At what point does a car become not worth keeping?
Crunchy Cookie
thought the best used-car deals were ones between, oh, 2 and 8 years old. If
it's too new, you might as well buy new, but if it's too old, you're just asking
for trouble, right? What's the average (range of) mileage where cars start
konking out to a higher expense than their value? Most people seem to casually
say between 100K and 200K; most consider 200K to be a long life. The engine and
transmission rebuilds are the only really huge items, right? How much does
rebuilding those cost? Anything else to watch out for?
And is it me, or do Japanese car alternators die really easily?
Brian Bergin
Don't know about anyone else, but my wife and I had an '84 Honda Civic that had
262k on it when we sold it to a friend in 1997 and the only major non-scheduled
work it had done on it was a clutch at 250k (that replaced the original clutch
that came in it when my wife's Dad bought it new in '84). The alternator did
go, but that was after she and I had it out in the floods caused by a hurricane
and it shorted out. We know the current owners and at 20 years old it has over
400k on it and still runs great. My thoughts:
Change the oil
Change the trans fluid
Change the filters (oil, air, fuel, etc...)
Change the spark plugs (& wires when needed)
Change the timing belt
Change the radiator fluid
& drive it right and it will last a long time.
The problem with any used car that you don't know and trust the previous owner
is you have no idea how it was driven. Even "certified" used cars cannot have
everything inspected. They cannot be removing the transmission to see what it
looks like and I doubt they even do compression tests, though I'm willing to be
corrected on that. Buy from a reputable dealer who will backup the sale with
service and I'm guessing your ok.
As for that '84 Honda, it's worth about $20 (based on the gas in the tank), but
it's A/C works and it still gets 35mpg. How'd have thought 20 years ago that in
2004 that car would still be running!
Current cars: '04 Xterra XE V6 w/ 1,060 miles on it
'97 Outback Sport w/ 106k on it - still running great and driven
60 miles/day up and down a 2000' elevation to and from work.
Just my thoughts...
Thanks...
Brian Bergin
I can be reached via e-mail at
cisco_dot_news_at_comcept_dot_net.
Please post replies to the group so all may benefit.
FearTurtle 2
to keep my cars 7-10 years. Usually after that the car starts nickel and
diming the owner to death. With the price of cars, you have to keep them
that long because who can pay for a new car every 2-4 years.
If you can work on cars, then minor problems can be fixed rather easily and
keep the car on the road.
Kevin
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YhO_b.391899$xy6.2203355@attbi_s02...
Peter Hill
wrote:
For me it's not a question of is it worth keeping but what can I
replace it with?
Requirements.
1: sleek 3 door fastback coupe. To prevent argument over term 'sleek'
the overall height + height of bonnet - height of wheel arch (both in
line with front wheel axle) must be less than 1.45m (57in).
2: 0-60mph less than 7.5 sec.
3: be able to get a 26in frame racing bicycle in the back without
having to take the front wheel out. (will go in Micra/March if you
take wheel off)
4: 2+2 with ample rear leg room for adults for short trips. Unlike my
neighbours Jag XK8, his daughter has to take the train.
5: Light weight - kerb less than 1250Kg (2755lbs)
Current car
1: total 55.8in
2: 7 sec (6.9 on some quotes)
3: Yes x 2
4: Have had self, 19 year old Nephew (large), Sister in Law (large),
15 year old Niece and 10 year old Niece in car - with complaints about
rear headroom in center on hump.
5: quoted at 1170Kg.
If I wanted to be really demanding I could throw in RWD.
--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!
Joseph Oberlander
> Requirements.
> 1: sleek 3 door fastback coupe. To prevent argument over term 'sleek'
> the overall height + height of bonnet - height of wheel arch (both in
> line with front wheel axle) must be less than 1.45m (57in).
> 2: 0-60mph less than 7.5 sec.
> 3: be able to get a 26in frame racing bicycle in the back without
> having to take the front wheel out. (will go in Micra/March if you
> take wheel off)
> 4: 2+2 with ample rear leg room for adults for short trips. Unlike my
> neighbours Jag XK8, his daughter has to take the train.
> 5: Light weight - kerb less than 1250Kg (2755lbs)
Sounds a lot like a Matrix. :)
> If I wanted to be really demanding I could throw in RWD.
Tricky :) I also have no love for FWD.
Joseph Oberlander
Crunchy Cookie wrote:
> I thought I'd get a little cost/benefit analysis discussion going. I've always
> thought the best used-car deals were ones between, oh, 2 and 8 years old. If
> it's too new, you might as well buy new, but if it's too old, you're just asking
> for trouble, right?
That's true for most cars. Some are better, though, and you can double
that estimate. I'd have no problems buying a 15 year old Merdedes 500
series sedan, for instance.
> What's the average (range of) mileage where cars start
> konking out to a higher expense than their value? Most people seem to casually
> say between 100K and 200K;
Don't know. GM engines tend to last about 150-200K miles before a
rebuild is required.(roughly 12-15 years) My Volvos both had over 200K
on them and ran perfectly well when I got rid of them.
My dad's old 1979 Olds Cutlass is still trudging around Pasadena last
I heard. It's cheaper to keep a car running than get a new one in
almost every instance, so few cars actually "wear out" - the owner just
gets really tired of it. :)
> The engine and transmission rebuilds are the only really huge
> items, right?
Pretty much. First off, get a manual transmission. You can
get 3-4 clutch jobs for what an antomatic will cost you,
plus you can push-start the car to get it to the mechanics
AND you can technically use it without any clutch at all
if you know the gear ratios and rpms they line up at.
An automatic just dies. Then it's a rock that needs to be
towed for a $1600+ repair. The "auto-sticks" and other
nonsense aren't manuals either - what you need is something
with a clutch pedal.
> How much does
> rebuilding those cost?
I know of a place that will rebuild a GM engine for roughly
$1500-$1800 to work like new. All new sensors, modules,
rings, gaskets - the works.
That's the least expensive quality place that I know of in
S. California. Most places charge a lot more than that,
so if you can get a good engine/transmission combo, the
car will last longer than you will :)
Stephen Bigelow
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FaR_b.8292$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
> Crunchy Cookie wrote:
>
> > I thought I'd get a little cost/benefit analysis discussion going. I've
always
> > thought the best used-car deals were ones between, oh, 2 and 8 years
old. If
> > it's too new, you might as well buy new, but if it's too old, you're
just asking
> > for trouble, right?
>
> That's true for most cars. Some are better, though, and you can double
> that estimate. I'd have no problems buying a 15 year old Merdedes 500
> series sedan, for instance.
Oh yeah. As long as the cams are already done, right?
