want to build a 1776 daily driver
Jack McCollum
on a CW 69 crank and a Rimco lightened flywheel. We also have the Kadrons
installed and once I dialed them in, they have not needed further adjustment
now for about 10,000 miles. They ran a little lean for this engine size for
me so I have increase my main jet a couple of sizes. I also have the CB 044
heads, 009 with pertronix and a Kymco 1 1/2" merged collector. This car has
little to no flat spot and plenty of power from low RPMs up to around 6
grand or so. BTW we also lowered our compression to 7.3:1 with spacers under
the barrels.
--
Jack in Anaheim
'70 vert bug
2000 Silver NB TDI Auto
admin@loopback $LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost
$USER@localhost
$USER@$HOST -h1024% ro...@mailoop.com
Kurt Miller <mil...@nospam.cbn.net.id> wrote in message
news:39203156...@nospam.cbn.net.id...
> Hello all,
>
> I am looking at building a 1776 daily driver. Actually, I've been
> looking at the Mofoco 1776 project streetwise kit.
>
> Does anyone have any recomendations about this kit and or things to
> look for / do to make a good daily driver with lots of power to spare?
>
> I'd like to put dual carbs on, but I've heard bad stories about dual
> two barrel Holly's being hard to tune. How about dual single barrel
> holley's, or Solex Kadrons?
>
> Also, anyone have views on using a American Engle 100 cam? I want
> to keep the compression ratio low, so I don't link that ratio rockers
> are in the picture....
>
> I am also considering a lightened flywheel to go with a counter
> weighted crank...
>
> Other ideas?????
>
> Kurt (mil...@cbn.net.id) - remove nospam from the return mail address
> for mail replies
>
Bug-Man
--Eric
E-Mail: Bug...@sisna.com
Visit My Web-page: http://www.angelfire.com/nm/GoPed/VW.html
___
/___\
(o\ | /o) 1974 ORANGE SUPER BEETLE "Baggins"
U """ U
Kurt Miller
Jim Mowreader
> I am looking at building a 1776 daily driver. Actually, I've been
> looking at the Mofoco 1776 project streetwise kit.
>
> Does anyone have any recomendations about this kit and or things to
> look for / do to make a good daily driver with lots of power to spare?
I think engine kits are overpriced for what you get. Here's what you want:
1 set 90.5mm standard stroke pistons & cylinders. Mahle makes good ones.
1 Scat Volkstroker forged crank.
Camshaft matched to carb, jugs, heads, exhaust...be sure to use new lifters
with a new cam. They go together.
1 8-dowel flywheel with 1700lb Kennedy clutch. Change the clutch cable and
the cross shaft in the pedal cluster while you're at it.
Set of mild performance heads (John Connolly at aircooled.net has some nice
mild daily-driver heads) with single valve springs.
New connecting rods. Chromoly if you can swing it.
High-quality oil pump--Melling is popular.
Scat chromoly gland nut. Be sure to torque this down very well!
Of course, you need bearings, oil pump, all the normal stuff. Check my sig
for a parts list.
> I'd like to put dual carbs on, but I've heard bad stories about dual
> two barrel Holly's being hard to tune. How about dual single barrel
> holley's, or Solex Kadrons?
Dual Webers are what most high-performance VW folks use. Kadrons are good
too. The dual 2-barrel Holley Bug Spray is out of production, so getting two
may be an entertaining quest.
> Also, anyone have views on using a American Engle 100 cam? I want
> to keep the compression ratio low, so I don't link that ratio rockers
> are in the picture....
WebCam is better.
> I am also considering a lightened flywheel to go with a counter
> weighted crank...
Sounds good.
It sounds like you're fairly squared away.
--
--jmowreader
74 SB
VW engine parts list: http://www.macsalon.org/howtos/vwengine.html
Jeremy Baker
stock cam needs dual valve springs. Also reworked stock rods
(such as rimco super rods) are your best bet. They're very good
quality and alot cheaper than after market rods. They'll work
with anything up to a 78mm crank.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Shad Laws
mainly needed for higher RPM applications. For a daily driver 1776, you
probably want to stay away from the 7000rpm-band anyway...
It makes sense if you look at the reasoning behind the madness... a single
spring has a natural resonance. As RPM increases to a point and the spring
is oscillated by the rocker arms at an increasingly high frequency, the
spring begins to move independently of the rocker arms. Not so great when
you want power... Solution? Put on a second inner spring with a different
resonance characteristics. Now, where one alone would normally be goofy,
the two together make it alright. Or, at least until you go to an even
higher RPM :-)
Shad
Jeremy Baker <dbaker2...@tc3net.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:02b74990...@usw-ex0105-038.remarq.com...
Searoy
want:
> > 1 set 90.5mm standard stroke pistons & cylinders. Mahle makes good ones.
>
I've read
> enough to know better than try to put more HP into it. (I've got it at
1385
> right now...)
A brand spanking new universal case is what you want if you are going for
the HP. Get good parts to go in it too. It will go together better, and
perform better longer.
> > 1 Scat Volkstroker forged crank.
> > Camshaft matched to carb, jugs, heads, exhaust...be sure to use new
lifters
> > with a new cam. They go together.
> >
>
> Will ratio rockers help? I assume if a mild cam 100 or 110, along
with
> Ratio rockers 1.25 or 1.4, then I would get more benefit from a 4 barrel
carb
> setup.
Absolutely get a stroker crank. I would rather have the long stroke than
the larger bore. Both are good, but the stroker feels different, ballsier
at the lower RPM. A little of both is bettter than a lot of either.
90.5x76 (1955cc) thru 94x78.4 (2176cc) is a great size.
> > > I'd like to put dual carbs on, but I've heard bad stories about dual
> > > two barrel Holly's being hard to tune. How about dual single barrel
> > > holley's, or Solex Kadrons?
> >
> > Dual Webers are what most high-performance VW folks use. Kadrons are
good
> > too. The dual 2-barrel Holley Bug Spray is out of production, so getting
two
> > may be an entertaining quest.
Dual Webers are the most common now, although you can still find Dells
around.
Kadrons are 40mm single barrel. Weber ICTs are 34mm single barrel. Weber
IDFs are 40/44/48mm two barrel. Weber IDAs are normally 48mm, and used most
on the strip where part-throttle is almost never needed. IDF is the street
carb of choice, although many folks prefer the older DNCFs.
> Opps, I meant Weber, not holley. Is a 4 barrel setup hard to keep in
tune,
> (meaning you constantly need to tweak the carbs to keep the engine running
> smooth), or are they relatively painless? That's the only reason I'd
consider a
> 2 barel setup (Kadron's or Weber).
Half the fun of having a VW is getting to fool with it, and tune it a little
here and there. If you get something that is non-fiddle you're missing the
point. But seriously, unless you're really hard on the car they should stay
in tune several thousand miles. Still, with a VW, it's best to give
everything (front bumpber to tailpipe, roof rack to tires) a good once over
every month.
Do a search on Dejanews for the subject "TULZ" with the author "Veeduber."
I think there are 10 now. Read them all, print them out and stick them in a
3-ring binder with plastic covers over each page so they will last forever.
If you follow the words given there within your VW might too. (Bob, when's
the next part due out? Can I make a request? The fuel path, from tank to
tailpipe, maintain and improve.)
Also, go to www.aircooled.net, and click on the Tech Article link. Read
everything he has there. There is an especially good article on choosing
carbs, builing engines, and getting the most out of what you've got.
I would buy it all from www.aircooled.net. You could even buy a longblock
kit complete from him, and be sure that you're going to get good parts, and
a strong running engine, assuming you take your time and assemble it right
the first time. Just in case, he sells the longblocks assembled too.
--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
69 bug (parts)
66 bug (daily driver project)
ANTI SPAM STUFF: frau...@psinet.com swee...@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov
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$USER@$HOST -h1024@localhost ro...@mailloop.com
Jim Mowreader
> Just thinking, again. Is a 1776 better, or a stroker in the 1800cc
> range? I'm looking for something that is driveable, not an all out race car
> though
It's cheaper to do a 1776--69mm stroke rods are less expensive than longer
ones, and more common; 69mm stroke cranks are definitely cheaper than
longer-stroke cranks; and there's less machining involved. (If you're going
to up the stroke you're probably going to up the bore as well; the
difference in price between the 85.5 and 90.5 p&c sets is not huge.) And a
1776 is plenty driveable.
