Noisy lifters on DOHC '01?
Paul
I was a little disappointed with the lifter noise in our 2001 SL2. Our
previous SL2's never had this problem.
Is Saturn addressing this noise? Or, are they getting careless and letting
their product go down hill?
Thanks
Paul
BANDIT2941
Check your oil......was it just changed??
Paul
owner. I also am quite familiar with the dealer buy-back program. Our first
Saturn buy-back was with our '96 SL2. I also only use Mobil1 5W - 30 and
change at 3K.
This is the second DOHC with the same problem. I did a dealer buy-back at
3000 miles for our 2000 SL2. They flew an "engineer" in to listen to the on
loud lifter. Engineer said it was within tolerance. I said "not for me it
isn't!" The dealer arranged for a buy-back and we moved into a 2001 SL2
which were out at this point. This one was fairly quiet until about 5ooo
miles, then started making some noise.
It is my impression that the factory is aware they have an engineering
problem in the 2000 & 2001 DOHC engines. The engineer did not waste any
time getting out to my dealer for this problem. His choice of words when
responding to the noise indicated that he was aware of this problem with
other Saturn owners, however, it was not loud enough for him to authorize a
fix or replacement. I'm sure if it was his Saturn or his wifes Saturn he
would not subject himself to the embarrasement of being stopped in traffic
and people from the car along side looking over to acknowlege they heard the
tapping!
My sons 2000 SL2 also is noisy the same way.
It's a shame too, this particular SL2 is a a good runner - not a dog like
some of them.
Anyone else experience valve train noise? I have used Mobil1 5W - 30 since
200 miles. We are now at 15K plus.
Thanks
Paul
> Check your oil......was it just changed??
"BANDIT2941" <bandi...@aol.comNHRA> wrote in message
news:20020313090543...@mb-ba.aol.com...
David&Ramona
also use Mobil 1 5W-30 (not that I think the oil is the cause). The
clicking always quiets down within a couple of minutes and doesn't return
until the car has been sitting with the engine off for a while. It seems to
be more pronounced in cold weather. The noise isn't very loud, but
noticeable. This engine now has 55,000 miles on it and has never had any
other problems, I've just learned to live with this very minor annoyance.
The clutch in this car is a different story. The clutch has always seemed a
little soft, which I attributed to it being a hydraulic clutch instead of
cable actuated. At around 52,000 miles, I pulled out to pass a truck,
dropped it back into 4th gear, engaged the clutch and floored it. The
clutch started slipping badly. I pulled back in behind the truck, put it in
5th gear and floored it again. Same thing, the clutch started slipping
badly. At 55,000 it's gotten much worse and will need replacement soon. It
feels as though the springs in the pressure plate are very weak or broken
because, if I'm very gentle with it the clutch doesn't slip at all. It's
just in high torque situations that it will spin. It feels as though the
pressure plate isn't holding the clutch tight enough against the flywheel.
No, I'm not riding the clutch or holding the car on hills with the clutch.
My Honda, which I replaced with the Saturn, had nearly 200,000 miles on it
before I replaced the original clutch, so I know how to take care of a
clutch. It just seems the one in my SL2 was very weak from the beginning.
Anyone else had this problem?
"Paul" <b...@rraz.net> wrote in message news:a6o11...@enews4.newsguy.com...
BANDIT2941
>before I replaced the original clutch, so I know how to take care of a
>clutch. It just seems the one in my SL2 was very weak from the beginning.
>Anyone else had this problem?
Wow I don't think I've heard about clutch in a Saturn going at 52k. You are
obviously not a newbie as you know how the clutch works and all, so I would
guess that your driving didn't kill the clutch. Is it possible that someone
else was driving your car that liked to slip it?
I put a new clutch disk in my 95 SC2 at 157k when I swapped motors and the old
disc was still in decent shape.
Jonnie Santos
lifter rattle, but a quick search at google.com didn't turn up any
references...
The only other reference to lifter rattle was low oil levels.
--
My valid email address contains no numbers.
"David&Ramona" <d&r...@play.com> wrote in message
news:a6v2no$b56$1...@iac5.navix.net...
Lawton Moore
"BANDIT2941" <bandi...@aol.comNHRA> wrote in message
news:20020316105021...@mb-dh.aol.com...
BANDIT2941
Man oh man........like I said, mine was still in decent shape at 157 and I
drive real hard.......also drag race it.
6th planet auto parts Inc
twin cams are experiencing a rod knock on start up! and saturn is aware of
this, my buddy had to turn his 01 sl2 in, at first it sounded like a weak
lifter at start up, by 15k, on A NEW saturn, the motor totally seized up, i
would get a stethoscope and try and locate if the noise is truly coming from
the lifters or the bottom end, saturn is trying to keep this quiet and they
have already had numerous complaints about this, i think they may be telling
you its the lifters to prevent them from having to give you a new motor!
it is a very light tick on start up and it only seems to be 2000-01-02 cars
doing this, like i said, i have seen it firsthand with my buddy Dan brand
new SL, his motor totally seized after saturn kept putting him off and
saying it was just a lifter tap, no new car should have ANY taps, clicking
etc. nowadays, its totally un-acceptable. no new car should have play in the
motor, weak lifters etc., thats why you bought NEW CAR, to avoid having
problems, i would seriously get another opinion, take it to an independent
shop, have them keep it overnight and do a cold start in the morning and see
if they can tell you where the noise is coming from, or , use a stethoscope,
when its dead cold put it on the block and listen at start up, next morning
do the same thing expect put it on the head and listen, you should, with the
scope, be able to tell where its coming from more clearly.news:a6mib...@enews4.newsguy.com...