Richard Tomkins
I bought it used. It had been banged and repaired and right now the bottom
of the door is rusting. I have decided to fix it and keep it another two
years.
I love the drive and reliability. I have had to do some work, fuel
injectors, battery, discs and calipers, and exhaust. Instead of replacing
the front pipe I had a place replace and weld the flex pipe, it cost $500
and that was 4 years ago, so I am ahead on the game on that repair. The rear
muffler is making noise so I suspect I'll need that and a pipe later this
month.
I kept my For Tempo GLS, bought brand new till 200K. It was feeling tired
from around 140K onwards, so at 200K I figured that it was toast, the floor
had rusted out.
I go for regular oil changes and the tranny stuff as well.
I think as long as the body is good and can be kept looking good and the car
is pleasing to drive, keep it, unless you hanker form soemthing new. I know
I want something newer but it's not in my economic future right now so I'll
have to be content with what I have. I always wanted BMW and I can get an
1991 850 i for $25k right now. It has a 150,000KM on it so and a V12 must
have lots of accelleration to have fun with. A 1999 750iL for $33K with
110,000KM. A 1985 Maserati BiTurbo for $5K, that would be a hell of ride.
I don't know, I think there is no ROI with cars, just a love for what you
want.
lcopps
of payments in some cases. However, I gave up my 16 year Accord because
it was becomming a safty concern. You also have to factor in if the
lifestyle improvement would be worth the price.
Dave Garrett
says...
> I think as long as the body is good and can be kept looking good and the car
> is pleasing to drive, keep it, unless you hanker form soemthing new. I know
> I want something newer but it's not in my economic future right now so I'll
> have to be content with what I have. I always wanted BMW and I can get an
> 1991 850 i for $25k right now. It has a 150,000KM on it so and a V12 must
> have lots of accelleration to have fun with. A 1999 750iL for $33K with
> 110,000KM. A 1985 Maserati BiTurbo for $5K, that would be a hell of ride.
There's a very good reason why Biturbos are so cheap. They're
notoriously unreliable even by Italian standards, and I say that as
someone whose daily driver used to be an Alfa GTV6. Even better, they're
a major pain in the ass to work on - the guy that used to work on my
Alfa was one of the best Italian-car mechanics in the city, and he would
curse when a Biturbo came into the shop, even though it would almost
invariably mean that the owner was about to drop a big wad of cash. But
they do go like stink when they're running properly.
Dave
Timothy J. Lee
Crunchy Cookie <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>I thought I'd get a little cost/benefit analysis discussion going. I've always
>thought the best used-car deals were ones between, oh, 2 and 8 years old. If
>it's too new, you might as well buy new, but if it's too old, you're just asking
>for trouble, right? What's the average (range of) mileage where cars start
>konking out to a higher expense than their value?
It depends greatly on how well taken care of the car has been. Someone
who does scheduled maintenance can get reliable service for decades and
many hundreds of thousands of miles out of a car. Someone who does not
do scheduled maintenance is probably lucky to get one hundred thousand
miles.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Joseph Oberlander
Stephen Bigelow wrote:
> Oh yeah. As long as the cams are already done, right?
That's a cinch to check.
Phillip Weston
I have an '89 Mitsubishi Galant GLX with a 1.8L motor here in New
Zealand. My Galant has 371,000 on the clock. I've just finished
reconditioning the head, and replacing the head gasket. That should
last me another 200,000 or so. As long as you service them well, they
should last for a long time.
Bob W.
original clutch replaced around 250,000mi. At the same time I had the
tech replace both axles to be safe. The original alternator died soon
after the clutch replacement. I replaced that myself as well as a
couple of water pumps and a couple of brake jobs. Other than that it
was pretty much normal maintanence. The only reason why I got rid of
the car was because of serious rusting. So serious the structure was
rotted out and became unsafe. If it wasn't for all the rust I
probably could have gone to 400,000. It rotted out so fast I couldn't
keep up with the rot. The engine was still strong and burned very
little to no oil between oil changes. The transmission seemed to be
tight still too. It's apparently how you maintain it that will make
it last.
"Stephen Bigelow" <sbige...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<axR_b.6239$Qg7....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
Crunchy Cookie
news:aFR_b.8309$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> 1.
> Here's an interesting way to help decide when to buy a new car: Put together a
> spreadsheet for your car's costs. Every month, record the dollars you pay for
> car parts, car repairs, and car maintenance. Maintain a running total of $
paid
> in another column. The running total must include the initial purchase price
of
> the car. Every month, divide the *total* you have paid for the car and its
care
> (over its lifetime) by the total months you have driven it. You may also
compute
> the $/mile, too. Initially, the dollars/month is very high, because the
initial
> cost of the car dominates. But then naturally the $/month immediately declines
> for at least several years, as the initial cost is naturally "amortized" over
> the car's life. Also the costs of parts, repairs, and maintenance in the early
> years are minimal. Eventually, the $/month will flatten or even start to rise.
> This is about when you know you should start shopping for a new car. Of
course,
> if you get sick of running the car to the shop all the time, this is another
> good reason to get rid of the old car. If you have poor records, you could
still
> start the calculation today. The cost still should be declining every month,
or
> else you're due for a new car. (This approach is courtesy of a senior citizen
> acquaintance of mine. I'm still mulling over its usefulness given the time it
> takes, but so far it seems sound.)
>
> 2.
> I disagree with your statement that one might as well buy a new car if one is
> considering a fairly new used car. Car's depreciate very quickly (like the
> instant you drive it off the lot, to use a hackneyed phrase). If one is not
> going to keep the car for at least about ten years, he more economic choice
> between a new car and a recently manufactured used car is the used car. If one
> is going to keep the car for over ten years, buy new, so you know the car's
> history well. If one is going to keep a car ten years or more, the difference
in
> price between new and used tends to be trivial.
Right. I like to switch every few years, which is why I was asking the normal
lifespans of auto transmissions and engines, as well as how much rebuilds cost,
and if there are any other huge common expenses besides those two items. My
casual policy is to buy a 4-year old car, use it for 4 years, and sell at 8
years. For someone who only drives a car 4 years, that instinctively strikes me
as the best bang for the buck point, considering the risk of having the
engine/tranny die while it's in MY driveway.
I guess my question should've been: what's the oldest car that's still a safe
bet?
> 3.
> Certain Toyota and Honda models that are properly maintained will easily go
over
> 200k miles and ten years in many climates. Other manufacturers' cars are now
> lasting this long, but Toyota and Honda are still ahead of them, from what
I've
> read.
