Mustang vs Miata
jons...@hotmail.com
I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
Which is the better car?
Jonathan Simms
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
nos...@mdi.ca
In <8739189...@dejanews.com>, on 09/10/97
at 02:21 PM, jons...@hotmail.com said:
>I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
>field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
>having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
>better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun. So
>I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>Which is the better car?
IMHO Mustang GT might be a better idea... there are more aftermarket parts
for the Ford Mustang GT... plus there are the extra "torture" backseats for
the little guys... :)
===Proud Member of Team OS/2, Team OS/2 at Taiwan, ICENews Beta Tester===
===================And Bovine Team Warped Key Crucher====================
NUTS' Home Base
US Mirror http://www.cybermail.net/~davidwei
Taiwanese Mirror http://www.taconet.com.tw/~davidwei
=========================================================================
This message is brought to you by the combined power of
OS/2 TWarp Connect V3.0 and the amazing MR/2 ICE V1.34 News Beta 34.
Warning! Vacuum Behind Windows! DO NOT OPEN!
HERBAVOR
In article <8739189...@dejanews.com>, jons...@hotmail.com spewed forth
from his/her keyboard...
>I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
>field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
>having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
>better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
>So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>Which is the better car?
You can fit more than one suitcase in the trunk of the Mustang. The Miata
has little storage room compared to most cars, so if you ever plan to go
anywhere long enough that you need more than one suitcase/duffelbag or plan
to take someone along with you, you won't have much room in the Miata.
The Mustang is probably a safer car, just because of its size, but I don't
have the crash test data available now.
Another thing about the Miata seems too underpowered to be called a sports
car. A lot of family cars will walk away from it like the Miata was standing
still at a traffic light or on the highway. However if Mazda does the
correct thing and adds a more powerful engine next year, then that will be a
huge improvement.
There is a large aftermarket for both cars, but there is a lot more available
for the Mustang, and probably will be in the future.
'bavor
Jim Stoltz
jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
>
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Get a droptop Mustang, and modifiy the suspension so it handles
like a Miata. You get more room, convertible, more power, and
an overall better looking car. BUT, I've heard BIG changes are
in store for the Miata in '98, both cosmetically and POWER-wise.
Jim
--
1988 Mustang GT Convertible
1970 Monte Carlo
http://home.att.net/~jstoltz
Nick Horianopoulos
jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
>
> Jonathan Simms
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
They're both nice cars. The are both very different types of
transportation, too, and for me, I found the Mustang's live rear axle to
be too clunky and induce too many frightening oscillations in uneven
turns (the kind that exist in the real world). Still, the Mustang is an
outstanding value, better than 500 lbs lighter than the Trans Am I
decided on buying last year (and am selling now), has a sweet interior,
and is fairly quick off the line. Furthermore, the Mustang has a nice
SOHC motor that is not some 1950's vintage pushrod-type affair, which
makes it a freer-revving car. Reliability and quality control in these
cars has been described as poor by a wide variety of people, whose
experiences match my own with all Ford products, which probably puts
them about 10 light-years or so ahead of the GM F-bodies. <sigh>
The Miata has a phenomenal sense of road feel. It is a beautiful car,
and of course, a roadster, so this is a quintessential difference
between the two. You have to be able to live with the weaknesses of
roadsters in order to love the advantages, and those weaknesses are
totally minimized in this fine little car. These cars are
nuclear-reliable. Mine has been to the dealer for warranty work ONCE in
36K miles -- at 8 miles, the dealer performed the prep! That's it!
Quality of materials and construction is quite high, and the car was as
refined as a 1994 BMW 325is I test-drove the previous day. They are
snappy in responsiveness, fine cars for both city and highway work, but
for all you low-end torque-seekers, this is a car you have to rev in
order to get decent power out of it. There are SHITLOADS of mods for
these cars (just like the Mustangs) and they are cheap to mod, repair,
and to fill with gas. We're talkin' BANG FER BUCK, HERE!
Both cars are pretty decent incarnations of two totally different ideas.
The Mustang is lovely, goes fast out of the hole, cheap, but common as
dirt and kind of retro-sixties. The Miata is a canyon-carving nightmare,
fast enough through the twisties that any muscle-car would have a HARD
time catching one (it's the mass; 2293 lbs, vs. 3000 or higher for the
Mustang), and thoroughly modern.
I'd go with the Miata; I did, and am happy to say that this is the
nicest car I've ever owned out of ??? (I lost count after 15!)
Sorry 'bout the length.
--
Nick
"Enjoying his continuous-life crisis..."
"Blue Zuzuni" '94 Miata, soon to be Turbo'ed, lowered, etc...
Vist the demented world of Nick Horianopoulos
at: http://www.concentric.net/~greek
Marc
jons...@hotmail.com said:
>I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
>field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
>having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
>better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
>So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>Which is the better car?
Having driven and autocrossed both, I'd rather have the Miata than the
Mustang. It is a personal preference. I'd also rather have the LS-1
Camaro/Firebird over the Mustang.
Marc
For email, remove second "y" from Gum...@tamu.edu
Dave Christian
In article <8739189...@dejanews.com>, jons...@hotmail.com says...
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
>
> Jonathan Simms
The convertible Mustangs are great cars. And fast.
But handling-wise they don't compare to the Miata.
I guess the bottom line is this... if you enjoy going fast in a straight
line, go with the Mustang. If you like whipping around winding roads,
go with the Miata.
--
Dave Christian
davechri AT mindspring DOT com
Remove XNOSPAMX from E-mail address to reply.
I am NOT
cdbe...@cyberpromo.com
cdex...@cyberpromo.com
cheap...@cyberpromo.com
ch...@cyberpromo.com
clas...@cyberpromo.com
tka...@sprintmail.com
t...@cyberpromo.com
tn...@cyberpromo.com
tn...@cyberpromo.com
tops...@cyberpromo.com
Extract THIS!
Robert Allen
jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
The new GT is a 4.6 liter, OBD-II computer'd, overpriced, slow, and
theft prone shadow of it former self. The Miata is also now overpriced,
and has an OBDII computer, but it has a high fun to insurance cost
ratio.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
If luggage capacity and insurance is not an issue, get the Mustang
for luggage capacity and pimp factor, and the Miata for fun, cheap
insurance, no luggage capacity.
I have an '85 Mustang GT with extensive mods, and a 94 Miata with almost
no mods. Both are fun cars, but todays Mustang GT is a sad waste of
car.
It takes *extensive* and *expensive* suspension mods to make it handle
as well as a Miata does out of the box. It has high insurance. It's
not that fast. I'd give serious thought to getting a Miata, and spend
a bit extra on some performance tires, and be happy. It's a blast, and
bozos in other Mustangs and Camaros won't hassle you at stoplights.
Who needs them, have fun! That's what the Mustang used to be about, but
IMHO not anymore. It's now the pimpy, expensive, slow, image car driven
by guys w/ coke spoons hanging from their rearview mirror, condom
dispensors
in on their dashboards, and gold chains around their neck. Miatas on
the other hand have people with smiles on their faces, enjoyment of
cornering in their hearts, and insurance savings in their pockets.
You decide :-).
Robert
Joshua Turner
jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
Depends. Is this going to be your only car? If so, the Mustang is a
better choice, period, end of sentence. The Miata is a blast to drive,
and nothing puts a smile on my face faster than cruisng around with the
top down. But as a daily driver, the Miata is a tremendous pain in the
ass. There's nowhere to hang your suit jacket. There's nowhere to put
your briefcase, if you've got more than a deck of playing cards in the
trunk. The trunk-mounted battery assures that if you put your suit
jacket in the trunk, you smell like battery for the rest of the day. The
light, quick and direct steering, which is such a joy on twisty roads,
becomes darty on the freeway. "Relaxed" and "freeway driving' should
never be used in the same sentence about the Miata--the engine's 3500
rpm wail gets tiring after about 10 minutes at 65 mph, and the wind and
road noise are truly awe-inspiring at those speeds. Plus, the plastic
rear window is about as transparent as a beer can, and in the winter,
the lack of a rear defroster makes a bad situation worse (mainly because
the snow on top of the car prevents you from putting the top down and
not having to look through the window).
Don't get me wrong--as I said before, I love the Miata, and applaud
Mazda for building it. But as an everyday car, it's a bad joke. The
Mustang, while not as much fun, will not pound you to death on your way
to work, and will allow you to buy more than 1 bag of groceries per trip
to the store.
Don't allow the countless flames I'm sure that this post will receive to
deceive you. It is easy to become entranced with the Miata, especially
after a couple of brief test drives. But living with one as your only
transport can kill the romance pretty quickly.