Paul
right cylinders (looking toward the firewall from in front of car) and right
on the joint line of head to block and maybe an inch or so lower. The noise
was always there. It didnt go away and I believe it was probably a rod
knock.
The 2001 SL2 has two or three "clickers". They sound like they are right up
top, however, I have not listened with a stethoscope as yet. They are about
as loud as my 91 Honda Civic, if I would leave it go too long between valve
lash adjustments.
Thanks
Paul
"6th planet auto parts Inc" <sa...@6thplanetusedparts.com> wrote in message
news:KK3l8.22140$P4.19...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Cris Thomas
I have the same issue in my 01 SC2. the noise decrease a little after an
oil change but not much. The lifters are way louder than those in my 95
SC2. The 01 has only seen dealer service.
- Cris
In article <a6mib...@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Paul" <b...@rraz.net>
wrote:
Paul
valve train late model SL2's very often. If I see a SL2 in a parking lot I
will usually introduce myself to the owner and ask to listen for the noise.
Most of the late model SL2's I have listened to have been noisy. The dealer
excuse to these people varies, however, the answer is always has the same
meaning - "it's normal". Gee, does that statement ring a bell?
Thanks
Paul
"Cris Thomas" <cristh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cristhomas33-7B42...@news.bellatlantic.net...
6th planet auto parts Inc
99 and up twin cams, out of this small group one person mentions the
problem, i mention number two then you question it, then the very next post
is number 3 having the SAME PROBLEMS and, whats he told??? ITS NORMAL, thats
what i mean by another one of saturns cover up, who am i to accuse,
obviously you dont know who i am, i am the one guy who sees more failures
and what fails on saturns then ANY other person in the country, i field
thousands of complaints, i see trends each year as to whats failing and
whats working, now, we , in the group are a very SMALL
%tage of the people that own saturns, and in two days alltready 3 cases are
written about , now take into consideration the 1`20-140 emails i get a day
from owners all over the country asking about the same thing, and then,
being told by saturn its normal, THEIR STANDARD LINE FOR SCREW UPS SINCE DAY
ONE. theres no false accusations here my friend, only fact from the one guy
who knows more about what fails on these cars then anyone.
"vze3bdmd" <vze3...@verizon.com> wrote in message
news:vze3bdmd-9C4701...@news.bellatlantic.net...
>
> Could you tell me please how you know that "saturn is trying to keep
> this quiet"?
>
> Do you have documented proof? Or do you know that two people have
> complianed and they haven't done anything? two people does not a
> probolem make. Unless you know and can prove that Saturn corp is hiding
> information please do not go around making false accusations.
>
> - vze
>
>
> In article <KK3l8.22140$P4.19...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Cris Thomas
Well I can't hear the noise inside the car so it doesn't really bother
me that much. And since I know there is oil in there I don't really
worry about it. Usually when I hear a similar noise in my 95 I know I am
low on oil. This car has made the noise since new and I really haven;t
thought about it. One thing I don't like is that idles a little rough.
I can feel the engine bouncing around when stopped at red lights and
stuff. My 95 which is heavily modified is much smoother.
- Cris
In article <a77er...@enews4.newsguy.com>, "Paul" <b...@rraz.net>
wrote:
BANDIT2941
>Making such accusations doesn't help Saturn Corp and it doesn't help
>people get there cars fixed. All it does help spread Fear, Uncertantity
>and Doubt. If you have proof, documented numbers, hard statistics, lets
>see them. Lets take them to NHTSC and force Saturn to do something about
>it. Otherwise, all your doing is spreading rumour and innuendo and not
>helping anyone.
From what I see, Joe is just stating the facts as he sees a ton of Saturn stuff
all the time. A person that owns a business like Joe does and sees this stuff
day in and day out can't say "It seems to me that a lot of 99-up cars have
engine failures" ??? Why?
I also don't believe that Saturn has come totally up front about all of this
either.
T
matter. Using Mobil 1 5W-30 since first oil change; now have 35k.
Paul
the first place. There is absolutely no excuse for a modern car with
hydraulic lifters to click or tap. These problems have pretty much been
gone since the sixties. (Some of us even remember the 56 Olds "sowing
machine") Except, of course, by the tapping brought on by pure neglect on
the part of the owner due to lack of proper maintenance.
As far as the viewpoint of "vze3bdmd" regarding a defensive stance regarding
Saturn and their cover-up of problems - Saturn is by far not alone in this
practice. It would seem that vze may not be that familiar with Saturn and
their tactics. I have been buying Saturns since 1995 and believe I have a
good handle on what goes on. a good network of dealers cooperating, for the
most part with Spring Hill, can do allot to keep a "fire from spreading".
