VW Bug Catching Fire?
John William Kuthe
John <75031...@compuserve.com> wrote:
(who really needs to learn about the <return. key, and CR/LF's)
> My Parents own a '67 VW bug but don't use it much. In the past few
>years it seems like every time I see a vehicle on fire, it's almost
>always a VW bug. Doesn't anyone know why these cars are more likely
>to catch fire, and if there's any preventive maintenance to avoid
>this from happening? Any help would be appreciated.
Yeah, a real easy preventative maintenance step, called "replacing
that 28+ year old fuel line in the engine compartment"!
When it splits and leaks, guess where the gas goes? Yeah. all over a
nice hot engine, which is probably running too hot anyway, cause
anyone too lazy to replace fuel line has probably neglected a lot of
other things too.
Can you spell "burst into flames"?
The motto of all this sarcastic crap is: Take good care of your Bug,
and it will take good care of you.
Peace,
--
John Kuthe, aka jw...@cec.wustl.edu, St. Louis, Missouri |MWA Homepage: |
First Job of Government: Protect people from govermment.|http://walden.mo.net|
Second Job of Government: Protect people from each other.|/~akravetz/mwa.html |
It must *never* become the job of government to protect people from themselves!
Robert Cope
You forgot to mention that Magnesium (ie the case) likes to burn. A lot.
robert
--
Robert Cope
rob...@bga.com
Peter J. Lima
>In article <47t9t8$5...@dub-news-svc-1.compuserve.com>,
>John <75031...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>(who really needs to learn about the <return. key, and CR/LF's)
>> My Parents own a '67 VW bug but don't use it much. In the past few
>>years it seems like every time I see a vehicle on fire, it's almost
>>always a VW bug. Doesn't anyone know why these cars are more likely
>>to catch fire, and if there's any preventive maintenance to avoid
>>this from happening? Any help would be appreciated.
>Yeah, a real easy preventative maintenance step, called "replacing
>that 28+ year old fuel line in the engine compartment"!
>When it splits and leaks, guess where the gas goes? Yeah. all over a
>nice hot engine, which is probably running too hot anyway, cause
>anyone too lazy to replace fuel line has probably neglected a lot of
>other things too.
Another, even simpler cause is the fuel filter coming loose -- if it's one of
those transparent plastic cone-shaped ones with the paper insert. When they're
installed above the engine improperly it's possible for it to work its way
loose thus spewing petrol all over the place. I had a mechanic re-install mine
once UNDERNEATH the car. It's a little tougher to change, but if it comes
loose the petrol won't dump over the engine.
This is also something to look for when buying a used Bug -- black carbon
deposits in the rear well or engine compartment, or evidence of overpainting
in these places. It may be a sign that the compartment has previously caught
fire.
PJL
'58 Bug/'79 Bus
Mdberry
I try to route the wiring as from the carb as possible.
Mark
66 Bus
Rocknhawk
75031...@compuserve.com (John) writes:
> Doesn't anyone know why these cars are more likely to catch fire, and if
>there's any preventive maintenance to avoid this from happening? Any
help
>would be appreciated.
1) Make sure that little rubber grommet where your fuel line comes
through the firewall is healthy and well seated. If it isn't,
vibration
and metal-on-metal could result in a leak.
2) Keep your plug wires from resting against your fuel line. Given
enough
time, errant spark could perforate the line, as well as ignite that
which
issues forth.
3) Periodically check the condition of the rubber fuel line downstream of
the fuel pump (to the carb). This one is pressurized and will really
squirt
when it fails.
Airkooled
of the left side of the carb.
Since it's brass and the carb body aluminum their expansion rates are
slightly different. Heat cycled enough, along with normal vibration these
things can work themselves loose. They're only interference fit.
It's a good idea to now and then remove the fuel line from the carb and
with a small hammer, lightly tap the end of this tube to make sure it is
seated.
Have seen many a burned Bug and when there was enough left to investigate,
this tube coming out of the carb was the cause in 90% of the cases.