Bore increase gives you a power increase that's slanted more toward
horsepower; stroke increase inclines the power increase toward more torque.
Jim Mowreader
> You don't necessarily need dual valve springs. Dual valve springs are
> mainly needed for higher RPM applications. For a daily driver 1776, you
> probably want to stay away from the 7000rpm-band anyway...
>
> It makes sense if you look at the reasoning behind the madness... a single
> spring has a natural resonance. As RPM increases to a point and the spring
> is oscillated by the rocker arms at an increasingly high frequency, the
> spring begins to move independently of the rocker arms. Not so great when
> you want power... Solution? Put on a second inner spring with a different
> resonance characteristics. Now, where one alone would normally be goofy,
> the two together make it alright. Or, at least until you go to an even
> higher RPM :-)
The dual valve springs are also in there to provide more spring pressure to
--
--jmowreader
74 SB
VW engine parts list: http://www.macsalon.org/howtos/vwengine.html
keep the valves from "floating" (not closing all the way) at higher RPM.
John Connolly
--
John Connolly
Aircooled.Net Inc.
Kurt Miller <mil...@nospam.cbn.net.id> wrote in message
news:3922DEDC...@nospam.cbn.net.id...
>
> Just thinking, again. Is a 1776 better, or a stroker in the 1800cc
> range? I'm looking for something that is driveable, not an all out race
car
> though
>
> Kurt
>
> >
> > I am looking at building a 1776 daily driver. Actually, I've been
> > looking at the Mofoco 1776 project streetwise kit.
> >
> > Does anyone have any recomendations about this kit and or things to
> > look for / do to make a good daily driver with lots of power to spare?
> >
> > I'd like to put dual carbs on, but I've heard bad stories about dual
> > two barrel Holly's being hard to tune. How about dual single barrel
> > holley's, or Solex Kadrons?
> >
> > Also, anyone have views on using a American Engle 100 cam? I want
> > to keep the compression ratio low, so I don't link that ratio rockers
> > are in the picture....
> >
> > I am also considering a lightened flywheel to go with a counter
> > weighted crank...
> >
Kurt Miller
Kurt Miller
Are the Kadrons 34mm or 40mm? Also have you had any problems with the linkage?
I've heard that some people complain about the linkage on the Kadrons.
Kurt
'69 Bug - in Jakarta Indonesia
> I've got that engine you're describing in my bug now. We have 90.5 barrels
> on a CW 69 crank and a Rimco lightened flywheel. We also have the Kadrons
> installed and once I dialed them in, they have not needed further adjustment
> now for about 10,000 miles. They ran a little lean for this engine size for
> me so I have increase my main jet a couple of sizes. I also have the CB 044
> heads, 009 with pertronix and a Kymco 1 1/2" merged collector. This car has
> little to no flat spot and plenty of power from low RPMs up to around 6
> grand or so. BTW we also lowered our compression to 7.3:1 with spacers under
> the barrels.
>
> --
> Jack in Anaheim
> '70 vert bug
> 2000 Silver NB TDI Auto
>
> admin@loopback $LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost
>
> $USER@localhost
> $USER@$HOST -h1024% ro...@mailoop.com
> Kurt Miller <mil...@nospam.cbn.net.id> wrote in message
> news:39203156...@nospam.cbn.net.id...
> > Hello all,
Kurt Miller
Jim Mowreader wrote:
>
> I think engine kits are overpriced for what you get. Here's what you want:
> 1 set 90.5mm standard stroke pistons & cylinders. Mahle makes good ones.
Thing is, I also need a case. Right now I have a 1200cc case, and I've read
enough to know better than try to put more HP into it. (I've got it at 1385
right now...)
>
> 1 Scat Volkstroker forged crank.
> Camshaft matched to carb, jugs, heads, exhaust...be sure to use new lifters
> with a new cam. They go together.
>
Will ratio rockers help? I assume if a mild cam 100 or 110, along with
Ratio rockers 1.25 or 1.4, then I would get more benefit from a 4 barrel carb
setup.
> 1 8-dowel flywheel with 1700lb Kennedy clutch. Change the clutch cable and
> the cross shaft in the pedal cluster while you're at it.
>
I don't exactly have the same clutch pedal setup as I have a right hand
drive car, but I've done clutch pedal work already (replaced the whole pedal,
since the hook that grabs the cable was almost worn thru).
> Set of mild performance heads (John Connolly at aircooled.net has some nice
> mild daily-driver heads) with single valve springs.
> New connecting rods. Chromoly if you can swing it.
> High-quality oil pump--Melling is popular.
> Scat chromoly gland nut. Be sure to torque this down very well!
>
> Of course, you need bearings, oil pump, all the normal stuff. Check my sig
> for a parts list.
>
> > I'd like to put dual carbs on, but I've heard bad stories about dual
> > two barrel Holly's being hard to tune. How about dual single barrel
> > holley's, or Solex Kadrons?
>
> Dual Webers are what most high-performance VW folks use. Kadrons are good
> too. The dual 2-barrel Holley Bug Spray is out of production, so getting two
> may be an entertaining quest.
>
Opps, I meant Weber, not holley. Is a 4 barrel setup hard to keep in tune,
(meaning you constantly need to tweak the carbs to keep the engine running
smooth), or are they relatively painless? That's the only reason I'd consider a
2 barel setup (Kadron's or Weber).
>
> > Also, anyone have views on using a American Engle 100 cam? I want
> > to keep the compression ratio low, so I don't link that ratio rockers
> > are in the picture....
>
> WebCam is better.
>
> > I am also considering a lightened flywheel to go with a counter
> > weighted crank...
>
> Sounds good.
>
> It sounds like you're fairly squared away.
> --
>
> --jmowreader
>
> 74 SB
>
> VW engine parts list: http://www.macsalon.org/howtos/vwengine.html
Kurt Miller sends:
beetlein...@my-deja.com
Oh and the News on NBC was talking smake about Indonesia the other day.
In article <B548B695.EC49%xd...@mindspring.com>,
Jim Mowreader <xd...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Kurt Miller sends:
>
> > Just thinking, again. Is a 1776 better, or a stroker in the 1800cc
> > range? I'm looking for something that is driveable, not an all out
race car
> > though
>
> It's cheaper to do a 1776--69mm stroke rods are less expensive than
longer
> ones, and more common; 69mm stroke cranks are definitely cheaper than
> longer-stroke cranks; and there's less machining involved. (If you're
going
> to up the stroke you're probably going to up the bore as well; the
> difference in price between the 85.5 and 90.5 p&c sets is not huge.)
And a
> 1776 is plenty driveable.
>
> Bore increase gives you a power increase that's slanted more toward
> horsepower; stroke increase inclines the power increase toward more
torque.
> --
>
> --jmowreader
>
> 74 SB
>
> VW engine parts list: http://www.macsalon.org/howtos/vwengine.html
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nachi11744
>Oh and the News on NBC was talking smake about Indonesia the other day.
>
smake ? must be a 3rd. world pollutant.
Perhaps it would interest you to know that Lamborghini was owned by an
Indonesian company and they manufacture their own small twin turboprop
transport aircraft.
Not that I am hitting you over the head with some 3rd. world facts, you
understand......(heheheh)
Nachi
jeanp...@webtv.net
Indonesia. She was 16 and never been kissed! She never heard of the
Beatles, or even Sinatra! As far as movies go, all she had ever seen
were Indian.....is the culture really that alien to the West? :) jp
VolksFiend
....damn where I live now in NC if they are 15 and don't have a kid or a
disease its amazing...
...Gareth
Volkswagen Goddess
news:20000518121201...@ng-da1.aol.com...
So how many kids do you have know? :)~
--
Volkswagen Goddess
'74 Streeter Gretchen Von Volks
'69 Baja Axle Von Volks
VolksFiend
>
...I have know of none :))
...Gareth
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>>
>
>...I have know of none :))
THANK GAWD! I' d hate to think that you've procreated. One of you is two too
many. :-)
-ANT
VolksFiend
...I can assure you any creation I do is strictly an ameture effort...but I
keep practicng...