There are those of use, I am sure, in this newsgroup, given the time and
money to do so, could easily make a case against Saturn as well as many
other branches of GM, Ford or Mopar. Unfortunately, most of us have to work
for a living and cannot afford to be a "cause" person. I personally have
been buying Saturns because it is easier that going to traditional
dealership and doing the "haggle dance". I was never very good at it
anyway. Is Saturn my first choice in the SL2 price range? Surely it is
not! However, there are only a given amount of hours in each day and one
must prioritize our expenditure of effort to avoid burn-out. I have
realized, after way too many years, that the phrase from a favorite song
"Don't Worry - Be Happy" makes allot of sense, at least in my life.
I have a couple of really great Saturn horror stories I could bore this
group with. But, they are over and in the past now. I will say one positive
thing about my old Saturn dealership, Saturn of South Burlington Vermont,
They run a tight ship there. General Manager Todd Mobley knows how to
properly treat customers and he has his people trained very well. I would
hope that there would be other Saturn GM's out there, in other parts of the
country, that handle problems like Mr. Mobley, but I doubt it. Thank you
forever, Todd. Hopefully you check into this group from time to time.
Well, that's my .02 for tonight.
Regards to all.
Paul
"Cris Thomas" <cristh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cristhomas33-1E03...@news.bellatlantic.net...
Michael
because it will be one of those run away posts. no matter how much
"covering up" Saturn supposedly does I love mine and that's my story and I'm
sticking to it.
"vze3bdmd" <vze3...@verizon.com> wrote in message
news:vze3bdmd-E5F901...@news.bellatlantic.net...
> In article <20020319163928...@mb-fo.aol.com>,
> bandi...@aol.comNHRA (BANDIT2941) wrote:
>
> > "It seems to me that a lot of 99-up cars have engine failures" ??? Why?
>
> Saying the above is a lot different than saying "This is a problem that
> Saturn knows about and is covering up."
>
> The former is a valid question based on experiance. Without proof the
> second statement is nothing more than a flame.
>
> > I also don't believe that Saturn has come totally up front about all of
this
> > either.
>
> I have no problem with people stating what they belive but coming out
> and accusing a coverup as a known fact without evidence to back it up
> borders on libel.
Paul
it. I just don't think I will keep it at lease end. At least under the
provisions of a lease I have protection.
Regards,
Paul
"Michael" <iked...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rsTl8.79394$q2.8953@sccrnsc01...
Bickford, R. (Richard)
actually piston contraction/expansion? It's the valvetrain?
On my mustang with forged pistons it does the same thing. At least it
sounds identical and I know for a fact it's the forged pistons I am
hearing.
On a cold day say below 45F and the motor has not run for 8+ hrs, you
can hear a very light rattle for the first minute or so. (SL2)
Are there any links someone can give showing more info about Saturns and
this noise?
Thanks,
1acondguy
lot for this very reason. After seeing that they all sounded the same, I
brushed it off as just hearing the top end more because of the dual cams. I
recall hearing the top end on a lot of 4 cylinder cars including Honda,
Nissan, and Toyota.
One of my wife's friends has a 1 1/2 Yr old Altima that is every bit as loud
or louder than our Saturn, and she didn't think it was any different from
others that she test drove at the Nissan dealer, and they tell her it's
normal.
We paid a lot less for this Saturn too. My only complaint about the car is
the brake rotors. I hate having a car with warped rotors, especially with
only 20,000 mi. Dealer changed them once under warranty too.
Alex
"Paul" <b...@rraz.net> wrote in message news:a77er...@enews4.newsguy.com...
> Thank you Chris. Finally someone willing to speak up! I
mwillis309
the likelihood of warped rotors. It is better to slow with several "hard"
pushes then to keep the pedal down for the whole deceleration period. That
half to a full second between applications gives the rotor a chance to cool
off. Pad to rotor for ten to twenty seconds just doesn't ever give time for
cooling.
"1acondguy" <1aco...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:fz1o8.50369$V9.13...@typhoon1.we.ipsvc.net...
Bickford, R. (Richard)
"thermocycle" the disks. This would be a worse condition than what I
would call normal braking. It's not the heat alone that warps rotors,
when you rapidly thremocycle iron parts you get uneven temps
throughout. And these uneven temps combined with high/low pressures
from the clamping forces from the lugnuts/rim/brake pads? It will only
serve decrease the life of the involved iron parts.
Leaving your foot on the pedal and "riding" the brake (slowing over a
long distance) I would agree with you puts excess heat into them
therefor creating a larger than designed for thermocycle. Also the
ones I call "brake dancers" will purchase brakes jobs quite often. (the
ones who follow so close that they have to "stand" on the brakes every
1000ft or so because they are not able to account for the person in
front of them letting off the gas)
personally I get about 125k miles out of the original factory brakes on
my cars. At which point I am just starting to feel a little pulse in
the pedal.