The same thing can happen with the accelerator pump jet tube. It's kind of
a U shaped piece of small brass tubing that sits near the top of the carb
(close to the choke plate) and squirts gas down the throat of the carb
when the throttle is opened.
It's seat is just a cone shaped piece of brass that sits in a tapered hole
cast into the carb body. These too can come loose. Usually though it's
from rough handeling while the carb is off the engine but it does have the
same heat cycling problems.
And when this bugger comes off, it ends up in one of the cylinders. Number
four most of the time, don't know why. It too can be VERY gently tapped
into it's seat. If you can see down the carbs throat and locate this
thing, it has a small ridge at the top of the seat. Take a screwdriver,
set the blade on this ridge and GENTLY tapp it.
Another idea is to remove both of these weak links and glue them in with
some Lock Tite green (Stud and Bearing Mount). That's what I did, but I
carry a fire extinguisher anyway.
Airkooled
Nick Kneen
> My Parents own a '67 VW bug but don't use it much.
> In the past few years it seems like every time I see a vehicle on fire, it's almost always a VW bug.
> Doesn't anyone know why these cars are more likely to catch fire,
> and if there's any preventive maintenance to avoid this from happening?
> Any help would be appreciated.
>John 75031...@compuserve.com
Thus it is a very good idea to carry a 1A10BC extinguisher with you.
Check your gas hoses- as they get older, even though a fresh cut end
looks OK, they will crack and split much more easily. Use German.
Check the outlet pipe from the fuel pump- they are only swedged in
and can come loose, spraying gas under pressure all about.
Nick..
Dave Mays
friend of mine had her '71 beetle catch fire on the way tochool one
morning, due to a piece of her back seat coming in contact with the
terminals of her battery. The back seat was toast, needless to say....
--
| My opinions are not yours. | |
| | |
| | |
| Dave Mays | st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu|
VWdriven
cars I found that did not have any clamps attached to the fuel lines. It
may sound simple, but I bet it is the cause of many engine fires. A while
back I had a small electrical fire due to a a lose blue coil that slipped
and shorted out my ignition. Luckily, I caught it in time but if there
was a gas leak, toasted engine.
Adam Braun
: There's one you have all overlooked: The battery under the rear seat! A
: morning, due to a piece of her back seat coming in contact with the
: terminals of her battery. The back seat was toast, needless to say....
Yea, my dad was telling me about some guy on the side of the road whom he and
my uncle helped while his bug was on fire (I guess he was trying to talk me out of buying my bug, no luck) but anyways, he said they would put the fire out then
it would just start up again, so when it was out they had to crawl in the back
and disconnect the battery and then no more fire... so
Has anybody found an easy alternative place to locate their Battery in their
bugs ? I have thuoght about under the hood but the wiring would not be very
convient, and keeping it from flying all over the place would be a problem....
So what do YOU think ?
Adam Braun
'70 Bug
Joseph G Perez
: Has anybody found an easy alternative place to locate their Battery in their
: bugs ? I have thuoght about under the hood but the wiring would not be very
: convient, and keeping it from flying all over the place would be a problem....
: So what do YOU think ?
The only good answer to this is to use a marine-style battery box. This
not only prevents accidental contact, but also saves your floor pan from
damage due to acid spillage, etc.
-=>Joe Perez<=-
-=>pin...@grove.ufl.edu<=-
John Connolly
> There's one you have all overlooked: The battery under the rear seat! A
> friend of mine had her '71 beetle catch fire on the way tochool one
> morning, due to a piece of her back seat coming in contact with the
> terminals of her battery. The back seat was toast, needless to say....
>
the genuine bug battery is supposed to have a cover
over the + terminal to prevent this....
get the real battery...
John
--
Nostromo
: Dave Mays (st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu) wrote:
: : There's one you have all overlooked: The battery under the rear seat! A
: : friend of mine had her '71 beetle catch fire on the way tochool one
: : morning, due to a piece of her back seat coming in contact with the
: : terminals of her battery. The back seat was toast, needless to say....
