Carb / Cam / head choice for 2007cc - recomendations?
Kurt Miller
I am in the process of building a 2007cc (90.5 x 78.4) engine.
I have some of the basics purchased, like the P/C (using the B
stroker type), crank, case (being machined at Rimco), Clutch pressure
plate 1700 KEP, used German doghouse cooler, total seal second rings,
scat I beam rods, scat gland nut, standard weight flywheel (used -
resurfaced at Rimco), remote oil filter locator, and a few other things.
The parts I am debating about are the CAM, rockers, Carbs and
heads.
The car is going to be a daily driver, and I live in a large city,
so it is not uncommon to see some stop and go driving, so a smooth idle
and drive ability are important. But I also want it to have enough power
to have some FUN with (obviously the reason for building the engine in
the first place).
Here are my issues in summary (details below)
Cam: standard or ratio grind, 110, 120, or FK series, and which one.
Heads: CB 044 mags with port and polish, or 040's from Aircooled.net
Carbs: kadrons, Weber 40's, Weber 44's
Clutch plate: anyone use the one from Aircooled.net
pushrods: what determines if I can use standard length rods, or if I have
to cut my own?
Transmission: any suggested upgrades or gear ratios? I am running 195 /
65 -15's on the rear end. It has a 1969 swing axle (it's not an American
based car).
For the CAM, what is the difference between going with a standard
lifter grind like and Engle 110, 120, etc. and small ratio rockers like
1.1 or 1.25, or going with a Engle grind that is meant for HIGH lift
rockers like the the FK series. If you do the math, the lift ends up
being about the same, so is there an advantage to one or the other?
Also, which CAM should I be thinking about, 110, 120, others?
Any recommendations for HEADS? I am thinking about getting some
from either CB Performance 044 Mags with port and polish, or possibly
some 040 from Aircooled Net.
At one time I read comments from someone saying that the 04X
series heads from other vendors were no good, and the only head to use
for high performance modifications was the 040. Well, then I purchased
the tech articles of Gene Berg. He even comments that the 044 Mags are a
good head. That must mean something, as he is very critical of other
products.
So, any suggestions?
Next carbs. At one time I was thinking of going with some Kadrons
to keep the cost lower on the project. But I've seen lots of posts
recommending for large displacement engines that Weber 44 or 40's are the
way to go. I guess for the price, 44's would be the choice as it is
either buy 40's and jet them rich or buy 44's and jet them lean right?
What is the difference between the Weber kits that people are
selling? I would guess there are linkages from CB and Gene Berg, and
EMPI. Any recommendations?
Next is the clutch plate. Aircooled.net has one that claims it is
the ultimate for street performance as it provides grabbing power, with
enough slip to keep your transmission alive.
I am looking for experience of those of you who have done this before. I
have built two standard engines, but never a High Perf. one before. I
didn't want to just order a crate engine though. I think there is much
more satisfaction to building your own engine.
If possible please e-mail me your replies as well as posting to
this group as sometimes there are LONG delays in my news feed (from an
Asian ISP).
Thanks in Advance
Kurt Miller - mil...@cbn.net.id.nospam (remove the nospam for replies)
G.W. East
--
Till The Next Time..........,
G.W. East
http://www.gwsvws.com
G...@gwsvws.com
"Kurt Miller" <millerk...@cbn.net.id> wrote in message
news:MPG.15f2c8c06...@nntp.cbn.net.id...
>
> I am in the process of building a 2007cc (90.5 x 78.4) engine.
>
> I have some of the basics purchased, like the P/C (using the B
> stroker type), crank, case (being machined at Rimco), Clutch pressure
> plate 1700 KEP, used German doghouse cooler, total seal second rings,
> scat I beam rods, scat gland nut, standard weight flywheel (used -
> resurfaced at Rimco), remote oil filter locator, and a few other things.
>
> The parts I am debating about are the CAM, rockers, Carbs and
> heads.
>
> The car is going to be a daily driver, and I live in a large city,
> so it is not uncommon to see some stop and go driving, so a smooth idle
> and drive ability are important. But I also want it to have enough power
> to have some FUN with (obviously the reason for building the engine in
> the first place).
>
>
> Here are my issues in summary (details below)
>
> Cam: standard or ratio grind, 110, 120, or FK series, and which one.
Pretty much depends on your performance needs.
>
> Heads: CB 044 mags with port and polish, or 040's from Aircooled.net
I'm very happy with my 044 Mags, very good head for the money. But again,
John's Series heads are kick ass, so if you want more performance I'd
recommend those.
>
> Carbs: kadrons, Weber 40's, Weber 44's
Randy's 40's seem to do very well on his 2176, I'm running 45 Dells and love
them on my 2176.
