kombi van 2l and 1800
plodder
same clutch and dimensions?
I am looking at getting a conversion for my beetle and its hard to get a 2l
engine, can I just get a 1800 and upgrade the barrels or do the crank and
connecting rods also need upgrading?
any help would be good,
drew crossley
74 bug
G.W. East
so you will need a new 2.0 P&C kit. Heads are different also, but not in a
way that you can't use the 1.8 heads with the 2.0 setup.
Another option would be to go ahead and get the 1.8 and buy a performance
crank and cam for it with a new larger P&C kit with the correct offset for
the 1.8 rods. I understand John C. at www.aircooled.net can provide these T4
parts now. Drop him an email and see what he can do/suggest.
--
Till the Next Time,
George East
http://www.matnet.com/~gwsvws
"plodder" <aus...@gil.com.au> wrote in message
news:39a8c...@news.bne.gil.com.au...
Carlos Del Rio
Has great info on the basic differences of all VW motors ('61 to '83)
Searoy
> the
> > same clutch and dimensions?
The flywheel is different. The 1.8 has a 215mm and the 2.0 has a 228mm.
1.7s 210mm and 1.8s 215mm are practicallt interchangable, but the 2.0 228mm
is too different.
> > I am looking at getting a conversion for my beetle and its hard to get a
> 2l
> > engine, can I just get a 1800 and upgrade the barrels or do the crank
and
> > connecting rods also need upgrading?
The 1.7 had 90mm pistons and a 66mm crank. The 1.8 has 93mm pistons and a
66mm crank. The 2.0 has 94mm pistons and a 71mm crank, with different size
rod journals than the 1.7 and 1.8. The 1.7 and 1.8 have the same 66mm crank
and basically the same rods, while the 2.0 has special rods that don't
interchange with the smaller models, due to a change in length and rod
journal size for the 71mm crank. All 3 piston sizes (90mm, 93mm and 94mm)
will fit all the cases without machining, but the heads won't. The 1.7
heads won't fit the 1.8 and 2.0, and vice versa. The 1.8 heads and 2.0
heads will interchange so the biggest difference is the valve size. The 1.8
heads have the larger valves, with the early carbureted versions having the
largest (41x34). Only the Porsche 2.0 had the same size valves, while the
busses had much smaller ones. The Porsche 2.0 heads are noticeably
different in a few other ways too.
I got 95% of this information from "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Aircooled
Engine," which I am reading thoroughly each day this week. I found a 1.7L
bus engine complete and running for sale. Haven't called about a price yet.
It uses oil, so I know it needs a rebuild. I'm hoping to get it for a song,
since the guy is anti-T4, and will probably put a 1776 in his bus.
My idea is to use the internal parts as core and try to build a "budget
performance" using 2.0L counterweighted crank and rods with the stock sized
90mm pistons and heads. That way machining will be minimized, and I should
be able to clean, inspect and reassemble, assuming the heads aren't shot and
in need of welding. I'm hoping it's the rings that make it use oil, and not
a cracked head or bad valve guide. I want to just give it a good valve job
with new valves and hardware and drive away. If I have to machine it I'll
go ahead and cut it to 94, or maybe 103 if the cost is about the same. I'll
be satisfied using low compression and copper gaskets without a 5th stud if
I go this way. Hell, I don't even have the car I want to put it in yet, and
it will be quite some time before I do, so no rush.
To think I found a good pair of Porsche 2.0 heads at a swap meet and passed
them up because I had nothing to use them on. If I do wind up with the old
1.7 I will really be kicking myself for passing them up.
--
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
66 bug (daily driver project)
Shad Laws
> 66mm crank. The 2.0 has 94mm pistons and a 71mm crank, with different
size
> rod journals than the 1.7 and 1.8. The 1.7 and 1.8 have the same 66mm
crank
> and basically the same rods, while the 2.0 has special rods that don't
> interchange with the smaller models, due to a change in length and rod
> journal size for the 71mm crank. All 3 piston sizes (90mm, 93mm and 94mm)
> will fit all the cases without machining, but the heads won't. The 1.7
> heads won't fit the 1.8 and 2.0, and vice versa. The 1.8 heads and 2.0
> heads will interchange so the biggest difference is the valve size. The
1.8
> heads have the larger valves, with the early carbureted versions having
the
> largest (41x34). Only the Porsche 2.0 had the same size valves, while the
> busses had much smaller ones. The Porsche 2.0 heads are noticeably
> different in a few other ways too.