Joshua Turner
nos...@mdi.ca
In <heku.87...@snafu.muncca.fi>, on 09/11/97
at 03:22 AM, he...@snafu.muncca.fi (Henri Helanto) said:
>Jim Stoltz <jst...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>>Get a droptop Mustang, and modifiy the suspension so it handles
>>like a Miata.
> 'Not quite', should I say. It takes a lot of modifications for
> a Mustang to come close to the controllability and nimbleness
> of Miata and it's _much_ more difficult with a convertible.
Body stiffness is a problem with most if not all convertables, however...
SN95 Mustangs does have some extra stiffining directly from the factory...
and there are quite a bit of cheap add ons like suspension and sub-frame
connectors that can improve the handling quite a bit... with the Cobra's
suspension system, Mustang is already capable out handling Miatas in some
areas... swap a few pieces that don't viloate Solo II rules, you can pull
nearly 1G...
> Not that it could be done, but it might be a good idea to buy
Hum... I think you mean "not that it couldn't be done" right?
> a car that's a better starting point if handling is a prime
> concern.
Hummm... agreed...
nos...@mdi.ca
In <5v7mor$n...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, on 09/10/97
>jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
>> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
>> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
>> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>The new GT is a 4.6 liter, OBD-II computer'd, overpriced, slow, and theft
>prone shadow of it former self. The Miata is also now overpriced, and has
>an OBDII computer, but it has a high fun to insurance cost ratio.
With the new passive anti-thieft system, good luck in getting the car... I
believe there is a report that stated the total thief rate for a 6 month
period involving PATS equipted car is 2... yes TWO cars...
Also, most of the car thief can be prevented by the installation of an
anti-theif system and selecting a safe place to park... mind you, I don't
think Miata is any less thief prone... and OBDII is not all that strict
either... check out the supercharged Cobra... 400 HP.. WITH OBDII
>> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
>> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>> Which is the better car?
>If luggage capacity and insurance is not an issue, get the Mustang for
>luggage capacity and pimp factor, and the Miata for fun, cheap insurance,
>no luggage capacity.
"pimp factor"?
You'd better explain this one...
Henri Helanto
Jim Stoltz <jst...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Get a droptop Mustang, and modifiy the suspension so it handles
>like a Miata.
'Not quite', should I say. It takes a lot of modifications for
a Mustang to come close to the controllability and nimbleness
of Miata and it's _much_ more difficult with a convertible.
Not that it could be done, but it might be a good idea to buy
a car that's a better starting point if handling is a prime
concern.
-Henri
--
# Henri Helanto ; he...@muncca.fi ; hhel...@cc.hut.fi #
# Nissan Skyline GT-R ; '71 Corvette LS-6 ; GMC Typhoon ; etc...#
CAUTION: Before engaging mouth make sure that the brain is in gear.
Brian Hepler
Hear ye! Hear ye! Nick Horianopoulos <gr...@concentric.net>
proclaimed:
>> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
>> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>> Which is the better car?
Oh, now THERE is a question that needs qualifiers.
I bought my GT little more than a month ago, and I went through a
solid week of test driving everything that met my requirements. I
test drove what eventually was my car and a Miata M edition the same
day. I will constrain myself to impressions taken from the test
drives only, and I will not include my driving experiences over the
past month. Read on, fearless surfers...
>> Jonathan Simms
>They're both nice cars. The are both very different types of
<SNIP the well-written commentary>
>Nick
>"Enjoying his continuous-life crisis..."
>"Blue Zuzuni" '94 Miata, soon to be Turbo'ed, lowered, etc...
A lowered Miata? Sigh. Why not just go AROUND the 18 wheeler,
instead of under it? :-)
Okay, on with the show: I will admit right now that my opinion is, in
fact, my opinion, and all charges of being biased, opinionated, unfair
and irrational are probably true. The reason I make this statement is
that the salesman at the Miata place ticked me off. This man was
ignorant, clumsy, spoke poor English and kept pushing. That said, it
is a nice car.
Let's face it, people, both the Mustang and the Miata are good cars.
And like previous posters have said, they are culminations of two
different ideas. So, at the risk of comparing apples and oranges, the
choice comes down to what you are intending to do with the car. If
you just want to take it out on weekends and maybe pack an overnight
bag for a weekend at the cabin, the Miata is fine. Bear in mind, you
will have to put up with a trunk the size of a 8" deep pizza box, and
decapitation by 18 wheelers is a real threat. There is no room to put
anything in the cockpit other than a passenger and a pair of
sunglasses. Imagine driving this to work every day... <shudder>
Several people will make glowing comments about roadsters and how much
fun they are on long trips with the top down, etc. etc. etc. That's
great if you only drive your Miata on these trips: shop hops where you
need nothing more than a duffel bag. It is a great going-to-work car.
It will get you to work, staring at bumpers all the way. Forget about
such niceties as picking friends up from the airport, taking two
people out to lunch at work, and god help you if you have to move
anywhere.
That said, it was fun to drive, accelerated acceptably if you don't
expect too much, and it cornered rather well. I had a problem with
being eye-level with the sun visors and had to scrunch down to see
more than 30 feet in front of the car. However, it went zip when I
pressed on the accelerator, and it was pretty much point and shoot. I
liked it, but I don't want one. Why? Just read on.
I love my Mustang. I had a grin on my face for six hours after my
test drive. I did get the GT convertible, so top down was a necessary
component of the test drive. I had my brother and his girlfriend with
me as second and third opinions, and all four of us fit into the car
(try THAT in a Miata!) The Miata had zip? This had BANG. It was
supremely comfortable, roomy, accelerated better, handled well, had a
better sound system (not a deciding factor, I know) and a couple of
flat spots in the back with seat belts. The trunk was fairly large
for a convertible, and I can fit just about whatever I damn well
please in the cockpit. The Miata felt like a tight little machine
that you feed coffee in the morning to keep it wired and zippy all
day. The Mustang felt like a giant black panther that you wake up in
the morning and you lead it around on a leash until the road clears
up. Two concepts, two executions.
Now, my Mustang is not without drawbacks. It was more expensive, gets
slightly worse gas mileage, and it assuredly is harder to wax. But it
looks soooo much better. I have heard the claims that "there are a
shitload of Mustangs out there". If you're trying to be different,
have you seen how many Miatas are out there? Yes, you can lower a
Miata and put a spoiler on it and do whatever weird thing you want to
the engine. No offense guys, but a spoiler on a Miata just looks
ridiculous. At least on a Mustang these additions add some style.
Sum it up: Get the Mustang if you ever even consider needing the extra
room, or if looks are a factor in your decision. Taking clients to
lunch, picking up friends, carrying anything more that a three pack of
pizzas, get the 'stang. If you just want a go-to-work and
ride-in-the-country car, go for the Miata, just don't expect much
beyond that. They would both be good purchases, and fun to drive, but
I need more practicality, just in case.
Hope this helps.
Brian
****************************************
Brian Hepler bhe...@erols.com
"Come with me, Newt. Join the Dark Side
Together we can rule the galaxy."
- Jessie Helms
****************************************
Warren
The Sept/Oct issue of Street Power magazine features a Miata with a 5.0
stuffed in by Monster Motorsports. Slightly more than 300 HP at the
wheels and 163 MPH.
--
Warren Kurtz
Ford Ranger Fans On-Line
http://www.sky.net/~wkurtz/ranger.html
Marc
nos...@mdi.ca said:
>Mustang is already capable out handling Miatas in some
>areas... swap a few pieces that don't viloate Solo II rules, you can pull
>nearly 1G...
Which still doesn't make up for the tossability lost by the 1000 lb weight
difference.
removethisantispamtag Remy Triant
In article <8739189...@dejanews.com>, jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
I really don't think you'll go wrong with either car. And if you're
willing to do modifications either car can easily overcome the stock
limitations you mention. For the Miata there are turbo kits
(www.tristero.com/sa/business/bell/index.html) that will take 0-60 times
into the low 5s. For the Mustang you can go with a Griggs suspension
(www.griggsracing.com) that is such an incredible improvement that folks
here would never believe it if I told you what it could outhandle.
I own a Mustang of the 5 liter variety and I can tell you that they're
tough as nails. My understanding is that the newer ones are even better
especially from a fit and finish standpoint. Miata fans tell me that one
of the great things it has going for it is that it pretty much
bulletproof. So I don't think there's a reason NOT to buy one or the
other, just go with what makes you happiest on this one.
RT
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
>
RICHARD RHYMES
>
> >jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down
the
> >> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I
am
> >> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> >> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
I have read all the Mustang vs Miata comments and feel it necessary to add
my two cents worth. Most everyone's comments have been right on the money
- but it is a value driven decision here (and I'm not talking $$$).
The Miata is a roadster and as such it is not expected to have neck
snapping acceleration. It is expected to handle - to tear around a corner
so hard that it pulls your smile around on one side of your face - the
Miata does this well. No, it does not have a large trunk - but you can
rent larger vehicles (when you need one) for a nominal sum (and don't have
to pay for them in between). See, and you still have the little rocket for
the fun.