...Gareth
Nachi11744
They have sattelite TV so know a lot more about other cultures than you may
think.
In any case, VWs were assembled/manufactured in a joint venture factory years
back......and the Type 2s are still tooling along on Indonesia's 2000+ islands,
only car short of a 4wd (with a driver that knows how to use 4wd) that can
handle the mud/floods/washed out roads in remote areas. Unfortunately, the bay
window Type 2s in Asia were the nasty Brazillian made vans with 1600 engines
and 4 wheel drum brakes that had a habit of pulling left/right inconsistently.
My guess is the pen pal must have been from a remote fishing village. They were
a Dutch colony, so it cannot be said that their culture is alien to the West.
They have Dutch words in their language, for example:
kantor = office (IIRC)
Nachi
Geoffe Elias
just made out of weak metal. Thus the screws that held the two pieces together
just would strip out the threading and thus make it impossible to use that rod. I
found out that the Bergs now made a linkage for the Kadrons too (they just modified
their linkage drop arms to be able to operate the Kadron's carb arms). So I got
myself one and haven't had any problems since.
Geoffe Elias
'74 Super Beetle
Kurt Miller wrote:
> Are the Kadrons 34mm or 40mm? Also have you had any problems with the linkage?
> I've heard that some people complain about the linkage on the Kadrons.
>
> Kurt
> '69 Bug - in Jakarta Indonesia
>
> > I've got that engine you're describing in my bug now. We have 90.5 barrels
> > on a CW 69 crank and a Rimco lightened flywheel. We also have the Kadrons
> > installed and once I dialed them in, they have not needed further adjustment
> > now for about 10,000 miles. They ran a little lean for this engine size for
> > me so I have increase my main jet a couple of sizes. I also have the CB 044
> > heads, 009 with pertronix and a Kymco 1 1/2" merged collector. This car has
> > little to no flat spot and plenty of power from low RPMs up to around 6
> > grand or so. BTW we also lowered our compression to 7.3:1 with spacers under
> > the barrels.
> >
> > --
> > Jack in Anaheim
> > '70 vert bug
> > 2000 Silver NB TDI Auto
> >
> > admin@loopback $LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost
> >
> > $USER@localhost
> > $USER@$HOST -h1024% ro...@mailoop.com
> > Kurt Miller <mil...@nospam.cbn.net.id> wrote in message
> > news:39203156...@nospam.cbn.net.id...
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I am looking at building a 1776 daily driver. Actually, I've been
> > > looking at the Mofoco 1776 project streetwise kit.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any recomendations about this kit and or things to
> > > look for / do to make a good daily driver with lots of power to spare?
> > >
> > > I'd like to put dual carbs on, but I've heard bad stories about dual
> > > two barrel Holly's being hard to tune. How about dual single barrel
> > > holley's, or Solex Kadrons?
> > >
> > > Also, anyone have views on using a American Engle 100 cam? I want
> > > to keep the compression ratio low, so I don't link that ratio rockers
> > > are in the picture....
> > >
> > > I am also considering a lightened flywheel to go with a counter
> > > weighted crank...
> > >
Geoffe Elias
when discussing the relevance of his class. Have you heard that in the F1 cars,
those frequencies get so high that they have to abandon the use of springs?
Apparently, they use little sacs of air instead. Don't know what they call this
type of system.
Geoffe Elias
'74 Super Beetle
Shad Laws wrote:
> You don't necessarily need dual valve springs. Dual valve springs are
> mainly needed for higher RPM applications. For a daily driver 1776, you
> probably want to stay away from the 7000rpm-band anyway...
>
> It makes sense if you look at the reasoning behind the madness... a single
> spring has a natural resonance. As RPM increases to a point and the spring
> is oscillated by the rocker arms at an increasingly high frequency, the
> spring begins to move independently of the rocker arms. Not so great when
> you want power... Solution? Put on a second inner spring with a different
> resonance characteristics. Now, where one alone would normally be goofy,
> the two together make it alright. Or, at least until you go to an even
> higher RPM :-)
>
Shad Laws
under some good pressure to be able to act as strong springs :-)
BTW, have you ever heard of the spherical valve system? It uses rotating
cylinders with holes in them in place of poppet valves. Coates was the
developer of the technology (i.e. sealing) that allows this, IIRC. There
are no springs, no valves and seats hammering on each other, no camshaft,
etc. - just these rotating shafts. Maybe you could do a yahoo on it or
something, or perhaps someone from around here remembers what I'm talking
about and knows where to find it...
Shad
Geoffe Elias <geof...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39256374...@home.com...
Searoy
I was brainstorming a few months back (look out) about a hydraulic valve
setup, which used conventional valves, but no cam or springs etc, but rather
hydraulic pressure to move the valves. This was to allow electronic valve
timing control. This way you could have a low RPM hi-torque smooth running
engine at low RPMS, but a fire-breathing mega horsepower high RPM engine at
high RPMs. You know, variable timing.
Then I find out BMW is already doing this in prototypes. Oh well.
Still, the rotating cylindrical valve thing sounds better, smoother.
However, seems like the seats and seat pressures on the rotating cylinder
would be a problem. After all, the valve spring places a lot of pressure on
the valve/seat connection, and the combustion process adds to this,
preventing the pressure from escaping through the closed valve. Somehow the
cylindrical rotating valve would have to apply pressures, or a really good
high-pressure seal, to prevent this same loss.
--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
69 bug (parts)
66 bug (daily driver project)
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Shad Laws <s-l...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
news:8g3vvq$dv0$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu...
Gregg Holmes
ANT The Monarch of Menace
work at all! <G> Back in the 20's there were sleeve valve engines made. The
cylinder was sleeved with ports in it (sorta like a 2 stroke). Really weird.
I think that electronic solenoid controlled poppet valves will end up being the
most plausible answer. What with the new Neodymium magnets they require less
power nowadays and can be easily interfaced with the engine management computer
for a true variable cam.
Also, by capturing the short pulse of power that spikes when a solenoid is
deactivated, this can be used to assist the firing of the next solenoid,
thereby reducing the system's power demands.This will make it that much more
efficient. But just that much more prone to being disabled by a EMP when the
cops are chasing ya.
-ANT
Shad Laws
> high-pressure hydraulic pump providing constant pressure to the valves,
with
> an electronic release similar to a fuel injection control unit.
>
If you're comparing a magnetic type of solenoid versus hydraulics, I think
that the solenoid would be much more effective. If you want a VW-ish
analogy (kinda), look at the max usable RPM of your Pertronix unit then
compare that to the max usable RPM of some hydraulic lifters :-) Yes, I
know, not a perfect analogy, but nevertheless electric is a better means.
And, it's more efficient - electrically operated magnetic devices (like
electric motors) can have a very high efficiency...
So, now we have a great actuating mechanism. Okay, but now how do we use it
to operate a valve setup? Do we still use poppet valves? As the turbine
engine shows, rotary motion is simpler and more efficient than reciprocating
motion.
If the issue is taking a spherical valve setup (like the Coates thing) and
adjusting duration and port size (analogous to lift), you could place an
orifice of adjustible size directly over the outlet of the spherical valves.
Longer in the direction of rotation increases duration, and you can even
control opening and closing seperately. Combining this dimension with those
in the other directions, you can also control the port size. Now you have a
fully adjustible valve mechanism :-)
That design eliminates reciprocating motion - a big plus. It also doesn't
have things sticking into the combustion chamber. This is another big
plus - now you can have much more idealized combustion chamber designs
without restrictions such as the need for 2-4 large, "flat," circular
regions for valves. However, I haven't studied enough about fluid flow to
know if this kind of mechanism would have any other inhibitors to good flow.
Then again, Coates probably has and the problems I foresee (which may,
admittingly, comprise an incomplete list) would also be there with his
design, which means he probably has already considered and eliminated many
of them.
Of course, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong :-) (alas -
another obscure reference...)
