Saturn's response to oil burning
Jon Rogers
I, like many others, have the problem of my 95 Saturn SC2 with 60K miles
now burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles. So I emailed them to see
what they would do. Here's their response with my original email
following:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for writing Saturn Corporation. A gasoline engine uses oil
to lubricate the cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. All
efficient engines use some oil. If they did not, they would quickly
wear out. A standard rate of consumption cannot be established
because oil consumption depends upon the size of the engine, the
quality and viscosity of the oil, the speed at which the engine is
operated, the ambient temperature, and the amount of oil dilution and
oxidation that takes place.
In addition, these normal factors that contribute to the differences
in oil consumption may be misleading. For example, a car that runs
1,000 miles or more in city operation may consume a small amount of
oil. Due to the dilution (condensation of fuel and water) in the
crankcase, the dipstick measures up to the full mark. Later, when the
car is driven at high speeds on the highway, the dilution elements may
rapidly evaporate, and the appears to use oil in a short distance.
According to our Engineering Department, oil consumption of up to one
quart every 2,000 miles should be considered acceptable. If you feel
your Saturn is consuming oil beyond these parameters, we encourage you
to have Saturn of Hartford conduct an oil consumption test.
As far as we know, there will be no recall or campaign on this
concern. If any recall or campaign occurs which involves your vehicle,
you would be notified by Federal Express mail.
An oil consumption test would be covered under the standard
3-year/36,000-mile New Car Limited Warranty if it is due to a warranty
related repair. However, since your vehicle is many miles out of
warranty, we could not cover this repair, if it is needed, for you.
You may wish to speak to the service manager, Tim Fogg, at Saturn of
Hartford if you have concerns about this.
The phone number at Saturn of Hartford is (860)249-1303 if you would
like to make an appointment for your oil consumption test. Thanks
again for writing.
Carol Neiger
Saturn Customer Assistance Center
f437128
On 5/07/98 18:12:29 you wrote:
>Year Model - :1995 SC2:
>Odometer - :61000 mi:
>
>Retailer - :Saturn of Hartford, Connecticut:
>Message -
>What is Saturn doing to address the problem of over consumption of
>oil. As soon as my car hit 55,000 miles I started burning a quart of
>oil every 1000 miles. This is not normal regardless of what the
>specs say.
>
>I've researched this and many many people are having the exact same
>problem. You have the beginning of a reputation problem on your
>hands. If Saturn is as devoted to the environment as they claim they
>would fix this problem right now instead of forcing owners to
>purchase more and more oil, a natural resource in itself.
>
>Will there be a recall to fix and how can I find out when it occurs?
>
>Is this problem covered under the standard warrantee?
>
>Thank you for addressing my concerns.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Moral of the story... don't buy a Saturn.
Unknown
I see Saturn is being very diplomatic about this. I have taken in many cars for
trade with in excess of 200,000 miles that did not burn oil excessively.
They are absolutely correct about the fantom oil problem, where gasoline
replaces the oil and makes people think they burned it, when in fact the
gasoline merely evaporates quickly. My Acura did that after having been driven
short distances for a while. And that can cause wear which will cause higher
consumption.
But there is a lot more to consumption that this. The type of transmission, the
drivers style, and the constancy of proper maintenance affect oil consumption
far more than any other factors. Many makers will state that using 1 quart in
500 miles can be considered normal. Stop and go city driving is the prime cause
of increased consumption, as is reckless abusive driving. But oil burning is
most often caused by poor maintenance.
On the slight chance that something is wrong with a NEWLY purchased car, any
increased consumption should be examined. If you have purchased a USED car
without warranty, you probably have no recourse.
You may also want to have an oil analysis done. It will pinpoint future failure
long before they occur, and aren't very expensive. Many oil companies will
perform such tests. I had several of my fleet vehicles tested, and halted the
purchase of certains brands of automobiles as a result.
RandyB359
>>I, like many others, have the problem of my 95 Saturn SC2 with 60K miles<BR>
>>now burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles
I have a 92 SC with 66,000 miles that uses about 1 quart of oil every 1000
miles. I took it to BR Procare and Firestone and both places told me that 1
quart per 1000 miles is not excessive for a 4 cylinder with 60,000 miles on it.
They said not to worry about it unless it dropped to 1 quart per 500 miles.
Derek J. Cashman
This oil burning thread is really a barrel of laughs!! Before owning a
Saturn, I drove a 1972 VW Beetle (also had a 1973 VW Beetle). Of course,
Bugs are great cars, but talk about burning oil!!!!!!!!
I think I put at least two quarts of oil in the thing per WEEK!!!!!
