Don't even think about it. In theory it's possible. It may even be
physically possible. But the time/money/aggravation factor makes it next
to impossible. Find a standard bug or leave the tranny alone (automatic
isn't that bad if its in ok condition)
Brad Gom (GO...@hg.uleth.ca)
>I found a very nice 1969 Beetle with an excellent
>body. Unfortunately it has an automatic
>transmission. Does anyone know how hard is it to
>install a manual transmission into the car? What is
>needed and how much time is required? Thank you.
MOST auto-stick Bugs can be converted pretty
painlessly. The most important difference is the
presence of a clutch cable tube inside the tunnel.
Autosticks don't use the tube, but MANY of them
have the tube installed. You need to pull your
pedal cluster and reach back inside there, and
see if there is in fact a 10mm (or so) diameter
tube ending about 2 inches back from the pedal
cluster mounting hole, about at the bottom of
the tunnel. You probably can't see it without
a small mirror. If it's there- you're in business.
If not, it'll be easier to replace the pan with
a standard transmission pan than to install a
tube in yours; or sell the car to someone who
loves Autosticks.
To put in the standard tranny:
(Get a standard tranny, clutch cable, pedal
cluster, standard trans flywheel, throwout
bearing, pressure plate, clutch, Bowden
tube, T.O. bearing clips, shifter, cable wingnut)
1) Pull the engine
2) Disconnect the shift coupling under back
seat, remove shift lever, remove pedals
3) Disconnect drive axles at the tranny,
with the special 12-point socket (some people
cheat and use an Allen wrench and then
complain about those darn stripped bolts),
pull CV joints away from tranny.
4) Get rid of all other Autostick connections,
oil lines, vacuum hoses, and pull the starter.
5) Loosen front tranny mount. I would remove the
two HUGE bolts at the end of the frame horns
here, or you can take the tranny mount nuts
off inside the filthy bell housing. After the
torque converter is out.
6) Roll the tranny out on its drive flanges.
Catch it before it lands on you.
7) Transfer mounts over to the new tranny
8) GREASE the clutch cable and feed it
through the tube, until it's sticking out back
in about the right place. Leave about 2 inches
sticking out of the pedal cluster hole. Push
the Bowden tube up to the cable exit hole
over the cable.
9) Put the nosecone rubber seal on the
new tranny, make sure the reverse light
switch is in and tight, fill the tranny with
gear oil!!
10) Put new tranny in, roll forward till front
mount is in, put in rear bolts, tighten front
mounts (always oil the front studs REALLY
well- you don't want to break 'em) Helps to
make the Bowden tube go in the right hole
NOW rather than later.
11) Reinstall axles, starter, backup light
wiring, and get clutch cable going in the right
place.
12) Install pedals, and tie the clutch cable
to the pedal hook with a bit of wire, so it
doesn't pop off when you flip the pedal flat
backwards while installing. Tighten the
wingnut about half way down the threaded
cable.
13) Get someone to take off the nasty
flex-plate thing on your engine. Some dealers
may still have the special holding tool, since
there's no ring gear on this plate to lock it.
Air tools help. Put on your flywheel, clutch
etc- time to put in a front main while you're
looking at the thing. Always use a clutch
alignment tool or a spare input shaft to center
the disk. Put on the T.O bearing. Put in
the engine. You may have to do something
about the oil pump- I'm not sure you can
just leave it open. A regular one can replace
the Autostick pump.
Have tons of fun.
Rob <--- 74 Sun Bug, 66 Sunroof Bug, 71 Notchback
<much excellent text deleted>
>You may have to do something
>about the oil pump- I'm not sure you can
>just leave it open. A regular one can replace
>the Autostick pump.
>Have tons of fun.
>
>Rob <--- 74 Sun Bug, 66 Sunroof Bug, 71 Notchback
I agree with Rob. This is a conversion that can be done fairly
easily. Rob is on the right track about the oil pump too. I would
replace the pump with a standard oil pump (a good time to go to a
better pump also). Or, you can convert the automatic oil pump with
oil lines to a filter (but that's a "whole nother" project involving
reworking the pump).