: Yea, my dad was telling me about some guy on the side of the road whom he and
: my uncle helped while his bug was on fire (I guess he was trying to talk me out of buying my bug, no luck) but anyways, he said they would put the fire out then
: it would just start up again, so when it was out they had to crawl in the back
: and disconnect the battery and then no more fire... so
: Has anybody found an easy alternative place to locate their Battery in their
: bugs ? I have thuoght about under the hood but the wiring would not be very
: convient, and keeping it from flying all over the place would be a problem....
: So what do YOU think ?
Why on earth would you want to move the battery? Because a couple of
people don't keep thier cars up and they catch fire? If your worried
then cover the terminal. A well maintained Bug will not catch fire.
-------------------------------------------------------
"In space, no one can hear you scream...unless you yell
really, really loud."
KC Hunt <kh...@earthlink.net> NOSTROMO s/n 180924609
Brian Young
>Yeah, a real easy preventative maintenance step, called "replacing
>that 28+ year old fuel line in the engine compartment"!
I once opened the lid to my engine compartment and nearly needed a new
pair of underwear.
Seems one of the plug wires was touching some of the sheet metal and
was making a nice big spark. Okay...so...
That doesn't go well when you also see that a hose clamp has worked its
way loose and an end on the fuel line is spraying some fuel into the air.
Holy smokes, batman!
Now here is the weird thing. Any car could have fuel line failures and
everything else that causes bugs to catch fire. Now why the hell is it
that so many bugs sport blackend rear-ends, from engine fires? Not just
bugs, really. Seen a lotta vans with charcoaled butts too. Maybe
it is because the engines are usually so reliable (believe it or not)
that they can go for such long periods of time with no attention
whatsoever, thus letting the lines get to bad.
Remember...Bugs don't leak oil.....they just mark their spot!
JD Jones
Everybody knows that their bug isn't going to be one that catches on fire.
"Hell, I've been driving Volkswagens for over 30 years and I ain't never needed a fire
extinguisher."
"I know that all Volkswagen bugs are prone to fire in the engine area and that all bugs
with the battery under the back seat are prone to catching fire in the back seat area; but,
don't you realize that fire extinguishers cost more than $20? And I'll bet that most
everybody that has had a fire extinguisher has never had to use it on his own car. The
people with the fires are always (it seems) to be the ones that don't have an extinguisher
at hand."
How many of VW's out there carry fire extinguishers?
How many of you don't.
If I were in sales, I think this would be a great market to capture. I'm not in sales but I
would like to see every Volkswagen bug out there carrying an extinguisher.
It saddens me greatly every time I see another burned out bug.
Let's make the fire extinguisher industry ramp up production and all buy/carry a good
fire extinguisher...
End Of Rant
John M. Bilek
those things prone to fires?" I just say if you spend about $1 on hose
clamps for the fuel line and check 'em you're ok. If you have a battery
strap and cover on the battery like it's supposed to have, you're ok. If
you even have that little plastic cover over the positive terminal,
you're ok...Prone to fires...Ha!
Johnny.
'62 Bug
'68 Sunroof Bug
Joseph J Helwig
>You know, this topic alway cheeses me off! I always get asked "aren't
>those things prone to fires?" I just say if you spend about $1 on hose
>clamps for the fuel line and check 'em you're ok. If you have a battery
>strap and cover on the battery like it's supposed to have, you're ok. If
>you even have that little plastic cover over the positive terminal,
>you're ok...Prone to fires...Ha!
Yes, prone to fires - my '73 bug went up in a spectacular fire, caused
by a leaky bushing on the carb. I HAD clamps on a NEW fuel line and I
HAD the proper battery AND cover. I now carry a fire extinguisher
"just in case".
BTW, the insulation under the headliner in my '64 bug was straw!! The
headliner was orginal (torn, stained, and ugly). Can you imagine how
fast the car would have burnt up if a 'cherry' from a cigarette would
touch the headliner??
