Testing

[BK]

I don't have anything from this group in over a month. Is it dead, or is my
provider not cooperating?

[Jeroen Feelders]

It's dead. :) Dead as a doornail...

Op 11-02-12 19:51, BK schreef:

[Christopher Muto]

On 2/11/2012 1:51 PM, BK wrote:
> I don't have anything from this group in over a month. Is it dead, or is my
> provider not cooperating?
>
>

spring is only a couple of months away. perhaps things will bloom once
again...

[XS11E]

Just one theory..... the "C" Miata is a nice car, the "A" and "B"
Miatas are much more than nice cars, they are objects of passion to
many of us.....

Could the group be dying due to lack of interest and the "C" Miata is
the reason?


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

[Christopher Muto]

On 2/12/2012 6:14 PM, XS11E wrote:
> Christopher Muto<mu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2012 1:51 PM, BK wrote:
>>> I don't have anything from this group in over a month. Is it
>>> dead, or is my provider not cooperating?
>>
>> spring is only a couple of months away. perhaps things will bloom
>> once again...
>
> Just one theory..... the "C" Miata is a nice car, the "A" and "B"
> Miatas are much more than nice cars, they are objects of passion to
> many of us.....
>
> Could the group be dying due to lack of interest and the "C" Miata is
> the reason?
>
>

the age of the car certainly means fewer of them on the road, but the
death of newsgroups is the result of internet service providers no
longer including it for free with internet server. they have decided it
is a unnecessary cost that they can cut without repercussions and a
liability to host content that are potentially copyright violations (not
groups like this but ones that have binary files, scores of posts that
when combined and decoded become movies, music, and video games once
again). the trend is to use web site forums, which are popular for
volkswagon (vwvortex), and jeep, and fords, but not miata...

[Michael Bednarek]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:15:26 -0500, Christopher Muto wrote in
rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata:

All true, but there are http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/ and
http://forum.miata.net/vb/ and http://www.miataturbo.net/ and
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/ .

--
Michael Bednarek "ONWARD"

[XS11E]

Christopher Muto <mu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> the age of the car certainly means fewer of them on the road, but
> the death of newsgroups is the result of internet service
> providers no longer including it for free with internet server.

Irrelevent, free news servers carry this group and most of the regulars
have been here since ISPs dumped newsgroups.

I still think it's because many have gone to the "C" Miata and, while
it's a nice car, it's nothing anyone would get passionate about.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-12, XS11E <xs1...@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> Christopher Muto <mu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2012 1:51 PM, BK wrote:
>>> I don't have anything from this group in over a month. Is it
>>> dead, or is my provider not cooperating?
>>
>> spring is only a couple of months away. perhaps things will bloom
>> once again...
>
> Just one theory..... the "C" Miata is a nice car, the "A" and "B"
> Miatas are much more than nice cars, they are objects of passion to
> many of us.....
>
> Could the group be dying due to lack of interest and the "C" Miata is
> the reason?

I've owned an A and currently own a B. [And before that I owned an
Alfa Romeo Spyder which I bought after I saw a Miata and found out I
couldn't afford one]. The B is getting a bit long in the tooth. Sad
to say it won't be replaced by a C. I just don't like them that much,
and I find I'm less tolerant of the heat and sun than I was 30 years
ago when I started driving convertibles. I'm thinking a test drive of
a Subaru BRZ might be in order this spring. Reviews of the BRZ always
seem to mention Miatas. :)

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I'm also pre-POURED
at pre-MEDITATED and
gmail.com pre-RAPHAELITE!!

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-13, Michael Bednarek <mbATmbed...@BLACKHOLESPAM.NET> wrote:

>>the age of the car certainly means fewer of them on the road, but the
>>death of newsgroups is the result of internet service providers no
>>longer including it for free with internet server. they have decided it
>>is a unnecessary cost that they can cut without repercussions and a
>>liability to host content that are potentially copyright violations (not
>>groups like this but ones that have binary files, scores of posts that
>>when combined and decoded become movies, music, and video games once
>>again). the trend is to use web site forums, which are popular for
>>volkswagon (vwvortex), and jeep, and fords, but not miata...
>
> All true, but there are http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/ and
> http://forum.miata.net/vb/ and http://www.miataturbo.net/ and
> http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/ .

