Bernie Bergman - News from germany
Dirk Harbott
Yesterday I was at the german distributer and you won't believe it, they
give a lifetime warrenty for the cranks. Can't believe that, but they
do.
I asked them what they do with the crankshafts, and the told me that
they check every crank. Controll the measurement, and even magnaflux
them. In case of customer wish they harden the cranks.
They have no troubles with the cranks and give a lifetime warrenty. The
price for a 82mm full cycle rank is about 1150,--Marks.
They sponsor a Kaefer Cup Beetle and it run with a Bergman crank, with
no problems.
Now I thinking about buying one. In fact of above would you buy one or
keep your hands of ?
--
Fweem
Dirk
'66 Sedan
'79 vert (still restoring)
'83 aubergine
John Connolly
friend buy one of his engines that hadn't been run for a long time (never,
but was new). My friend recommended that the engine be disassembled and
check EVERYTHING before startup.
magged the crank to find not one, but TWO cracks in a "new" crankshaft. Very
nice. Also, the case was supposedly O-ringed, and found NO case O-ring.
I stand by my statement to stay as far away as possible. Stick with an
Okrasa, Scat, Berg, Pauter, or RIMCO crank. There may be other good ones out
there, but I have no experience with them so I can't comment. I only know
these ones are good quality.
John
Dirk Harbott wrote:
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GazMP
In article <73jist$ve$1...@news02.btx.dtag.de>, Dhar...@t-online.de (Dirk
Harbott) writes:
>Yesterday I was at the german distributer and you won't believe it, they
>give a lifetime warrenty for the cranks. Can't believe that, but they
>do.
When you sell quality parts you can give a good warranty.
For instance Ford give a 1 year warranty on their cars but Nissan give 3.
Gaz
To e-mail me remove the ".nospam"
Remember to ask Bill to get the phone from whoever pays for permission.
SHO'N'PRV_67
Dirk Harbott wrote:
> We former discussed the 'poor' quality from Bernie Bergman products.
> Yesterday I was at the german distributer and you won't believe it, they
> give a lifetime warrenty for the cranks. Can't believe that, but they
> do.
> <snip>
> Fweem
> Dirk
> '66 Sedan
> '79 vert (still restoring)
> '83 aubergine
I, personally, would keep away from the full-circle crank! Stay with a
good COUNTERweighted crank. The full circle crank just puts material back on
the rod throw side of the crank, making the balance of the crank worse than
stock! (for racing purposes) If you decide to buy the crank and it has a
lifetime warrantee, you might get the crank replaced, but what about all the
other pieces that are attached to the crank! Will they replace those? They
will for that Kafer Cup car because they SPONSOR him!! The case will take
the brunt of the beating, and those sucker are NOT cheap!! Let BB pay for
all the parts that guy needs for his race car, in a few years BB won't have
enough money to advertise again, and then this time, they'll go bankrupt.
IMHO
If you want to buy a quality crank, get it from GENE BERG! Ask around
about that one.
Nelson Brum _|_ ___ ___
67 Euro Ghia /___\ /___\ /___\
71 Super Beetle(GF) (O\\_//O) (o\ | /o) (o\ | /o)
61 Bug (next project) u-----u U """ U u-----u
Sunnyvale, CA
"mailto:s...@packbell.net"
Remove the "k" to respond!
"http://mypage.goplay.com/kghia_67/home.html"
---"Growing old is mandatory. Growing wise is optional, but recommended."---
Mike Testa
magazine. Yes, the counterweights run all the way around, however,
they are more concentrated on the opposite side of the rod,
balancing the same way as a normal counterweighted crank. There is,
IMHO, no problem to the balancing properties of the full circle crank.
Stop reading Berg's catalog and taking it for gospel. Good info there
but highly biased. The real issues with a full circle crank is
weight. They are typically 5 to 7 LBS heavier than a similarly
sized counterweighted crank. They spin up slower, making for slower
acceleration, but the extra weight produces more torque. Good for
a heavy vehicle, bad for a quick street car. Bernies cranks are
IMHO again, pretty crappy. There are many welding pits which he claims
hold oil. The polishing is poor quality, and the few I've used have
had more than .002 runout. Bernie's helper said they don't bother to
measure runout. Just my .02 dollars.
allanwilliams
Hyundai gives 6years/180,000Kms - that sorts screws up your logic! :-)
We had Hyundai's at work. We need VWs - my car was going more often than our
work cars!
--
Allan Williams
visit NVWC at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/imola/141/
E-Mail me:
allanwilliams AT hotmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------
GazMP wrote in message
nosp...@oceanstreetvideo.com
wrote:
>You obviously have never seen a full circle crank other than in a
>magazine. Yes, the counterweights run all the way around, however,
>they are more concentrated on the opposite side of the rod,
>balancing the same way as a normal counterweighted crank. There is,
>IMHO, no problem to the balancing properties of the full circle crank.
the full circle idea is just a gimmick that is used to sell
parts to people who don't know any better, which is why it's the
exception rather than the rule.
there is absolutely no advantage to a full circle crank, and
the reason they are worse is because they do in fact add weight to the
journal side of the crank. if you look at a properly counterweighted
crank you'll see that the weights wrap all the way around to roughly
the centerline of the crank. there is only enough material there to
counterbalance both the rod journal and rod itself.
because it adds weight beyond the centerline of the crank, the
full circle concept means that more weight must be added to the main
counterweighted side of the crank.
even when everything is in full balance you end up with a
heavy pig of a crank. among other things, the added weight is
detrimental to the life of the crank because it increases the stress
on the crank journals, which are already too small on a vw to begin
with.
