Tiger CDI and ignition coil
Term Limits Now
recommendation of the manufacturer I kept the stock distributor
configuration, including the use of ignition points. I acquired a new
coil which included a ballast resistor. Do I need to use the ballast
resistor?
Thanks.
James
Speedy Jim
You do need the ballast if using points.
For far, far more than you wanted to know about
coils and hi-energy ignition, read thru this tome:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=910585#910585
(though it may not directly address your question)
Jim
Term Limits Now
Thanks for the reply. I will install the coil with the ballast
resistor, although I understand that with the CDI module the points
only trigger the coil and do not carry current. Or rather, only an
insignificant current.
James
Jim...@msn.com
The stock Bosch coils for old air-cooled VW’s has a built in ballast
resistor.
Are you saying that you have an aftermarket coil that uses a separate
ballast resistor?
If so then, yes use it.
Sorry, didn’t mean to advertise.
I have a 1973 VW Beetle with:
Tiger CDI
and
Jacob’s Plug wires
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGW0005
NGK B5HS or Bosch W8AC plugs gapped to .038 IN. The instructions say .
041 IN but I allow a margin for error.
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGS0001&cartid=0327200923291921
For stock and MILD high performance engines. We have found NGK is
better than Bosch, and are equipped on the NEW VW engines in Mexico!
Price is for a set of 4 plugs.
SVDA distributor
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/catsearch.php?categoryid=IGD&cmd=list&parent2=IG&perpage=
or
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-043-905-205
High Energy Distributor Magnition cap from CB Performance
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=340
Modified rotor from aircooled.net
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGR0002&cartid
I like these add-ons. It works for me!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here are some good links that include install instructions and a
paragraph from Bob Hoover from one of these links:
http://www.vw-resource.com/cdi.html#procedure
Engine Compartment Wiring, Stock (Without CDI or CompuFire)
http://www.vw-resource.com/alternator_wiring.html#rewire
A Bob Hoover Sermonette on CDI Systems
(Used with permission.)
Two types of CDI units are offered -- a points-triggered CDI module
and an optically-triggered CDI module.
The stock points work okay for triggering the unit... sorta :-) The
points never wear out since the triggering signal is only about two
hundred and fifty milliamps (a quarter of an amp) as compared to 10 or
11 amps in the stock system. But the rubbing block wears down and you
have to regap the points every 25000 miles or so. And as the miles
build up the spring on the points weakens and you start to see points
bounce, even at fairly low speeds. But points are inexpensive, robust
and universally available making their use practical. I started using
CDI modules in the 1960's and used the stock points for triggering
until something better came along.
As a final note, a lotta guys go to a CDI module because they are
having ignition problems and sure enough, the problem goes away once
the unit is installed. You'll hear this same story from guys who
merely replace their points with a Pertronix or other brand of
electronic switch. But the odds are, the problem would have gone away
with a good tune-up or rebuilding the distributor, which needs its
seals replaced about every 50000 to 70000 miles. If your distributor
needs an overhaul, the mainshaft will be loose and that looseness will
cause excessive 'hunting' -- the spark won't always occur at the
proper time.
A CDI module will trigger reliably with a point gap that's too small
to measure (!), meaning it will even trigger reliably (although not
accurately) with a distributor that is virtually worn out. By the same
token, replacing the points with some form of magnetic triggering
often masks that wear. Your distributor is still worn out and should
be overhauled or replaced but the 'hunting' will have vanished --
right up until the mainshaft binds or the dog gear breaks off or some
other catastropic failure occurs.
There's no such thing as a free lunch J :)
~~~
Install a rotor that has been modified for high-output ignition
systems (see following note).
Note: John Connolly (Aircooled.Net) says "If you have a high-output
ignition (e.g., CDI), here's a tip. Bosch rotors have a resistor
between the middle and end, under the epoxy. High output ignitions
WILL burn this out, resulting in you tearing your hair out trying to
find the cause of the misfire. Dig it out, and then braze a piece of
brass in place of the resistor. Fresh epoxy will finish the job
nicely. NO MORE MISS." Modified rotors for high-energy systems are
available from Aircooled.Net.