Shad
Searoy
> > high-pressure hydraulic pump providing constant pressure to the valves,
> with
> > an electronic release similar to a fuel injection control unit.
> >
>
> If you're comparing a magnetic type of solenoid versus hydraulics, I think
> that the solenoid would be much more effective. If you want a VW-ish
> analogy (kinda), look at the max usable RPM of your Pertronix unit then
> compare that to the max usable RPM of some hydraulic lifters :-) Yes, I
> know, not a perfect analogy, but nevertheless electric is a better means.
> And, it's more efficient - electrically operated magnetic devices (like
> electric motors) can have a very high efficiency...
But the Petronix has no parts moved by electricity, but rather just an
opening and closing circuit as the triggering mechanism rotates under
mechanical force Using electricity to move something that requires
significant force, like a highly sprung valve, is inefficient. Hydraulics
would provide more usable force to move the valves under sprung tension in
this case.
A better example is electric linear activators vs. hydraulic pistons.
Hydraulics provide better speed and smaller overall size for equal force.
> So, now we have a great actuating mechanism. Okay, but now how do we use
it
> to operate a valve setup? Do we still use poppet valves? As the turbine
> engine shows, rotary motion is simpler and more efficient than
reciprocating
> motion.
True. As I said, I think the rotating valve idea will be more efficient, if
combustion chanber pressures can be overcome, and the valve properly sealed.
This makes the entire hydraulic/electromagnetic debate moot.
> If the issue is taking a spherical valve setup (like the Coates thing) and
> adjusting duration and port size (analogous to lift), you could place an
> orifice of adjustible size directly over the outlet of the spherical
valves.
> Longer in the direction of rotation increases duration, and you can even
> control opening and closing seperately. Combining this dimension with
those
> in the other directions, you can also control the port size. Now you have
a
> fully adjustible valve mechanism :-)
A simpler operation I think would be better suited. Rather than have an
orifice change size, have a slotted "seat" that is larger on one side than
the other, running parallel to the axis of the rotating valve cylinder. For
short durations the rotating valve would be on the narrow end of the slot.
For more "lift" the rotating valve would move towards the wider end of the
slot. This would also affect duration some. The movement from narrow end
to wide end could be controlled by a simliar centrifugal mechanism used by
009 distributors.
To clarify, I am picturing a valve shaped like a lifter, spinning along it's
long axis, with a hole drilled perpendicular to it's axis which serves as
the valve opening. The opening and closing of the valve is accomplished
through the turing of the cylindrical valve. The bigger the hole, the
bigger the valve/longer the duration.
To adjust opening and closing sperately you would have a slot that twists
slightly around the radius of the rotating valve. It still gets wider near
the top, but also follows the curve of the valve around one direction or the
other, depending on if you desing it for earlier/later opening/closing.
While I feel there is great improvments in using some electronic parts in
engines, timed moving parts, such as valve train, should remain as simple as
possible, usually meaning mechanical.
I hope I've successfully described my thoughts so that you can see them. If
not, I'll work on another analogy, or a better description. Not having the
greatest minds eye, I sometimes have difficulty in describing things I have
not seen.
> That design eliminates reciprocating motion - a big plus. It also doesn't
> have things sticking into the combustion chamber. This is another big
> plus - now you can have much more idealized combustion chamber designs
> without restrictions such as the need for 2-4 large, "flat," circular
> regions for valves. However, I haven't studied enough about fluid flow to
> know if this kind of mechanism would have any other inhibitors to good
flow.
> Then again, Coates probably has and the problems I foresee (which may,
> admittingly, comprise an incomplete list) would also be there with his
> design, which means he probably has already considered and eliminated many
> of them.
I would expect a rotating cylinder to have less wear than a typical valve
train, and be able to achieve much higher RPMs, higher than a reciprocating
engine would probably be able to reach reliably.
Jim Mowreader
> Yep, that is one of the examples my teacher in vibration engineering class
> used when discussing the relevance of his class. Have you heard that in the
> F1 cars, those frequencies get so high that they have to abandon the use of
> springs? Apparently, they use little sacs of air instead. Don't know what
> they call this type of system.
Air, air bag, or air ride suspension. Really.
If y'all want to see what an air ride suspension looks like, go find a semi
truck. They use air ride suspension on those mainly because they want a
different amount of spring preload when the truck's loaded than they do when
it's empty. Those air ride systems have big coil springs on them, but semis
weigh 80,000 lbs fully loaded and a F1 car weighs maybe 1500.
Bug-Man
'cause we crash 'em a-lot :-)
--Eric
E-Mail: Bug...@sisna.com
Visit My Web-page: http://www.angelfire.com/nm/GoPed/VW.html
___
/___\
(o\ | /o) 1974 ORANGE SUPER BEETLE "Baggins"
U """ U
Tim Rogers <t...@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:QWmV4.7371$%P.5...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> Shad Laws <s-l...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
> news:8g3vvq$dv0$1...@news.acns.nwu.edu...
>
> > BTW, have you ever heard of the spherical valve system? It uses
rotating
> > cylinders with holes in them in place of poppet valves. Coates was the
> > developer of the technology (i.e. sealing) that allows this, IIRC.
There
> > are no springs, no valves and seats hammering on each other, no
camshaft,
> > etc. - just these rotating shafts. Maybe you could do a yahoo on it or
> > something, or perhaps someone from around here remembers what I'm
talking
> > about and knows where to find it...
>
> > Shad
> >
> <
> >
> Yrs. ago, I owned a model airplane engine which used a rotating cylinder
> valve (an Austrian co. named HP(?) made them). It had a disp. of .21 cu.
> in.(3.5cc), had less vibration & noise than a poppet valve engine of
> equivalent size. However, it didn't produce very good power. Some of the
> other guys said that it sounded like a flying sewing machine. Two stroke
> engines used a lot more fuel, producing more power & noise than either
type
> of four stroke! There was also a wankel style engine available from a
> Japanese co. which supposedly had an especially irritating sound when
> airborne.
> Tim Rogers - - - 70 bug, 86 vanagon
> th...@stny.rr.com
>
>
>
Geoffe Elias
(BTW, I read it while waiting for a haircut because it was the only automotive
magazine around and beggars can't be choosers). Apparently, you can order a
Coates conversion kit for your Chevy engine. I was pretty impressed with the
system when I first encountered it. Imagine: no more horsepower wasted to
overcome the force from the valve springs. That and also the BIG increase in
flow (no more poppet valve in the way). Unfortunately, this system seems only
applicable to engines designed with an overhead cam setup in mind. Thus, it
would be hard for us to "bolt-on" a spherical valve system on our air-cooled
engines.
Geoffe Elias
'74 Super Beetle
Shad Laws wrote:
> Hmm, I'd never heard of this type of system. Those little sacs must be
> under some good pressure to be able to act as strong springs :-)
>
> BTW, have you ever heard of the spherical valve system? It uses rotating
> cylinders with holes in them in place of poppet valves. Coates was the
> developer of the technology (i.e. sealing) that allows this, IIRC. There
> are no springs, no valves and seats hammering on each other, no camshaft,
> etc. - just these rotating shafts. Maybe you could do a yahoo on it or
> something, or perhaps someone from around here remembers what I'm talking
> about and knows where to find it...
>
> Shad
>
> Geoffe Elias <geof...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:39256374...@home.com...
> > Yep, that is one of the examples my teacher in vibration engineering class
> used
> > when discussing the relevance of his class. Have you heard that in the F1
> cars,
> > those frequencies get so high that they have to abandon the use of
> springs?
> > Apparently, they use little sacs of air instead. Don't know what they
> call this
> > type of system.
> >
Tim Rogers
> BTW, have you ever heard of the spherical valve system? It uses rotating
> cylinders with holes in them in place of poppet valves. Coates was the
> developer of the technology (i.e. sealing) that allows this, IIRC. There
> are no springs, no valves and seats hammering on each other, no camshaft,
> etc. - just these rotating shafts. Maybe you could do a yahoo on it or
> something, or perhaps someone from around here remembers what I'm talking
> about and knows where to find it...
> Shad
>
<
>
Geoffe Elias
"LOOK MOM, NO CAMSHAFT, The Coates Spherical Valve Engine" in the October '99
issue.
