OIL Leak?? strange, 74 Bus, 1800cc T4 engine
cointreau
Hopefully someone knows more about these engines than I do.
My 74 Bus with an 1800 engine has an oil leak. However, it only starts
leaking after it has been driven, and when I shut it down, it just pretty
much slows and stops. It also Doesn't leak while idling from starting it up
and no driving.
I have yet to pull the engine. I did the rear main seal but that wasn't the
problem. Here's the thing, after driving, even around the block, its
dripping from all places in the rear. It drips mostly off the fan housing,
cross bar bolts, the bottom of the fill tube... all lowest points on the
rear of the engine. More so on the pass. side.
When I did the main seal, the block, all under the crank and below was
Clean, very clean and shiny. As if the hot oil was streaming down there and
washing the grime off.
Its all just really confusing.
Here's how it started. I pulled the engine to do exaust gaskets on the
heads. (which blew out again anyway). I forgot to drain the oil.
Well we turn the engine just about every which way. On the clutch end and
finally upside down. Some oil leaked out of the crankcase breather but we
plugged that up.
So after I put the engine back in I took it for a spin. after 40 min of
driving and returning home, it was dripping oil pretty bad.
and so it goes, I drove for a week but it was so bad, oil was everywhere
gettin slung around in the wind AND the level was going down. My next step
is to replace the two small seals on the OIL Cooler. But I don't think its
there. Also it doesn't appear to be theol pump either.
Here is another strange thing. After driving, a nice small puddle of oil has
collected in the engine compt. below the belt. All round the where the
filler tube goes through the sheet metal. It also seems that the oil is
getting into the cooling system. but How? I have no Idea. I'm just lost on
this one. THe van has finnaly stumped me.
Like when I took the fan off, the inside of the fanhousing was full of grimy
oil.
I just don't know.
On thing I cant see unless I pull then engine, is the oil control valve.
This located on the pass. side of the block, near the top, just below the
crank..breather. According to the manuals.
SO, If anyone has any ideas of what I should do, please help.
I was hoping I didn't have to pull the engine but i guess I will have to and
change every seal.
Steve.
gd###m...@yahoo.com
### = 420
Tim Rogers
"cointreau" <no...@here.org> wrote in message
news:dRew8.20467$3z3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> My next step
> is to replace the two small seals on the OIL Cooler. But I don't think its
> there. Also it doesn't appear to be theol pump either.
>
>
....................I'm guessing that it's the oil cooler seals or possibly
a leak in the oil cooler itself.
Tim Rogers - - - 66 bug, 70 bug, 86 vanagon, 91 vanagon, 65 notch
t...@stny.rr.com
Sam Roza
Sam
"Tim Rogers" <t...@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a9ruek$5p6r6$1...@ID-46866.news.dfncis.de...
Chris Perdue
>Agreed. Sounds like the oil cooler.
>
>Sam
>
and sam has much experience with this problem!!!!
Chris Perdue
http://hometown.aol.com/bugninva/MAINPAGE.html
68 bug, almost roadworthy
to reply take your PANTS off
cointreau
The side of the cooler where the seals are appears dry. I can see the bottom
seal (orange) and it looks like oil has never come out of there. It hasn't
been washed down with hot oil .
Opposite the the seals on the outside of the cooler (torwards the rear)
there is some oil, not a lot. A small point where it could drip from. But
earlier, aftter a ride, I looked up at the oil cooler and there was not
excessive oil on it.
Also, what I don;t understand is why it doesn't leak while idling or even
reving up in the driveway. Yesterday, I had it idleing for at least 10
minutes and no leaks anywhere. Except he usuall small drop from the valve
covers. But thats always been there.
Well, I'm here battling a light rain and now some thunder. I don't want to
remove the oil cooler beacuse the seals apear dry. I have em, and it look a
bit tricky in car, but I think it can be done.
Still confused
Steve
Sam Roza <SamRoza@Hotmail_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:uc31do6...@corp.supernews.com...
jimt
driven for a while. same as yours it goes away and does not appear at
idle. I put a small amount of marker in my oil and borrowed a lamp
from the shop. My leak is somewhere in the oil cooler area. At idle
there may not be enough combined temp and pressure to get a leak. I am
trying to figure out how to get at the bolts without pulling to much
off of the engine to retorque the cooler nuts. Low priority at the
moment though.
jimt
In article <Cogw8.20634$3z3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
cointreau
And Thanks to Tim and Sam...
Unfourtunately, this is no minor leak, it gets bad after driving. And When
it first happened, If I took a trip longer than 20 min. I was loosing near a
quart of oil.