* Derek Cashman (dcas...@concentric.net)
Steven M. Scharf
Derek J. Cashman wrote in message <6j63bt$j...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>This oil burning thread is really a barrel of laughs!! Before owning a
>Saturn, I drove a 1972 VW Beetle (also had a 1973 VW Beetle). Of course,
>Bugs are great cars, but talk about burning oil!!!!!!!!
>
>I think I put at least two quarts of oil in the thing per WEEK!!!!!
Yes, but you could put in a new engine for $500. in any case air cooled
engines burn more oil because they run so hot.
reh
REH
1994 SL1, 80K
I purchased this car used with 24K on it. I immediately began using
Mobil 1 pure synthetic oil. It used about 1 qt every 800 to 1000
miles. After about 1 year, I switched to Casterol 5w-30, and the
consumption was reduced to 1 qt every 1500-2000 miles. I then
switched to Casterol 10w-30, and the consumption remained at 1qt ever
1500-2000 miles.
This car is only driven on the highway at 75 mph constantly. Less
than 10% is in-town mileage.
I believe that my car uses oil because the previous owner did not
properly maintain it. I believe that he may have never changed the
oil for the first 24K miles.
There is considerable oil varnish on all internal part that I can see.
I have decided to live with this problem. I keep oil in my trunk. I
purchase 6 qts every time I change the oil and add when I am below the
1/2 way mark.
I called my dealer and was told that this is normal due to the use of
"low retention" rings. I feel that this is a load of BS, but all
dealers are crooks, well Saturn of Knoxville, TN anyway (my attorney
friend has sued them successfully on the behalf of others 2 times, do
not believe this friendly, pally wally crap, they are just as crooked
as any other type of car dealer).
Otherwise this has been a good reliable car. I have only had to
replace the battery and tires so far. I am expecting the alternator
to go next.
Chris A. Epler
Derek J. Cashman <dcas...@concentric.net> wrote:
> This oil burning thread is really a barrel of laughs!! Before owning a
> Saturn, I drove a 1972 VW Beetle (also had a 1973 VW Beetle). Of course,
> Bugs are great cars, but talk about burning oil!!!!!!!!
> I think I put at least two quarts of oil in the thing per WEEK!!!!!
So those engines WERE two stoke engines.... ;)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Do not send Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail (UCE), legal action may be taken.
PGP KeyID: 1024/6BBCAFE5 1997/04/14 Chris A. Epler <cep...@esinet.net>
Jim
Just asking a question here. Would not the "burning" of a quart of oil
in a thousand miles raise the emissions level to a point that you could
no longer pass the test now imposed in a lot of states? If true, would
this not compromise Saturn's compliance with EPA rules? If true, would
not Saturn be forced to repair? Just asking.
--
Jim
http://www.cliffside-embroidery.com
reh
Gee, I guess so. Although, 1 qt/1000 miles is not too much, really.
There is no fouling of plugs etc. I would think that the emission
controls could manage this. Lucky for me, I live in TN where there is
no testing of auto's of any kind.
Chris Mauritz
Steven M. Scharf <sch...@grin.net> wrote:
> Derek J. Cashman wrote in message <6j63bt$j...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>>This oil burning thread is really a barrel of laughs!! Before owning a
>>Saturn, I drove a 1972 VW Beetle (also had a 1973 VW Beetle). Of course,
>>Bugs are great cars, but talk about burning oil!!!!!!!!
>>
>>I think I put at least two quarts of oil in the thing per WEEK!!!!!
> Yes, but you could put in a new engine for $500. in any case air cooled
> engines burn more oil because they run so hot.
Wow, Steve had better check his oil. With all the hot air he's been
dishing out, I hope he's drinking Mobil 1.
C
--
Crack the RSA RC5-64 encryption algorithm. Use your idle cpu
cycles to take part in the fastest computer on the planet.
See: http://www.distributed.net
Join: http://www.execpc.com/~silby/teamamd.html
Chris Mauritz
> I purchased this car used with 24K on it. I immediately began using
> Mobil 1 pure synthetic oil. It used about 1 qt every 800 to 1000
> miles. After about 1 year, I switched to Casterol 5w-30, and the
> consumption was reduced to 1 qt every 1500-2000 miles. I then
> switched to Casterol 10w-30, and the consumption remained at 1qt ever
> 1500-2000 miles.
> This car is only driven on the highway at 75 mph constantly. Less
> than 10% is in-town mileage.
> I believe that my car uses oil because the previous owner did not
> properly maintain it. I believe that he may have never changed the
> oil for the first 24K miles.
> There is considerable oil varnish on all internal part that I can see.
This may make your oil burning worse, but it might help the longevity
of your engine. Get rid of the varnish! :) Most auto parts stores
have engine "detergent" that you can add to your oil which will reduce
the amount of varnish on a poorly maintained engine. Generally, you
add a quart of the product (it's usually just kerosene or a close
relative), start the engine and allow it to idle for 10-15 mins.