I have converted a dozen or so bugs to a stick from an auto stick
and it is pretty much a "bolt on" type project. there are even some
neat tricks to welding in a clutch cable tube if needed (sounds
hard, but it's not).
I would wait until you need to do major engine or transmission
work. This would help offset some of the expense. Meanwhile, you can
and should shift the auto tranny just like a clutchless three
speed.
Joe
--
I converted my autostick to standard as well. Like everyone said it's
pretty much a bolt in installation. I believe that you also need the
starter motor from a standard transmission. I also had to change the
shift rod on my car the autostick one was too long.
--
And I unfortunately am driving a Honda now.
Yeck.
Autosticks were only made from years 68-74, and they are a
dwindling population thanks to the likes of you guys. Which makes it
harder for me to find one.
Kyle S. Davis
http://www.journalism.bsu.edu/kylesfiles/
Celebrating over 400 confirmed hits.
> Autosticks were only made from years 68-74, and they are a
>dwindling population thanks to the likes of you guys. Which makes it
>harder for me to find one.
I have a few questions about this autostick stuff. I just recently read
somewhere that VW offered bugs with "semi-automatic" transmissions
starting in 1968, and am very curious as to a few things...
1). What does *semi*-automatic mean, exactly? Like, is there still a clutch or
what?
2). Just how rare are these bugs? Jeeze, up until yesterday I never had any
idea that such a thing even existed...I could never get the hang of driving
a stick and probably never will, so an automatic bug would be a really keen
thing to have...
3). Are these transmissions more prone to failure than the standards?
Thanx in advance to anyone who can help...
------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
____ _ __ __ TM | "Great spirits have always encountered
/ __ \(_)__ ___ ___/ /__ _/ /__ | violent opposition from mediocre
/ /_/ / / _ \(_-</ _ / _ `/ / -_) | minds."
/_____/_/_//_/___/\_/_/\_/_/_/\__/ | -- A. Einstein
------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
>I have a few questions about this autostick stuff. I just recently read
>somewhere that VW offered bugs with "semi-automatic" transmissions
>starting in 1968, and am very curious as to a few things...
>
>1). What does *semi*-automatic mean, exactly? Like, is there still a
clutch
>or
> what?
>2). Just how rare are these bugs? Jeeze, up until yesterday I never had
any
> idea that such a thing even existed...I could never get the hang of
>driving
> a stick and probably never will, so an automatic bug would be a
really
>keen
> thing to have...
>3). Are these transmissions more prone to failure than the standards?
>
>Thanx in advance to anyone who can help...
The semi-automatic, or Automatic Stick Shift was an
optional transmission offered by VW (the only optional
transmission, actually) primarily for the (lazy) American
market from 1968-1974.
Yes, it did have a clutch- but no clutch pedal. It also
had a torque converter- but YOU shifted the gears
yourself. The shifter had a switch in it, so that when
any pressure was applied to it, as when you tried to
move it, it operated an electric solenoid. The solenoid
opened a valve allowing engine vacuum to pull in a
clutch, exactly as your foot would for a normal Bug.
You selected the new gear, and the clutch re-engaged
when you released your hand from the shifter. The
torque converter took care of matching engine speeds
and operation when stopped at a traffic light in gear.
They're three-speed transmissions, and there's no
"park", so your parking brake is essential, as well
as the condition of your brakes in general, since you
probably won't be downshifting when you stop.
Obviously, from my description of operation, you can
see that there are a lot more parts in the system, and
also more points of failure than a standard-trans
Beetle. Owners of properly functioning AutoSticks
seem to love them- but they can be a real pain to
work on, especially if you don't have the tool for the
special flywheel adapter plate, or if your vacuum
diaphragm goes, or any of the other things that you
WON'T find on a standard Beetle. Quite a few parts
are different, beyond just the transmission. In my
opinion, VW would have been far better to just use
the automatic from the Type 3 than to create the
odd half-breed monster that they ended up with.
The bugs didn't have enough HP for a full auto tranny.
People would be disappointed for such a creation. Thats why VW
didn't do it (you honestly didn't think they tried?)
