Aluminum T-1 Engine case?

[ah8411]

Durring my rebuild, I noticed my case was cracked, big supprise, right?
Well, I was wondering if anyone has heard of, or knows where to
purchase, an aluminum type 1 1600cc case. I was under the impression
that if there have been so many problems with Magnesium, and type 4's
are so strong, that some aftermarket company SHOULD make the aluminum
type 1 case. Thanks...

Shamrock81

'69 STD
'74 Super

[Scatman]

>Durring my rebuild, I noticed my case was cracked, big supprise, right?

Mine too. Right down the middle... :P

>Well, I was wondering if anyone has heard of, or knows where to
>purchase, an aluminum type 1 1600cc case. I was under the impression
>that if there have been so many problems with Magnesium, and type 4's
>are so strong, that some aftermarket company SHOULD make the aluminum
>type 1 case. Thanks...

No, never heard of a (pure) Aluminum VW engine case. I was under the
impression that all the aircooled VW motors were made of a Magnesium-Aluminum
alloy. I think the new Mexican cases are cast using the later, stronger alloy
- but I could be wrong...

What do you mean by "so many problems with Magnesium"? It's real easy to warp
or crack a set of aluminum heads on a watercooled car where 'overheating' is
close to normal operating temp for our aircooled engines.

Aaron Guinn - the "Scat(\/)an"
aguin...@aol.com ae...@technologist.com

"Zero to sixty? Sometimes..."

[joe locicero]

All I hear is "talk" about an aluminum case. Scat has an aftermarket unit
but not
exactly a stock 1600 replacement. As long as machine tools last longer
cutting
the soft magnesium, thats the way VW will go. That VW Type 4 case does fit
where Type 1 engine's have died. That aluminum case you want can be
sourced
at a wrecking yard.
Joe
Oregon Performance Products
http://www.spiretech.com/~opshroud

[bukowski]

Four words:
Auto-
Craft.
Ex-
Pensive.

[G.W. East]

What about Pauter ? What are their cases made of ? Again, very expensive.

G.W. East

"bukowski" <buko...@ipa.net> wrote in message
news:vCVr5.7573$wS1.2...@nntp2.onemain.com...

[Joe Cali - Next Generation]

Actually some T-1 cases were aluminum. I forget which, but some guys on the
NG mentioned it.
Joe
ah8411 <ah8...@wayne.edu> wrote in message
news:39AF1C7A...@wayne.edu...

[James W. Lindsay]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 04:17:25 GMT, Joe Cali - Next Generation wrote:

> Actually some T-1 cases were aluminum. I forget which, but some guys on the
> NG mentioned it.

No OEM case was ever made entirely from aluminum. Later cases did have a
higher aluminum content, however, making them somewhat stronger (in
exchange for a little more weight).

Aftermarket Type 1 cases made from aluminum do exist, but they are
expensive and are designed for race only (ie: no provisions exist for
mounting engine tin, a thermostat, etc.).

----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
----------------------------------------------------------------
Not a computer nerd; merely a techno-weenie.
----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Fritz]

I'm curious, why was Magnesium used in cases?
Mike

Joe Cali - Next Generation wrote:

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Remove "NOSPAM" from your reply message for it to be sent.
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[Shad Laws]

Very light weight. Both the tranny and the engine cases were both magnesium
alloys, giving the Beetle a record in automotive history for being the car
with the most magnesium used at 46 pounds per car. Some modern
"lightweight" supercars are now bumping up over the 10 pound barrier :-)

Shad

Mike Fritz <mwf...@psn.net> wrote in message
news:39C4A09C...@psn.net...

> I'm curious, why was Magnesium used in cases?
> Mike
>
> Joe Cali - Next Generation wrote:
>

[Shad Laws]

However, there was a small number of magnesium alloy T4 cases made in
Europe...

Shad

James W. Lindsay <jlin...@home.com> wrote in message
news:h8m8sscfa447n0bqh...@4ax.com...