Yes, they are small, peculiar, impractical - but I love mine.
For the record I am pushing 50, happily married, also own a Toyota Pickup,
like to "stand on it" and over the years have owned: 1968 Olds 442 (400hp,
4 speed, 4.33:1 rear axle, etc), 85 Capri (5.0, airdams, fat tires, etc),
Alfa Romeo 1750 GT (while stationed in Europe), 1971 VW bug, etc......
If you want gut busting straight line performance and want to haul all your
friends around - buy the Mustang ----- if you like the twisty windy roads
and the song of a finely tune engine turned up to @ 6-7K (rpm) and the
finesse only a true roadster will allow you to feel - buy the Miata and
occasionally rent a station wagon.
Long but ..............
Nick Totoro
Henri Helanto wrote...
<<Mustangs still offer plenty of bang for the buck and are among
the best choices for great straight-line performance, but it takes a lot
more than a couple of aftermarket components to make them handle well.>>
I really don't know that I think it's fair to say they handle
poorly in stock form, but they aren't a match for a cart (then again...
few things are). They do feel a bit ponderous in stock form and
understeer quite a bit, but a driver has to change his technique a bit
and can account for that. Driving one stock back to back with a modified
car really lets you know what needs to be corrected, though.
I do agree on one account, however. You do need to make some
changes to the car to make them handle exceptionally, but it can be
done. It takes more than just a set of springs, bushings and shocks,
though. The key is making it handle great on the street. Anyone can make
a good track car from anything.
Personally, I don't agree with Griggs when they say all the big
problems are in the front. From my experience with two Mustangs, the
problem is definately in the rear. This isn't to disrespect Griggs or
anyone who owns their products, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
There are ways to make the car handle exceptionally and keep near stock
ride quality that, in my opinion, don't have the almost scary feel of
the Griggs for an awful lot less money. Now, I don't want any Grigg's
suspension owners going off half-cocked, this is just my experience.
The Kenny Brown products have worked very well for me. One thing,
though... if you deviate much from the suspension packages, expect
problems. Suspensions are done as packages for a reason...
Ultimately, the choice of car depends on what you want, not a few
newsgroups. I never personally had a thing for convertibles. I don't
really know why, though. This is convertibles in general, not Miatas in
particular. Miatas are more than a bit underpowered, but do handle very
well on the street or racing in parking lots.
Obviously, the lack of power isn't going to make it a great
part-time road racer, if that's your thing. There are solutions, but
none will give you the torque of a larger motor, unless the one solution
you choose is the Monter Miata. I believe it uses pretty much the entire
Mustang drivetrain. There's no way the stock rear and tranny could
handle the power in torque, even if they were geared appropriately
(remember they're geared for a 4banger).
The reason I went with my Cobra was that I knew the aftermarket was
there and race-proven. A Miata has never been one of my considerations,
however. It's not to be offensive, but I always associate Miata owners
with the snobby BMW owners that I loathe. Then again, I'm sure lots of
people associate Mustangs with pimply-faced high school kids who all
wear their hats backwards and pants that are too long and showing the
cracks of their a$$es. I'm more of a pony-car kind of guy, I suppose.
Ultimately, you can't make a Miata sound like a car with a small-block
or as quick/fast as one unless you actually put in a small block. The
Mustang handling problems can be fixed. Knowing that I didn't have to
live with the stock suspension made the choice an awful lot more clear
for me. I've gone from a '93GT to a '94 Cobra, which is an all-around
better car than the pre-'94 cars.
Nick
______________________________________________________________
#6, #99 & #94 in the quest for the Cup!
Owner, 1994 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra #728
My home away from home... http://ntotoro.home.mindspring.com/
______________________________________________________________
Nick Horianopoulos
Not quite. If we're talking about a '94 and up Mustang, the difference
is only around 700 pounds, still plenty of bulk to be taking to a
handling contest.
It's around 1000 lbs if you are talking about the Fox-bodied Mustangs,
which weighed around 3,200 to 3,300, depending on which model you drove.
--
Nick
"Enjoying his continuous-life crisis..."
"Blue Zuzuni" '94 Miata, soon to be Turbo'ed, lowered, etc...
Vist the demented world of Nick Horianopoulos
at: http://www.concentric.net/~greek
Chris Mauritz
Warren (wku...@sky.net) wrote:
:
: The Sept/Oct issue of Street Power magazine features a Miata with a 5.0
: stuffed in by Monster Motorsports. Slightly more than 300 HP at the
: wheels and 163 MPH.
What did they have to do to the little thing to stuff that motor
in it? I'm sure the cost was rather high as you'd have to do
quite a bit of shoring up on the chassis.
Chris
--
----------------------------+--------------------------------
Christopher Mauritz | This space reserved for some
maur...@spcunb.spc.edu | future witty saying.
----------------------------+--------------------------------
Henri Helanto
nos...@mdi.ca writes:
>Body stiffness is a problem with most if not all convertables, however...
Make that 'all but very few tube-framed examples'. Even the
911 convertible feels wobbly, especially when compared to
the coupe model.
>SN95 Mustangs does have some extra stiffining directly from the factory...
>and there are quite a bit of cheap add ons like suspension and sub-frame
>connectors that can improve the handling quite a bit...
With all due respect, they're more or less like healing a shotgun
wound with band-aid. Mustangs still offer plenty of bang for the
buck and are among the best choices for great straight-line
performance, but it takes a lot more than a couple of aftermarket
components to make them handle well.
>with the Cobra's
>suspension system, Mustang is already capable out handling Miatas in some
>areas... swap a few pieces that don't viloate Solo II rules, you can pull
>nearly 1G...
Maximum lateral acceleration tells very little about anything else
than the width and stickiness of the tires. Slalom speed tells
a bit more and comparing numbers doesn't make much sense unless
we're talking about lap times on track and take bhp/torque in
consideration.
(Heck, my SUV is capable of .82G with current tires and it handles
like s**t... ;)
>Hum... I think you mean "not that it couldn't be done" right?
Oops. Yep, correct.
Brent A. Peterson
Brian Hepler wrote:
> I had a problem with
> being eye-level with the sun visors and had to scrunch down to see
> more than 30 feet in front of the car.
I didn't have that problem, the top of the windshield
is at chin level for me. But then again I couldn't drive
the miata anyway since my left leg was pinned in place.
It, by far has the least room in the driver's seat of
any car I have been in.
As far as RWD 2 doors with MT go fit and comfort alone
narrowed the choices to Mustang for me.
Email:\peterson\@armour.iit.edu\ (remove anti-spam \'s)
'73 Ford Maverick / '97 Mustang GT
Stuart Hall
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:38:35 -0400, Joshua Turner <sh...@umich.edu>
wrote:
>Depends. Is this going to be your only car? If so, the Mustang is a
>better choice, period, end of sentence.
Nope. I sucks in the snow worse than anything out there. except a
Trans Am. :-)
> The Miata is a blast to drive,
>and nothing puts a smile on my face faster than cruisng around with the
>top down. But as a daily driver, the Miata is a tremendous pain in the
>ass.
Yep.
> There's nowhere to hang your suit jacket.
Yep.
> There's nowhere to put
>your briefcase, if you've got more than a deck of playing cards in the
>trunk.
How big is your deck of cards? I have gotten 6 bags of groceries in
that trunk. *Plus* my Lands-End breifcase. You can't be afraid to
smoosh stuff a little, tho. Plus there is always the Passenger seat
if you aren't carrying another human.
> The trunk-mounted battery assures that if you put your suit
>jacket in the trunk, you smell like battery for the rest of the day.
Nope. My battery doesn't leak, and doesn't smell either. Perhaps
it's not battery leakage you are smelling (BO?)?
> The
>light, quick and direct steering, which is such a joy on twisty roads,
>becomes darty on the freeway.
Yes, but would you ever say a Formula car is not good at high speeds?
They are similarly darty at higher than 65 mph, it just takes more
skill and concentration. Read: you can't drive with a donut in one
hand and cup of coffee in the other.
> "Relaxed" and "freeway driving' should
>never be used in the same sentence about the Miata
Not really in any other car either. Pay attention!
>--the engine's 3500
>rpm wail gets tiring after about 10 minutes at 65 mph, and the wind and
>road noise are truly awe-inspiring at those speeds.
This must be from someone used to lumping along at 1500 rpm on the
highway. Anyone used to driving a 4 cylinder car will feel perfectly
happy with the rpms the engine turns on the highway. Not too noisy
either, except with the top down when it is admittedly a bit windy.
If you don't want the wind, a) don't put the top down or b) don't get
a convertible.