Sometimes I wonder how much of a myth that is. From all the reliability reports
I've been staring at over the past ten years, almost ALL Japanese cars that are
handled from concept, through design, to assembly 100% by its parent (with no
Ford or Chrysler intervension) are equally reliable. Aren't there thousands of
people whose Miatas, Proteges, Mirages, and Maximas last as long as you guys'
apparently numerous 300K Accords? Consumer Reports data supports this, as there
are only 6 models of the recent past that didn't achieve consistently
above-average reliability. Their names are Mazda 626, Mazda MX-6, Mitsubishi
Galant, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Nissan Quest, Isuzu Rodeo.
My friend swears Nissans are crappier than Hondas or Toyotas, with their fuel
injectors dying a guaranteed death at some point shortly after 100K. Don't know
whether to believe him. (As a 95 200SX SE-R owner about to cross 100K, I don't
want to.)
> 4.
> As another poster said, a lot of the cost analysis depends on how much work
you
> do on the car yourself. Also, if one does a lot of one's own car repairs, I
> think the spreadsheet approach above isn't very useful. My senior citizen
friend
> said I could consider converting my hours of car labor to $ and run the
numbers
> this way. This is an idea, but I also think it's pretty obvious when one who
> does one's own maintenance is having to do more than they want.
>
> 5.
> I'm on my second alternator for my 1991 Honda Civic, 150k miles, bought new. I
> think the first died around 106k miles and 8 years, with mostly Northern
climate
> driving (which I think wears the battery and thus charging system more). Maybe
> check Consumer Reports April car issue for whether electrical problems are
worse
> on Japanese cars. But I'm almost positive they're no worse on Honda and Toyota
> than on other makes of cars, as it would be something I'd have noticed in my
car
> buying studies by now.
Richard Smith
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
My $.02...
My 1984 Mazda 626, made in Japan...sold at 196,000mi in 1996...AC was gone
and the exhaust manifold had a hole somewhere. Engine was fine, 5spd was
still original. New waterpump, new alternator, boots a couple of times, and
the gas tank rotted out under the rear seat.
1983 Nissan Sentra, made in Japan...sold at 138,000 mi in 1983...ac perfect,
engine perfect, tranny shot...lost 5th gear, ran fine in 1-4, door handle
broke off (exterior). Plastic parts on this car seemed to rot.
Current ride: 1990 Protege SOHC (yes Virginia, not DOHC), currently 206,000
mi, original motor and tranny/clutch. AC replaced last summer, and of
course the famous rotting plastic radiators keep cracking. CV joints a
couple of times, alternator once, water pump once (165Kmi & 132Kmi). This
was also made in Japan. My only problem now is the platinum plugs seemed to
be seized. Ooops.
Regards,
Richard
My '76 Chevette was dependable up to around 70,000 then everything
broke...sold it at 132,000 with only the engine and 3spd auto still working.
Netsock
news:t7ednaf8xL6...@giganews.com...
[snip]
> 1983 Nissan Sentra, made in Japan...sold at 138,000 mi in 1983...ac
perfect,
> engine perfect, tranny shot...lost 5th gear, ran fine in 1-4, door handle
> broke off (exterior). Plastic parts on this car seemed to rot.
[snip]
Wow!
138k miles in less that a year...now that's something! :)
--
-Netsock
"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
Horseman
>
> My '76 Chevette was dependable up to around 70,000 then everything
> broke...sold it at 132,000 with only the engine and 3spd auto still working.
That sounds exactly like my father's '94 Pontiac Grand Prix. Engine and
tranny were fine (surprisingly), but seemingly everything else had problems,
especially the alternator. The car was on its 4th alternator when he got
rid of it last summer at a mere 146,000km (91,000 miles). He now drives a
2004 Toyota Corolla.
I drive a Japan-built '93 Honda Accord automatic that now has 211,000km
(131,000 miles) on it. The only unusual issues I have had with it were a
shot fan blower motor and a defective distributor bearing. Other than that,
just regular maintenance. It's been a great car. Engine and tranny run
like new, and everything works.
Crunchy Cookie
>
> My 1984 Mazda 626, made in Japan...sold at 196,000mi in 1996...AC was gone
> and the exhaust manifold had a hole somewhere. Engine was fine, 5spd was
> still original. New waterpump, new alternator, boots a couple of times, and
> the gas tank rotted out under the rear seat.
>
> 1983 Nissan Sentra, made in Japan...sold at 138,000 mi in 1983...ac perfect,
> engine perfect, tranny shot...lost 5th gear, ran fine in 1-4, door handle
> broke off (exterior). Plastic parts on this car seemed to rot.
>
> Current ride: 1990 Protege SOHC (yes Virginia, not DOHC), currently 206,000
> mi, original motor and tranny/clutch. AC replaced last summer, and of
> course the famous rotting plastic radiators keep cracking. CV joints a
> couple of times, alternator once, water pump once (165Kmi & 132Kmi). This
> was also made in Japan. My only problem now is the platinum plugs seemed to
> be seized. Ooops.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard
This is all very encouraging.
> My '76 Chevette was dependable up to around 70,000 then everything
> broke...sold it at 132,000 with only the engine and 3spd auto still working.
Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?
Jon Dalton
allowed to rust out. I checked out an -81 Tercel with 800,000 miles, the
original engine worked fine. In my estimation, by the time a Toyota is old
enough that its depreciation curve is flat, the repairs are not expensive
enough to justify buying a different car. Then again, I don't spend much on
repairs because I do them myself. I'm more motivated by non-economic
factors, they simply don't make any cars that I like better than the one
that I already have. The way the used car marked is going these days, I'd
say a used car for $5000 is the best way to spend money. It's undergone
most of its depreciation at that point, yet for that amount you can get a
car that has been well maintained and has no rust.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YhO_b.391899$xy6.2203355@attbi_s02...
Joseph Oberlander
Crunchy Cookie wrote:
> Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
> average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?
100K is typical for even the worst budget cars.
150-200K is typical for domestics.
200-250K is typical for imports.
300K+ for a few like Volvo 240s and a few other specific vehicles.
Btw - the highet mileage car to date is a Volvo P1800. Over
1 million miles on the original engine.
Joseph Oberlander
Jon Dalton wrote:
> With Toyota, 20 years or 400,000 kilometers is normal, unless the body is
> allowed to rust out. I checked out an -81 Tercel with 800,000 miles, the
> original engine worked fine.
Wow. Buy that car. You could get a ton of money from the factory
or a mention or something if it hits 1 million miles. IIRC, only
a dozen or so cars have ever hit 1 million miles, and 800K is very
close.
