
mpe...@my-dejanews.com
jea...@concentric.net wrote:
> Sue Rogers wrote:
> >
> > > Karim Ben Sliman a écrit dans le message <35b5b...@news.swol.de>...
> > > >ALL (!!!) VW ENGINES ARE 100% CLEARED FOR THE USE OF UNLEADED FUEL.
>
> snip
>
> > We've tried normal and super unleaded but have found it's much happier on
> > leaded 4-star.
>
>
> You folks across the pond just don't know how lucky you are in respects
> to the quality of fuels available to you (... then again ... your fuel
> taxes suck!) ;)
>
> one ...
> in one
> of VWs air-cooled engines ....... PROVIDED ...... the octane level is
> sufficient!!!
>
> What “sufficient” means, is, with unleaded fuels, you must run a higher
> octane level gasoline to prevent detonation (pinging) .... or lower
> compression .... or retard
> detonation
> for a given octane level, and acts as a lubricant (more for the
> super-heated exhaust valve and seat than anything).
>
> Here in California, we can only buy unleaded fuel. In fact, the last
> leaded fuel available to Californians was so small, an old house (with
> lead paint) had a higher quantity of lead than 100 tankers of fuel.
>
> the state)
> is 92 RON (which isn’t even the *actual* octane rating, but a cheap
> imitation of the real rating of said fuel).
>
> shmuck shop who put
> in CAST IRON seats to save some bucks ... or make some bucks! By the
> way,
> this IS NOT very common, but I have heard it has happened)
>
> Jammin’ Jeff
>
> PS.
> Personally, I prefer low compression engines ... 6.68:1 to 7.0:1 type of
> stuff
> ... which can get away with the really weak, 87 RON gas if the timing
> is dialed out some.
lower compression ratio result in power loss so that the reduced cost of fuel
is lost on poorer mileage?
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
airhead
that the factory (as I"m told) put the T1 for split-screen busses, T2 for
the type after that, and so on.
As far as I know this is the original VW-factory term for the busses.
So if you have a water-cooled bus from, let's say, 1983, it's a type 2 T3.
The new model bus is there for a type 2 T4.
The wasserboxer is the T3, with the water-cooled boxer engine.
When you need to order parts, just say it's a VW bus and mention the year it
was build and which model it is. And of course what engine you have.
It is still confusing and if anyone knows it's different or simpler, let me
know.
Airhead (that's a type 2 T2 from '77, in my case)
mike james heeft geschreven in bericht
<901292612.19142.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...