So they compromised and came up with a radically different
tranny, that is so revolutionary an idea some fo the best and brightest
name badges of the day are beginning to mimick it (Porsche, Chrylser.)
Autosticks rule!
The autostick tranny, just like a fine baby grand piano, sings
when it is in great shape and in tune. Does that make a baby grand piano
worth less than a synthesizer because it has to be tuned manually by
skilled apprentices? I would think not.
Synthesizers have their place, and so do baby grands. The Manual
transmission will always be a synthesizer in my book, whereas the
autostick will always be a baby grand.
As always, keep your eye out on
http://wwww.journalism.bsu.edu/kylesfiles/vwgallery/
For autostickers anonymous RSN!.
Keep on buggin'
Kyle S. Davis
> The bugs didn't have enough HP for a full auto tranny.
The 71 Beetle engine had the same HP as the Type 3,
and that had a full-auto tranny. They made diesel Chevettes
with full-auto trannys. If anything's underpowered....
The thing was a truly bad idea. Way too many
interdependent systems to be durable. There simply
wasn't room in the crowded rear end of a Bug to do
the job right, so instead, they did it wrong.
The only good thing to come out of the program
was CV joints.
>> WON'T find on a standard Beetle. Quite a few parts
>> are different,
> Like?
>> beyond just the transmission.
> Hmm, that orange bentley manual seems to think that the auto
>sticks had some common gear ratios and transmission features..
>> In my
>> opinion, VW would have been far better to just use
>> the automatic from the Type 3 than to create the
>> odd half-breed monster that they ended up with.
Wonderful. Different parts include: Bellhousing,
clutch, torque converter, flex plate, oil pump, clutch
servo cylinder, clutch solenoid, shifter, pedal cluster,
shift rod, number of shift rails inside tranny, starter,
vacuum reservoir, clutch release arm, ATF reservoir,
absence of first gear, wiring harness, speedometer.
The gears that ARE in the tranny are the same as
regular Beetle 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. The final drive is
the same.
My opinion on these things is that the additional
service tools and time-consuming techniques they
require are in opposition to the VW philosophy
of building inexpensive, durable, simple, easy-
to-service vehicles. They were only made as an
accomodation to our American attitude and
inbred wastefulness. They're ALL three speeds,
except when broken, and I don't know where you
got a Beetle with Park, but you must be imagining
things. The only good thing about them compared
to a regular automatic is that they can be towed
without damage, since the final drive stages are
a regular geared gearbox in regular oil. So you
can tow it to the junkyard without any further
damage to the transmission. Hurray.
I hope they all burn so I never have to work on
anyone else's again. I'll never own one.
> So they compromised and came up with a radically different
>tranny, that is so revolutionary an idea some fo the best and brightest
>name badges of the day are beginning to mimick it (Porsche, Chrylser.)
>
> Autosticks rule!
The makers of today are not building anything that
remotely resembles a VW Autostick. NONE of the
manually-shifted automatics today have a conventional
gearbox. YOU do not shift the gears: the automatic
transmission interprets your inputs and decides whether
to shift up or down, by locking one clutch band or
another to a planetary gearset. These things are
electro-hydraulic computers. They have a proper
integral oil pump and reservoir for the ATF. The
shifters have NO mechanical linkage to the tranny,
besides possibly a cable to guide valves open
or closed. They're designed for people who want
to think they're driving a "real sports car" without
leaving their couch. These things have no relation
whatever with the VW design and are not derivative
from it. I stand by all these opinions. Rob
Hey I thought the later Beetle with autosticks DID have a position for PARK. I
forgot which year it started with maybe '73 or so. It even worked sometimes. ;-)
Just my two cents worth.
Dave (vwd...@aol.com)
: >> WON'T find on a standard Beetle. Quite a few parts
: >> are different,
: > Like?
: >> beyond just the transmission.
: > Hmm, that orange bentley manual seems to think that the auto
: >sticks had some common gear ratios and transmission features..
: >> In my
: >> opinion, VW would have been far better to just use
: >> the automatic from the Type 3 than to create the
: >> odd half-breed monster that they ended up with.