~~~
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGR0002&cartid
This is from the link above:
Ignition Rotor
Price: $ Varies according to options
Part #: IGR0002 Genuine Bosch or OEM Rotors. NEVER use aftermarket for
ignition parts! Rev control rotors CAN USE the late beetle rotor if
you don't mind losing the RPM limiter. Also, if you have a high output
ignition, here's a tip. Bosch rotors have a resistor between the
middle and end, under the Epoxy. High output igntions WILL burn this
out, resulting in you tearing your hair out trying to find the cause
of the misfire. Dig it out, and then braze a piece of brass in place
of the resistor. Fresh Epoxy will finish the job nicely. NO MORE MISS.
Modified Rotor, SVDA, 009, and 69+ Stock Distributors
$18.00
This modified rotor is used on high energy ignition systems. Fits 69'
and newer stock distributors, our SVDA, and 009s. The stock rotor has
a resistor in it which will BURN UP if used with our CDI, MSD, or
Jacob's ignitions. You can do it yourself, but we have these already
modified for your convenience. The epoxy is ground out, and the
resistor is replaced with solid wire to handle the extra ignition
power (the resistor will eventually burn out). The wire is re-covered
with epoxy again, and ready to go.
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/mods.htm
Add a CDI to your Ignition System: under an hour. The Capacitive
Discharge Ignition provides a major ignition upgrade, and can be
installed in under an hour. Spark plugs last 4X longer and plug gap
can be opened up to .040". In return for the investment in a CDI, you
get 3-4 mpg better mileage and your starts with a quick turn of the
key even on cold mornings (instead of 2-3 seconds of cranking before
it fires up). SMOOTH running, even before it's warmed up! Must be used
with a set of Super-Mag Plug Wires (the higher energy produced by the
CDI will overwhelm stock or used wires), and complete the ensemble
with a new set of NGK plugs (better than Bosch).
Replace the Ignition Cap & Rotor: 3 minutes (give or take). Bosch is
the ONLY brand of these parts that I recommend you install. Leave the
clear distributor caps for the show cars (they run like crap). Make
sure you switch wires one at a time!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John
ballast resistor, internal or external and there are ones that do have
external ones. The coils that use an external resistor are really coils
rated at about 9 volts on the primary.. The 12 volts fed to the starter
from the ig switch also goes straight to the coil, the idea being because
the engine is being cranked over the battery voltage falls to about 9 volts
and you get full output from the 9 volt coil. When the engine starts the
start signal from the starter motor drops and 12 volts is fed via the
ballast resistor to the coil. The resistor develops about 3 volts across it
to stop the 12 volts overheating the 9 volt coil. On that basis I would not
feed the CDI to a Coil designed for a ballast resistor. I suspect the HT
voltage to plugs will be too high. Had a CDI on my trusty 1300 many years
ago,. whenever there was fog the engine bay lit up like an amusement park.
Occasionally the thyristor would blow , usually at most inopportune time.
Gone back to points/coil/plugs.
John
Jim...@msn.com
* to use a stock coil with a ballast resistor.
* not to use a high output coil.
* to use stock spark plugs. Do not use the fancy triple electrode or
Platinum plugs.
* to gap the plugs to .040 -- .041 inch gap.
* to use special 8.5mm HEI spark plug and coil wires.
I think I will remove my CDI.
I got over 7 years of use with it.
I think it will run just as well with the stock distributor, Pertronix
drop in ignition, and stock coil.
If I drove quite a bit on he highway, I might keep the CDI.
That's where you get the extra mpg from the CDI, not while driving
around town.
It just seems like one more thing to go wrong.
Have a good one!
On Mar 26, 5:41 pm, Term Limits Now <pinto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
P.J.Berg
> The instructions for my CDI said:
>
> * to use a stock coil with a ballast resistor.