Now Get this sh*t. I had taken the oil filter off to check the oil cooler,
twice in the last hour and put ti back on. So wiped the cooler off the best
I could to check it again. I went to start the van and crank,crank,stop!!!.
It seems now the starter can't turn the engine over. (not the battery). I
tried again and it would not turn. I was able to turn it by hand but heard
some sounds of air/liquid squeezing out of somewhere. I usually hear this
when turning by hand and the pistons are on compression. But not as loud as
this.
Also now my carb is wet with gasoline and is dripping clowly in a few spots.
I can only wonder if I left the ignition on and didn't know it for an hour.
Last time I had it running, it stalled out on me. I could have sworn I shut
it off. I would never leave the ignition on. So I was removing the plugs and
then it started raining again.
And its getting chilly. here in NJ.
Well I thnink I'm puling the engine tommoro. I don't what I'm gonna find but
I need to fix it fast. I need to drive this thing and can't sell like it is.
My other car a damn FoundOnRoadDead Taurus is really about to be found dead
on the road. Its tranny is going.
If I can fix thi oil leak, the van runs great with a Weber on it and soon
its gettin SOLD.
I'll let you all know when it happens. I'm sure it will be here.
Well thanks again to those contributing and taking the time.
-Steve
Worried Westy
jimt <ji...@jimtnospam.cc> wrote in message
news:200420021120364783%ji...@jimtnospam.cc...
cointreau
I took it for a ride and when I got back, Oil lieaking, I took it for
another ride, and Get this!, The roads are wet around here. I could see the
Trail of oil my bus left behind the first ride. I was able to follow it .
Damn Damn Damn
Aghhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, And now after the second ride, lots
of oil, There a fine line of oil on the edge of the fan case, next to the
spinning fan.
And under inspection, there is less oil near the cooler, I imagine the only
oil gettin there is just from being slung around.
And what the heck am I gonna do if I pull the engine, can run it, can't see
oil leaks.
Jim T, you mentioned puttung a marker in the oil and using a light, can you
elaborate on this more. I have a black light if that is similar. But What
about the tracer, would local stores have it? I'll have to ask a mechanic
fraind about it, He's a bit tough to deal with, everytime I mention a
problem with the bus, he' s like, "You havn'e sold that thing yet?".
Well thanks all again in advanced,
maybe I'll just screw NA today, i need to remove the edge.
Just For Today.
Steve
Karl
You say it leaks on the pass side near the filler tube. You say you move the
engine in all directions. You probably bent the tube and the base gasket is
leaking or it has a crack at the weld where the tube and base are put
together. Also, the dipstick bellows cracks and splits and leaks......
"cointreau" <no...@here.org> wrote in message
news:dRew8.20467$3z3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
cointreau
Yea Yea I can see it all now.. If the filler tube or bellows(in my case the
ballows have been replace with seom heavy duty tubing already) but however,
if there is a leak in either, it doesn't leak at idle because, 1) When I
drive, the pressue increases(& temp) and 2) While driving, the oil is
naturally being forced towards the rear, hence driving out a tiny, tiny
crack in the old filler tube.
And it explaines the phenonana, Since the fan, naturally draws air into it
from the engine compt, since my capt is so well sealed, (besides the main
side vents); where the filer tube goes through, the big rubber bushing in
the sheet metal is all loose or broken .So, the iar is drawn up from
underneath and coming up the filler tube with oil in it and collecting along
the shetmtal, so when I stop, it puddles there.
Wow, thanks Karl, to that.
But I pretty sure the engine was only turn on the fly wheel and upside down.
But who knows what the engine went though or has been through all together,
150K Miles, across the USA(to cali), and down the east coast, I guess these
things can just go.
Well tommorro, I will not pull the engin, instead, I'll drain the oil and
remove the filler tube, I will examine it closly, in lights and such, with
liquids to determin if there is a crack in it. Also will examine the
dipstick rubber.
Cool, I think we're on to something.
Let you know tommorro.
-STeve
Karl <auf...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:V3mw8.3137$Jh1.16...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
cointreau
I was able to remove the filler tube and the dipstick rubber piece.
The rubber piece was cracked when it came out.
I don't know if It cracked when it was bent while taking it out because it
was very brittle.
The filler tube had no cracks in it.
It was no easy reasambly, I wound Up taking the whol fan shroud out, engine
in car. Well I did get it all back together by 7:30pm.
I Took it for a short ride, pulled into a well lit lot and looked dry.
Except for now the pass. side valve cover is leaking in fron and buring on
the exh. manifold.
I kept driving and cheking every few minutes, AND compared to yesterday,
almost no oil. (of course when I was filling it, I spilled oil and it
covered the whol problem area)
So one final test, the highway. I took a short highway trip about 5 min. @
60-65.
and then home through city streets.