: Wonderful. Different parts include: Bellhousing,
: clutch, torque converter, flex plate, oil pump, clutch
: servo cylinder, clutch solenoid, shifter, pedal cluster,
: shift rod, number of shift rails inside tranny, starter,
: vacuum reservoir, clutch release arm, ATF reservoir,
: absence of first gear, wiring harness, speedometer.
: The gears that ARE in the tranny are the same as
: regular Beetle 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. The final drive is
: the same.
: My opinion on these things is that the additional
: service tools and time-consuming techniques they
: require are in opposition to the VW philosophy
: of building inexpensive, durable, simple, easy-
: to-service vehicles. They were only made as an
: accomodation to our American attitude and
: inbred wastefulness. They're ALL three speeds,
: except when broken, and I don't know where you
\MyVWsGotMe (myvws...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <Pine.PMDF.3.91.9606111...@BSUVC.bsu.edu>,
: "Rebel without a pause." <01ks...@BSUVC.bsu.edu> writes:
: >> WON'T find on a standard Beetle. Quite a few parts
: >> are different,
: > Like?
: >> beyond just the transmission.
: > Hmm, that orange bentley manual seems to think that the auto
: >sticks had some common gear ratios and transmission features..
: >> In my
: >> opinion, VW would have been far better to just use
: >> the automatic from the Type 3 than to create the
: >> odd half-breed monster that they ended up with.
: The gears that ARE in the tranny are the same as
: regular Beetle 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. The final drive is
: the same.
WHAT!?!?! My '74 Super with an auto-stick has park(works very
well),
Low, ( Yes, thats what it's labeled not 1st) 1-15 MPH, this gear has
taken me up loveland pass(sevral times) which crosses the contental dvide,
1st, (Not supposed to start from Low) 1-52 MPH (It says so in the manual
although I usualy shift at 35) There is no loss of power here.
2nd, 30-100?? MPH (I've taken mine up to 90) There is a little loss of
power when shifting from 1st to 2nd but that because you have to take
your foot of the gas when you shift, like a cluch unlike a full-auto.
Park, accualy it's kind of intristing how they did this, you have to push
the gear knob down, then slide it to the left then down and right. Strange.
As for repair problems, My family has owned our bug for 21 years. Only
just reccently has the transmission given me ANY problems, But I still
drive it, the only problem is it's getting harder to shift into reverse
and once the gearing refused to engage. I'm planning on repairing the
tranny ( I think I know what the problem is, the part should only cost me
about $20, and I can do the work myself.
Lastly, Auto-Sticks are like Bugs, If you don't use one, you don't know
the fun your missing out on. If you do, well, your a devoted follower.
Everbody I know who ever drove an auto-stick loved their auto-stick.
And everybody who still does, still does.
: Rob <--- 74 Sun Bug, 66 Sunroof Bug, 71 Notchback
Thanks,
Robert Aram
ra...@mosquito.frcc.cccoes.edu
>myvws...@aol.com (MyVWsGotMe) wrote:
> They're ALL three speeds,
>>except when broken, and I don't know where you
>>got a Beetle with Park, but you must be imagining
>>things.
>>Rob <--- 74 Sun Bug, 66 Sunroof Bug, 71 Notchback
>
>Hey I thought the later Beetle with autosticks DID have a position for
PARK.
>I
>forgot which year it started with maybe '73 or so. It even worked
sometimes.
>;-)
I stand corrected. I saw a 74 autostick regular Beetle at
the Litchfield Bug-inn this weekend,and had a talk with
the driver. It DOES have park. I never saw a 74 Autostick
before I guess, and I apologize for my ignorance.
She did mention that she can't get it to go into park,
but her dad can! Looking at how it's arranged, I would
guess that they included some internal locking parts
in place of reverse gear in a normal tranny. The P is at
the reverse gear position of the shift pattern. Anyone
know what the parts look like? None of my books show
anything useful. I guess it's a one-year only, since my
friends' 73 doesn't have it.
See y'all later. Rob <--- Went and learned sumthin...