Also, have you checked your wiring harness lately?? Wires can become
brittle with age, and electrical fires can happen rather easily.
Joe Helwig 76534...@CompuServe.com
'64 beetle
'85 Nissan 200SX XE
Heather Haindel
I couldn't decide where to put it. It is behind the back seat... Yeah,
pretty useless. I have flares back there, too.
Does anyone know where the best place to keep these is?
John M. Bilek
>
>Yes, prone to fires - my '73 bug went up in a spectacular fire, caused
>by a leaky bushing on the carb. I HAD clamps on a NEW fuel line and I
>HAD the proper battery AND cover. I now carry a fire extinguisher
>"just in case".
>
>BTW, the insulation under the headliner in my '64 bug was straw!! The
>headliner was orginal (torn, stained, and ugly). Can you imagine how
>fast the car would have burnt up if a 'cherry' from a cigarette would
>touch the headliner??
>
>Also, have you checked your wiring harness lately?? Wires can become
>brittle with age, and electrical fires can happen rather easily.
>
Oh, okay...My grandpa's '76 F150 caught on fire, does that mean all Ford
trucks are prone to fire? I think not. The problem is, people have to
realize that they're driving old cars! If you are going to drive *any*
car, you have to check these things out. ANY car that has a fuel line
failure in the engine compartment is prone to catch fire. Don't you
look your engine compartment everytime you check your oil at each
fill-up? If you want a low maintenance car, go buy a new Honda.
Johnny
Joseph J Helwig
>Oh, okay...My grandpa's '76 F150 caught on fire, does that mean all Ford
>trucks are prone to fire? I think not. The problem is, people have to
>realize that they're driving old cars! If you are going to drive *any*
>car, you have to check these things out. ANY car that has a fuel line
>failure in the engine compartment is prone to catch fire. Don't you
>look your engine compartment everytime you check your oil at each
>fill-up? If you want a low maintenance car, go buy a new Honda.
>Johnny
If you read my post, I said that a bushing on the CARB was faulty. My
fuel lines were new, and YES I use clamps on the fuel line, and YES I
look at the engine compartment when I checked the oil each MORNING
before I drove the car, and every time I put fuel into it. I defy
anyone to notice that the carb drips gasoline only at full throttle. I
agree that we are driving old cars, and IMHO, that is the best reason
to carry a fire extinguisher - Shit happens.
I have rebuilt my '64 bug (and buddy I mean rebuilt - I have crawled
over every inch of this car, and have replaced EVERY part I suspected
of being worn), and it probably won't have any problems for quite a
while. BUT, I still carry a fire extinguisher, as it is cheap
insurance, and will allow me to minimize damage to my VW.
Airkooled
writes:
>> And I'll bet that most everybody that has had a fire extinguisher has
never had to use it on his own car. The people with the fires are always
(it seems) to be the ones that don't have an extinguisher at hand." <<
>How many of VW's out there carry fire extinguishers?
One early morning (about 1:30 am) I was driving through Midlothian Texas
on my way to the farm house to take some milk and food to the resident
barn cat when my 70 Bug suddenly died. Didn't worry me much until I
noticed the smoke coming out of the vents behind the back window. Then it
was "Panic City". Leaped out and tried to smother the flames with a
rapidly removed shirt only to fan the flames. Decided to smother it with
dirt. Reached down, grabed a handful of gravel and threw it with all my
might at what was now a raging inferno! Ahhhhhhh!!!!!
By this time flames were leaping out of the vents. Had it not been for
that milk that I was taking to the cat, the Bug would have burned to a
crisp (Pee Yew!!). Next day, changed the carb, dist. and rewired the
engine with speaker wire (except of course the plug wires) and went
straight to the carwash to get rid of the smell.
Many years later, as I was leaving my girlfriends, I looked back in
astonishment to see that the street was on fire where my Ghia had just
been. This time I had a fire extinguisher.