[Nachi11744]

>Very light weight. Both the tranny and the engine cases were both magnesium
>alloys, giving the Beetle a record in automotive history for being the car
>with the most magnesium used at 46 pounds per car. Some modern
>"lightweight" supercars are now bumping up over the 10 pound barrier :-)

Hi Shad,
I always thought it was because the German car makers have some kind of
fixation about magnesium, the 1989-current 500SL has magnesium seat frames and
some other parts as well.

I have a question for everyone, why did VW use plain iron cylinders instead of
the fancy alloy finned iron cylinders (Biral) used by *other* air cooled cars
like Tatra and Porsche ?

Nachi

[joe locicero]

Nachi11744 wrote:

Nachi,Porsche also used finned iron cylinders as well as aluminum cast over iron
sleeves and an all aluminum cylinder with hard chrome plating. (Early 356's
and all 547's).
I replaced one 1500 Super 356 cylinder/piston assembly for $ 65.00
(part only) in 1955. I have no idea what $65.00 is in 1955 money today.
So its got to be cost when iron is used. Iron stock costs less than aluminum, is
harder to machine, does'nt conduct heat as well as aluminum and eventually
costs (the car owner) more to "carry" around the additional weight throughout
the vehicle's life.

[Nachi11744]

> Iron stock costs less than aluminum, is
>harder to machine, does'nt conduct heat as well as aluminum and eventually
>costs (the car owner) more to "carry" around the additional weight throughout
>the vehicle's life.
>Joe
>Oregon Performance Products
>http://www.spiretech.com/~opshroud

Ah ha,
I guess nowadays it would be refered to as *cost control* (being cheap).

Nachi

[James W. Lindsay]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 03:44:44 -0700, Mike Fritz wrote:

> I'm curious, why was Magnesium used in cases?

Germany had lots of magnesium prior to WW2, but very little aluminum. The
USA had lots, but weren't about to sell it to the Nazis (for fear that they
may use it in military aircraft or dirigibles).

Magnesium is still used today, because the Type 1 engine was *engineered*
with the expansion characteristics of magnesium in mind.

----------------------------------------------------------------
James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Website: http://members.home.net/jlindsay ICQ: #7521644
----------------------------------------------------------------

Shell to DOS...come in, DOS...do you read...over?
----------------------------------------------------------------

[Joe Cali - Next Generation]

Thanks for clearing that up, I had it half right.
Joe

James W. Lindsay <jlin...@home.com> wrote in article
<h8m8sscfa447n0bqh...@4ax.com>...

[Joe Cali - Next Generation]

Very light and strong and if you kept the car as intended for 100k it was
fine. Who ever thought 10 rebuilds in 30 years.
Joe

Mike Fritz <mwf...@psn.net> wrote in article
<39C4A09C...@psn.net>...

> I'm curious, why was Magnesium used in cases?

> Mike

>
> Joe Cali - Next Generation wrote:
>

[Busahaulic]

As I recall, magnesium is used for additional tensile strength / rigitity -
harder surface

[Shad Laws]

Compared to what? Magnesium is WEAKER than aluminum. It's strength is
lower in every way. Also, whereas the surface of aluminum oxidizes very
quickly to form alumina, which greatly retards the rate of oxidation for the
remaining aluminum, magnesium oxidizes to form magnesium oxide, which comes
off in a manner similar to iron rust, leaving the remaining metal open to
oxidation as well. My point is that the surface of aluminum is ceramic
whereas the surface of magnesium is a lightweight metal...

Now, when you start alloying, things can get a bit different. The aluminum
alloy used in the T4 case is stronger than pure aluminum and the megnesium
alloy used in the T1 case is stronger than pure magnesium. However, no
matter how you cut it, aluminum (and the mostly-aluminum alloys) are still
stronger than magnesium (and the mostly-magnesium alloys).

Shad

Busahaulic <PEARSON.D@world(obvious)net.att.net> wrote in message
news:Clgx5.3227$Cq6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Busahaulic]

Then in regard to magnesium, my memory serves me poorly! -Busahaulic

Shad Laws wrote in message <8q49qi$ej2u6$1...@ID-35662.news.cis.dfn.de>...