>Plus, the plastic
>rear window is about as transparent as a beer can
Only if you try to clean it with Windex or any window cleaner. It
states clearly in the Owner's manual to protect the rear window from
"frosting" you should not clean it with anything but water. No
sponges either - they scratch. Ours is almost as clear as the day we
bought it, almost 5 years later including 4 years not being garaged.
>, and in the winter,
>the lack of a rear defroster makes a bad situation worse (mainly because
>the snow on top of the car prevents you from putting the top down and
>not having to look through the window).
That's what the Hard Tops are for. If you live in a snowy/frosty
climate you need two things (actually 5)... the hardtop option and a
full set of snow tires.
>
>Don't get me wrong--as I said before, I love the Miata, and applaud
>Mazda for building it. But as an everyday car, it's a bad joke. The
>Mustang, while not as much fun, will not pound you to death on your way
>to work, and will allow you to buy more than 1 bag of groceries per trip
>to the store.
>
>Don't allow the countless flames I'm sure that this post will receive to
>deceive you.
You asked for it. The Mustang is not an easy car to live with either.
At $28 to fill the tank up, it gets expensive quickly. Tires are very
easy to torch with all the tourque, and they get pretty steep too.
> It is easy to become entranced with the Miata, especially
>after a couple of brief test drives. But living with one as your only
>transport can kill the romance pretty quickly.
I won't disagree that the Miata should probably be relegated to 2nd
car status some of the time. You can't go windsurfing with one, you
can't really trailer a Motorcycle to the races, you can't carry any
lumber home from Home Depot etc. etc. But I don't think you find many
people who will argue that this car provides more smiles per mile per
dollar spent than anything out there. Perhaps the Lotus Elise, but we
can't get that here in the States.
Regards,
Stuart
93 Miata (Red, of course)
93 Vw Passat GLX
*LEGAL NOTICE TO ALL BULK E-MAILERS* Pursuant to US
Code,Title 7,Chapter 5,Subchapter II,227,all
nonsolicited commercial Email sent to this address
is subject to a download & archival fee in the
amount of $500US. E-mailing to this address for
commercial purposes denotes acceptance of these
terms. Violators will be prosecuted to the
maximum extent of the law.
Chuck Tomlinson
maur...@spcunb.spc.edu (Chris Mauritz) wrote:
>Warren (wku...@sky.net) wrote:
>:
>: The Sept/Oct issue of Street Power magazine features a Miata with a 5.0
>: stuffed in by Monster Motorsports. Slightly more than 300 HP at the
>: wheels and 163 MPH.
>
>What did they have to do to the little thing to stuff that motor
>in it? I'm sure the cost was rather high as you'd have to do
>quite a bit of shoring up on the chassis.
Custom motor mounts and exhaust, but no major structural mods, IIRC.
A Ford 302 is a very compact engine, and from pictures I've seen,
fits easily into the Miata's engine bay.
--
Chuck Tomlinson
nos...@mdi.ca
In <01bcbeaf$68985820$26b7...@RHYMERK.msfc.nasa.gov>, on 09/11/97
>The Miata is a roadster and as such it is not expected to have neck
>snapping acceleration. It is expected to handle - to tear around a corner
>so hard that it pulls your smile around on one side of your face - the
>Miata does this well. No, it does not have a large trunk - but you can
>rent larger vehicles (when you need one) for a nominal sum (and don't have
>to pay for them in between). See, and you still have the little rocket for
>the fun.
>Yes, they are small, peculiar, impractical - but I love mine.
And people are saying Mustangs are small, peculiar and impractical... <G>
>If you want gut busting straight line performance and want to haul all your
>friends around - buy the Mustang ----- if you like the twisty windy roads
>and the song of a finely tune engine turned up to @ 6-7K (rpm) and the
>finesse only a true roadster will allow you to feel - buy the Miata and
>occasionally rent a station wagon.
Ah, but with the newer SOHC, you can pull all the way up to 6K with GT and
with the DOHC, I don't 7K is too hard to get, provided you have the guts to
push it there (some people, ie my parents, don't ever push the engine over
4K, NEVER... :) )
And Mustangs instead of pulling your smile to one side of your face, it
pulls the smile all the way back to your ear... <G>
Matt DeBoer
Here's something else to think about: INSURANCE.
I just traded my '94 Accord EX for a '94 M-Edition and my insurance
went DOWN 20%. I was surprised as hell. I'd hate to find out what it
would have been on a Mustang.
Eric Hodges
If you test drove both cars and you still can't make a decision, buy the
Mustang.
I read all the posts on this subject and have seen all of the complaints
about the "weaknesses" of the Miata. I guess the only reason they've
never bothered me is because I fell in love with it so hard the first
time my butt hit the seat. I never feel like I need more room, or more
power (like it maybe, but not need it), or better traction in snow.
Well, I live in Houston, there is no snow. But my point is, it seems
like you have to love a Miata a lot for it to be right for you. Miata
people know who they are when they see a Miata.
My Miata is my only car. I get to drive it everyday. When it isn't
raining or 100 degrees, the top is down. When I think about other cars
I will buy in the future, they are all smaller, lighter and more
exposed. I don't think I'll ever buy a larger car, at least not as a
daily driver.
Mustangs seem like great cars, especially with the right modifications.
But I've never really considered buying one. Just not my kind of car.
Eric Hodges
96M "PIZZI-5"
Eric Hodges
Joshua Turner wrote:
>
> Depends. Is this going to be your only car? If so, the Mustang is a
> and nothing puts a smile on my face faster than cruisng around with the
> top down. But as a daily driver, the Miata is a tremendous pain in the
> ass.
It's all how you look at it.
> There's nowhere to hang your suit jacket.
OK, so if I had a place to hang it, would I have to wear a suit? Gak.
No thanks.
> There's nowhere to put
> your briefcase, if you've got more than a deck of playing cards in the
> trunk.
My what? Who needs a briefcase when I've got a Miata with a perfectly
fine trunk?
> The trunk-mounted battery assures that if you put your suit
> jacket in the trunk, you smell like battery for the rest of the day.
Seriously, check the venting if this happens. The battery should be
vented to the exterior. I've never smelled anything "battery like" in
my trunk.
> The
> light, quick and direct steering, which is such a joy on twisty roads,
> becomes darty on the freeway. "Relaxed" and "freeway driving' should
> never be used in the same sentence about the Miata--the engine's 3500
> rpm wail gets tiring after about 10 minutes at 65 mph, and the wind and
> road noise are truly awe-inspiring at those speeds.
Darty? Wail? Have those checked, too. My Miata has never seemed
"darty" on the freeway, and there is no 3500rpm wail. There is lots of
wind and road noise when the top is down.
> Plus, the plastic
> rear window is about as transparent as a beer can, and in the winter,
> the lack of a rear defroster makes a bad situation worse (mainly because
> the snow on top of the car prevents you from putting the top down and
> not having to look through the window).
Snow? Whazzat? And my rear window is as transparent as a, um, well, a
window.
> Don't get me wrong--as I said before, I love the Miata, and applaud
> Mazda for building it. But as an everyday car, it's a bad joke. The
> Mustang, while not as much fun, will not pound you to death on your way
> to work, and will allow you to buy more than 1 bag of groceries per trip
> to the store.
Agreed. The trunk is tiny. And rough roads can make for painful
driving.
> Don't allow the countless flames I'm sure that this post will receive to
> deceive you. It is easy to become entranced with the Miata, especially
> after a couple of brief test drives. But living with one as your only
> transport can kill the romance pretty quickly.
Disagreed. I've been driving mine everyday for the past year and a
half. The romance is still alive. Today the temperature dropped a few
degrees and it gave me such a thrill. I still wash her every week, wax
her once a month. I still look back at her when I leave her in a
parking lot. I still perk up in the mornings when I remember I get to
drive her to work. Some days it's the only thing that gets me in.
I believe it's genetic. Some people are Miata people. Some aren't.
Eric Hodges
96M "PIZZI-5"
removethisantispamtag Remy Triant
In article <3417F9...@mindspring.com>, Nick Totoro
<nto...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> There are ways to make the car handle exceptionally and keep near stock
> ride quality that, in my opinion, don't have the almost scary feel of
> the Griggs for an awful lot less money.
Wow. I've heard from quite a few Griggs owners and I have never heard
anything except the total opposite of this. I'm having the rear installed
next week so I'll guess I'll being seeing for myself.
> The Kenny Brown products have worked very well for me.
I've heard from two Griggs owners who use to run Kenny Brown suspensions
and according to them the two are universes apart. I've never driven a KB
car but I was looking at the components on one up on a rack. They looked
very spindly next to the Grigg's setup.
> Ultimately, you can't make a Miata sound like a car with a small-block
> or as quick/fast as one unless you actually put in a small block.
