Arco vs. Chevron vs. Exxon vs. Shell vs. 76 vs. Valero vs...
Crunchy Cookie
Anyway, does anyone have opinions on the quality of gas from different stations?
It always surprises me to hear people say things like "my 240SX runs way
smoother on premium Chevron Techron" or "Arco gas totally screws up my Tercel's
mileage." Don't most companies pump gas from the same refineries, and simply
add their own, mostly ineffective, additives? Rumor has it that Shell's is tops
and Arco's is bottom.
simpleton
in at the distributor. the deal out here is bp, they're selling amoco 93
cheaper than anyone.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Du80c.2007$PR3.30461@attbi_s03...
y_p_w
simpleton wrote:
> yep, gas is all the same....it is pumped in a pipe and additives are mixed
> in at the distributor. the deal out here is bp, they're selling amoco 93
> cheaper than anyone.
I wouldn't always say that. I rememeber reading an article about a
refinery being closed here in California, and how it would affect
the price of gas. They had a list of refineries - including several
independent refineries, but most were owned by BP, Chevron, or Shell.
Some of the "off brands" such as Valero or Tesoro had their own
refineries. Strangely enough - Arco no longer has a refinery in
California.
I would suppose that a Chevron station primarily uses Chevron fuel.
However - refineries have shortages, and they're not above buying
fuel on the open market to fill their needs. If the brand name isn't
attached to a local refinery, then it likely comes from one of the
bigger brand refineries.
edannan
discussed.
"y_p_w" <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Jxa0c.13701$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
Raw gasoline is a commodity. All the refineries (with a few
exceptions) make it the same to meet the State and Federal smog laws,
which is why the areas requiring "reformulated gasoline" are a bit
higher.
It all gets commingled out of necessity - it takes a few days (or
weeks for long pipelines) for one particular gallon of gasoline to get
through the pipeline system from the refinery to your local tank yard,
so they operate on a "1 gallon in, one gallon out" system.
When they fill the tanker truck to bring it to your local gas
station, they either add the oil brand's proprietary additive &
detergent package (like Chevron's Techron) or a generic for
independent stations buying their gasoline on the 'spot market'.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
simpleton
fungible is the word. it is shipped in a pipe.
"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHO...@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:51i240hct8qbpum3g...@4ax.com...
Horseman
gas is probably the worst quality gas one can get (among known brands),
regardless of octane. It made my '93 Honda Accord ping on acceleration. I
usually fill up with Esso, Shell, Petro-Canada or Sunoco (87 octane), and my
car runs well with all of these. Up until recently, my father was using
Crappy Tire gas in his '04 Corolla. But I finally convinced him to switch to
an aforementioned better brand. :-)
They're all priced about the same (within the same locale), but the quality
of some brands is higher than others.
SHARX.
Here in Edmonton, Canada, gas is *not priced all about the same*. At the
very least, I pay 7.5 cents a litre less than the sign price: the pump
price is 4 cents less than the sign price at Save-on Gas and one can opt, on
production of their *gasp* *horrors* Save-on loyalty card, for a further 4
cents a litre off the sign price, redeemable in merchandise. This I spend on
loss leaders or on staples, such as milk which costs about the same as the
lowest price store in the city. Some of the independents circulate coupons
good for 5 cents off a litre, e.g. Domo. Canadian Tire here gives about 5
cents a litre off a litre in Canadian Tire money, good on merchandise
at...Canadian Tire. Sometimes Save-on in their weekly flyer has a coupon
good for $2 off a minimum 30 litre purchase *in addition* to all the other
discounts I mentioned. So, with the coupon, if the sign says 70 cents a
litre at Save-on and I buy the minimum 30 litre purchase, in effect, I'm
getting gas at 55.84 cents a litre, a discount of 20.2 %. By the way, for
years before switching to Save-on, I did buy Canadian Tire regular gas for
my 99 Camry 6 cyl. and NEVER had any trouble whatsoever with it. YMMV,
obviously.
C L
their cars in for EPA testing. Not sure if this is still true (or has ever
been true), but if it is, one may draw the conclusion that Chevron gas must
either have lower emissions, give better gas mileage, or both. Can anyone
out there confirm if they use only Chevron gas for EPA testing?
"SHARX." <SH...@SHARXTANKnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ywe0c.33711$A12.12136@edtnps84...
ppoi...@nospamindspring.com
Bruce L. Bergman
> I've been told that the Big Three always use Chevron gas when they take
>their cars in for EPA testing. Not sure if this is still true (or has ever
>been true), but if it is, one may draw the conclusion that Chevron gas must
>either have lower emissions, give better gas mileage, or both. Can anyone
>out there confirm if they use only Chevron gas for EPA testing?