A stock coil has a internal resistor, easy to measure with a multimeter. Primary resistance should read 3 - 4 Ohm.
> * not to use a high output coil.
You can use any coil you want with the same as stock coil resistance, again primary resistance should read 3 - 4 Ohm.
> * to use stock spark plugs. Do not use the fancy triple electrode or
> Platinum plugs.
Nothing wrong with either, although I would stay away from triple electrode plugs as the two extra electrodes shield flame propagation in the combustion chamber.
Platinum's are recommended for longer service life, as is Silver or Iridium. The only argument against these plugs are price.
> * to gap the plugs to .040 -- .041 inch gap.
Correct.
> * to use special 8.5mm HEI spark plug and coil wires.
No need for 'special' coil wires as long as the ones you use can take the extra voltage, I have used cheap aftermarket 'silicone' wires for years without any problems what so ever.
Do however remember to use a rotor without the built in resistor, as this can burn out and lead to misfires. You can modify your own or buy a modified one from www.Aircooled.net
> I think I will remove my CDI.
Why? Have I missed a part of the thread?
> I got over 7 years of use with it.
> I think it will run just as well with the stock distributor, Pertronix
> drop in ignition, and stock coil.
It will not start as easy, and it will not run as clean whilst only partially warmed up, this is where you save gas.
> If I drove quite a bit on he highway, I might keep the CDI.
> That's where you get the extra mpg from the CDI, not while driving
> around town.
On the contrary, with highway use you a have a fairly steady load, little or nothing to be gained from the CDI.
Around town you use the full register of the carb which is never perfect when it comes to mixture, the CDI will help you to get a more complete burn during varying rpm's and load/register of the carb.
> It just seems like one more thing to go wrong.
Not sure what CDI you use, most have an exclude mode where you eliminate the CDI function either via a switch or by turning an electrical connector/plug around(Tiger CDI has this function).
> Have a good one!
>
>
>
> On Mar 26, 5:41 pm, Term Limits Now <pinto...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Several years ago I installed a Tiger CDI module and on the
>> recommendation of the manufacturer I kept the stock distributor
>> configuration, including the use of ignition points. I acquired a new
>> coil which included a ballast resistor. Do I need to use the ballast
>> resistor?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> James
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Jim...@msn.com
or so.
It has a plug so I can eliminate the CDI function by turning it. You
can choose points/Pertronix or CDI.
If I turn the plug to bypass the CDI and have it run on points/
Pertronix, will it run with the plugs gaped to .040inch?
After reading your reply I think I will keep the CDI.
Besides, I recently bought a new HEI distributor cap for my SVDA
distributor to use with the CDI.
Once I removed the cover from the CDI and applied some bronze/orange
Permatex rtv sealant to keep the moisture out.
Is that ok or should I have left the gap to let some of the heat out?
Will the CDI make the engine run hotter?
On Mar 29, 1:03 pm, "P.J.Berg" <BergR...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
P.J.Berg
> I have the Tiger CDI John C. of aircoolednet was selling back in 2000
> or so.
The very same I used with a Pertronix module, great unit.
> It has a plug so I can eliminate the CDI function by turning it. You
> can choose points/Pertronix or CDI.
Yup.
> If I turn the plug to bypass the CDI and have it run on points/
> Pertronix, will it run with the plugs gaped to .040inch?
Yes it will run.
> After reading your reply I think I will keep the CDI.
> Besides, I recently bought a new HEI distributor cap for my SVDA
> distributor to use with the CDI.
>
> Once I removed the cover from the CDI and applied some bronze/orange
> Permatex rtv sealant to keep the moisture out.
> Is that ok or should I have left the gap to let some of the heat out?
To be honest I cannot remember the exact dimensions/construction of the unit, so I cannot answer that.
I believe they also sold a Marine unit which looked the same, so a guess would be you are ok.
> Will the CDI make the engine run hotter?
No.
J.