What about a turbo kit? BEG claims 0-60s in the very low 5s. That's
quite a bit quicker than my stock 5.0.
>The
> Mustang handling problems can be fixed. Knowing that I didn't have to
> live with the stock suspension made the choice an awful lot more clear
> for me.
That's why I chose a Mustang. Every performance aspect of this car can be
upgraded to extremely high levels for a reasonable price.
John Weir
Jim Carr (j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu) wrote:
: nos...@mdi.ca writes:
: >
: >... and OBDII is not all that strict
: >either... check out the supercharged Cobra... 400 HP.. WITH OBDII
: OBDII added about 5 hp to the Miata with no other changes.
: What people don't like is that it tells the dealer how you
: have been driving the car. Not that you have any choice,
: except how you drove it for the last 100 miles.
Will disconnecting the battery erase the memory?
I know that the older ECUs in cars that store codes referencing
malfunctioning components can be erased by disconnecting the
battery.
Jis wonderin'
John
Robert Allen
Chris Mauritz wrote:
>
> Warren (wku...@sky.net) wrote:
> :
> : The Sept/Oct issue of Street Power magazine features a Miata with a 5.0
> : stuffed in by Monster Motorsports. Slightly more than 300 HP at the
> : wheels and 163 MPH.
>
> What did they have to do to the little thing to stuff that motor
> in it? I'm sure the cost was rather high as you'd have to do
> quite a bit of shoring up on the chassis.
Yes, it's just under $20k for the drivetrain upgrade, and that
does not include different tires or wheels, or wider fenders to
deal with them.
Robert
roy stafford
You can hang your suit jacket (or dry cleaning) on the roof support near
the passenger door (assuming the roof is up).
And if you are looking for the 'Freeway Cruiser', neither car is a good
choice.
-Roy
Henri Helanto
Nick Totoro <nto...@mindspring.com> writes:
> I really don't know that I think it's fair to say they handle
>poorly in stock form, but they aren't a match for a cart (then again...
>few things are). They do feel a bit ponderous in stock form and
>understeer quite a bit, but a driver has to change his technique a bit
>and can account for that. Driving one stock back to back with a modified
>car really lets you know what needs to be corrected, though.
Definitely. I wouldn't worry that much about snap oversteer
(unlike in GM F-bodies) rather than the tendency to plough
and considerable camber change through the suspension travel.
Plenty of unsprung weight has to be removed too.
<...>
> The Kenny Brown products have worked very well for me. One thing,
>though... if you deviate much from the suspension packages, expect
>problems. Suspensions are done as packages for a reason...
That's true. Mismatching the front and rear may result in very
unpredictable handling. It's over six years since I sold my
Mustang but I still can remember the 'joy' of solid rear axle
and associated problems. The only reasons I can think of for
retaining it are cost and that drag racers aren't too fond of
IRS - strong IRS rearend and driveshafts tend to cost an arm
and a leg and still not be quite as bulletproof as relatively
cheap, prepped solid rear axles.
> Ultimately, the choice of car depends on what you want, not a few
>newsgroups.
;-) Summer '94 I asked opinions about which car I should buy
(AWD, 2l++ turbocharger engine, manual transmission and most
importantly, great handling) and asked what people think about
Skyline GT-R. You can't believe how many tried to talk me off
it to RUF911C4, Audi S2 etc. but after some test driving I was
convinced - and I've never regretted my decision.
After that I've taken literally all suggestions on the net with
a grain of salt; never let anyone make decisions for you.
Jim Carr
Nothing personal, but if this is a troll for addresses for spam
from hotmail, note what is in my signature file below.
jons...@hotmail.com writes:
>
>I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
>field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
>having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
>better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
Documentation can be found in the current results from Topeka for
the 25th Annual Tire Rack SCCA Solo II National Championships.
B Stock is all Miatas (except for a BMW 328is that is 46/58, I don't
know why the Porsche was a no show) and is led by a 95 (52.829) and
a 94 R (52.874). In contrast, the 95 Mustang Cobra is second in the
F Stock (V8 muscle car) class with a 56.704, behind a 92 Camaro with
a 56.463. The Mustang is behind the 46th place B Stock BMW.
That is what it means to have a car handle. The situation would
be reversed if you look at 1/4 mile times, although I don't know
(or much care) what those are.
>Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
>So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>Which is the better car?
The only advice I can give you is to seek therapy. ;-) Mustang
owners will tell you the Mustang, Miata owners will say Miata,
and those who own both will answer based on whichever of their
two personalities is dominant at the moment. =8-0 I would take
the Shelby Cobra that is in production again, but that's not 20 k$.
I'll settle for a Miata with a second set of wheels with racing
rubber on them since I like roadster-style convertibles since I
first saw Route 66 and it can be autocrossed as a daily driver.
One suggestion: Repeat the test drives, but visit the dealers
in the opposite order. Repeat each weekend until you decide.
Along the way, evaluate your use for the car (long trips with
lots of luggage do not favor the Miata, commutes on winding
tree-lined canopy roads do), bring along a typical suitcase
you use for a weekend trip on your test drive, and make up a
two-column list on a legal pad of the pluses and minuses of
each car which you can either count up or rank.
Other suggestion: Do more homework. Look at what Consumer's
Reports says. Look at the blue book for a comparably equiped
car that is one year old (a 97 bought today is a year-old car
tomorrow) and four years old. Ask your insurance agent what
you will pay to insure the car, and why. All of the above will
be "costs" (repair, depreciation, insurance) you incur in
addition to the monthly payments.
Finally, I hope you have talked to your bank or CU as well as
the dealer when looking at financing it.
--
James A. Carr <j...@scri.fsu.edu> | Commercial e-mail is _NOT_
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.
Jim Carr
I wrote:
>
> B Stock is all Miatas (except for a BMW 328is that is 46/58, I don't
> know why the Porsche was a no show) and is led by a 95 (52.829) and
> a 94 R (52.874). In contrast, the 95 Mustang Cobra is second in the
> F Stock (V8 muscle car) class with a 56.704, behind a 92 Camaro with
> a 56.463. The Mustang is behind the 46th place B Stock BMW.
Oops. Just checked the C Stock results and the North course is
about 3 seconds faster than tha South course -- so the difference
is about 1 second between the Miata and the fastest Mustang. A
bit more believable based on past years.
Steve French
High theft rate on Accords....Thats why it went down
Matt DeBoer <ma...@wsnet.com> wrote in article <5va0ba$9...@ns.wsnet.com>...
Leon van Dommelen
nos...@mdi.ca (nos...@mdi.ca) writes...
Gobble (:-<>)
>Ah, but with the newer SOHC, you can pull all the way up to 6K with GT and
>with the DOHC, I don't 7K is too hard to get, provided you have the guts to
>push it there (some people, ie my parents, don't ever push the engine over
>4K, NEVER... :) )
Your parents are OK. I let a friend at my place of work drive my
Miata, and he was driving it in the city at 1,500 rpm in 5th
gear. I did not know it could be done ;) I had a heck of a time
trying to keep him above 2,000.
He drives a stick shift himself (a Honda, I think) and I impressed
upon him that modern engines like some rpm. When I saw him in
the corridor later, he had limited himself to 4th gear in the city,
finding 3th a bit excessive. I guess I may have saved a Honda,
for better or for worse ;)
Leon
Non-Miata newsgroups snipped. Reduce SPAM, velveeta, and flames!
--
Leon van Dommelen. *I am not responsible for what I say*
MCA 62542 '96 white PEP Sebring Miata: Bozo
domm...@Zmiata.Znet http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~dommelen
!Remove the "Z"s from my E-mail address when responding!
Jim Carr
nos...@mdi.ca writes:
>
>SN95 Mustangs does have some extra stiffining directly from the factory...
>and there are quite a bit of cheap add ons like suspension and sub-frame
>connectors that can improve the handling quite a bit...
Not if you are going to stay in Solo II stock as suggested below.
>with the Cobra's
>suspension system, Mustang is already capable out handling Miatas in some
>areas... swap a few pieces that don't viloate Solo II rules, you can pull
>nearly 1G...
Oddly enough, the top stock car in last year's G circle competition
was Miata with 1.03 g IIRC. However, the ability to hold that in a
circle is less important than transient response. That may be why
the stock Miata is 4 seconds faster than a stock Mustang Cobra,
albeit on slightly diffrent courses. We will see tomorrow. Usually
FS is a few seconds slower than the Miata's.
Locally, the Mustangs prefer SP where they can do the things
listed in the first paragraph above.
Jim Carr
nos...@mdi.ca writes:
>
>... and OBDII is not all that strict
>either... check out the supercharged Cobra... 400 HP.. WITH OBDII
OBDII added about 5 hp to the Miata with no other changes.
What people don't like is that it tells the dealer how you
have been driving the car. Not that you have any choice,
except how you drove it for the last 100 miles.