Bah. Web forums. What a waste of time -- the UIs are horrible.
Setting a mailing list and a gateway between the Usenet group and the
mailing list might be a good idea.

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! What PROGRAM are they
at watching?
gmail.com

[XS11E]

Grant Edwards <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Bah. Web forums. What a waste of time -- the UIs are horrible.

Amen.

[Christopher Muto]

On 2/13/2012 11:49 AM, XS11E wrote:
> Grant Edwards<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Bah. Web forums. What a waste of time -- the UIs are horrible.
>
> Amen.
>

besides, most of those cars have the steering wheel on the wrong side ;)

[Christopher Muto]

i think the modern day alternative to the na is the lotus elise. pricey
new but affordable on the used market. however the na/nb miata is very
understated where the elise, though beautiful, is much more "look at me."

[Christopher Muto]

On 2/13/2012 1:07 AM, XS11E wrote:
> Christopher Muto<mu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> the age of the car certainly means fewer of them on the road, but
>> the death of newsgroups is the result of internet service
>> providers no longer including it for free with internet server.
>
> Irrelevent, free news servers carry this group and most of the regulars
> have been here since ISPs dumped newsgroups.
>
> I still think it's because many have gone to the "C" Miata and, while
> it's a nice car, it's nothing anyone would get passionate about.
>

ask anyone under 35 if they know what a newsgroup is and they will look
at you the same way you look at them when they talk about tumbler,
google+, etc.

i do agree that the nc does not inspire passion. i suspect na/nb owners
are not buying the nc but it is a new customer. mazda probably decided
that the original owners have for the most part grown up/out of the
brand and so they targeted a younger market that has different values.
cars like everything else are becoming more and more appliance like, not
something that one tinkers with. look at the engines in today's car,
they encased to look like some sort of power cell or battery that does
not have user serviceable parts. many don't even have a dip stick
anymore to check the fluids (all done by sensors anyway).

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-13, Christopher Muto <mu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>> I've owned an A and currently own a B. [And before that I owned an
>> Alfa Romeo Spyder which I bought after I saw a Miata and found out I
>> couldn't afford one]. The B is getting a bit long in the tooth. Sad
>> to say it won't be replaced by a C. I just don't like them that much,
>> and I find I'm less tolerant of the heat and sun than I was 30 years
>> ago when I started driving convertibles. I'm thinking a test drive of
>> a Subaru BRZ might be in order this spring. Reviews of the BRZ always
>> seem to mention Miatas. :)
>
> i think the modern day alternative to the na is the lotus elise.
> pricey new but affordable on the used market. however the na/nb
> miata is very understated where the elise, though beautiful, is much
> more "look at me."

I just don't think I can "pull off" an Elise. Besides which it looks
like there is exactly 1 used Elise for sale within 200 miles of my zip
code, and the asking price is $50K. If I'm willing to go 250 miles,
there's a second Elise for which somebody is asking $40K.

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! In Newark the
at laundromats are open 24
gmail.com hours a day!

[Carbon]

These new BRZs might be nice, but I really wish Mazda would wipe the
stupid smirk off the face of the NC and do a Mazdaspeed version. That
would get things humming again.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-14, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>> I'm thinking a test drive of a Subaru BRZ might be in order this
>> spring. Reviews of the BRZ always seem to mention Miatas. :)
>
> These new BRZs might be nice, but I really wish Mazda would wipe the
> stupid smirk off the face of the NC and do a Mazdaspeed version. That
> would get things humming again.

The rediculous joker face Mazda has adopted as the central part of its
coporate "design language" is just plain embarassing. And then they
lard on top of that as many random, extraneous design details as they
can get to stick to the tooling. It seems like it all started with
the RX-8 with all its silly vents and creases and flares. The poor
thing looked like it need a to be taken to the cleaners for a good
steam and press.

