OT: Loaned out a '97 NA today....
Hal
some errands...."Hey, I wanna take the wife for a date tonight...can I
borrow your Miata?". He wanted the red one..my 2004 MSM. Not wanting
to give away the nice one for fear that he didn't know how to drive a
stick-shift, I offered the 97, blue/green depending on the angle you
see it at.
Long story short, he brought the '97 back, in one piece thankfully,
many many hours later, with a full tank of gas for me and a grin from
ear to ear that he couldn't wipe off if he tried. He had nothing but
good things to say about it, and even his wife liked it, no surprise
there. Apparently they never made it to the dinner date, it was all
cruising around town, driving on the freeway, cruising around town
some more, and so on for them.....
Zoom zoom indeed. There really is something to these 2 door 'verts,
huh? :-)
Chris
pws
Cool! I wish I was neighbors with ya!
Oh yeah, they are both nice ones. Gotta talk good about that NA too. ;-)
Pat
Chris D'Agnolo
Chris
99BBB
"pws" <pwsh...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:her84o$lqu$1...@aioe.org...
Carbon
That's cool. I had a similar experience recently when I let one of my
co-workers drive my MSM. Now, I get my share of good-natured ribbing
about driving a chick car and all the rest of it. I'm sure you've all
heard it. But he came back with a big smile on his face and I believe he
uttered the word "awesome" about a hundred times. That was about my
reaction the first time I drove it as well.
I've never driven in any Miata besides my MSM. I'd be very curious to
try an NA for comparison.
Hal
> I've never driven in any Miata besides my MSM. I'd be very curious to
> try an NA for comparison.
I will say this...they are two entirely different beasts. The 1997 NA
that I have is a fine, fine driving machine. Honestly, it seems like
it is a bit more responsive throttle-wise than the MSM. I find it
easier to get a good launch out of the NA than the MSM. It could be in
my head, but when I drive the MSM I find myself waiting for the turbo
to spool up and the ECM to make up its mind about "Boost, or not
boost? That is the question". In first and second gear, the ride is
over before it starts. You have to shift again...and again...and
again.
The NA....push the gas, it's there. All 120 horses. First gear goes a
long way. And as far as the 6 speed versus 5 speed goes, don't get me
wrong, having six gears is pretty damn sweet, but with the short
ratios in the MSM gearbox I could almost shift twice getting out of my
driveway. And to hit 60mph in the MSM, you have to go into 3rd gear
unless you have a modded ECM that lets you go past the strangely-low
6500 RPM fuel cut. I haven't figured that one out...1997 cuts at 7,300
RPM, 2004 MSM cuts at 6,500. It's the same engine AFAIK...so why is it
like that? You can hit 60mph in 2nd on an NA.
Anyway.....if you wanna borrow an NA the place 2 houses down from me
is for sale..... :-)
Chris
Me
> I haven't figured that one out...1997 cuts at 7,300
> RPM, 2004 MSM cuts at 6,500. It's the same engine AFAIK...so why is it
> like that? You can hit 60mph in 2nd on an NA.
>
1.8 with BP5A (similar to BP4W) motor has the same intake cam as the MSM
(higher lift and longer duration than the BP4W), yet fuel cutout /
engine red-line is 7500 rpm.
pws
> That's cool. I had a similar experience recently when I let one of my
> co-workers drive my MSM. Now, I get my share of good-natured ribbing
> about driving a chick car and all the rest of it. I'm sure you've all
> heard it. But he came back with a big smile on his face and I believe he
> uttered the word "awesome" about a hundred times. That was about my
> reaction the first time I drove it as well.
>
> I've never driven in any Miata besides my MSM. I'd be very curious to
> try an NA for comparison.
I have driven and/or ridden somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 NA's,
but I have never been at the wheel of a MSM.
In fact, I have only driven 2 NB's, and also 2 NC's, so far.
All of the 1999+ Miatas I have driven were naturally aspirated, and the
only "charged" NA that I have driven is my current 1991 turbo Miata.
Pat
Frank Berger
> Neighbor down the street stopped me as I was leaving the house to run
> some errands...."Hey, I wanna take the wife for a date tonight...can I
> borrow your Miata?". He wanted the red one..my 2004 MSM. Not wanting
> to give away the nice one for fear that he didn't know how to drive a
> stick-shift, I offered the 97, blue/green depending on the angle you
> see it at.