--
Marc
nos...@mdi.ca said:
>Ah, but with the newer SOHC, you can pull all the way up to 6K with GT and
>with the DOHC, I don't 7K is too hard to get, provided you have the guts to
I'm assuming there is supposed to be a strategically placed "think" i tha
above (it is left as an exercise to the reader to guess where).
>push it there (some people, ie my parents, don't ever push the engine over
>4K, NEVER... :) )
Has enyone else noticed this? My mom bought a high reving DOHC 2.0 4-cyl,
and it never gets above 4k when she drives. I wound it up a couple of
times getting on a freeway or such, and I think she was about to blow her
head gasket (Mom, not the car). I tried (in vain) to convince her that the
redline is the maximum point where the car can be continuously opperated
without damage. She thinks it is some sort of built-in self destruct
mechanism. Well, I'm just happy that a retired person of her age is still
willing to buy a manual.
company
> There's nowhere to hang your suit jacket.
Hang it on the passenger seat. That's where I keep mine. :^)
There's nowhere to put
> your briefcase, if you've got more than a deck of playing cards in the
> trunk.
Put it on the floorboard in the passenger side. That's where I keep mine. :^}
The trunk-mounted battery assures that if you put your suit
> jacket in the trunk, you smell like battery for the rest of the day.
No argument here.
The
> light, quick and direct steering, which is such a joy on twisty roads,
> becomes darty on the freeway. "Relaxed" and "freeway driving' should
> never be used in the same sentence about the Miata--the engine's 3500
> rpm wail gets tiring after about 10 minutes at 65 mph, and the wind and
> road noise are truly awe-inspiring at those speeds.
What's a freeway? :^P
and will allow you to buy more than 1 bag of groceries per trip
> to the store.
I've fit barbecue fixins and supplies for 8 people, along with a week's worth
of groceries, in my Miata. Just have to utilize creative packing techniques.
>
> Don't allow the countless flames I'm sure that this post will receive to
> deceive you. It is easy to become entranced with the Miata, especially
> after a couple of brief test drives. But living with one as your only
> transport can kill the romance pretty quickly.
No flames, just disagreement on some points.
Scott and Woody, who kinda misses being subscribed to the mailing list.
--
'96 LP
MCA member #60732
Team Voodoo, Hard Dog, Stripes, CRI, and Rev-limiter
**************************************************
* Wind in my hair, shifting and drifting *
* mechanical music, adrenaline surge.. *
**************************************************
Doug Barnes
Forg wrote:
>
> jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> > field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> > having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> > better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
> >
> > So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> > Which is the better car?
>
> Well, you get used to power quite quickly, but a quick gearchange with a
> perfect-feeling line on a corner is always fun. So you've gotta decide
> whether you'll get annoyed with the Miata not having enough power ...
> because if not, it will stay the most fun.
>
> Now, I think a lot of people out there would get annoyed with the
> relative lack of power. I don't think I could step back to a Miata, even
> though it'd handle better than my car.
>
> Are there enough corners near you to extract that kind of fun from it?
> Are you going to race it in any way? If yes to both of these, go Miata;
> otherwise, maybe the Mustang.
>
> --
> Forg! -=DUH#6=- (Y1)
> "To Err is Human. To Flame is Divine."
It's probably easier to make the Mustang handle than the Miata perform.
--
Remove the NOSPAM to E-mail me. Tired of the MLM schemes.
Doug Hoy
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:21:46 -0600, jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
>field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
>having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
>better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
>Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
>So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
>Which is the better car?
Well, Jonathan, you seem to have started one of the best threads on
the Mustang-Miata war--lots of good info, and no car or people
bashing. Good stuff!
I'm going to respond a little differently. You want to buy a new car.
A 'sports' car. You can't decide what to buy--understandable, it's a
big investment. Problem is, you have defined the answer to your
dilemma as knowing what 'the better car' is. The response from the
newsgroup has been as helpful as can be, but it really has nothing to
do with your problem. Solid axles, engine wail, etc. are not the
point. Simply put, what are you trying to buy? You should be buying
the values that the car companies build in when they design and market
the things. Those values are things like:
-nostalgia for my old Triumph Spitfire
-perfect balance between go, stop, and turn
-that "Born in the USA" feeling the Boss sings about
-the bulging lines that speak of power
-beating the other guy at the stoplight
-beating the other guy in the twisties
-admiring shouts from the neighbourhood kids
-admiring glances from lonely young models
...you get the picture. It's what you get out of your cars that
matters, not what the shop manual says. You have told us nothing about
your buying behaviour. Some people pick a particular brand because
everybody else does. Some because it's rationally the best value for
the money. Some want other people to admire them for their taste,
sporty life style, dangerousness. Some (maybe you) are afraid of
buying something that isn't the best or the latest--they always want
the best (marketers have lots of after-sale validation for these
people). Some just want to get laid.
Marketers know lots of other reasons. Look at their TV ads with the
sound turned off. Is it Fred who strikes fear into the hearts of the
townsfolk with his dust-raising car? Or the Cherokee driver that gets
through everything imaginable to pull into the driveway of the dream
house? Cars solved transportation years ago. Now they cater to our
fantasies, dreams, statements to the world who we are. Read "Sex in
the Snow" if you want to know how easily we are typecast.
So it's not what's the best car--they're all good cars--it's who you
are. This can generally be measured in a good long test drive by 'the
smile factor', as the man said. If it pushes your buttons, it's the
best car.
I was once driving off-road in the Klondike swamp in my old Suzuki
Samuri, trying not to capsize as I crossed the ditches, when I met a
young guy who told me that he used to have a Sam too, but he couldn't
stand it. So he sold it and bought a Fiero, which he really liked.
Doug
Brad Sloan
On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Eric Hodges wrote:
> > Depends. Is this going to be your only car? If so, the Mustang is a
> > better choice, period, end of sentence. The Miata is a blast to drive,
> > and nothing puts a smile on my face faster than cruisng around with the
> > top down. But as a daily driver, the Miata is a tremendous pain in the
> > ass.
>
> It's all how you look at it.
Have to agree with Eric here. The Miata as a daily driver is a
pain in nothing on my anatomy, but I am infamous with those who know me
well as The World's Lightest Packer for trips. If it doesn't either fit
in one bag or lay nicely on top of the bag, then I very seriously evaluate
whether or not it's necessary. I despise carrying large amounts of Stuff
anywhere. So for me, as well as quite a few less neurotic light-packers,
the Miata's trunk is entirely sufficient.
> > There's nowhere to hang your suit jacket.
Lying on top of my bag in the trunk.
> > There's nowhere to put
> > your briefcase, if you've got more than a deck of playing cards in the
> > trunk.
Behind the passenger seat. Or even in the trunk, which still has
a bit of room left over, even with two carrying bags and a suit.
> > The trunk-mounted battery assures that if you put your suit
> > jacket in the trunk, you smell like battery for the rest of the day.
>
> Seriously, check the venting if this happens. The battery should be
> vented to the exterior. I've never smelled anything "battery like" in
> my trunk.
Eric's right, no battery odors have been found on anything of
mine, but I do question the neccessity of mounting it in the trunk.
Benefits:
1.) No more popping that annoying hood when you need a
jump!
2.) Shifting the Cg 0.32" towards the rear really makes
the handling what it is! (Disclaimer: NO, I have not
done any calculations. 0.32" is approximate)
Disadvantages:
1.) You have to pop that annoying trunk when you need a
jump!
2.) When smuggling midgets into the drive-in, you have to
make sure that they don't smoke.
> > The
> > light, quick and direct steering, which is such a joy on twisty roads,
> > becomes darty on the freeway.
Actually, when you get used to it, the steering response is
entirely comfortable on the freeway.
> > "Relaxed" and "freeway driving' should
> > never be used in the same sentence about the Miata--the engine's 3500
> > rpm wail gets tiring after about 10 minutes at 65 mph, and the wind and
> > road noise are truly awe-inspiring at those speeds.
Hmmm, at reasonable interstate speeds, the Miata is actually
turning about 4100-4300 rpm. But you really don't notice the engine sound
with all the wind noise. :)
> > Don't get me wrong--as I said before, I love the Miata, and applaud
> > Mazda for building it. But as an everyday car, it's a bad joke. The
> > Mustang, while not as much fun, will not pound you to death on your way
> > to work, and will allow you to buy more than 1 bag of groceries per trip
> > to the store.
Just as with any car, you have to consider the trade-offs. The
Miata is not for everyone, certainly - and for most of the reasons that
you have mentioned here.
Brad Sloan
Clemson University
Clemson, SC
Fiancee's car (very soon to be mine to myself) - '97 Montego Blue Touring
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Matt DeBoer wrote:
> Here's something else to think about: INSURANCE.