Scott in Florida
<groov...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>With Toyota, 20 years or 400,000 kilometers is normal, unless the body is
>allowed to rust out. I checked out an -81 Tercel with 800,000 miles, the
>original engine worked fine. In my estimation, by the time a Toyota is old
>enough that its depreciation curve is flat, the repairs are not expensive
>enough to justify buying a different car. Then again, I don't spend much on
>repairs because I do them myself. I'm more motivated by non-economic
>factors, they simply don't make any cars that I like better than the one
>that I already have. The way the used car marked is going these days, I'd
>say a used car for $5000 is the best way to spend money. It's undergone
>most of its depreciation at that point, yet for that amount you can get a
>car that has been well maintained and has no rust.
>
I agree. My '92 Corolla Wagon suits my needs just fine. They don't
make wagons anymore that are to my liking.
My needs are a small 'office on the road' that will haul my kayak
anywhere I want to explore.
Works great.
I like it.
I'm gonna keep it...<g>.
btw it 'only' has 160,000 miles on the clock...
Scott in Florida
Richard Smith
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
I would concur with Joseph's reply- I had a '92 Plymouth Grand Caravan that
I sold last year with 152,000 mi on it- 3.3l with the infamous 4spd auto.
The engine and tranny were fine but...
waterpump at 75Kmi, AC system at 80Kmi-total replacement, the friggin rack
blew it's seals at 100Kmi (that's just plain bad QA from the
supplier)...interior headliner was coming unglued from the windshield back,
the auto lock in the side doors was wiggy and would lock/unlock whenever you
hit a bump, and any hard turns resulted in the doors locking and the little
warning chime going off.
Turn on the lights and the toilet flushes....
However it did a nice job negotiating Colorado logging roads such at one
point it looked like a Range Rover commercial with all the wheels canted in
different directions and at one low point scraped the front air dam and the
rear bumper at the same time.
>
Richard Smith
"Netsock" <net...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:c1j1hq$t4g$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...
Damn betcha!!
Ooops, shoulda been 1993.
That car would get better than 40mpg at 60 mph. Sigh.
Now I only get 35mpg @ 70mph with my Protege. Darn.
(Ya'll keep driving the SUVs to sponsor oil exploration, thank you! :-) ).
>
Im anonymous
Of course! You see lots of domestics with 100,000 or more. I can
think of *many* vehicles owned by myself and my brother and parents
that had over 100K before it was sold. I'm done buying domestics for
the time being, however.
Caroline
Do manual transmissions last longer than auto transmissions?
Does anyone know of a Japanese car with an auto transmission that went over 250k
on the original engine and original auto transmission?
AMG
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YhO_b.391899$xy6.2203355@attbi_s02...
> I thought I'd get a little cost/benefit analysis discussion going. I've
always
> thought the best used-car deals were ones between, oh, 2 and 8 years old.
If
> it's too new, you might as well buy new, but if it's too old, you're just
asking
> for trouble, right? What's the average (range of) mileage where cars
start
> konking out to a higher expense than their value? Most people seem to
casually
> say between 100K and 200K; most consider 200K to be a long life. The
engine and
> transmission rebuilds are the only really huge items, right? How much
does
> rebuilding those cost? Anything else to watch out for?
> And is it me, or do Japanese car alternators die really easily?
>
For me the math is simple:
A car's time is up at the point at which the cost of maintaining/repairing
the old car approaches (or exceeds) the cost of owning a new car OR the
point at which the effort of maintaining the old car (lack of reliability
etc.) exceed the value of my time.
What mileage/age is that? Depends! I've got a bike that's 25yrs old, whose
value is now increasing, easy to maintain, fun to ride (moreso than a new
one - in a retro kind of way...). But I've also got a 10 year old car that
lacks the safety/reliability factors of a newer car which I am in the
process of replacing it with. Plus the older car is starting to need
substantial work (clutch, etc.). There's no magic number, or as Indiana
Jones said "it's not the year it's the mileage". Some folks kill a car in 5
years, some never do.
Peter Hill
wrote:
>
>
>"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:YhO_b.391899$xy6.2203355@attbi_s02...
>> I thought I'd get a little cost/benefit analysis discussion going. I've
>always
>> thought the best used-car deals were ones between, oh, 2 and 8 years old.
>If
>> it's too new, you might as well buy new, but if it's too old, you're just
>asking
>> for trouble, right? What's the average (range of) mileage where cars
>start
>> konking out to a higher expense than their value? Most people seem to
>casually
>> say between 100K and 200K; most consider 200K to be a long life. The
>engine and
>> transmission rebuilds are the only really huge items, right? How much
>does
>> rebuilding those cost? Anything else to watch out for?
>> And is it me, or do Japanese car alternators die really easily?
It's you.
>For me the math is simple:
>
>A car's time is up at the point at which the cost of maintaining/repairing
>the old car approaches (or exceeds) the cost of owning a new car OR the
>point at which the effort of maintaining the old car (lack of reliability
>etc.) exceed the value of my time.
>
>What mileage/age is that? Depends! I've got a bike that's 25yrs old, whose
>value is now increasing, easy to maintain, fun to ride (moreso than a new
>one - in a retro kind of way...). But I've also got a 10 year old car that
>lacks the safety/reliability factors of a newer car which I am in the
>process of replacing it with. Plus the older car is starting to need
>substantial work (clutch, etc.). There's no magic number, or as Indiana
>Jones said "it's not the year it's the mileage". Some folks kill a car in 5
>years, some never do.
On cars with FWD by the time a clutch needs replacing, the high cost
due to the need the split the front suspensions and remove drive
shafts can easily exceed the value of the car. eg plate £50 labour
£350, you have to know enough to search around for someone working
from a lockup or railway arch who will do it for £200 all in and not a
franchise chain or a main dealer (VW golf £800). DIY it's a pig of a
job.
A cam belt change on some FWD V6 engines like Fiat and Vauxhall can
also be very expensive. £1000 is quoted on one Fiat unless you can
find someone who can do it without taking the engine out. If they
don't have a receipt it hasn't been done.
Peter Hill
It's only got to carry on going for the whole life of most other cars.
Peter Hill
That's the difference between Japanese and the rest. Japanese
electrical systems keep going on and on, the rest don't. Every Ford
in the breakers yards round here has no steering column controls, they
all die at about 6-8 years old, one breaker has taken to stocking
pattern ones as he can't get good second hand ones. Cheap Bosch
electrics made down to a price for French cars die regularly - it's so
common there are firms making pattern ignition modules. I have heard
of a 7 series BMW that was up for sale for peanuts, the electrically
adjusted drivers seat had failed, cost £3000 and due to production
demand back order at factory was over 1 year, the owner wasn't going
to wait. If you didn't fit it how it was set it would be useless.