Geoffe Elias
'74 Super Beetle
Geoffe Elias wrote:
> Yeah, I have seen an article on the Coates system in a Chevy *ack!* magazine
> (BTW, I read it while waiting for a haircut because it was the only automotive
> magazine around and beggars can't be choosers). Apparently, you can order a
> Coates conversion kit for your Chevy engine. I was pretty impressed with the
> system when I first encountered it. Imagine: no more horsepower wasted to
> overcome the force from the valve springs. That and also the BIG increase in
> flow (no more poppet valve in the way). Unfortunately, this system seems only
> applicable to engines designed with an overhead cam setup in mind. Thus, it
> would be hard for us to "bolt-on" a spherical valve system on our air-cooled
> engines.
>
> Geoffe Elias
> '74 Super Beetle
>
> Shad Laws wrote:
>
> > Hmm, I'd never heard of this type of system. Those little sacs must be
> > under some good pressure to be able to act as strong springs :-)
> >
> > BTW, have you ever heard of the spherical valve system? It uses rotating
> > cylinders with holes in them in place of poppet valves. Coates was the
> > developer of the technology (i.e. sealing) that allows this, IIRC. There
> > are no springs, no valves and seats hammering on each other, no camshaft,
> > etc. - just these rotating shafts. Maybe you could do a yahoo on it or
> > something, or perhaps someone from around here remembers what I'm talking
> > about and knows where to find it...
> >
> > Shad
> >
Searoy
> >high-pressure hydraulic pump providing constant pressure to the valves,
with
> >an electronic release similar to a fuel injection control unit.
>
>
> A hydraulic pump can consume quite a bit more power than a solenoid that
is
> active only for a split second (the pump would be on a 100% duty cycle).
A single solenoid would be on for a split second, and all 8 of them (for 4
cyl) would be on quite a bit more. Besides, it takes more energy to turn
something on and off than it does to keep it on.
I was also considering a mechanical pump, with electric solenoids
controlling the delivery only. Being smaller and less powerful than
solenoids which would operate the valves, they will take less engery.
Excess pressure would be stored for starting in a reservoir.
> Hydraulics are notorious for developing leaks. The original prototype
Tucker
> engine used a hydraulic "camshaft" but suffered from air getting into the
> system which made the timing go nuts.
True enough, although modern systems are less notorious for this. After
all, we all rely on hydraulics to stop cars and help turn the wheel.
> Electronic solenoids are far far easier to integrate with the engine
management
> system (try doing that with hydraulics, you'd still need electrical
solenoids
> as well as sensors for position and pressure---more power consumed, and
more
> things to go wrong).
With a mechanical pump and mechanical pressure regulator some of those
systems vanish. Electric sollenoids would still be needed, but only as
gates to allow/prevent the flow of fluid, much like a fuel injector.
> Wires are much easier to plumb than hydraulic lines.
Integrated channels with the head casting handle the plumbing, leaving few
external metal hoses for the hydraulics, the rest being wires for the
electrical control solenoids.
> I could go on and on, but you get the idear.
Go on and on, and let's see if I can keep up. I admit to not having a
completed system engineered in may head, so "holes" in the idea are expected
(to match the ones in my head).
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>cyl) would be on quite a bit more. Besides, it takes more energy to turn
>something on and off than it does to keep it on.
You forgot about the pint I made earlier regarding recovering the voltage spike
that occurs when a solenoid is de-enegized. This can be captured by a capacitor
which would then be discharged to aid in firing the next cycle (or solenoid).
This is nothing new, there are some electric motors out there that do this very
thing and are super efficient. I'm not talking about over unity here, just
conservation of energy.
You neglected my 100% bonafide point about integrating engine management
controls. There's just now way a hydraulic system is ever going to respond as
quickly as an electronic one. Remember, electrons move near the speed of light.
I recall reading somewhere about a liquid (slurry?) that became more dense when
a charge was applied to it. I had the thought that this could be used to
increase valve lift by installing this device between the cam and the valve.
Apply some power and voila! More lift (and slightly more duration). Whadya
think about dat? Has a million potential applications. Think about the
suspension....
-ANT
Searoy
4
> >cyl) would be on quite a bit more. Besides, it takes more energy to turn
> >something on and off than it does to keep it on.
>
> You forgot about the pint I made earlier regarding recovering the voltage
spike
> that occurs when a solenoid is de-enegized. This can be captured by a
capacitor
> which would then be discharged to aid in firing the next cycle (or
solenoid).
> This is nothing new, there are some electric motors out there that do this
very
> thing and are super efficient. I'm not talking about over unity here, just
> conservation of energy.
A good point, worth considering. I had forgotten. That was last week!
> You neglected my 100% bonafide point about integrating engine management
> controls. There's just now way a hydraulic system is ever going to respond
as
> quickly as an electronic one. Remember, electrons move near the speed of
light.
A hydraulic system CAN act as quickly, or more quickly, than an electric
system or similar size. The size an electric solenoid would have to be to
move the valve would make an enormous dent in space available under the
hood. Each valve would require a solenoid, mulitplying this problem. With
the hydraulic system, there would be one hydraulic pump, and while that one
would be svereal times larger than a single solenoid, there would only be
one, therefore take up less total space.
Second, for equal size an electric solenoid would be weaker, therefore
slower or restricted in lift and/or duration compared to the hydraulic one.
I did not neglect your post about engine management. The lift in my
theorized hydraulic system would be controlled by electrical solenoids.
Only the force would be provided by hydraulic pressure, constant hydraulic
pressure. The electric solenoids would be "fired" in a similar manner to
fuel injectors, via electrical signals from the central control unit.
Both your system and mine contain solenoids and electronic controls. Mine u
ses hydraulic pressure to open the valves, yours uses electrical energy
converted to mechanical energy. My solenoids only control the delivery of
the pressure.
The electric solenoid is simply some type of electric motor. If it's a
rotating motor, then it will be of similar design to an electric
engine/generator. If it's a linear motor then it will be of similar design
to a speaker's voice coil. Both can be made sufficiently strong and fast,
but to have both requires significant power and size.
A single hydraulic pump providing a constant pressure to a closed system
would be smaller in overall size for equal strength and speed. The more
cylinders you have, the smaller (in comparisson) it would be. Rather than a
solenoid having to respond quickly and repeatedly providing as much as 200lb
force, it would merely be required to open or close a smaller valve. While
these pressures too would be high, they can be aided mechanically by spring
loading the valve, much as the Bosche CIS injector is (which actually has no
electrical input, and relies solely on pressure to keep it open). Overall
the total system should be considerably smaller, and require less hp from
the engine than a totally electrical valve train control system.
> I recall reading somewhere about a liquid (slurry?) that became more dense
when
> a charge was applied to it. I had the thought that this could be used to
> increase valve lift by installing this device between the cam and the
valve.
> Apply some power and voila! More lift (and slightly more duration). Whadya
> think about dat? Has a million potential applications. Think about the
> suspension....
If the liquid became more dense, then it would take up less volume at the
same mass, thereby providing less lift. However, it could still be used,
only in an opposite manner. Why install it between the cam and lifter at
all? Why not use it to replace the cam and lifter altogether, using the
liquid's expanding/contracting properties to move the valve directly?
Whadaya think about dat?
Searoy
> Yrs. ago, I owned a model airplane engine which used a rotating cylinder
> valve (an Austrian co. named HP(?) made them). It had a disp. of .21 cu.
> in.(3.5cc), had less vibration & noise than a poppet valve engine of
> equivalent size. However, it didn't produce very good power. Some of the
> other guys said that it sounded like a flying sewing machine. Two stroke
> engines used a lot more fuel, producing more power & noise than either
type
> of four stroke! There was also a wankel style engine available from a
> Japanese co. which supposedly had an especially irritating sound when
> airborne.
I remember seeing the rotary engine in model mags. Never had the cash to
get one, or rich enough friends to hear one run. Would have loved to
though. I wonder if it's still made, or available second hand?
Shad Laws
A strong inductor, placed close to your "valve," can create a strong
magnetic field whose polarity you can oscillate... result? No valve
springs... the magnet one way throws the valve open and the other way closes
it...