>Compared to what? Magnesium is WEAKER than aluminum. It's strength is

>lower in every way. Also, whereas <<SNIP>>

[VolksFiend]

>, my memory serves me poorly!

....if I could only but get mine to serve me at all......LOL

...Gareth

[Searoy]

I thought there were some Type 1-based industrial engines that used an all
aluminum case, since weight is not an issue with industrial engines usually.

--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy

66 bug (daily driver project)
T4 CIS-T powered imagination

Shad Laws <s-l...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
news:8q2uor$e6dt5$1...@ID-35662.news.cis.dfn.de...

> However, there was a small number of magnesium alloy T4 cases made in
> Europe...
>
> Shad
>
>

> James W. Lindsay <jlin...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:h8m8sscfa447n0bqh...@4ax.com...

[P.J.Berg]

That would be the one with the spin on oil filter, right?

J.

--

P.J.Berg
Berg...@Aircooled.net

"Searoy" <sea...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wAqx5.4207$nk3.2...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

> I thought there were some Type 1-based industrial engines that used an all
> aluminum case, since weight is not an issue with industrial engines
usually.
>
>
> --
> *** Teach a Man to Fish ***
> Searoy
>
> 66 bug (daily driver project)
> T4 CIS-T powered imagination
>
> Shad Laws <s-l...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
> news:8q2uor$e6dt5$1...@ID-35662.news.cis.dfn.de...
> > However, there was a small number of magnesium alloy T4 cases made in
> > Europe...
> >
> > Shad
> >
> >
> > James W. Lindsay <jlin...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:h8m8sscfa447n0bqh...@4ax.com...

[Searoy]

I don't know. Just thought there was an all aluminum Type 1-based
industrial engine.

--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy

66 bug (daily driver project)
T4 CIS-T powered imagination

P.J.Berg <Berg...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:18tx5.2064$X46.3...@juliett.dax.net...

> That would be the one with the spin on oil filter, right?
>
> J.
>
> --
>
>
>
> P.J.Berg
> Berg...@Aircooled.net
>
>
>
>
>
> "Searoy" <sea...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:wAqx5.4207$nk3.2...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > I thought there were some Type 1-based industrial engines that used an
all
> > aluminum case, since weight is not an issue with industrial engines
> usually.
> >
> >
> > --
> > *** Teach a Man to Fish ***
> > Searoy
> >
> > 66 bug (daily driver project)
> > T4 CIS-T powered imagination
> >
> > Shad Laws <s-l...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
> > news:8q2uor$e6dt5$1...@ID-35662.news.cis.dfn.de...
> > > However, there was a small number of magnesium alloy T4 cases made in
> > > Europe...
> > >
> > > Shad
> > >
> > >
> > > James W. Lindsay <jlin...@home.com> wrote in message
> > > news:h8m8sscfa447n0bqh...@4ax.com...

[Joe Cali - Next Generation]

The outer surface is hard and it is very light but it is soft. It did what
it was intended to do. It is just when you go to higher hp that has
problems. Also the more mileage the block gets the more metal fatigues and
falls apart. The amount of rebuilds on a T-1 that you purchase are in most
cases unknown. .

Joe

Busahaulic <PEARSON.D@world(obvious)net.att.net> wrote in article
<Clgx5.3227$Cq6.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...

[mi...@sandrail.com]

In article <39AF1C7A...@wayne.edu>,

Hello!

A gentleman I met at the Yerington 400 VORRA race is completing a new
all aluminum casting Type 1 case. I don't have price quotes or release
date yet. I hope to do a complete write up when he is ready - he wants
to wait until he has cases ready for shipment before he has any material
published.

Mike
2110 sandrail

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Wolfvan88]

You can also use a WBX case out of a 83 1/2 to 92 Vanagon, cut the water
jackets off and use many T1 engine performance parts to rebuild.
www.geneberg.com

Robert