>Stop reading Berg's catalog and taking it for gospel. Good info there
>but highly biased. The real issues with a full circle crank is
it sounds to me like you have a problem with the bergs. that's
fine, you're not alone, but instead of picking on them try and justify
your views by pointing out top-quality crank manufacturers that design
and sell that full circle crap... bernie bergmann is NOT in that
category, as you actually had the knowledge and foresight to point
out.
i'll spell it out real plainly for you: the best flat four
engines in the world, by far, are designed and run by vendors and
racers on the pro racing association drag racing circuit. they lead
the world in this technology, and i can guarantee you that you won't
find much, if any, of that full circle crap in their engines.
dan
Mike Testa
>
> On Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:56:27 GMT, Mike Testa <mike...@home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >You obviously have never seen a full circle crank other than in a
> >magazine. Yes, the counterweights run all the way around, however,
> >they are more concentrated on the opposite side of the rod,
> >balancing the same way as a normal counterweighted crank. There is,
> >IMHO, no problem to the balancing properties of the full circle crank.
>
>> the full circle idea is just a gimmick that is used to sell
>> parts to people who don't know any better, which is why it's the
>> exception rather than the rule.
>>
>> there is absolutely no advantage to a full circle crank, and
>> the reason they are worse is because they do in fact add weight to the
>> journal side of the crank. if you look at a properly counterweighted
>> crank you'll see that the weights wrap all the way around to roughly
>> the centerline of the crank. there is only enough material there to
>> counterbalance both the rod journal and rod itself.
>
as was stated in the original post:
"making the balance of the crank worse than stock! (for racing
purposes)"
high rpm.
>> because it adds weight beyond the centerline of the crank, the
>> full circle concept means that more weight must be added to the main
>> counterweighted side of the crank.
>>
>> even when everything is in full balance you end up with a
>> heavy pig of a crank. among other things, the added weight is
>> detrimental to the life of the crank because it increases the stress
>> on the crank journals, which are already too small on a vw to begin
>> with.
Yes it's heavier, but will act more like a heavier flywheel. As to
stress on the crank journals, your probably correct, more weight is
slower to spin to speed, producing more tendency to twist.
>
> >Stop reading Berg's catalog and taking it for gospel. Good info there
> >but highly biased. The real issues with a full circle crank is
>
>> it sounds to me like you have a problem with the bergs. that's
>> fine, you're not alone, but instead of picking on them try and justify
>> your views by pointing out top-quality crank manufacturers that design
>> and sell that full circle crap... bernie bergmann is NOT in that
>> category, as you actually had the knowledge and foresight to point
>> out.
I don't know of any "quality full circle crank manufacturer"
>
> i'll spell it out real plainly for you: the best flat four
> engines in the world, by far, are designed and run by vendors and
> racers on the pro racing association drag racing circuit. they lead
> the world in this technology, and i can guarantee you that you won't
> find much, if any, of that full circle crap in their engines.
>
> dan
I've used two of BB's full circle cranks, a 90mm and an 82mm. Both are
still together and see regular use. However these are low compression,
low performance engines, (~130-150 HP). I was a little scared using them
and recommended Scat or Demello, but budget dictated BB. On a side note,
talk to BB about his cranks, he'll tell you they are better than
Pauter's.
Joe Cali - Next Generation
Kaferdave
the PRA circuit, and has folloed them for many years. He knows what works in
the most severe of applications, like an 8 second door slammer Beetle
Kyle
Joe Cali - Next Generation wrote in message
<73lfnn$d...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>What ever happened to roller cranks.
>Joe
I see 74mm rollers at swaps every now an then for around $700+/-. Fine if
they aren't shot. Can't be rebuilt, well they can, but anyone that could do
it could build you a new one.
Kyle
59 single cab
67 Westfailure
John Connolly
"it's as good as a SCAT, Berg, or Pauter crank"..
that tells you something. You would never hear a Pauter guy say
"It's as good as a Bergman crank"
would you?
John
Mike Testa wrote:
--
John Connolly
taken APART to replace the bearings. With this in mind, they are PRESSED
together and when subjected to high power shock loads (drag racing, off
roading, etc) they TWIST out of shape. A one piece crank is needed for these
applications. In addition, the roller bearings self destruct in no time if
detonation is occurring (= hitting parts with hammer, right?).
John
Joe Cali - Next Generation wrote:
> What ever happened to roller cranks.
> Joe
> Mike Testa wrote in message <365E35B9...@home.com>...
John Connolly
I used to play rugby (was pretty good too) and occassionally our team would have
some guy from England or Australia show up. Everyone would assume that they
would be incredible (must have been from their accent or something) since it was
a big sport there. WRONG.
People that VW mechanics with a German accent must know what the hell they are
doing. It's impressive to the average Joe, but come on.....our cars haven't been
around long enough for some of us to have those VW Mechanic genetics yet.
John
Joe Cali - Next Generation
Joe
John Connolly wrote in message <365EB678...@bigfoot.com>...