Anyone have a link or synopsis or something of how the BMW system works?
Shad
Searoy <sea...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cOhW4.20494$T41.4...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>move the valve would make an enormous dent in space available under the
>hood.
>Second, for equal size an electric solenoid would be weaker, therefore
>slower or restricted in lift and/or duration compared to the hydraulic one.
You would not need nearly as high a tension valve spring it you need one at
all. High tension springs are required to reduce valve float due to many things
including the mass and harmonics of a valve train. If all you have is a plunger
acting upon the valve all the other bits go away. You could even make the valve
stem itself become the plunger and have it pass right thru the solenoid. Very
small and powerful (or certainly powerful enough).
-ANT
Searoy
> An idea:
> A strong inductor, placed close to your "valve," can create a strong
> magnetic field whose polarity you can oscillate... result? No valve
> springs... the magnet one way throws the valve open and the other way
closes
> it...
>
> Anyone have a link or synopsis or something of how the BMW system works?
>
> Shad
I have seen pics and read an articel about the prototype. It looks just
like a voice coil, only a really huge long-throw voice coil, requiring a
huge neodymium magnet and lots of power. They use a spring to close the
valve, and the coil to open it.
Using the speaker as an example, fast moving voice coils push smaller
diaphragms (cones, domes, etc.), which move less air. Large cones push more
air, and need bigger, more powerful magnets and voice coils, but due to
their mass/power ratio move slower/play lower. Imagine how big it would
have to be to provide adequate force on the valve, even without the spring,
and move as fast as needed.
And it would have to have some sort of spring, even speakers have that.
It's called the surround. It keeps the cone and voice coil from shooting
out of the gap after just one hit.
Searoy
you wrap it in wire and pass electricity through the wire so that it reacts
to the magnet based on polarity. That is a voice coil. Imagine the head of
the valve as the speaker's cone. Look how big a speaker is compared to a
valve including it's spring and rocker. The magnet/voice coil assembly
would have to be HUGE to provide adequate pressure to prevent compression
leakage, not to mention that once the valve shoots out it wants to keep
going out, so now the magnet/voice coil has to stop and reverse that
movement. As heavy as a valve is it ain't easy. Hell, speaker
manufacturers are STILL dealing with that issue, and speaker cones aren't
1/10th the mass. Why do you think really good speakers cost so much (OK,
that's only one reason, but you get the idea).
--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
69 bug (parts)
66 bug (daily driver project)
ANTI SPAM STUFF: frau...@psinet.com swee...@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov
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ANT The Monarch of Menace <s2...@aol.computer> wrote in message
news:20000523084013...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>you wrap it in wire and pass electricity through the wire so that it reacts
>to the magnet based on polarity. That is a voice coil. Imagine the head of
>the valve as the speaker's cone. Look how big a speaker is compared to a
>valve including it's spring and rocker. The magnet/voice coil assembly
>would have to be HUGE to provide adequate pressure to prevent compression
>leakage, not to mention that once the valve shoots out it wants to keep
>going out, so now the magnet/voice coil has to stop and reverse that
>movement. As heavy as a valve is it ain't easy. Hell, speaker
>manufacturers are STILL dealing with that issue, and speaker cones aren't
>1/10th the mass. Why do you think really good speakers cost so much (OK,
>that's only one reason, but you get the idea).
>
I unnerstand what you're saying, but I have an article somewhere from the
early/mid sixties about an experimental solenoid actuated valvetrain on an
American V8. Using stone age electronics they were able to make it work, and
they solkenoids were not that large either. I think you just don't like the
idea. You're just a big meanie and I'm going to go and cry now, as I load
fresh bullets.
-ANT
Searoy
So I'm defending my idea? THPPPPPPPP!!!!
You're just a big meanie and I'm going to go and cry now, as I load
> fresh bullets.
Careful who you challenge...You don't know me, now do you?
I'm not some silly Swede you can push around... I'm a well armed and well
trained US Army Vet. My wife was an Army Armorer, and WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A
BOY IN 20 WEEKS (yea!). (Just thought I'd drop that in there 'cause I'm so
excited.)
You were saying?
Shad Laws
come help you out. Your worries will be over soon.
Shad
ANT The Monarch of Menace <s2...@aol.computer> wrote in message
news:20000523154342...@ng-md1.aol.com...
> >So you're taking a valve, with it's stem passing through a magnetic ring,
so
> >you wrap it in wire and pass electricity through the wire so that it
reacts
> >to the magnet based on polarity. That is a voice coil. Imagine the head
of
> >the valve as the speaker's cone. Look how big a speaker is compared to a
> >valve including it's spring and rocker. The magnet/voice coil assembly
> >would have to be HUGE to provide adequate pressure to prevent compression
> >leakage, not to mention that once the valve shoots out it wants to keep
> >going out, so now the magnet/voice coil has to stop and reverse that
> >movement. As heavy as a valve is it ain't easy. Hell, speaker
> >manufacturers are STILL dealing with that issue, and speaker cones aren't
> >1/10th the mass. Why do you think really good speakers cost so much (OK,
> >that's only one reason, but you get the idea).
> >
>
> I unnerstand what you're saying, but I have an article somewhere from the
> early/mid sixties about an experimental solenoid actuated valvetrain on an
> American V8. Using stone age electronics they were able to make it work,
and
> they solkenoids were not that large either. I think you just don't like
the
> idea. You're just a big meanie and I'm going to go and cry now, as I load
> fresh bullets.
> -ANT
>
>
Shad Laws
> trained US Army Vet. My wife was an Army Armorer, and WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
A
> BOY IN 20 WEEKS (yea!). (Just thought I'd drop that in there 'cause I'm so
> excited.)
Congrads, Searoy!
Shad
Searoy
Thanks!
We just found out today that he's a boy. My little girl (2) is pretty
stoked too, not that she really understands.
Now I'll have two kids to make VW nuts out of. After all, they only get to
drive the cars they help me build. Them's the rules! Let's see.. A Baja
Pickup Bug for the boy, and a Custom Super for the girl, both with mild T4
mills. I can't wait!
--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
66 bug (daily driver project)
Shad Laws
> Congrats on your ankle biter. After wifey is more betterer can she cut me
a
> deal on some C4? <G> Could always use an extra Laws rocket too.
>
I'm a missin somethin... what's a Laws rocket?
Shad
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>You're just a big meanie and I'm going to go and cry now, as I load
>> fresh bullets.
>
2 words Re Lax
>I'm not some silly Swede you can push around... I'm a well armed and well
>trained US Army Vet. My wife was an Army Armorer, and WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A
>BOY IN 20 WEEKS (yea!). (Just thought I'd drop that in there 'cause I'm so
>excited.)
Congrats on your ankle biter. After wifey is more betterer can she cut me a
deal on some C4? <G> Could always use an extra Laws rocket too.
>
>You were saying?
I dunno, duz anyone even care? I sure don't!
-ANT
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>come help you out. Your worries will be over soon.
Great! I need another vacation. They serve a fantastic Tapioca pudding, trouble
is I can't get a stiffie after eating it for some reason.
-ANT
Jan Andersson
>
> > I'm not some silly Swede you can push around... I'm a well armed and well
> > trained US Army Vet. My wife was an Army Armorer, and WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
> A
> > BOY IN 20 WEEKS (yea!). (Just thought I'd drop that in there 'cause I'm so
> > excited.)
>
>
> Shad
Congratulatioins from Finland too, a bit early still but just in case we
miss the event. :-)
We could put a nice army team together with all the ex-army-somethings
in ramva.. Uncontrollable and (mentally) unstable, but an interesting
group of nutcases with all kinds of weapons.. LOL
Jan
Jan Andersson
>
> >
> >You're just a big meanie and I'm going to go and cry now, as I load
> >> fresh bullets.
> >
> >Careful who you challenge...You don't know me, now do you?
>
> 2 words Re Lax
>
> >trained US Army Vet. My wife was an Army Armorer, and WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A
> >BOY IN 20 WEEKS (yea!). (Just thought I'd drop that in there 'cause I'm so
> >excited.)