I'd have to do some research, but IIRC the EPA tests are supposed to
require the car to be run on "normal pump gasoline". After that,
there's probably some wiggle room for the automakers... ;-)
For the best mileage results on the tests, they might well be
trucking in Chevron (to get their allegedly better additive package)
and from a certain area to get an unoxygenated gasoline blend that
will make the mileage cycle test results come out in their favor. No
MTBE or Ethanol oxygenate in the fuel = highest BTU per gallon content
possible = highest gas mileage possible.
Rich Lockyer
wrote:
>Google Search "techron" to give you some insight. Other additives are also
>discussed.
I did. All I found was sales hype from people selling it or from
Chevron, and a few messages on boards proclaiming that it's better
than sex.
--- Rich
http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Steve T
I haven't found -much- difference in pump gas other than around here a place
called "quick trip" gas. That stuff is awful. Their 93 makes my old
Mitsubishi truck with 8.8:1 comp ping. We've had 2-3 customers that used
that gas regularly (93) in their twin turbo RX-7's and broke apex seals at
very low milages. Maybe they're using a bad/no additive package, old gas,
gas contaminated with diesel fuel? Maybe they just pump 87 thought all the
pumps? It's suposed to be checked but I'm sure that can be "worked around"
just like building inspectors etc. QT's is cheaper than anyone else's and
it runs like it is!
Back in the mid 80's BP gas was known around here for building heavy valve
carbon but I think they straightened that out. Had to take a bunch of
engines apart because of this (cold running and idle problems) and
everytime the customer had a BP credit card!
Yes gas all comes through "a pipe" but the separate it with "pigs" to keep
the octane grades separated and diesel out of the gas out of the jet fuel
etc. Given Amoco is clear and the others are yellow tells me something is
different... Some people would like to believe the cheapest gas you can
find is the same as quality gas, but these are the same people who believe
pep boys parts are the same as the dealers...
See:
http://www.post-gazette.com/transportation/20040104gratacoltrans2p2.asp
http://www.pipeline101.com/Operating/batching.html
So just because they come through the same pipe and maybe even from the same
refinery, doesn't mean it's all the same. Gasoline is a complex mix of
different hydrocarbons and some are harder to refine and there are less of
them than others. Supply and demand determines the costs of these parts of
the mixture. Heptane is cheap, isooctane isn't. It's not like alcohol based
fuels where you are basically using all of the same molecule, not a mixture
of different ones. One brand may make their 93 gas meet the standard with
extra additives rather than using more isooctane in the mix? Hard to know
what they are doing...
http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/com/Room/Public+Reference/Commodity-Info/Gasoline.htm
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa070401a.htm
This is one reason racers like using alcohol based fuels, if it's allowed,
because it's -always- the same (methanol is methanol and is just one type
of molecule), doesn't break down and is forgiving to tune with but that's
another topic...
Bottom line, you have to decide which seems to run best to you in your car
and if you're willing to pay what they want for it.
--
Steve
Brian Bergin
If your car doesn't need the additives then buy Amoco/BP. Those of you who
don't like BP need to understand that BP stations in the US (don't know about
the rest of the world) now sell Amoco's US formula which doesn't have a ton of
junk added to it.
Thanks...
Brian Bergin
I can be reached via e-mail at
cisco_dot_news_at_comcept_dot_net.
Please post replies to the group so all may benefit.
Tim Keebortz
Speedway)
From what I've been told by the people at Ashland Oil is that they sell
to everyone, and they buy from everyone as well. The CFO from Ashland
Oil basically told me that gas is gas, if BP is in Cincinnati and the
closest refinery is in Ashland KY they're going to buy from Ashland Oil
in Ashland KY and not have gas shipping in from Florida or wherever
there refinery may be. Think about it, why truck gas all over the
country when you can buy from the local refinery and save on shipping
cost and increase your profit margin.. it only makes financial sense.
So basically, again.. from my understanding... your gas is only as good
as the local refinery.
y_p_w
> Crunchy Cookie wrote:
>
> > Yes, another import newsgroup cross-post.
> > Anyway, does anyone have opinions on the quality of gas from different
> > stations? It always surprises me to hear people say things like "my 240SX
> > runs way smoother on premium Chevron Techron" or "Arco gas totally screws
> > up my Tercel's
> > mileage." Don't most companies pump gas from the same refineries, and
> > simply
> > add their own, mostly ineffective, additives? Rumor has it that Shell's
> > is tops and Arco's is bottom.