> I just traded my '94 Accord EX for a '94 M-Edition and my insurance
> went DOWN 20%. I was surprised as hell. I'd hate to find out what it
>
> would have been on a Mustang.
>
> ma...@wsnet.com
My insurance is the same on my Mustang as it was on my Dodge Ram. Why
would ANYone willingly drive a Miata? If I decided on a Mazda over a
Mustang, it would at least be an RX 7.
--
89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
SureGrip
65 Thunderbird Town Landau FE390
It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited
commercial email per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.
I assess a US $500 charge for reviewing & deleting each
unsolicited commercial email. Sending unsolicited commercial
email to my email address denotes acceptance of these terms.
My posting messages to UseNet neither grants consent to receiving
nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
To Reply, remove the NOSPAM and send.
dan
My Mom frequently takes her Altima above 4k and has taken it above 5k
many times. Not really intentionally, she just has a heavy foot. It's
doens't bother her at all since she actually knows what the redline
means. My Dad on the other hand......
>
> Marc
> For email, remove second "y" from Gum...@tamu.edu
--
-Dan
"No noble cause is worth dying for
Nothing matters when you are no more"
-Cat Rapes Dog
mi...@ibm.net
Matt DeBoer wrote:
>
> Here's something else to think about: INSURANCE.
> I just traded my '94 Accord EX for a '94 M-Edition and my insurance
> went DOWN 20%. I was surprised as hell. I'd hate to find out what it
> would have been on a Mustang.
>
> ma...@wsnet.com
>
I've owned Mustangs and Miatas. The Miata is much cheaper to insure in
my case. (Maybe if I had bought the 6cyl or even the older 4cyl Mustangs
the difference wouldn't have been as great, but to me the V8 was the
only way to go in a Mustang; so, I paid for it.)
Brad Sloan
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Marc wrote:
> Has enyone else noticed this? My mom bought a high reving DOHC 2.0 4-cyl,
> and it never gets above 4k when she drives. I wound it up a couple of
> times getting on a freeway or such, and I think she was about to blow her
> head gasket (Mom, not the car). I tried (in vain) to convince her that the
> redline is the maximum point where the car can be continuously opperated
> without damage.
No kidding! My fiancee never intentionally exceeds 4K either! I
think there must be some sort of high-frequency noise in all
internal-combustion engines at 4K that causes a warning to go off in some
folks' heads. Each time she's riding when I'm driving, I always get,
"Does doing that hurt my car?" Sheesh.
Once, I was trying to get her to pass another car quickly by
using the most of the Miata's small powerband. If you don't see at least
6K, that car isn't going anywhere quickly. So, she downshifted
beautifully (even a little throttle stab on the downshift! I was
impressed...), but kind of forgot to upshift once we hit 7K. I couldn't
help but laugh hysterically as she got extremely flustered by the behavior
of the rev limiter. "Did I break my car?"
mi...@ibm.net
Jim Carr wrote:
>
> >Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
> >So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> >Which is the better car?
>
Jim offers good advice. If I was you I would take his advice. Also,
Check out what support the cars have on the net. The internet wasn't big
when I had my Mustang; so, I don't know any good sights for the
Mustangs, but I'm sure somebody can point you to some good ones. For the
Miata just go to http//www.miata.net.
Here's my perspective on the two cars:
I had an 88 5.0 LX Mustang, and I currently have a 96 Miata with the
Popular Equipment Package. I love both cars. There are 2 reasons I have
the Miata now and not the Mustang. For me the Miata is much more fun and
is much less expensive to maintain.
While I loved the power I had in the Mustang, but once I got to speed,
it really wasn't much more fun than a sedan. Top down in a Miata is a
whole different story. I experience much more of the environment around
me. (Note: This is a plus in my view though others may consider this a
detriment. e.g. when your stuck behind a big rig blowing heavy diesil
smoke.) To me, the feeling and sounds of an open roadster are wonderful
compared to the muscle I had closed up in my Mustang.(note: you could
get a convertible Mustang but price starts to become a factor.) The
people around me seem to pick up on this "wonderful" feeling. Everyone I
know smiles and says something like "great car" when they see me drive
up in my Miata. I never got comments about the Mustang. It not that I
bought the Miata to be noticed, but I mentioned it to try to convey the
feeling I get from driving and owning it. This is the most fun I've ever
had driving/owning a car.
As for expenses. I spent a bunch more money maintaining my Mustang. I
bought gas for it twice a week. Most of the maintainence items were
"performance" and cost a little more. (e.g. sparkplugs, tires, etc...)
And as for reliability, the Mustang I had wasn't even in the Miata's
league. (Those of you with the latest models may beg to differ. I don't
know how the latest models fair.) The Mustang I had was back at the
dealer for repairs the week after I got it. The oil sending unit failed.
The power door locks failed. The fuel pump died one year after I bought
the car. The headlight seals cracked and fogged up. The car always
pulled to the left even after repeated alignments. The speedo fluttered
even after the dealer had "fixed" it multiple times. The list goes on.
This is all stuff that failed in the first two years. I drove the car
for 60,000 miles and traded it in on a truck. :-(
The Miata has been on the exact opposite end of the spectrum for
maintainence. I've had the car for exactly 1 year and have had 0
problems. I've driven the car 22,000 miles and the only thing I've had
to do to the car is scheduled oil/air filter changes. This car has taken
everthing I could dish out. It gets great gas mileage; so, that cost is
down from the Mustang. And for me there was a huge difference in
insurance cost. The Miata was far less to insure.
While I'm here let me talk a little about practicality. If you are used
to hauling stuff around in a hatchback car and can't live without that
feature, then you will be out of luck with a Miata. Also, if you like to
be the one that drives when the department goes out to lunch together,
again you are out of luck. To me these are the two main advantages of a
Mustang over the Miata. Limited hauling capability and the ability to
have more than two passengers. (With passenger side airbags this can
become a very important consideration. (i.e. There is NOWHERE to put an
infant in a Miata.) That said, the Miata shines in other areas. The
trunk is useable, contrary to popular belief, and I have had no trouble
stowing all my gear for long trips to Colorado or the East Coast. (I
live in central Texas.) Short trips have worked out well also, and I can
safely say I have never abandonded a sack of groceries because they
wouldn't fit, even with a passenger along. :-)
I also discovered that my commute to work was unaffected. I drive to
work alone or with my fiance (sp?). I discovered shortly thereafter that
this is the normal mode of commuting for the majority of folks where I
live. I am continually amazed at the number of SUVs and minivans
surrounding me in the morning with 1 occupant. (but I digress) The point
is that for 95% of my driving the Miata has either 1 too many or exactly
the right number of seats. Another thing I discovered is that I can park
the Miata just about anywhere. (And I can get into my car when two SUVs
box me in the "compact" parking spaces!) :-) The folks saying that the
Miata is not for long trip are wrong. (IMHO) I've personally driven 16+
Hrs staight alone and 24Hrs straight with another driver and the Miata
handled the trips just great.
As for performance vs. handling... well, both cars can be modified to
"fix" whatever you want. For 3-5K you can make a Miata out accelerate a
Mustang or a Mustang out handle a Miata. (For best bang for the buck,
buy the car you like the most in stock form and spend your money on
driving school) If you're going to race the car, figure out what type of
racing your up for and pick the car based on that. Otherwise, remember
that on regular streets you won't use most of the Mustang's power
(unless its for leaving trails of black smoke from tires. :-) and you
won't be pulling .8-.9 Gs going to work. (Ok, maybe just once to impress
that nice police officer around the next bend.)
Well, that was more typing than I'm allowed; so, I quit now and just say
that whichever car you choose, make it the one YOU want and you'll never
have to look back and wonder "what if...?"
Good Luck
Mike Philpot
(mi...@ibm.net)
Matthew T. Russotto
In article <heku.87...@snafu.muncca.fi>,
Henri Helanto <he...@snafu.muncca.fi> wrote:
}Doug Barnes <d...@rellNOSPAM.com> writes:
}
}>It's probably easier to make the Mustang handle than the Miata perform.
[...]
} As far as your statment is concerned, it depends on what you
} mean by 'handling', in my book it's much easier to squeeze
} 300 horses from the Miata's engine than to improve Mustangs
} handling to 'good'. ('Fair' can be had by throwing a full
} suspension parts catalog into it, but after that it gets
} seriously expensive and requires a lot of modifications)
}
}-Henri
Why does the term "live rear axle" keep occurring to me? :-)
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
Randy K. Singleton
I have a 95 GT Convertible and I just love it. What it sounds like is you
need to drive more cars because people buy these cars for different
reasons. Your trying to compare apples and oranges. For me I will never
have another non V8 car if I can help it as I have had some really anemic
4&6 bangers. In all fairness to the Miata it is far from anemic but it is
still a 4 cylinder and still runs like one. The Mustang can't compete with
the Miata's "cute factor" either because the Mustang has an aggressive look
and feel to it especially with it's V8 exhaust tones. Overall compare fit
and finish and weigh the factors that matter to you and don't let morons
like me sway you, buy what you like.