Peter Hill
<mrpcha...@texas.net> wrote:
>Current ride: 1990 Protege SOHC (yes Virginia, not DOHC), currently 206,000
>mi, original motor and tranny/clutch. AC replaced last summer, and of
>course the famous rotting plastic radiators keep cracking. CV joints a
>couple of times, alternator once, water pump once (165Kmi & 132Kmi). This
>was also made in Japan. My only problem now is the platinum plugs seemed to
>be seized. Ooops.
You are supposed to take them out once a year and look at them.
do...@atxwhatxpo.usenet.us.com
> That's the difference between Japanese and the rest. Japanese
> electrical systems keep going on and on, the rest don't. Every Ford
> in the breakers yards round here has no steering column controls, they
My 88 Dodge Dakota has 288,000 miles on it. Tough miles as an oveloaded
ranch truck carrying a cabover camper and pulling a horse trailer. I've
had to replace the A/C compressor, and I replaced the starter when it
probably only needed brushes, but I was in a hurry. Lots of trips for this
truck never left the yard at the ranch, so I might have had 20 engine
starts in a 10 mile span.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
Joseph Oberlander
Caroline wrote:
Manuals can last longer because you have control over how you
abuse it. They also cost less to replace/repair, let you
drive the car instead of it driving you, get better mileage,
and can technically be used with a completely dead clutch
to limp to a garage.
Automatics are the exact opposite. Money pits that just
save you a tiny bit of effort. A manual transmission
mated to a non-turbo inline 4 engine is probably the most
reliable combination you can buy. Something like a Corolla
or Camry with a manual transmission.
I personally wouldn't buy a car with 80-120K on it and the
original automatic transmission. But a clutch? Simple to
fix if it need to - or I can be easy on it and get a year
or two out of it. My record is 2 years on a nearly dead
clutch before I finally decided to replace it.
My automatic in my old beater Buick? Gave me 1/2 mile warning
before it stopped working and had to be towed.
Joseph Oberlander
Peter Hill wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:31:57 -0600, "Richard Smith"
> <mrpcha...@texas.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Current ride: 1990 Protege SOHC (yes Virginia, not DOHC), currently 206,000
>>mi, original motor and tranny/clutch. AC replaced last summer, and of
>>course the famous rotting plastic radiators keep cracking. CV joints a
>>couple of times, alternator once, water pump once (165Kmi & 132Kmi). This
>>was also made in Japan. My only problem now is the platinum plugs seemed to
>>be seized. Ooops.
>
>
> You are supposed to take them out once a year and look at them.
At $35 for plugs and new wires for my V-6 engine, I swap plugs($12
for a full set) every year and wires every two years.
Plus, it's actually fun and simple to swap plugs if your engine isn't
crammed in there like the Audi A4(worst design I've seen so far).
If it's something like a typical inline-4 or inline-6, 5 minutes
tops.
Joseph Oberlander
do...@AtXwhatXpo.usenet.us.com wrote:
Heh. I see a pattern here. Old versus newer. The older designs were
built to last as they didn't have computer models to determine longevity
and so they overbuilt a bit.
A new Dakota - plastic and flim-flam everywhere. Horrendous amounts
of things that break by comparison.
do...@atxwhatxpo.usenet.us.com
> Heh. I see a pattern here. Old versus newer. The older designs were
> built to last as they didn't have computer models to determine longevity
> and so they overbuilt a bit.
The same will be said of the newer car when it gets older.
My 96 Mustang had 125,000 miles on it. One bad A/C bearing and a cracked
intake manifold at 105,000. I sold it before the parts fell off, I guess.
My 2000 Durango has 80,000 miles on it. No problems. When is the plastic
supposed to fall off of that one?
If it is old enough to establish longevity, it's too old to count?
Nirodac
and it will last indefinitely. Abuse it, and it will not last much past
it's warranty. I have a 75 Dodge truck , that is worth more now, than when
it was new. It's been well maintained and parked out of the weather,
original auto tranie, engine, diff etc (98 % original from factory). I have
a 77 Merc XR7 (bought it in 82) that is in excellent running condition,
256,000Km, body was neglected. Now it's toast. All because I didn't take
care of the body (only the running gear) we need to replace it. Replaced
with a 03 Eclipse, lets see if it'll last 25 plus years.
All the vehicles that my wife and I have owned, over our combined 55 years
of driving, cost less than half, what we bought the Eclipse for.
Maintenance cost for that time would be less than $5,000. That comes from
buying good used cars, and being a self maintainer.
My only lemon was my first car (English) all the rest have been Detroit
iron, (well, except the new Eclipse) and even that one was assembled in the
US of A.
Life is, what you make of it.
Nirodac
"Peter Hill" <peter....@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j5fs30lggtktpjtt6...@4ax.com...
Daniel
performed in 2003 revealed the average cost of maintenance for passenger
vehicules is :
age of car
1 $200
2 $350
3 $500
4 $800
5 to12: $1100 per year
Survey respondants claimed driving an average of 19k km per year, or app
12k milles. (I am sure most respondants dont keep a detailed history of
repair costs. So let's add a couple of hundred dollars to the age 5 -12
figure.)
In the last 12 months, I spent $1400 on my 1998 Max. I drove 22k km. It now
has 103k km on the odometer.
In my estimation, the economical break point for owning a vehicule is when
it reaches 7-8 years old. At that point, the average yearly total cost of
depreciation, repairs and capital cost is at minimum. Beyond 8 years, the
average yearly cost does not get any significantly lower. As a matter of
fact, you increase the risk of being stranded, car downtime, time lost while
at shops, and loss of income if you depend on the car for such. The most
economical strategy is to buy a used car between 2 and 5 years old and keep
untill it reaches 7 or 8 years of age. A made myself a rule of thumb to
seriously consider getting rid of the car if the last 12 months actual costs
or next 12 months forecast exceeds $1500. But often emotions get in the way.
Or life has other plans.
Dan, Montreal
dizzy
<josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> You are supposed to take them out once a year and look at them.
>
>At $35 for plugs and new wires for my V-6 engine, I swap plugs($12
>for a full set) every year and wires every two years.
>
>Plus, it's actually fun and simple to swap plugs if your engine isn't
>crammed in there like the Audi A4(worst design I've seen so far).
>
>If it's something like a typical inline-4 or inline-6, 5 minutes
>tops.
Maybe a bit longer if you have coils over the plugs... 8)
Horseman
engine and auto tranny never needed a rebuild. It was still running great
when he ditched it a few years ago (due to excessive rust).
Scott in Florida
>A national CAA survey (equivalent to the AAA) among 20000 respondants
>performed in 2003 revealed the average cost of maintenance for passenger
>vehicules is :
...this obviously is NOT Toyota... <g>
I'm at 12 years and spent 200 USD for repairs last year...