When I finnlay arrived home, it was dripping, but far Less then yesterday
and More so now from the right heat exchanger , I imagine from the valve
cover. Also, the bottom of the heat exch, eas coated in oil, and oil filter
had a drop oil collected at the bottom, and there was oil running down the
rear of the fan shroud. And it looked as a little oil collected in the
engine compt, under the belt.
Well I am still confused, I think it may have been leaking from the dipstick
rubber piece, which is replaced, but
ALL in ALL, there is still oil all over the place.
Time to sell.
Karl <auf...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:V3mw8.3137$Jh1.16...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
jimt
have to ask the APD or commercial desk rather than the reg parts
counter in some of the places.
jimt
In article <YJkw8.21710$3z3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Jim Adney
>When I finnlay arrived home, it was dripping, but far Less then yesterday
>and More so now from the right heat exchanger , I imagine from the valve
>cover. Also, the bottom of the heat exch, eas coated in oil, and oil filter
>had a drop oil collected at the bottom, and there was oil running down the
>rear of the fan shroud. And it looked as a little oil collected in the
>engine compt, under the belt.
This sounds like the very common push rod tube seal leak. These are
actually rather easy to replace (you DO have to remove the rocker
arms) and the only parts you really have to replace are the outer
O-ring seals; the inner ones seal in the much cooler case and don't
give problems.
-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jad...@vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin USA
-----------------------------------------------
cointreau
I was wondering about those, as there was oil collecting on the Heads
underneath the pushrod tubes.
The engine was done about 45-50K Miles ago. Its always leaked a little oil
somehwere, it was never bone dry. (are they ever?)
But the strangest thing is, the engine is out and upside down for a night,
with oil in it.
I out it back and next thing I know, I have a major leak that the source
just seems nowhere.
Before the engine came out, it was ok. Just the ocassional drop from valve
covers and/or push rod tubes.
Any ideas about internal workings / oil passage ways, Oil getting trapped
somewhere it shouldn't then blowing a seal.
After I put the engine back, I first cranked it with out the plugs in, just
in case.
But who knows, as soon as it stops raining and I get free time, its more
inspection.
Pong Group, thanks for the Help
Steve
Jim Adney <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote in message
news:72k9cukdcma60rm3t...@4ax.com...
Jim Adney
>But the strangest thing is, the engine is out and upside down for a night,
>with oil in it.
>I out it back and next thing I know, I have a major leak that the source
>just seems nowhere.
>Before the engine came out, it was ok. Just the ocassional drop from valve
>covers and/or push rod tubes.
I hate to see people turn engines upside down with oil in them. It can
get any number of places that you really wish it hadn't. OTOH, I don't
think there should be any permanent damage.
Concentrate on the outer pushrod tube seals.
cointreau
I took it for a short ride around town, nohting over 35 mph. And the only
place there was oil was on the right HeatExch and the right Head, in the
front. I examined closely and I could see a little, ver tiny bubles or air
coming from the valve cover gasket towards the front. It has always leaked
here, but never bad. I think this is the source of the frouble, Because
there was a lot of oil there and dripping off hte fron of the head.
The seals for the pushrod tubes seem dry at the very seal it self. There is
oil colecting underneath , on the headm the curved part right below the
pushrod tube.
But first, I'm just gooing to do the cover gaskets.
Then I'll take it from there.
Thanks.
-Steve
74 westie,
Jim Adney <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote in message
news:2hbccu4bmr2ts341q...@4ax.com...
Bunz
underside of the head will show a drop of oil, indicating a hole or
rip in the seal. Be really gentle when putting the tube back in its
hole. Lube it up really good with oil.
Matt
"cointreau" <no...@here.org> wrote in message news:<uIIx8.2391$iU4.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Jim Adney
>I took it for a short ride around town, nohting over 35 mph. And the only
>place there was oil was on the right HeatExch and the right Head, in the
>front. I examined closely and I could see a little, ver tiny bubles or air
>coming from the valve cover gasket towards the front. It has always leaked
>here, but never bad. I think this is the source of the frouble, Because
>there was a lot of oil there and dripping off hte fron of the head.
Check that the head sealing surface is completely clean and smooth,
and make sure you have good gaskets. The cheap ones are too thin and
don't conform well enough to seal properly.
>The seals for the pushrod tubes seem dry at the very seal it self. There is
>oil colecting underneath , on the headm the curved part right below the
>pushrod tube.
This SOUNDS like a pushrod tube seal, but I agree that it could just
be the VC gasket. I would do the same thing: Try the VC gasket first.