>
> Clutch plate: anyone use the one from Aircooled.net
No I haven't, but if it's from John it has to be good. I'm using a 2300lb.
Kennedy setup.
>
> pushrods: what determines if I can use standard length rods, or if I have
> to cut my own?
You'll probably have to cut your own, valve train geometry along with
cylinder shims for compression ratio is what determines this.
>
> Transmission: any suggested upgrades or gear ratios? I am running 195 /
> 65 -15's on the rear end. It has a 1969 swing axle (it's not an American
> based car).
Stock trannies are pretty tough, the word is until you around 150+ horses
the stock unit should work well.
>
> For the CAM, what is the difference between going with a standard
> lifter grind like and Engle 110, 120, etc. and small ratio rockers like
> 1.1 or 1.25, or going with a Engle grind that is meant for HIGH lift
> rockers like the the FK series. If you do the math, the lift ends up
> being about the same, so is there an advantage to one or the other?
>
> Also, which CAM should I be thinking about, 110, 120, others?
I don't have a lot experience with cam choices, I'd recommend talking to
John about one of his Web Cams to meet your desired needs.
<big snip as the was just a repeat of the above questions>
David In Tucson
some hands on experience that my be of use to you.
Dave in Tucson
Kurt Miller <millerk...@cbn.net.id> wrote in message
news:MPG.15f2c8c06...@nntp.cbn.net.id...
>
> I am in the process of building a 2007cc (90.5 x 78.4) engine.
>
> I have some of the basics purchased, like the P/C (using the B
> stroker type), crank, case (being machined at Rimco), Clutch pressure
> plate 1700 KEP, used German doghouse cooler, total seal second rings,
> scat I beam rods, scat gland nut, standard weight flywheel (used -
> resurfaced at Rimco), remote oil filter locator, and a few other things.
>
> The parts I am debating about are the CAM, rockers, Carbs and
> heads.
>
> The car is going to be a daily driver, and I live in a large city,
> so it is not uncommon to see some stop and go driving, so a smooth idle
> and drive ability are important. But I also want it to have enough power
> to have some FUN with (obviously the reason for building the engine in
> the first place).
>
>
> Here are my issues in summary (details below)
>
> Cam: standard or ratio grind, 110, 120, or FK series, and which one.
If you are going to drive it daily and want some tractability, you want a
cam that will give that to you. I am using a Berg 309 with 1.4:1 rockers.
This cam has 297 Deg duration and (with the ratio rockers) .459" lift. It
is almost too much cam. It is as high as I would ever go on a stree
vehicle.
> Heads: CB 044 mags with port and polish, or 040's from Aircooled.net
Dont fo with the CB port and polish. They cut out the guides in the port
and this will cause you problems. You definately want to have ALL of your
valve guide there. Also, keep the compression ratio to a max of 7:1 inless
you go with a semit hemi head which you can go up to about 7.4:1. The
compression ration is THE most important item in keeping the engine running
for a long time over time. The higher the CR the higher the cylinder head
tem and the lower the life of your engine. My 1776 is set at 7:1 and my
head run at 325 deg F at high speed on the higheay (the hottest they will
get).
If you go with a semi hemi setup you will need ot get a distributor that
will give you up to 38 deg advance while still keeping acceptable advance at
idle.
> Carbs: kadrons, Weber 40's, Weber 44's
Kadrons will work but you might as well not get any work doen to the heads
as the Kadrons will be your limiting factor. I just installed CB CFI on my
Baja after using Kadrons and the difference is amazing! The top weber of
VW's is the DNCF I believe. Some people say the IDF's won't work wel with
VW's and others say they work fine, I went with FI and love it. See my
recient post on this for more info.
> Clutch plate: anyone use the one from Aircooled.net
>
> pushrods: what determines if I can use standard length rods, or if I have
> to cut my own?
You will have to cut your own. Make or get an adjustable pushrod to
measure, once you are doing your first mock assemble and go from there.
> Transmission: any suggested upgrades or gear ratios? I am running 195 /
> 65 -15's on the rear end. It has a 1969 swing axle (it's not an American
> based car).
You will want to maintain similar RPM's to stock due to cooling fan
considerations. I'm sure someone here can give you more exact data but
those tires are about the same diamiter as stock (it think) so that
shouldn't be too much of a consideration. I got a Rancho Super Street for
my Baja with a 3.83 (?) R&P and I'm running 27" tires, it does well but is
geared a bit high for off road but fine for the highway. I had been running
31" tires on the back and I couldn't get into the cam on the highway and the
Kadrons.