>
> I haven't found -much- difference in pump gas other than around here a place
> called "quick trip" gas. That stuff is awful. Their 93 makes my old
> Mitsubishi truck with 8.8:1 comp ping. We've had 2-3 customers that used
> that gas regularly (93) in their twin turbo RX-7's and broke apex seals at
> very low milages. Maybe they're using a bad/no additive package, old gas,
> gas contaminated with diesel fuel? Maybe they just pump 87 thought all the
> pumps? It's suposed to be checked but I'm sure that can be "worked around"
> just like building inspectors etc. QT's is cheaper than anyone else's and
> it runs like it is!
How about water contamination?
> Back in the mid 80's BP gas was known around here for building heavy valve
> carbon but I think they straightened that out. Had to take a bunch of
> engines apart because of this (cold running and idle problems) and
> everytime the customer had a BP credit card!
Well - I remember when I was purchasing BP gas in the mid-90's, BP
had no refinery in California (they do now). At the time I believe
they only had one US refinery. I doubt they would have done large
scale production of California Phase-II reformulated gas and shipped
it all the way from their refinery in Louisiana to their gas stations
in California. The local BP stations likely just bought their fuel
from one of the major producers (might have even been some sort of
contract).
> Yes gas all comes through "a pipe" but the separate it with "pigs" to keep
> the octane grades separated and diesel out of the gas out of the jet fuel
> etc. Given Amoco is clear and the others are yellow tells me something is
> different... Some people would like to believe the cheapest gas you can
> find is the same as quality gas, but these are the same people who believe
> pep boys parts are the same as the dealers...
Depends on the part. If it's an OEM spark plug from Bosch, NGK, Denso,
ACDelco, or Motorcraft, then yeah it's the same as the dealer part, but
that's probably it.
> So just because they come through the same pipe and maybe even from the same
> refinery, doesn't mean it's all the same. Gasoline is a complex mix of
> different hydrocarbons and some are harder to refine and there are less of
> them than others. Supply and demand determines the costs of these parts of
> the mixture. Heptane is cheap, isooctane isn't. It's not like alcohol based
> fuels where you are basically using all of the same molecule, not a mixture
> of different ones. One brand may make their 93 gas meet the standard with
> extra additives rather than using more isooctane in the mix? Hard to know
> what they are doing...
At least they're not doing it with lead any more.
> Bottom line, you have to decide which seems to run best to you in your car
> and if you're willing to pay what they want for it.
Honestly - I tend to either purchase locally from Shell or Chevron
stations. They operate refineries in my area, so more often than
not, they're going to be making the fuel coming out of their branded
pumps. I'm also wary of the tank maintenance practices at some of
the off-brand gas stations. Then I add a little Redline SI-1 just
in case.
MRK
David Rennick
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Du80c.2007$PR3.30461@attbi_s03...
Steve T
> Dumbest post of the year.
>
>
Actually I thought your coment "what about the harmonic balancer?" in
responce to the question "How is the best way to keep the chain tensioner
in place" was dumber.. :-)
Steve
Stromm Sarnac
to this day.
Buy the same gas that was originally used when the car came off the
line and got it's first 500 miles.
I know all the scientific reasons why this shouldn't matter. You
don't have to tell me.
But, I know for a fact that when I have purchased a car and through
trial and error found the best brand for best milage, I've always been
able to track back and find that same brand was used by the original
owner/dealer/etc.
Examples. I had 2 Buicks 10 years apart. The first ran best on
Sunoco. The second ran like crap on it, but great on BP (which the
first ran like crap on). Turns out the dealer changed supplier from
Sunoco to BP. My 94' ImpalaSS gets 8-12mpg better with Shell than with
any other gas. Especially Marathon which only gives me about 7mpg. My
old 1980 Cutlass ran best on SOHio (BP) until I replaced it's engine
with a used Old's 350 Rocket which ran best on Shell.
Trial and error. Make sure you run the tank almost empty and put at
least 3 tank fulls in for comparison before switching brands.
Also, don't forget that some station's tanks are cleaner and refreshed
more often so their gas may yield better results. I stay away from the
station not 1 mile from my house and drive 8 because I get 3mpg (23gal
tank) more from them.
MRK
news:MPG.1ab1b643e...@news.individual.net:
Yes but 76 does not come from Arab countries. I only use that gas