>
The Porsche 2.0 heads have a different spark plug location (more powerful),
only 3 bolts for the intake manifold, and have 42x36 valves. They are a
great set of heads for a mild engine as is.
> I got 95% of this information from "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen
Aircooled
> Engine," which I am reading thoroughly each day this week. I found a 1.7L
> bus engine complete and running for sale. Haven't called about a price
yet.
> It uses oil, so I know it needs a rebuild. I'm hoping to get it for a
song,
> since the guy is anti-T4, and will probably put a 1776 in his bus.
>
You're in So. CA... go look in the Recycler or check it out online. I'm
sure you could find a good 2.0L engine. It may take a little more than a
song, but nothing that'll break your back. I got mine from a 1973 complete
with stock FI, fuel pump, exhaust system, cooling system, air box, and very
fresh 3-bolt heads (not entirely new, but barely used as was obvious by
looking at them) for $500. Not too bad...
> My idea is to use the internal parts as core and try to build a "budget
> performance" using 2.0L counterweighted crank and rods with the stock
sized
> 90mm pistons and heads. That way machining will be minimized, and I
should
> be able to clean, inspect and reassemble, assuming the heads aren't shot
and
> in need of welding. I'm hoping it's the rings that make it use oil, and
not
> a cracked head or bad valve guide. I want to just give it a good valve
job
> with new valves and hardware and drive away. If I have to machine it I'll
> go ahead and cut it to 94, or maybe 103 if the cost is about the same.
I'll
> be satisfied using low compression and copper gaskets without a 5th stud
if
> I go this way. Hell, I don't even have the car I want to put it in yet,
and
> it will be quite some time before I do, so no rush.
>
> To think I found a good pair of Porsche 2.0 heads at a swap meet and
passed
> them up because I had nothing to use them on. If I do wind up with the
old
> 1.7 I will really be kicking myself for passing them up.
>
I've seen a few sets at swap meets lately. The funny part is that my whole
engine cost as much as these guys want for the bare heads...
Trust me - scour the Recycler and you'll eventually find something within a
week or two. It's a goldmine :-)
Shad
G.W. East
engine. Most of the fuel injected cases have no provision for a mechanical
fuel pump.
G.W. East
"Plodder" <zau...@gil.com.au> wrote in message
news:39ab0...@news.bne.gil.com.au...
> Thanks Searoy.
>
> Already worked out I need an 1800 clutch for the 74SB, but the rest
> of the info is what I am looking for - great - thanks.
> Looking at building a nearly stock 1800/2000 for general street use
> and this may be a good answer. I will rebuild the current tired 1600DP
> for use later.
> My other concern is also the cases. Is the 1800 case basically the same
> as the 2000 case? Just swap over the barrels / heads/ clutch-flywheel
> , crankshaft/ c-rods etc from a 2000cc type IV with a bit of machining
> (And I said 'just'? :-))
>
> Alot of the local 2l engines have been snapped up by some of the V8 guys
> for the connecting rods, evidently good in a small block V8. They
> were buying up to 8 engines at a time at local wreckers. (Shhh - don't
> let it out, we want to keep VW engines in VWs - right!)
> Plodder
> antispam - remove the z
> zau...@gil.com.au
>
> "Searoy" <sea...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:0yyq5.8309$C42.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > > > Is there a difference between the 2L kombi and the 1800 kombi motor.
> eg
> > > the
> > > > same clutch and dimensions?
> >
> > The flywheel is different. The 1.8 has a 215mm and the 2.0 has a 228mm.