> For the CAM, what is the difference between going with a standard
> lifter grind like and Engle 110, 120, etc. and small ratio rockers like
> 1.1 or 1.25, or going with a Engle grind that is meant for HIGH lift
> rockers like the the FK series. If you do the math, the lift ends up
> being about the same, so is there an advantage to one or the other?
The key factor to ratio rockers (on a street engine) is that there is less
strain on the valve train as the ration happens at the valve. Hence the
lifters move less but the valve moves more. The valve acceleration is
increased, at the valve so the acceleration at the cam lobe can be milder,
and, easier on the valve train. Ratio rockers also adjust the valve at the
pushrod and not the valve, there is less weight moving out there at the
valev end of the rocker. I'm using CB 1.4:1 and have had no problems.
> Also, which CAM should I be thinking about, 110, 120, others?
See note above.
> Any recommendations for HEADS? I am thinking about getting some
> from either CB Performance 044 Mags with port and polish, or possibly
> some 040 from Aircooled Net.
Number one consideration for a daily driver is that you don'e want any head
that has had the valve guide cut from the port, as are the CB Super Mags.
This wakens the ability of the guide to do it's job and is not needed. I'm
using stock 044's and they work fine, though, I sure would like some better
heads, Aircooled.Net's heads maintain the valve guide from what hear and
are a fine product.
> At one time I read comments from someone saying that the 04X
> series heads from other vendors were no good, and the only head to use
> for high performance modifications was the 040. Well, then I purchased
> the tech articles of Gene Berg. He even comments that the 044 Mags are a
> good head. That must mean something, as he is very critical of other
> products.
>
> So, any suggestions?
>
> Next carbs. At one time I was thinking of going with some Kadrons
> to keep the cost lower on the project. But I've seen lots of posts
> recommending for large displacement engines that Weber 44 or 40's are the
> way to go. I guess for the price, 44's would be the choice as it is
> either buy 40's and jet them rich or buy 44's and jet them lean right?
You need to read up on Webers. You are looking at the best carb in the
world, but they were never made for VW's. You have to choose the correct
size venturi for the port of the head, etc, etc, etc ..... There must be a
lot of happy customers out there with IDF's, I bit the bullet and went with
fuel injection.
> What is the difference between the Weber kits that people are
> selling? I would guess there are linkages from CB and Gene Berg, and
> EMPI. Any recommendations?
Lots of opinion here, basically I think all of the carbs themselves are the
same. The best linkage is the Berg that mounts on the fan houseing. I have
experience with the CB Cross Bar and have not had any issues with it, though
others say it is junk.
> Next is the clutch plate. Aircooled.net has one that claims it is
> the ultimate for street performance as it provides grabbing power, with
> enough slip to keep your transmission alive.
I just got the one Berg sent me, looks pretty stock, though it is balanced.
I went with the Kennedy 1700 Pressure plate. No problems.
> I am looking for experience of those of you who have done this before. I
> have built two standard engines, but never a High Perf. one before. I
> didn't want to just order a crate engine though. I think there is much
> more satisfaction to building your own engine.
If you have the Berg manuals I think you have the best advice. I have gotten
a lot of "advice" from VW "Experts" that wasn't with the trouble to listen
to. I have never been let dowm by GBE. Unfortuanlately I can't alwyas
afford to follow it, though, when I don't, I usually regret it sooner or
later.
John Connolly
deal. The 044s are good (first couple generations had valve seats dropping
out), but they do not cool as well as 040s. Most recent problem is the 044
"valves" (junk) snapping off at the keeper grooves, get good valves, don't
run them out of the box.
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
Jimski the OneSickVW
>deal.
Any chance of a display at the RAMA of the New "generic" heads?? Like the price
but would like to see the different levels...
Jimski in Reno
ICQ# 17215386
http://members.aol.com/onesickvw
http://photos.yahoo.com/onesickvw
John Connolly
John
"Jimski the OneSickVW" <jbeck...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010827152129...@mb-cp.aol.com...
John Connolly
John
"Jimski the OneSickVW" <jbeck...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010827152129...@mb-cp.aol.com...
ANT The Monarch of Menace
heads (hey. that rhymes!) I don't see the price savings.
If anything, Fred's are cheaper. What gives?
-ANT
Check out the late great DALE 3 wheeled car
http://hometown.aol.com/daleautomobile/
John Connolly
$1500/pair.
L-6s are $775 to 950
L5s are $675 to 800
you sure you aren't nippin' on the ole' bottle there Ant'? :-)
John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
"ANT The Monarch of Menace " <s2...@aol.computer> wrote in message
news:20010827173542...@mb-md.aol.com...
ANT The Monarch of Menace
>$1500/pair.
Well, I guess it's all about interpreting the different flavors--the "levels"
don't directly correlate from one brand to the other, and then there's the
difference in valve sizes too.
See what I mean?