>
>age of car
>1 $200
>2 $350
>3 $500
>4 $800
>5 to12: $1100 per year
>
>Survey respondants claimed driving an average of 19k km per year, or app
>12k milles. (I am sure most respondants dont keep a detailed history of
>repair costs. So let's add a couple of hundred dollars to the age 5 -12
>figure.)
>
>In the last 12 months, I spent $1400 on my 1998 Max. I drove 22k km. It now
>has 103k km on the odometer.
>
>In my estimation, the economical break point for owning a vehicule is when
>it reaches 7-8 years old. At that point, the average yearly total cost of
>depreciation, repairs and capital cost is at minimum. Beyond 8 years, the
>average yearly cost does not get any significantly lower. As a matter of
>fact, you increase the risk of being stranded, car downtime, time lost while
>at shops, and loss of income if you depend on the car for such. The most
>economical strategy is to buy a used car between 2 and 5 years old and keep
>untill it reaches 7 or 8 years of age. A made myself a rule of thumb to
>seriously consider getting rid of the car if the last 12 months actual costs
>or next 12 months forecast exceeds $1500. But often emotions get in the way.
>Or life has other plans.
>
>Dan, Montreal
>
Scott in Florida
Dave Arbok
> it reaches 7-8 years old. At that point, the average yearly total cost of
> depreciation, repairs and capital cost is at minimum. Beyond 8 years, the
> average yearly cost does not get any significantly lower. As a matter of
> fact, you increase the risk of being stranded, car downtime, time lost while
> at shops, and loss of income if you depend on the car for such. The most
> economical strategy is to buy a used car between 2 and 5 years old and keep
> untill it reaches 7 or 8 years of age. A made myself a rule of thumb to
> seriously consider getting rid of the car if the last 12 months actual costs
> or next 12 months forecast exceeds $1500. But often emotions get in the way.
> Or life has other plans.
Every year, cars are made safer- more of them have more air bags, ABS
systems, traction control, a higher percentage are AWD, they are
tweaked based on better computer and physical simulations of crashes.
Car crashes are by far the largest cause of accidental death. Your
life is worth an almost infinite amount of money to you. The time to
get rid of a car is when it is old enough that you no longer feel safe
because newer cars are so much improved. It is likely that you will
no longer feel as safe as you could be with a newer car, long, long
before the expense of maintaining the old one becomes annoying.
Scott in Florida
wrote:
How about taking a driving course and improving your ability to avoid
a crash?
Why do people make themselves feel safer by some stupid computer when
they have the most powerful computer on the planet between their ears?
Cars don't avoid crashes...PEOPLE do...
Scott in Florida
Joseph Oberlander
> How about taking a driving course and improving your ability to avoid
> a crash?
>
> Why do people make themselves feel safer by some stupid computer when
> they have the most powerful computer on the planet between their ears?
At a certain point, though, the suspension and components on the
vehicle are worn to where the vehicle kind of moves in the general
direction. The crispness and instant response is gone.
Eventually it gets to be like a big old Caddy - you point and
it lurches.
IME, 12-15 years is about when this usually happens.
Nirodac
after a while. My company used to (before budget cuts) insist that all
persons driving company vehicles take a refresher course every 5 years.
Believe me, it helps.
As for the 12-15 years suspension issue I agree somewhat, it depends on the
car and the drive. After twenty years I had my XR7 inspected, and the
mechanic said the steering was almost as good as the day the car left the
factory. The secret is regular maintenance (in this case, I lubed the ball
joints at every oil change, they had grease nipples). I can't find any
grease nipples on the ball joints of my Eclipse, which means I'm probably in
trouble, in about 12-15 years (when they say "lubed for life" who's life are
they talking about). This is an improvement??. By the way, the suspension
on the XR7 did go before twenty years, but springs and bushings for a Ford
are cheap. Again I say, it's all in the maintenance, take care of your car,
and it'll take care of you.
Of course if you have a wife who is tired of an 18 foot long 2880 Kg, 6.6
liter, fuel guzzler, no maintenance in the world is going to save the car.
Nirodac
"Joseph Oberlander" <josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8pH%b.11507$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Scott in Florida
You would be welcome to come drive my '92 Corolla wagon.
It is a crisp as the day it was new.
The mechanics at my favorite Toy Dealer in Venice FL marvel at it and
are just waiting for me to fall in love with one of those new
Toys...LOL.
Now I have kept up with all maintenance and fixed things that went
wrong right away.
If you take care of a Toy, it will take care of you!!!
Scott in Florida
Scott in Florida
wrote:
>Actually driving courses would be good, people tend to get sloppy at driving
>after a while. My company used to (before budget cuts) insist that all
>persons driving company vehicles take a refresher course every 5 years.
>Believe me, it helps.
>
>As for the 12-15 years suspension issue I agree somewhat, it depends on the
>car and the drive. After twenty years I had my XR7 inspected, and the
>mechanic said the steering was almost as good as the day the car left the
>factory. The secret is regular maintenance (in this case, I lubed the ball
>joints at every oil change, they had grease nipples). I can't find any
>grease nipples on the ball joints of my Eclipse, which means I'm probably in
>trouble, in about 12-15 years (when they say "lubed for life" who's life are
>they talking about). This is an improvement??. By the way, the suspension
>on the XR7 did go before twenty years, but springs and bushings for a Ford
>are cheap. Again I say, it's all in the maintenance, take care of your car,
>and it'll take care of you.
>Of course if you have a wife who is tired of an 18 foot long 2880 Kg, 6.6
>liter, fuel guzzler, no maintenance in the world is going to save the car.
>
>Nirodac
>
>
LOL...one of life's rules...
If Moma ain't happy....nobody is happy!!!
Scott in Florida
Nirodac
"Scott in Florida" <NotInThi...@nope.ucan't> wrote in message
news:uuuu30to1g891onqa...@4ax.com...
Bruce L. Bergman
<josephob...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>At a certain point, though, the suspension and components on the
>vehicle are worn to where the vehicle kind of moves in the general
>direction. The crispness and instant response is gone.
>
>Eventually it gets to be like a big old Caddy - you point and
>it lurches.
>
>IME, 12-15 years is about when this usually happens.
You have to look at the overall condition of the body, the interior,
and the drivetrain, and ask yourself some tough questions - If I put
$1000 into rebuilding the front suspension, or the steering box/rack
and pinion, or the rear axle, or the half-shafts, or whatever, will I
get the money back by driving the car for a few more years?
It Never makes sense to do major repairs and renovations to a car or
truck if you are going to turn around and sell it, other than the
minimum needed to get the car road-worthy if the wheel fell off - if
it's not driveable you get no money at all for it.
But if the car meets your needs, isn't structurally rusting out or
otherwise approaching "the point of no return", and repair parts are
still available, it's often a LOT cheaper to keep your old car, get
things repaired properly as they break, and keep driving it.