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I feel like a wet
at parking meter on Darvon!
gmail.com

[Christopher Muto]

those sounds like dealer prices for a new. granted it may be far more
available on the east and west cost than any place in between, but 5
year old and hardly ever driven ones show up all the time for about the
same as the cost of a new miata ($25k).

[Professor]

On 2/14/2012 6:50 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-02-14, Carbon<nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'm thinking a test drive of a Subaru BRZ might be in order this
>>> spring. Reviews of the BRZ always seem to mention Miatas. :)
>>
>> These new BRZs might be nice, but I really wish Mazda would wipe the
>> stupid smirk off the face of the NC and do a Mazdaspeed version. That
>> would get things humming again.
>
> The rediculous joker face Mazda has adopted as the central part of its
> coporate "design language" is just plain embarassing. And then they
> lard on top of that as many random, extraneous design details as they
> can get to stick to the tooling. It seems like it all started with
> the RX-8 with all its silly vents and creases and flares. The poor
> thing looked like it need a to be taken to the cleaners for a good
> steam and press.
>

Take pity on me.... I'm a lurker.
Always wanted a Miata, had to be practical and bought a Mazda 3 GT (Canada).
Is it just the appearance that puts so many of you off the newest MX-5's?
Or is the handling, interior etc. inferior?

Professor

[XS11E]

Professor <jay...@telus.net> wrote:

> Is it just the appearance that puts so many of you off the newest
> MX-5's? Or is the handling, interior etc. inferior?

Yes.

Now it's the appearance, earlier it was the interior. I drove one of
the first "C" Miatas and really wanted to like it but it didn't fit me
at all, the huge cup holders in the door cut into my left leg and the
pedal layout made my right ankle feel like it was on fire after 15
minutes. The redesigned "C" removed the horrible cup holder but added
the hideous front end.

Things to like: Great layout of steering wheel controls, great
improvement in the top mechanism, it's finally possible for me to raise
and lower it w/o getting out of the car (or at least opening the door
and swinging my legs out so I can turn enough to reach the top!) and
the performance is much improved over my 1.6L engine. But the looks
and changes in interior layout prevent me from seriously considering
one.

[charlie]

On 2/14/2012 3:05 PM, XS11E wrote:
> Professor<jay...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> Is it just the appearance that puts so many of you off the newest
>> MX-5's? Or is the handling, interior etc. inferior?
>
> Yes.
>
> Now it's the appearance, earlier it was the interior. I drove one of
> the first "C" Miatas and really wanted to like it but it didn't fit me
> at all, the huge cup holders in the door cut into my left leg and the
> pedal layout made my right ankle feel like it was on fire after 15
> minutes. The redesigned "C" removed the horrible cup holder but added
> the hideous front end.
>
> Things to like: Great layout of steering wheel controls, great
> improvement in the top mechanism, it's finally possible for me to raise
> and lower it w/o getting out of the car (or at least opening the door
> and swinging my legs out so I can turn enough to reach the top!) and
> the performance is much improved over my 1.6L engine. But the looks
> and changes in interior layout prevent me from seriously considering
> one.
>
>

When I bought my 99, it was because I liked the Miata's since I had a
ride in an 89, and, I was driving to and from Florida about once a
month. (550 miles each way) The prior car, an Impala, was putting me to
sleep, and required very frequent stops to wake up.

Since the 99 had non-clear coat red paint, I was able to polish it to a
point that it looked like glass. Then, I used high carnuba wax intended
for RV's and fiberglass boats. The wax lasted for about six months at a
time before it needed anything other than washing.

A couple of years later, after I decided that the warranty coverage was
about gone, I decided to try Solo racing for a bit.

Then after a year or so, since things were still holding more or less
together, it was time to turbocharge. This involved a new radiator,
changing 5th gear, added gauges, new electronics, new larger exhaust, as
well as an FMII+ SBB turbo kit. The Miata then had eight injectors
instead of four, as it does today.

In the middle of all this I started having what turned out to be
ignition pack problems that were intermittent, and very puzzling as to
symptoms. After that was finally solved, the Solo group had lost the
local site, and had to move to a city about twenty miles away.
As a result, I sort of lost interest.

