73 odd starter issue .. Help Please
Sylvester M. McBean
well it seems odd to me anyway.. and at this point I need help.
the other day my starter seemed to give out.. so I bought a
replacement new from BOSCH.
installation went OK but when I went to try it out I got nothing..
so I'm trying to test everything.. this is what I get (it is also what
I got when I tried to trouble shoot the original starter)
Power lead to main pole on solenoid 12.69 volts
Power from ignition switch to solenoid 12.6 volts
(both grounded to the transmission housing)
short the two main solenoid leads I get sparks but the engine does not
turn over(no sound of the motor running), same when I short the main
lead to the ignition terminal.
There is oil in the engine and it is easy to turn it over by hand.
I had the battery tested and charged (it's OK)
Is there something else I should be checking?
At this point I am wondering if the new starter is dead out of the
Box... is there anyway to test that?
Jim Ed
Speedy Jim Electronic Whiz <<<< ask him.
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/starter4.gif
Rob and Dave’s Aircooled pages
A spare starter is a good thing to have.
-----------------------
This may not be it but then again it might.
I was getting ready to tell you about how the current travels.
When you turn the key to start it, the current has to travel all the
way from the battery, to the ignition switch, and back to the starter.
When those wires get old it makes it hard for the current to get
through.
The real solution is a new wiring harness.
The quick fix is a hard start relay.
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=LST0005&cartid=
Bosch Hard Start Kit
Price: $ 34.95 Part #: LST0005
This kit is made by Bosch, and often fixes "hard start" problems on
aircooled VW's, by providing a direct 12 volt feed to starter from
battery. This kit overcomes the voltage drops in the long wiring leg
(running the power from the battery, to the ignition switch, then back
to the starter). This voltage drop can be bad enough (with old wiring
and dirty connections) that the starter won't kick!
This complete kit includes German Hella relay, instructions, wiring,
connectors, waterproof fuse holder, and fuse.
But you say you get voltage at the starter.
So the hard start relay may not be the answer.
--------------------------------
On Jun 19, 3:37 pm, Sylvester M. McBean <s.m.mcb...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Speedy Jim
Are you saying that the new starter behaves the same way the old one did?
See my sketch of how to jumper the starter terminals:
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/schem/starter4.gif
More on the workings of the starter on Dragenwagen's page:
http://www.ramva.org/dragenwagen/starter.html
The solenoid has 2 separate functions.
1) It closes the main contacts which connect the battery to the
starter motor. The starter begins to spin.
2) About the same time, the solenoid mechanically "throws"
the small pinion gear on the starter shaft right into the
flywheel teeth.
It sounds like your starter isn't "throwing" for some reason
or not far enough, or the flywheel is messed up, or you have the
wrong starter.
You can have a good look at the flywheel simply be removing the
starter.
Long shot, but I would give the crank endplay a check. Push/pull
the crank pulley (hard). It should only move a hair's width.
If it moves much more (like 1/4"), the engine has a problem.
You can't really test the starter motor off the car because the
shaft will have no outer support. You could, however, test just
the solenoid action. Don't connect the battery cable to the
big stud on the solenoid. Connect jumper cable to starter frame
and the other cable to the push-on connector on the solenoid.
The pinion should leap out but the starter not spin.
It's recommended that the shaft bushing inside the bellhousing be
replaced when changing the starter, but it doesn't sound like that
is your problem.
Post back anything you find.
Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/
Sylvester M. McBean
<volks...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Sylvester M. McBean wrote:
>>
>> well it seems odd to me anyway.. and at this point I need help.
>>
>> the other day my starter seemed to give out.. so I bought a
>> replacement new from BOSCH.
>>
>> installation went OK but when I went to try it out I got nothing..
>>
>> so I'm trying to test everything.. this is what I get (it is also what
>> I got when I tried to trouble shoot the original starter)
>>
>> Power lead to main pole on solenoid 12.69 volts
>> Power from ignition switch to solenoid 12.6 volts
>> (both grounded to the transmission housing)
>>
>> short the two main solenoid leads I get sparks but the engine does not
>> turn over(no sound of the motor running), same when I short the main
>> lead to the ignition terminal.
>>
>> There is oil in the engine and it is easy to turn it over by hand.
>>
>> I had the battery tested and charged (it's OK)
>>
>> Is there something else I should be checking?
>> At this point I am wondering if the new starter is dead out of the
>> Box... is there anyway to test that?
>>
>
So the resolution and what I think happened..
I had zero luck with the starter.. I kept trying different things and
a couple people mentioned a ground strap that runs between the tranny
housing and the torsion tube .. I don't see one or even where one once
may have been. I had already replaced the negative battery lead since
at the beginning of the job when I went to disconnect the battery it
was in extremely bad shape.. So I made a ground strap from some 4
gauge Stove wire I had lying around the basement bolted it to the new
negative lead and the engine block.
According to the volt meter everything tests fine (still).. tried it
and nothing. Swearing a blue streak I took out the new starter
assumeing that it's NFG and is going back to the vendor Monday
morning.
On a whim I put the old starter back in, hook it up and cross the
leads... it starts.
Really swearing now I snug everything up try with the key .. zoom
starts in a second.
I've had it on and off maybe twenty times and driven 25 miles or so ..
every start the same no problems no hesitation.
So what I think happened was this.. (let me know if the logic is good
or if I'm on glue)
Prior to it crapping out I had an idiot brake test me (seems I was
going too slow for him) and I'm guessing that when I slammed on the
brakes (hard) the battery moved and the old and crappy negative lead
flexed just that one time too many. Still attached enough to run the
low draw utilities but too much resistance to give the starter the
guts to turn the fly wheel.
Thanks all..
Sylvester M. McBean
<s.m.m...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:24:08 -0400, Speedy Jim
><volks...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>Sylvester M. McBean wrote:
>>>
>>> well it seems odd to me anyway.. and at this point I need help.
>>>
>>> the other day my starter seemed to give out.. so I bought a
>>> replacement new from BOSCH.
>>>
>>> installation went OK but when I went to try it out I got nothing..
>>>
>>> so I'm trying to test everything.. this is what I get (it is also what
>>> I got when I tried to trouble shoot the original starter)
>>>
>>> Power lead to main pole on solenoid 12.69 volts
>>> Power from ignition switch to solenoid 12.6 volts
>>> (both grounded to the transmission housing)
>>>
>>> short the two main solenoid leads I get sparks but the engine does not
>>> turn over(no sound of the motor running), same when I short the main
>>> lead to the ignition terminal.
>>>
>>> There is oil in the engine and it is easy to turn it over by hand.
>>>
>>> I had the battery tested and charged (it's OK)
>>>
>>> Is there something else I should be checking?
>>> At this point I am wondering if the new starter is dead out of the
>>> Box... is there anyway to test that?
>>>
>>
RE Posted