>
Lanny Chambers
<458c489b-7472-445d...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Hal <hal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can hit 60mph in 2nd on an NA.
An indicated 60, perhaps, but I don't think it'll quite reach an actual
60 without oversized tires. Doesn't matter, of course--it's just an
arbitrary speed.
--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C
Hal
> 60 without oversized tires. Doesn't matter, of course--it's just an
> arbitrary speed.
>
I dunno, I could be wrong but my 97 NA is wearing 185/65 R14's I
think....whatever the alloy rims from the factory came with,and I was
able to go past 60 in 2nd gear...but I was past 7,000RPM when I did
it. The MSM just starts bouncing off the revlimiter at 6500....can't
get there in 2nd.
Does anyone know what the ratios are for the 5spd and 6spd gearbox? I
managed to snag a copy of the FSM for the 6 speed that I have the '04
MSM, but I didn't see mention of the ratios..just how to take the
thing apart and put it back together.
Chris
Lanny Chambers
<d173b5cd-01b8-4f00...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Hal <hal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I dunno, I could be wrong but my 97 NA is wearing 185/65 R14's I
> think....whatever the alloy rims from the factory came with,and I was
> able to go past 60 in 2nd gear...
My point was, how do you know? The Miata speedometer is typically 3-5
mph optimistic at highway speeds, and although it may have read 60 you
were probably doing no more than 57 or 58 at the rev limiter.
> Does anyone know what the ratios are for the 5spd and 6spd gearbox?
Scroll down this page for a table: http://solomiata.com/Drivetrain.html
Hal
> My point was, how do you know? The Miata speedometer is typically 3-5
> mph optimistic at highway speeds, and although it may have read 60 you
> were probably doing no more than 57 or 58 at the rev limiter.
>
'Tis a good point. The only way to know for sure would be to do the
math and see, based on the tire diameter, what the theoretical maximum
speed would be at 7,300RPM.
So...I have a problem. I don't know what differential is in my '97,
and apparently two were available. If it has the 4.10, then I would be
going 63.5MPH in 2nd gear at 7300 RPM. That would seem to match what I
saw on the speedo, being a bit past 60 before I hit fuel-cut. If it
has the 4.30 unit, then that speed drops to 60.6 MPH
Check this out,I found a cool calculator and if you use this link it
has the miata 5 speed box ratios already plugged in for you:
>
> Scroll down this page for a table:http://solomiata.com/Drivetrain.html
>
Thanks for the link, that page has a lot of good info on it. As I
suspected, the 6 speed has a -much- shorter first gear, and the ratios
are very close compared to the 5 speed unit. I re-did the link above
for the 6-speed box just to see what the max speeds would be on an
unmodified car that cuts at 6,500 RPM. With a 3.909 rear end(which I
think the mazdaspeed probably came with in '04 and '05) you're only
going to get about 50mph out of 2nd gear.
Check this one out(99+ 6 speed box):
Thanks,
Chris
Lanny Chambers
<b915e95f-f601-4f49...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Hal <hal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The only way to know for sure would be to do the
> math and see, based on the tire diameter, what the theoretical maximum
> speed would be at 7,300RPM.
Chris, are you an engineer? :)
Actually, you won't know the speedometer error for sure unless you time
the car between mile markers, or use police radar. GPS may be close
enough, I dunno.
Math is fun, but it's no substitute for empirical measurement. Tire
dimensions will vary from one tire brand/model to another, even when
they're all nominally the same size. And there's treadwear, inflation
pressure, load, centrifugal growth at speed, yadda yadda.
FYI, your stock tire size was 185/60-14. With a manual transmission, you
have 4.10 differential gears. The rev limiter isn't necessarily at 7300
rpm; it might be 7200, or even 7000, according to reports from
miataforum members. Don't trust the tachometer any more than the
speedometer.
XS11E
> Tire dimensions will vary from one tire brand/model to another,
> even when they're all nominally the same size.
I recall that motorcycle tire manufacturers used to provide actual
dimensions on their websites, don't know if car tire manufacturers do
that or not?
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Lanny Chambers
XS11E <xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> I recall that motorcycle tire manufacturers used to provide actual
> dimensions on their websites, don't know if car tire manufacturers do
> that or not?
Some do, some don't. The most valuable number, if available, is
revolutions per mile.