You take a big hit from depreciation and financing when you buy a
new car - put the money you'd use for new car payments in the bank as
savings, and you'll have a big cash pool to pay for the repairs as
they come up - and usually a lot of money left over.
--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
Timothy J. Lee
Crunchy Cookie <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
>average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?
It is highly dependent on the maintenance the car has received.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Joseph Oberlander
> You have to look at the overall condition of the body, the interior,
> and the drivetrain, and ask yourself some tough questions - If I put
> $1000 into rebuilding the front suspension, or the steering box/rack
> and pinion, or the rear axle, or the half-shafts, or whatever, will I
> get the money back by driving the car for a few more years?
>
> It Never makes sense to do major repairs and renovations to a car or
> truck if you are going to turn around and sell it, other than the
> minimum needed to get the car road-worthy if the wheel fell off - if
> it's not driveable you get no money at all for it.
True, but the value of a 12-15 year old car is usually no more than
$1500-$2000 at best. $1000 is often closer to reality in the current
tough marketplace we now have. So - when the cost of keeping it
running properly exceeds the value - time to get a better car.
Stephen Bigelow
"Scott in Florida" <NotInThi...@nope.ucan't> wrote in message
news:uuuu30to1g891onqa...@4ax.com...
> If Moma ain't happy....nobody is happy!!!
"Happy Wife, Happy Life"
Crunchy Cookie
news:103s51o...@corp.supernews.com...
> For me the math is simple:
>
> A car's time is up at the point at which the cost of maintaining/repairing
> the old car approaches (or exceeds) the cost of owning a new car OR the
> point at which the effort of maintaining the old car (lack of reliability
> etc.) exceed the value of my time.
Well, you can't just compare it to a new car since that's the highest standard;
you could compare it to other used cars of varying ages, which was my
inspiration for the question. Like I said, I think I asked the wrong
question -- it should've been "at what age is a used car not worth buying?" and
even then, it would be too vague, since it calls for clarification. So I should
have said "at what age is a used car not worth buying if you plan to keep it for
about 4 or 5 years?" Before everyone answered, I thought most cars were ticking
time bombs in the 100K range, but every poster seems to have a 200-400K story to
tell without as much as one rebuild.
do...@atxwhatxag.usenet.us.com
> Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
> average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?
The only car I've sold with under 100,000 miles is an RX-7. Loved the car,
just moved on to something else. The others have mostly been purchased
new, and sold with 120,000+ on them, when I get bored with them.
do...@atxwhatxag.usenet.us.com
> In rec.autos.makers.honda Crunchy Cookie <LSC...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
>> average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?
> The only car I've sold with under 100,000 miles is an RX-7. Loved the car,
> just moved on to something else. The others have mostly been purchased
> new, and sold with 120,000+ on them, when I get bored with them.
The question was specifically American cars, but I tossed in the RX-7 ;-)
84 Plymouth Voyager new-140K. 88 Dodge Dakota new-288K (not done yet).
92 Chrysler Town&Country new-130K. 96 Mustang GT, 18K-120K.
00 Dodge Durango 16K-88K, still in use, but thinking...
The Dakota has had some miscellaneous partts replaced that are adding up,
but no engine work yet.
Scott in Florida
wrote:
>"AMG" <mart...@nojunkrica.net> wrote in message
>news:103s51o...@corp.supernews.com...
>> For me the math is simple:
>>
>> A car's time is up at the point at which the cost of maintaining/repairing
>> the old car approaches (or exceeds) the cost of owning a new car OR the
>> point at which the effort of maintaining the old car (lack of reliability
>> etc.) exceed the value of my time.
>
>Well, you can't just compare it to a new car since that's the highest standard;
>you could compare it to other used cars of varying ages, which was my
>inspiration for the question. Like I said, I think I asked the wrong
>question -- it should've been "at what age is a used car not worth buying?" and
>even then, it would be too vague, since it calls for clarification. So I should
>have said "at what age is a used car not worth buying if you plan to keep it for
>about 4 or 5 years?" Before everyone answered, I thought most cars were ticking
>time bombs in the 100K range, but every poster seems to have a 200-400K story to
>tell without as much as one rebuild.
>
Well that is true for Toyota...but I sure would not bet on it with
Ford or Crapslers...
And even with Toyota...you need to have the maintenance history. You
sure don't want one of the 'Soccer Mom's' sludged up car or van that
she 'forgot' to change the oil for 40,000 miles...
Scott in Florida
Scott in Florida
I do NOT agree.
The value (to me at least) of a car/wagon/truck is the transportation.
I never plan to sell anything I buy. Gonna live with it till the
wheels fall off <g>.
When the wheels fall off...it goes to charity for a tax write off.
YMMV
Scott in Florida
Scott in Florida
Well said....and VERY true <g>.
Scott in Florida
Peter Hill
<NotInThi...@nope.ucan't> wrote:
>On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:25:48 GMT, "Daniel" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>A national CAA survey (equivalent to the AAA) among 20000 respondants
>>performed in 2003 revealed the average cost of maintenance for passenger
>>vehicules is :
>
>...this obviously is NOT Toyota... <g>
>
>I'm at 12 years and spent 200 USD for repairs last year...
I had a '81 1.8 910 series Nissan Bluebird coupe (SSS without the oil
pressure gauge, voltmeter and electric mirrors), one owner from new
79K miles. Bought it in '89 for £1000 and collected £325 (£350 less
£25 salvage) insurance when it was 'T' boned 5 years and 46K miles
later. I spent less than £750 including a clutch, front pads, rear
shoes, an exhaust system, alternator, and two sets of tyres. The
clutch and brakes had to be done very soon after buying it, so I had
my moneys worth even though it was a main dealer and cost £400. £285
per year before fuel, tax, mot and insurance.
It was followed by a 10 year old, 9 previous owners (like the 65K
miles was real) '84 Celica 2.0XT liftback. This was even cheaper to
run as the battery and tyres from the Bluebird went straight on and
lasted quite well - battery finally died at 11 years old having been
on a 910 estate for 2 years before the coupe. I had also learnt how
to change brushes on the alternator for £1 instead of buying a
replacement for £60. Clutch kit £80 from motor factor and found
someone to fit it for £120. Bought for £1400, got £850 + salvage 5
years and 42K miles later. About £250 per year.
Pars
120,000km. Otherwise, all major components are still original.
Pars
Pars
claiming them. Honda revolutionized the market when they came out with that car.
Pars
Brian Bergin
|How about taking a driving course and improving your ability to avoid
|a crash?
You can be the best trained driver in the world but as long as the other idiots
are out there it is often for not. If someone slams into your side door at a
decent in a 20 year old car with no side impact door beams you're dead or worse.