Don't drive the car or race the engine. Turn off the engine, and
change the oil with cheap $1/qt 5W-30 oil. Drive it for a day or
two, and then change the oil again. This time, use a high quality
synthetic oil like Mobil 1 SAE 30. Saturn recommends 5W-30, but
Mobil 1 "straight 30" flows just as well and may improve your oil
burning as it has a higher flash point than their 5W30 product.
Then change your oil as normal (every 3K). You'll probably get
a really filthy change after the first 3k with synthetic as they
tend to have high detergency which will clear even more varnish
out of your engine.
Hope this helps.
Chris
kil...@beasys.com
In article <355714...@cliffside-embroidery.com>,
J...@cliffside-embroidery.com wrote:
>
> Just asking a question here. Would not the "burning" of a quart of oil
> in a thousand miles raise the emissions level to a point that you could
> no longer pass the test now imposed in a lot of states? If true, would
> this not compromise Saturn's compliance with EPA rules? If true, would
> not Saturn be forced to repair? Just asking.
> --
> Jim
> http://www.cliffside-embroidery.com
>
The emissions tests check for unburned hydrocarbons. At that level of oil
donsumption, it seems possible that any hydrocarbons in the oil that don't
actually get "burned" in the cylinder could be taken care of by the catalytic
converter, dropping the tailpipe emissions to within limits.
At any rate, the federal goverment mandates 50,000 mile warranties on emission
control components. (I wonder if that applies to a burned out "Shift Up"
light?) So even if the oil consumption could be categotized under "emission
control components", that warranty would have expired fot the base noter.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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clog...@yahoo.com
In article <6j71qa$3...@netaxs.com>,
"Steven M. Scharf" <sch...@nospam.grin.net> wrote:
>
>
> Derek J. Cashman wrote in message <6j63bt$j...@examiner.concentric.net>...
> >This oil burning thread is really a barrel of laughs!! Before owning a
> >Saturn, I drove a 1972 VW Beetle (also had a 1973 VW Beetle). Of course,
> >Bugs are great cars, but talk about burning oil!!!!!!!!
> >
> >I think I put at least two quarts of oil in the thing per WEEK!!!!!
>
> Yes, but you could put in a new engine for $500. in any case air cooled
> engines burn more oil because they run so hot.
>
>
not burn oil just because it runs hotter! More likely than not, the oil loss
was due to leaks.
Most people will agree that conventional oils will begin to lose their
lubricating abilities at around 235 - 245 degrees. Temps higher than that
are required to actually burn oil. Most air cooled VW's tend to max out, oil
temperature wise, at around 220 degrees, with most running lower than that.
If the overall temperature of the engine was such that it burned oil, it
would have to constantly run higher than the point at which the oil breaks
down and the engine would very quickly sieze up.
Oil is burned because there is a problem. There are a number of causes, but
it usually involves getting somewhere it shouldn't (i.e. by valves or rings
into the combustion chamber or outside the engine).
As a long time VW owner, and current owner of both an air cooled VW and a
Saturn, I can say that the Saturn loses more oil than my VW (with 60,000
miles on a rebuilt engine), or any VW I've ever owned, even with the leaks.
If you doubt my answer, try posting your statement to
rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled and see what kind of responses you get.
With regards to the Saturn, one thing that I noticed on mine was that there
seemed to be a lot of burned oil around the valve cover and in two of the
spark plug holes. After replacing the valve cover gasket, with additional
sealent as per the instructions, I can say that I have not noticed any more
burned oil and the oil consumption has dropped significantly. Just something
to consider...
-Chris
'93 SC2
'73 VW Thing (air cooled, 60,000+ miles and still going strong)
Neil Reimer
clog...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> In article <6j71qa$3...@netaxs.com>,
> "Steven M. Scharf" <sch...@nospam.grin.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Derek J. Cashman wrote in message <6j63bt$j...@examiner.concentric.net>...
> > >This oil burning thread is really a barrel of laughs!! Before owning a
> > >Saturn, I drove a 1972 VW Beetle (also had a 1973 VW Beetle). Of course,
> > >Bugs are great cars, but talk about burning oil!!!!!!!!
I own a 94 SL2 (my wife's car) and a 69 Bug (my car). The Saturn burns
about 1qt of oil every 4,000 miles. The VW does not noticebly burn
oil. It didn't during the 110,000 miles on the first engine or the
70,000 on the present modified engine. I've owned 5 bugs and only one
burned oil. It had worn rings due to high mileage. The rings were
easily replaced.
I change the oil every 3,000 miles on both cars anyway, so why should I
care if the Saturn burns a quart in 4,000 miles? There are no leaks and
no blue smoke.
Neil Reimer
-94 SL2
-69 VW Bug (daily driver for 24 years)