Anyway, I'm not happy with the current Miatas at all. They are going the
same way that the Nissan/Datsun "Fair Lady" did. (From a decent sports
car to a relatively expensive plushy sporty car.

Bring on a redesigned Miata, with good factory turbocharging, and
eliminate the unnecessary frills and foo foo!

[XS11E]

charlie <cdkn...@msn.com> wrote:

> Anyway, I'm not happy with the current Miatas at all. They are
> going the same way that the Nissan/Datsun "Fair Lady" did. (From a

> decent sports car to a relatively expensive plushy sporty car.)

I see from the responses here that my original thought that the "C"
type is a nice car but not one about which people can be passionate
seems to be the common thread.

> Bring on a redesigned Miata, with good factory turbocharging, and

> eliminate the unnecessary frills and foo foo.

Turbocharging isn't necessary, Miata's were never about performance,
they were/are about balance, fun, etc. They were the car I 'want' vs
the car I 'need' (ie, mini-van.)

[charlie]

On 2/15/2012 1:06 PM, XS11E wrote:
> charlie<cdkn...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, I'm not happy with the current Miatas at all. They are
>> going the same way that the Nissan/Datsun "Fair Lady" did. (From a
>> decent sports car to a relatively expensive plushy sporty car.)
>
> I see from the responses here that my original thought that the "C"
> type is a nice car but not one about which people can be passionate
> seems to be the common thread.
>
>> Bring on a redesigned Miata, with good factory turbocharging, and
>> eliminate the unnecessary frills and foo foo.
>
> Turbocharging isn't necessary, Miata's were never about performance,
> they were/are about balance, fun, etc. They were the car I 'want' vs
> the car I 'need' (ie, mini-van.)
>
>

We put about 235,000 on an 89 Mazda MPV, and well over 100,000 on an 85
Plymouth minivan. Now that the kids are grown, no more need for a minivan.


A lot of things aren't "necessary". It just depends on individual needs.
"load em up" just creates higher prices, along with a slightly wider
customer base.

On the other hand, turbocharging, done properly by the OEM,
has quite a few benefits.

More power
Better fuel mileage (as long as the driver doesn't have a lead foot)
Possible reduction in emissions (Again of the OEM does things properly
and completely)
Smaller engine displacement to produce the same amount of power
(hopefully reduces size and weight)

Drawbacks - several, unfortunately.
More frequent oil changes, using high quality oil.
Higher underhood temperature, shortening the life of various rubber
hoses, etc.
Fewer mechanics trained properly, qualified and experienced in
servicing/repairing turbocharged engines.
Adaptive tuning and knock protection needed to compensate for fuel
differences. (non turbo'd engines often have similar needs to a slightly
lesser level)

The Miata's do suffer a bit due to lack of power. A "balanced"
power would fall in the 200-300 Hp area. Remember that the rated
power is usually much more than that actually developed in day to day
usage, and is generally not available at the wheels.

My 99
(stock) Rated ~ 140Hp, at the rear wheels 110Hp
(with Turbo) at the rear wheels 200-220 (measured, and based upon 1/4
mile times), detuned for day to day use 160-180 at the rear wheels.

The most noticeable issue with the 99 is that the stock ECU is still
used, and it's a bit slow to respond, due to it's design. Aftermarket
add-ons can only do so much.

One of the more noticeable differences is (naturally) much better
behavior in the mountains. Less need to downshift on hills is just one
example.

[Chris D'Agnolo]

"Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2012.02...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com...

>
> These new BRZs might be nice, but I really wish Mazda would wipe the
> stupid smirk off the face of the NC and do a Mazdaspeed version. That
> would get things humming again.

I agree totally with the need for a MS Ver again and I mentioned it
(strongly) to Mazda at the Houston Auto Show after asking the person if
Mazda was interested in customer feedback. They said yes, of course! The
Mazda lady that I was talking to takes her NC on the track and many other
people do too. I don't believe the new car is uninspired, I just don't think
it's inspiring enough. Mazda has to be careful obviously, everybody else has
tried to do different things with their little roadsters and they have not
survived!