> > 1.7s 210mm and 1.8s 215mm are practicallt interchangable, but the 2.0
> 228mm
> > is too different.
> >
> > > > I am looking at getting a conversion for my beetle and its hard to
get
> a
> > > 2l
> > > > engine, can I just get a 1800 and upgrade the barrels or do the
crank
> > and
> > > > connecting rods also need upgrading?
> >
> > The 1.7 had 90mm pistons and a 66mm crank. The 1.8 has 93mm pistons and
a
> > 66mm crank. The 2.0 has 94mm pistons and a 71mm crank, with different
> size
> > rod journals than the 1.7 and 1.8. The 1.7 and 1.8 have the same 66mm
> crank
> > and basically the same rods, while the 2.0 has special rods that don't
> > interchange with the smaller models, due to a change in length and rod
> > journal size for the 71mm crank. All 3 piston sizes (90mm, 93mm and
94mm)
> > will fit all the cases without machining, but the heads won't. The 1.7
> > heads won't fit the 1.8 and 2.0, and vice versa. The 1.8 heads and 2.0
> > heads will interchange so the biggest difference is the valve size. The
> 1.8
> > heads have the larger valves, with the early carbureted versions having
> the
> > largest (41x34). Only the Porsche 2.0 had the same size valves, while
the
> > busses had much smaller ones. The Porsche 2.0 heads are noticeably
> > different in a few other ways too.
> >
> > I got 95% of this information from "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen
> Aircooled
> > Engine," which I am reading thoroughly each day this week. I found a
1.7L
> > bus engine complete and running for sale. Haven't called about a price
> yet.
> > It uses oil, so I know it needs a rebuild. I'm hoping to get it for a
> song,
> > since the guy is anti-T4, and will probably put a 1776 in his bus.
> >
Plodder
Plodder
"G.W. East" <gwe...@matnet.com> wrote in message
news:sqm9le...@corp.supernews.com...
> The primary difference in the cases is whether or not it was a fuel
injected
> engine. Most of the fuel injected cases have no provision for a mechanical
> fuel pump.
>
> G.W. East
Thanks - I have a spare 12V electric fuel pump some where.
I will hunt it out.
Plodder.
>
> "Plodder" <zau...@gil.com.au> wrote in message
> news:39ab0...@news.bne.gil.com.au...
Searoy
> of the info is what I am looking for - great - thanks.
I would hunt for a 1700 flywheel. I'm told both will work, but something
about that extra 5mm makes me uneasy. I feel like 210mm on a 200mm starter
is pushing it enough. Besides, almost no one wants the 1700 engine, making
it a sweeter deal to anyone who is going to rebuild it and machine it
anyway.
> My other concern is also the cases. Is the 1800 case basically the same
> as the 2000 case? Just swap over the barrels / heads/ clutch-flywheel
> , crankshaft/ c-rods etc from a 2000cc type IV with a bit of machining
> (And I said 'just'? :-))
Far as I kinow there is NO machinig required between the 1800 and the 2000.
The heads and cylinders slide in. The difference in the crank and rods.
With the 1800 and the 2000, the rods and crank are very different. No
machining required, just replace crank and rods as a unit.
> Alot of the local 2l engines have been snapped up by some of the V8 guys
> for the connecting rods, evidently good in a small block V8. They
> were buying up to 8 engines at a time at local wreckers. (Shhh - don't
> let it out, we want to keep VW engines in VWs - right!)
The rod journal is about the same, only the VW is slightly smaller. That
means the T4 rod can be used as a really cheap replacement rod if the crank
is ground. Of course the rod is significantly shorter than stock Chevy rods
(only 5.1") so RPM in a V8 will suffer.
If I have to go aftermarket for my parts I'll go straight for
www.aircooled.net. There I can get a T4 crank with VW journals for use with
VW rods. The cost of the crank is more, but being able to use 5.4" VW
I-beam rods makes up for the added expense. I would much rather use good
used/rebuilt parts to keep my costs down, but I do want an engine I only
have to build once.