>
> deal on some C4?
LOL
I spent all my leftovers about a year ago, it was getting a bit old and
some of that stuff gets a bit unstable with age.. whee!
Jan
Jan Andersson
>
They used to do that in our army too, in the days past. But careful
field studies by me revealed that it is no longer used. It helped that
our library doors could be locked from the inside, and nobody really
ever went to the library in the army if they had any free time.....
hehehehe.. my ex came for a visit and.. umm.. nevermind. (Dunno what the
stuff is named in english that they add to food to keep us guys less
happy.. it seems that they have stopped doing that)
Jan
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>field studies by me revealed that it is no longer used. It helped that
>our library doors could be locked from the inside, and nobody really
>ever went to the library in the army if they had any free time.....
>hehehehe.. my ex came for a visit and.. umm.. nevermind. (Dunno what the
>stuff is named in english that they add to food to keep us guys less
>happy.. it seems that they have stopped doing that)
You nasty nasty man! <G> The stuff they use (used?) here is called Salt Peter
(sp?). I don't recommend it's useage while on a honeymoon!!
-ANT
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>theNew Army
>tries to win wars and avoid lawsuits. Viagra is given to troops
>daily to prevent them from accidently rolling out of their beds and anyone
>with a room temperature IQ can operate a missle battery. Look out enemy,
>here they come.
Are they coming from the Viagra? Look out farmer's daughters......
-ANT (don't believe anything that the sheep says!)
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>I'm a missin somethin... what's a Laws rocket?
Your'e missing some strands of DNA! A Laws rocket is sorta like Bazooka on
drugs. Comes in handy in shopping mall parking lots.
-ANT
Jan Andersson
>
> >
Oh THAT thing! Oh YEA! That ROCKS! We call it by a different name. But I
was never allowed to touch one.. Wonder why. I only fired the bazooka,
it was all cool and stuff, but I SO wanted to try the "Big Mother".
Damn.
Jan
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>At the very least, DON'T EAT THE PUDDING!
"If you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding?" Where's that from?
In this instance that could be changed to "If you eat your pudding you won't be
able to beat your meat!"
-ANT (pardon me while I puke now)
Jan Andersson
>
At the very least, DON'T EAT THE PUDDING!
Jan
joe locicero
Jan Andersson wrote:
> ANT The Monarch of Menace wrote:
> >
> > >It's okay ANT... it really is okay... I'm calling the men in white coats to
> > >come help you out. Your worries will be over soon.
> >
> > Great! I need another vacation. They serve a fantastic Tapioca pudding, trouble
> > is I can't get a stiffie after eating it for some reason.
> > -ANT
>
> They used to do that in our army too, in the days past. But careful
> field studies by me revealed that it is no longer used. It helped that
> our library doors could be locked from the inside, and nobody really
> ever went to the library in the army if they had any free time.....
> hehehehe.. my ex came for a visit and.. umm.. nevermind. (Dunno what the
> stuff is named in english that they add to food to keep us guys less
> happy.. it seems that they have stopped doing that)
>
> Jan
I think they called it saltpeter (how fitting). Thats all changed now as theNew Army
tries to win wars and avoid lawsuits. Viagra is given to troops
daily to prevent them from accidently rolling out of their beds and anyone
with a room temperature IQ can operate a missle battery. Look out enemy,
here they come.
Joe
Jan Andersson
>
> >
>
Dunno, but I'm not that flexible anyway.
> In this instance that could be changed to "If you eat your pudding you won't be
> able to beat your meat!"
> -ANT (pardon me while I puke now)
I'm righ there with you, puking. Thank you for the beautiful visuals.
:-)
Jan
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>from?
>
>Dunno, but I'm not that flexible anyway.
That's a "classic" rock song by the Moody Blues (I think).
>I'm righ there with you, puking. Thank you for the beautiful visuals.
That's known as word pictures. At least in the heyday of radio shows that's
what thye called thems. Good evening ladies and gentleman and all the ships at
sea.....
-ANT
Shad Laws
Driver, or VWs in general? Any and all explanations I can think of scare
me. A lot. :-)
Shad
ANT The Monarch of Menace <s2...@aol.computer> wrote in message
news:20000524024726...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >
> >At the very least, DON'T EAT THE PUDDING!
>
> "If you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding?" Where's that
from?
>
Shad Laws
that's
> what thye called thems. Good evening ladies and gentleman and all the
ships at
> sea.....
> -ANT
The seamen, right? No homonyms now! Then we'll be right back to the bad
word pictures...
Shad
Jan Andersson
>
> Exactly how does this discussion relate to New Tech Valve, a 1776 Daily
> Driver, or VWs in general? Any and all explanations I can think of scare
> me. A lot. :-)
ROTFLMAO! <chuckles> etc.etc..
jan :-)
John Henry
ANT The Monarch of Menace wrote:
> ?
> ?At the very least, DON'T EAT THE PUDDING!
>
> "If you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding?" Where's that from?
Pink Floyd, "The Wall"
>
>
> In this instance that could be changed to "If you eat your pudding you won't be
> able to beat your meat!"
> -ANT (pardon me while I puke now)
--
John Henry
---------------
Visit the "BugShop" at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/4000
Forget World Peace. "Visualize" using your damn turn signals.
John Henry
joe locicero wrote:
> Jan Andersson wrote:
>
> ? ANT The Monarch of Menace wrote:
> ? ?
> ? ? ?It's okay ANT... it really is okay... I'm calling the men in white coats to
> ? ? ?come help you out. Your worries will be over soon.
> ? ?
> ? ? Great! I need another vacation. They serve a fantastic Tapioca pudding, trouble
> ? ? is I can't get a stiffie after eating it for some reason.
> ? ? -ANT
> ?
> ? They used to do that in our army too, in the days past. But careful
> ? field studies by me revealed that it is no longer used. It helped that
> ? our library doors could be locked from the inside, and nobody really
> ? ever went to the library in the army if they had any free time.....
> ? hehehehe.. my ex came for a visit and.. umm.. nevermind. (Dunno what the
> ? stuff is named in english that they add to food to keep us guys less
> ? happy.. it seems that they have stopped doing that)
> ?
> ? Jan
>
> I think they called it saltpeter (how fitting).
Yep. Actually Potassium Nitrate. Widely used in agriculture (livestock, "socailizing
control") and also a key ingredient (75%) of gunpowder. No, I'm not an anarchist, but I
did make gunpowder as a kid. Made "Roman Candles" with pipes and marbles. Little did I
know I was actually making pipe bombs.....
> Thats all changed now as theNew Army
> tries to win wars and avoid lawsuits. Viagra is given to troops
> daily to prevent them from accidently rolling out of their beds and anyone
> with a room temperature IQ can operate a missle battery. Look out enemy,
> here they come.
> Joe
--
joe locicero
John Henry wrote:
Yep, Yep, it makes meat real red and fresh looking especially in sausage.
Searoy
me
> a
> >
>
Actually, it's a LAW. Light Anti-tank Weapon. They are a Vietnam era man
portable, shoulder fired fire and forget high explosive missile in a compact
tube launcher that is non-reloadable. Grab, pull, aim, fire, throw away.
It is good against emplacements and light armor like old APC, but modern
armor is resistant to it. A well placed shot to the track, turret,
undercarriage or sometimes rear apron will disable an M2 Bradley, but not a
real tank. They are as dangerous to those around the firer as they are to
the target, and it's kinda like aiming a balloon (blow it up, don't tie the
knot, point it at someone and let go).
Imagine a bazooka. It's like that in the simplest way, only a bit more
modern.
They have been replaced by the AT-4, which has a shaped charge explosive and
has a higher explosive charge to boot, so will take out all but the most
formidable armor. It too is fire and forget, but I think it is reloadable.
Anything bigger and you want a TOW, which will destroy any armor on the
battle field. Period. It can be fired from a Jeep or Hum-V. It's awesome.
Armorers don't do that. They simply maintain the unit's personal weapons,
M16s, M9s, M60s, NVGs, very little ammo, no explosives or other ordinance.
How many of your wives can disassemble and reassemble an M60 in 90 seconds?