One thing I can say for sure is that Mazda listens to customer input so, if
you can make some effort, you might even effect change. I also told the
girl, two other things. 1) the nose / face of the car needs to quit looking
ridiculous (clown-like) and more serious and 2) Mazda should be building a
MS3 in the sedan form. I know allot of middle-aged guys who love it's
performance and price (both of which are top of it's class) but that I
didn't know anybody my age who would be caught dead in the (styled for the
teenagers) hatchback version. Here's a whole new market waiting for Mazda
with something between little and no, R&D investment, to take advantage of.

Hey, there was some talk of a special edition retractable hard top version
with sport suspension and Recaro seats now, that could get my blood going
but at over $30k, I can't currently go there so, I'm left out again.
http://www.mazdausamedia.com/content/mazda-debuts-2012-mx-5-miata-special-edition-chicago-auto-show
Maybe my 99 is going to have to live forever?! Actually, I don't think used
NC's are that bad of price. Maybe one of these days.

The Elise is a great Miata replacement (performance wise) but try taking a
weekend trip with the wife to the hill country ........ ain't going to
happen!

Oh, I also suggested to Mazda a 3rd thing; Do the MS Miata with the rotary
engine! Call it a Mazdaspeed RX5 Miata. Small engine, low center of gravity
and plenty of power for Mazda's next Miata which is reportedly going to be
super light again, hey, maybe they are coming back to us after all!

Wow, that's allot of typing to a 'dead group' ;-)
Chris
99BBB

[Chris D'Agnolo]

"Professor" <jay...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:jhe67e$j8s$1...@dont-email.me...

>>
> Take pity on me.... I'm a lurker.
> Always wanted a Miata, had to be practical and bought a Mazda 3 GT
> (Canada).
> Is it just the appearance that puts so many of you off the newest MX-5's?
> Or is the handling, interior etc. inferior?
>
> Professor

This group MUST be still alive, WE HAVE A LURKER! lol
Thanks Professor for speaking up. This space might come alive again some
day.
To answer your question, the Miata is still a great platform, capable of
doing just about anything you want to do with it imho. Aftermarket companies
still make TONS of stuff for it.

Chris
99BBB

[charlie]

Mazda has in the past basically said that you can forget ever seeing a
rotary in the Miata. I believe that the emissions and durability along
with cost are the major reasons. Now that the Miata has grown in size
and weight, it might be considered. Look at what happened to the "Z".

Think about a rotary in the front, and a trans-axle in the rear.

[Chris D'Agnolo]

"charlie" <cdkn...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:Z4L%q.31800$pC1....@unlimited.newshosting.com...

Ya, that's an interesting idea. Your right about Mazda's reluctance to go
rotary in the Miata, if they do something like that, they have hinted of it
being a new RX7 which would be fabulous!

Mazda has hinted of many, even radical things for the Miata (remember the
Ibuki concept car?)
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/2003-mazda-ibuki-concept-ar31762.html
While I wasn't blown away by the looks, the technology is quite amazing and
this was a hundred years ago in 2003!

I don't follow you on the "Z" comment, explain please.

Chris
99BBB

[charlie]

The "Z" reference is to what happened to the Datsun/Nissan "sports car".
It was decent to begin with (other than some carb/manifold problems).
Then, the size, price, and whistles and bells made it into a "luxury
sports car". The original name for the car in Japanese translates to
English as "Fair Lady".

[Chris D'Agnolo]

"charlie" <cdkn...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:g410r.52245$_Y2....@unlimited.newshosting.com...

Gottcha! Well, I would strongly suggest that Mazda has not done anything as
horrible to the current Miata as Nissan (Datsun) did when they converted the
'Z' to the 'ZX' (1979). That was a total abomination. I think, more
accurately, the Miata has followed the path of the 240Z's transition to the
last of the 280Z's (1978). While the Visual changes are much more radical on
the Miata, it is still pretty much true to it's original intent imho. I'm
looking forward to Mazda's next move but they've been pretty conservative
lately.

With all of this talk about the new BRZ / Scion 86 (or whatever it'll be
called), maybe Mazda will be inspired to take a little risk.

Chris
99BBB

Interesting note: spell checker didn't recognize 'Datsun' ! lol