If you're in an old car without front crumple zones and someone pulls out and
you cannot stop (even with the best of brakes, tires, and shocks you're not
always going to be able to stop) and your engine ends up in your lap, you're
dead.
Thanks...
Brian Bergin
I can be reached via e-mail at
cisco_dot_news_at_comcept_dot_net.
Please post replies to the group so all may benefit.
Andrew
> In article <9Sd%b.413137$na.800850@attbi_s04>,
> Crunchy Cookie <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Not that I really care (hence why I didn't ask), but so, do you think the
>>average lifespan of American cars even hits 6 digits?
The odometers of the three American cars that I've owned (70's and 80's
models) rolled over at 99,999 miles. Is this still the case for new
American cars, or are do American manufacturers have more confidence
in their product these days?
Andrew
Bruce L. Bergman
It's less a matter of 'confidence in the car' and more 'keep people
from lying and saying it hasn't rolled over and it is 32,000 miles
instead of 132,000 - or 132,000 instead of 232,000. Every American
car I've noticed in the last ten years or so has a million-mile
odometer - and with (lots of) proper care, sensible driving (and a
little luck), it can still be rolled over.
"Clocking" or rolling back the odometer is a felony, as is replacing
the speedometer without disclosing the actual mileage on the vehicle
with a permanent tag on the door-post and an 'actual mileage'
affidavit certificate with the title...
But lying about something that can't be proven or disproven (because
the odometer only goes to 99,999) is easier to get away with.
Saintor
> The 96 Model Accord was quite common 4 years back. I guess rust most be finally
> claiming them.
Are you sure you meant '96?
While 2-3 years ago, I have seen Accord '94-95 with rusted rear well, I
have not seen so far a '96+ Honda with this problem. It seems to me
that the '96 refresh included a cure for this.
Tegger®
news:od274016p1d0i08nj...@4ax.com:
> Scott in Florida <NotInThi...@nope.ucan't> wrote:
>
>|How about taking a driving course and improving your ability to avoid
>|a crash?
>
> You can be the best trained driver in the world but as long as the
> other idiots are out there it is often for not. If someone slams into
> your side door at a decent in a 20 year old car with no side impact
> door beams you're dead or worse.
Then be careful and take a look before you enter that intersection. That's
what we oldsters used to have to do before Safety Devices.
> If you're in an old car without front
> crumple zones and someone pulls out and you cannot stop (even with the
> best of brakes, tires, and shocks you're not always going to be able
> to stop) and your engine ends up in your lap, you're dead.
What? How old are you?
My own father was involved in a collision in 1957 in his 1956 Dodge. It was
his fault as he was passing someone on a hill (no I'm not proud of that),
and collided head-on at 40 mph with another car. His car had NO SEATBELTS
and had a hard-painted steel dash and all sorts of chromed metal sticky-up
bits to impale yourself on.
I can send you a pic of that car if you wish. He lived. No effect on his
lifestyle, which was very active.
"Crumple zones" are like hybrid cars, somebody's Jamaican ganja idea of a
"good thing".
--
TeGGeR®
Steph
thought I was getting a really good deal - a 1994 Mazda MX3 with only
84,000 kms. The first few months were good, but then when winter hit
I discovered that this car does not handle well on the snow. As well,
I got into an accident. So I was in debt the price of the car as well
as the repairs. And even though this car had a high selling value,
based on the insurance companies records it was worth about $4,000
less than I had paid for it! As well, when you purchase cars under
(but close to) 100,000 km you have to keep in mind that a lot of
repairs and maintenance need to be done at this mileage. For me, it
included a new timing belt, header gasket, exhaust system, and pretty
soon new brakes. So even though it may seem like you are getting a
good deal, you are not necessarily. If I could go back and do it
again I think I would purchase a new car, or at least a newer car that
still had a warranty. The costs of used cars often outweigh their
benefits.
Nirodac
If you know cars and what to look for, and have some abilities at minor
repairs, a 100,000 Km vehicle could be a good buy,(did the current or
previous, owner already do all those required repairs)? I bought two for my
kids (about 120,000 Km), they added about 130,000Km before needing major
maintenance (about $1000.00 and $1200.00, and in one case that included the
engine and transaxle replacement (one kid is an aggressive driver, the other
had two bad ECU's, and a worn clutch).
Other wise stick with a newer car, pay the price and have the warranty.
Consider this, my father-in-law has an American car with 40,000 miles on
it. He bought it new, doesn't drive much, so the warranty expired by time,
not miles driven. He has to date replaced, at his cost; the engine, the
transmission, the exhaust system, and the brakes, as well as having the
entire car repainted, and the dash board rebuilt. He has had no accidents.
At 40,000 miles, would you consider this car a good buy, if he was asking
market value, I wouldn't.
You can get into an accident in any car, in any weather, this could be an
inexperienced driver issue, and not a poor car issue. To much horse power
in poor driving conditions is a bad thing. I have a vehicle with a 6.6
litre (400CID) engine, and starting off in the compact snow was no easy
task, but I've never had an accident in it that I was at fault.
Is $1200.00 invested in a 12 year old car a good investment? I think so,
since they'll probably get another five years use out of the cars without
needing major repairs.
"Steph" <s...@ualberta.ca> wrote in message
news:2d0f0ac2.04030...@posting.google.com...
dizzy
wrote:
>Consider this, my father-in-law has an American car with 40,000 miles on
>it. He bought it new, doesn't drive much, so the warranty expired by time,
>not miles driven. He has to date replaced, at his cost; the engine, the
>transmission, the exhaust system, and the brakes, as well as having the
>entire car repainted, and the dash board rebuilt. He has had no accidents.
>At 40,000 miles, would you consider this car a good buy, if he was asking
>market value, I wouldn't.
Why does he keep the pile of crap?
I suppose he'll buy the same brand again, in the hopes they've
"finally" gotten their act together (after 100 years of being in the
car business).
Nirodac
Paint problems, yes, an issue with the manufacturer, I've seen this across
all lines including Toyota.
Engine failure, Well if you don't put antifreeze in a car, in Canada, you'll
be replacing the engine.
Transmission; If you think you can go from forward to reverse (and reverse
to forward) without stopping the car in the middle, may I suggest you get
friendly with the manager of your local tranie shop, he may give you a
frequent visitor discount.
Exhaust systems that aren't used much in damp climates, tend to wear
(corrode) faster.
And going from 60 to zero in a short distance, will wear the brakes.
The point is, it's how the car was maintained and driven that makes a used
car a good buy, or a good bye.
"dizzy" <di...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:0lji40ti839ftkgo8...@4ax.com...
Pars
Pars