Searoy
"socailizing
> control") and also a key ingredient (75%) of gunpowder. No, I'm not an
anarchist, but I
> did make gunpowder as a kid. Made "Roman Candles" with pipes and marbles.
Little did I
actually, 75% is a bit high. I though it was more like 5 parts sulfur, 5
parts charcoal and 7 parts saltpeter. Whatever percent that comes out to.
I've been watching "Tales of the Gun" too much.
ANT The Monarch of Menace
I don't know, but I had a girlfriend that had been an MP in the Army. When she
was nekkid I would "stand"at Ah-ten-shun!
-ANT
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>did make gunpowder as a kid. Made "Roman Candles" with pipes and marbles.
>Little did I
>know I was actually making pipe bombs.....
>
Yeah, but you haven't seen your marbles since then, hava ya? <G>
-ANT
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>Driver, or VWs in general? Any and all explanations I can think of scare
>me. A lot. :-)
BOO!
-ANT (Hoo)
ANT The Monarch of Menace
I could say something right now, but ewwww!
-ANT
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>word pictures...
You suck! <G>
-ANT
John Henry
a sock, then sifted) and 10% Sulfur. Shoot, I'll probably get sued no for
putting explosive directions on the internet.
KIDS! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE EXPLOSIVES AT HOME!!!!
There.
Searoy wrote:
> > Yep. Actually Potassium Nitrate. Widely used in agriculture (livestock,
> "socailizing
> > control") and also a key ingredient (75%) of gunpowder. No, I'm not an
> anarchist, but I
> > did make gunpowder as a kid. Made "Roman Candles" with pipes and marbles.
> Little did I
> > know I was actually making pipe bombs.....
>
> actually, 75% is a bit high. I though it was more like 5 parts sulfur, 5
> parts charcoal and 7 parts saltpeter. Whatever percent that comes out to.
>
> I've been watching "Tales of the Gun" too much.
>
> --
> *** Teach a Man to Fish ***
> Searoy
>
> 66 bug (daily driver project)
>
> ANTI SPAM STUFF: frau...@psinet.com swee...@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov
> admin@loopback $LOGIN@localhost $LOGNAME@localhost $USER@localhost
> $USER@$HOST -h1024@localhost ro...@mailloop.com
--
joe locicero
ANT The Monarch of Menace wrote:
So potassium nitrate make you shy, eh? Joe
Jan Andersson
>
> > > Congrats on your ankle biter. After wifey is more betterer can she cut
> me
> > a
> > > deal on some C4? <G> Could always use an extra Laws rocket too.
> > >
> >
> > I'm a missin somethin... what's a Laws rocket?
>
> Actually, it's a LAW. Light Anti-tank Weapon. They are a Vietnam era man
> portable, shoulder fired fire and forget high explosive missile in a compact
> tube launcher that is non-reloadable. Grab, pull, aim, fire, throw away.
> It is good against emplacements and light armor like old APC, but modern
> armor is resistant to it. A well placed shot to the track, turret,
> undercarriage or sometimes rear apron will disable an M2 Bradley, but not a
> real tank. They are as dangerous to those around the firer as they are to
> the target, and it's kinda like aiming a balloon (blow it up, don't tie the
> knot, point it at someone and let go).
>
> Imagine a bazooka. It's like that in the simplest way, only a bit more
> modern.
>
> They have been replaced by the AT-4, which has a shaped charge explosive and
> has a higher explosive charge to boot, so will take out all but the most
> formidable armor. It too is fire and forget, but I think it is reloadable.
> Anything bigger and you want a TOW, which will destroy any armor on the
> battle field. Period. It can be fired from a Jeep or Hum-V. It's awesome.
>
> Armorers don't do that. They simply maintain the unit's personal weapons,
> M16s, M9s, M60s, NVGs, very little ammo, no explosives or other ordinance.
>
What, did she take a coffee break?
jan
Jan Andersson
>
> I got 75% Nitrate, 15% Charcoal (grill briquettes beat up with a hammer while in
> a sock, then sifted) and 10% Sulfur. Shoot, I'll probably get sued no for
> putting explosive directions on the internet.
>
> KIDS! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAKE EXPLOSIVES AT HOME!!!!
>
> There.
>
Please add " and ADULTS" to that...:-) They are sometimes more dangerous
than.. than.. than us kids..lol
Jan
ANT The Monarch of Menace
You talkin to me? Too late!
-ANT
Kurt Miller
Nachi11744 wrote:
> > So Kurt what's it like in Indonesia? Is it a third world country?
> >Oh and the News on NBC was talking smake about Indonesia the other day.
> >
>
OK, I'm going to insert a few things in between here and try to be
moderate.
Yes, Indonesia is a developing country (call it 3rd world if you want).
And to comment on the comment below, it is rather polluted here in Jakarta.
Anyone from Jakarta can tell you that.
There are lots of VW on the road and they are becoming something of a
collector items. If you are looking for a Ghia, you can expect to start
paying in the order of $7,000 not even guarnteeing good condition. Type I's
are still affordable, going for as low as $1,000.
As for the comment about Lamborgini, it WAS owned by one of the former
presiden't children. Anyone who has read about Indonesia in the past few
years will know about the wealth of the family of the former president.
Ownership of that company doesn't really mean anything, it was still an
Italian company.
Also, yes, Indonesia does produce a small twin prop airplane. I would
be hard pressed to say that it was designed by Indoneisa. I've been told
that there was a strong Spanish influence in the design, and that the C of
the CN-235 stands for Cesna.
In all, Indonesia is developing. They still have a ways to go, but they
also have a pretty well developed infrastructure system in Jakarta (outside
Jakarta is another story).
Also, to tell you about the fanatics of VW in Indonesia, you could look
at vw-indonesia.com. It tells about the attempt of VW fans here to get back
the record of number of VW's in a single place (it's been held by Indonesia
twice I guess). The last attempt in April failed with only 400 some VW's
showing up (they were hoping to get 2,000).
Anyway, all in all, it's an interesting place to live and work. There
are good points and bad points like anything or anywhere else in the world.
>
> smake ? must be a 3rd. world pollutant.
> Perhaps it would interest you to know that Lamborghini was owned by an
> Indonesian company and they manufacture their own small twin turboprop
> transport aircraft.
> Not that I am hitting you over the head with some 3rd. world facts, you
> understand......(heheheh)
> Nachi
Regards,
Kurt Miller - Jakarta Indonesia
Kurt Miller
Kurt Miller
If you want to start buying parts here in Jakarta for your VW, you have
to learn a whole new vocabulary.
For example:
Flywheel - roda gila (literally crazy wheel)
valve - clap (maybe because of the noise it makes)
transmission - versneling
machine - mesin
tire - ban
rim / mag - velk
fender - spakboard
brake - ram
type I - kodok (literally frog)
type II - combi (some also call it roti - loaf of bread)
Helps to know the vocab
> So Kurt what's it like in Indonesia? Is it a third world country?
> Oh and the News on NBC was talking smake about Indonesia the other day.
>
> In article <B548B695.EC49%xd...@mindspring.com>,
> Jim Mowreader <xd...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Kurt Miller sends:
> >
> > > Just thinking, again. Is a 1776 better, or a stroker in the 1800cc
> > > range? I'm looking for something that is driveable, not an all out
> race car
> > > though
> >
> > It's cheaper to do a 1776--69mm stroke rods are less expensive than
> longer
> > ones, and more common; 69mm stroke cranks are definitely cheaper than
> > longer-stroke cranks; and there's less machining involved. (If you're
> going
> > to up the stroke you're probably going to up the bore as well; the
> > difference in price between the 85.5 and 90.5 p&c sets is not huge.)
> And a
> > 1776 is plenty driveable.
> >
> > Bore increase gives you a power increase that's slanted more toward
> > horsepower; stroke increase inclines the power increase toward more
> torque.
> > --
> >
> > --jmowreader
> >
> > 74 SB
> >
> > VW engine parts list: http://www.macsalon.org/howtos/vwengine.html
> >
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Shad Laws
Shad
Kurt Miller <mil...@nospam.cbn.net.id> wrote in message
news:392E7638...@nospam.cbn.net.id...