Yeah, it's a good idea.
If you don't want to drop the bucks (about $12 at K-Mart) I suggest that
you carry a 2 liter bottle of club soda (not sure how well this would work
for those of you that live where the weather is usually freezing). You can
shake it up and aim it like a bottle of Champagne at the end of a Gran
Prix race. It is surprisingly effective due to the fact that club soda is
carbonated by (you guessed it) CO 2. It will extinguish all but the
largest of gas/oil fires.
Airkooled
"You can learn a lot from Stupidity!"
John M. Bilek
that *any* old car is prone to fires, not just VW's. I really don't
think a 1962 VW is any more prone to fires than a 1962 Galaxie. Also,
when I said "fuel line failure," I shouls have said fuel *system*
failure. That is what the brain said to type, the fingers just didn't
follow orders! :) You but gas on hot heads, whether it's a 390 V8 or a
1200 flat-four, it's gonna catch.
Timothy Root
>Does anyone know where the best place to keep these is?
I have mine mounted up in front of the stick shift. It inspires great
confidence in my passengers that I carry a fire suppression device in such a
prominent location.
I've never had a bug fire but a fire extinguisher saved my butt when I had a
busted power steering line spew transmission fluid all over the exhaust
manifold in my 68 Mustang. I cut the P.S. belt and was on my way. (Still need
to repaint those valve covers!)
-Tim
Chris Chubb
>
>psu0...@odin.cc.pdx.edu (Heather Haindel) wrote:
>>Does anyone know where the best place to keep these is?
>
>I have mine mounted up in front of the stick shift. It inspires great
>confidence in my passengers that I carry a fire suppression device in such a
>prominent location.
Again, It will be the best $15 you ever spent. They saved my butt more
than once. Also, replace them every 5 years. The pressure gauges
on them only ever read Full.
I want to get a sprinker system head with a valve that opens at 600F,
and put it on the end of an extinguisher and put it on the roof
of the Bus' engine compartment. The first flame licks should fire
that puppy off. Or, I know that many racers have systems with
pull handles from the drivers seat that open the bottle.
Tie that into one of those hold-open fuel solenoids tied to the
ignition, and you should save yourself much agony.
At least get the solenoid. It only lets fuel flow from the tank when
they ignition is on. Will keep a burned line from dumping
even more gas on the fire, and can operate (with an inline switch)
as an anti theft device).
Dont keep the home-fires burning.
--
Chris Chubb -- cch...@ida.org (Alexandria, VA)
** Leading a life of noisy desperation. **
My opinions and $0.75 will get you a cup of coffee.
Airkooled
(Airkooled) writes:
If you can't find Locktite green, use the red.
Airkooled
Adam Braun
: psu0...@odin.cc.pdx.edu (Heather Haindel) wrote:
: >Does anyone know where the best place to keep these is?
: I have mine mounted up in front of the stick shift. It inspires great
: confidence in my passengers that I carry a fire suppression device in such a
: prominent location.
{snip}
I love it when somebody sits down and says "Whats THAY for?" (while pointing at the
fire extinguisher) I usually respond with " To keep the fire down when we burst
into flames" :)
Adam Braun
'70 bug
Peter J. Lima
>: I have mine mounted up in front of the stick shift. It inspires great
>: confidence in my passengers that I carry a fire suppression device in such a
>: prominent location.
>{snip}
> I love it when somebody sits down and says "Whats THAY for?" (while pointing at the
>fire extinguisher) I usually respond with " To keep the fire down when we burst
>into flames" :)
> Adam Braun
>'70 bug
O.K., I guess the next obvious question is, What KIND of extinguisher is best?
With engine fires where you got gasoline & electricity I guess you want a
non-water based extinguisher like a CO2 or Halon, that will put the fire out
without leaving a messy residue (as foam does.) What is preferred by those of
us out there wise enough to carry extinguishers?
PJL
'58 Bug
'79 Bus