Good Luck
Randy
PS: After reading these posts I am confused, am I supposed to be a pimply
faced teenager or a yuppie with a cokespoon up my nose?
Forg
jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> So I have come to you, the experts, for advice.
> Which is the better car?
Henri Helanto
Doug Barnes <d...@rellNOSPAM.com> writes:
>It's probably easier to make the Mustang handle than the Miata perform.
Bear in mind that the Miata's engine is the very same unit
(except for compression ratio) that was used in turbocharged
Mazda 323 rally cars - it even has oil hose fittings for the
turbocharger ;) Getting about 220-250bhp with a proper
turbo kit shouldn't be a problem and it still is a very light
car.
As far as your statment is concerned, it depends on what you
mean by 'handling', in my book it's much easier to squeeze
300 horses from the Miata's engine than to improve Mustangs
handling to 'good'. ('Fair' can be had by throwing a full
suspension parts catalog into it, but after that it gets
seriously expensive and requires a lot of modifications)
-Henri
Marc
>>It's probably easier to make the Mustang handle than the Miata perform.
> Bear in mind that the Miata's engine is the very same unit
> (except for compression ratio) that was used in turbocharged
> Mazda 323 rally cars - it even has oil hose fittings for the
> turbocharger ;) Getting about 220-250bhp with a proper
> turbo kit shouldn't be a problem and it still is a very light
> car.
The 1.6 or the 1.8 litre? I remember the 323 being a 1.6, and the Miata is
currently a 1.8 that I thought wasn't directly based on the 1.6. I'm not
sure, but that is just what I remember.
Brock Blythe
mi...@ibm.net wrote:
I used to drive a mazda mx-3, and paid $1200 a year in insurance. Now I
drive a 1997 Mustang Cobra, and pay $1100 a year on insurance.
Brock Blythe
1997 Mustang Cobra #128
zen
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:21:46 -0600, jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>I am in the market for a new ~...
I would say go for the miata, I never had such a wide variety of
strangers come next to me and say "thats a very nice car! Good luck
with it". I love driving it!
The miata wont be as fast as mustang due to shear volume, but hey you
can make the miata pretty pretty quick with all the after market
add-ons.
I rented a convertible mustang while I was in california and drove
about 2 hours on the californian coast line headed for monterey ca.
the drive was great it would of been incredible if I had my miata.
I use to ride a bike and the miata was the next best thing I could do
to replace that feeling of "being one with the road". My advice is
based more on what my heart feels and there is almost nothing more
satisfying than huging those curves with my baby.
P.S. Test drive them both until you're blue in the face and let your
heart choose.
John Weir
Marc (Gum...@tamu.edu) wrote:
: he...@snafu.muncca.fi (Henri Helanto) said:
: > Bear in mind that the Miata's engine is the very same unit
: > (except for compression ratio) that was used in turbocharged
: > Mazda 323 rally cars - it even has oil hose fittings for the
: > turbocharger ;) Getting about 220-250bhp with a proper
: > turbo kit shouldn't be a problem and it still is a very light
: > car.
: The 1.6 or the 1.8 litre? I remember the 323 being a 1.6, and the Miata is
: currently a 1.8 that I thought wasn't directly based on the 1.6. I'm not
: sure, but that is just what I remember.
The earlier GTX engines were the 1.6l, whereas the later models (not
imported to the states for anything but racing -- I don't think you
can license them, had 1.8l engines. I seem to remember the latest
GTX I've seen listed for sale was somewhere around a '91. The 1.6l
was app'x 135 hp, and the 1.8l was 165? Not absolutely sure, though.
John
Chris Matthaei
On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:44:59 -0400, Brad Sloan <psl...@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:
> No kidding! My fiancee never intentionally exceeds 4K either! I
>think there must be some sort of high-frequency noise in all
>internal-combustion engines at 4K that causes a warning to go off in some
>folks' heads. Each time she's riding when I'm driving, I always get,
>"Does doing that hurt my car?" Sheesh.
To quote my wife every time I rap out her wimpy 1.5L Honda Civic: "You're
breaking it!". Heh heh. If high revs are so bad for it, wouldn't Honda have
designed the car so it didn't happen? This logic doesn't seem to work with
her. though.
Chris
Joshua Turner
(With passenger side airbags this can
> become a very important consideration. (i.e. There is NOWHERE to put an
> infant in a Miata.)
In one of those great ironies, we just received a letter in the mail
from Mazda. Enclosed was a warning label that they advised us to affix
to the sunvisor of our Miata. The label warns that infants should only
be carried in the rear seat...
Jim Carr
Joshua Turner <sh...@umich.edu> writes:
>
>But as a daily driver, the Miata is a tremendous pain in the ass.
Depends on where you drive daily. US-23 is a pain in the ass.
>There's nowhere to hang your suit jacket.
Lose the suit. But there are places to hang it.
>There's nowhere to put
>your briefcase, if you've got more than a deck of playing cards in the
>trunk.
Mine fits great in the trunk, and I carry all sorts of junk.
The trunk seems to have been designed for a briefcase. ;-)
>The trunk-mounted battery assures that if you put your suit
>jacket in the trunk, you smell like battery for the rest of the day.
Someone must have replaced the gel cel with a regular battery
and left off the vent tubes. Neither my briefcase nor my car
cover show any indication of what you describe.
>The
>light, quick and direct steering, which is such a joy on twisty roads,
>becomes darty on the freeway.
With the car set up with some toe out, probably, but the manual
steering is fine with zero toe on freeways. But then my choice
reflects that fact that I drive on twisty roads more than on
freeways. That is why no single answer can be given to this
question, and why the original asker needs to make up a list
of the pluses and minuses of each car. I have not seen any
followups from him on those issues. Its not even clear where
he lives, or what climate he lives in.
>"Relaxed" and "freeway driving' should
>never be used in the same sentence about the Miata
They should never be used in the same sentence, period.
>--the engine's 3500
>rpm wail gets tiring after about 10 minutes at 65 mph, and the wind and
>road noise are truly awe-inspiring at those speeds.
I'm usually still in 3rd gear at that speed. Seriously. I
love that short-shift from 3rd to 5th as I coast down from
80 to the speed limit at the end of the entrance ramp. 3500
sounds normal when you are used to 5000 or more. And if you
think the wind noise is interesting at those speeds, well ...
>Plus, the plastic
>rear window is about as transparent as a beer can,
This is a major problem, particularly in the rain. You need to
use your mirrors more, and be much more careful. Glass windows
are a common upgrade.
>and in the winter,
>the lack of a rear defroster makes a bad situation worse (mainly because
>the snow on top of the car prevents you from putting the top down and
>not having to look through the window).
You should not lower the top below 40 degrees F. This is rarely
a problem except on the coldest winter mornings, however. Above
40, the heater is really impressive even with the top down.
Jim Carr
nos...@mdi.ca (nos...@mdi.ca) writes...
}
} Ah, but with the newer SOHC, you can pull all the way up to 6K with GT and
} with the DOHC, I don't 7K is too hard to get, provided you have the guts to
} 4K, NEVER... :) )
domm...@Zscri.Zfsu.edu (Leon van Dommelen) writes:
>
>Your parents are OK. I let a friend at my place of work drive my
>Miata, and he was driving it in the city at 1,500 rpm in 5th
>gear. I did not know it could be done ;) I had a heck of a time
>trying to keep him above 2,000.
We all must have such stories. My brother insisted that the pedal
would not go down any further when the motor got to 5000 rpm. He
commutes in a Delta 88 automatic, so he is forgiven. Once you feel
that surge when the motor gets into the power band, you know it was
meant to live up there between 5000 and 6500, but it still took me
a while to get used to it.
Jim Carr
"MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
>My insurance is the same on my Mustang as it was on my Dodge Ram.
Ask your agent what it would me on a $20,000 Miata.
>Why would ANYone willingly drive a Miata?
The same reason you willingly drive a Dodge Ram.
> If I decided on a Mazda over a Mustang, it would at least be an RX 7.
As discussed in the Miata group, the late departed RX7 is one heck
of a car. It ate Corvettes for lunch at Topeka, as it usually does.
But if I had $40,000 to spend on a car, I would spend half of it on
my daily driver (Miata, but your choice is fine) and the other half
(minus the cost of the roll cage and extra sets of wheels and tires)
on a car for the track. That might be a Miata, or even a Neon if
FWD suits your driving style, or perhaps the GSL-SE RX7 with lots
of cash left over for track time.
> 73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
>SureGrip
Another very cool option, but not widely available.
removethisantispamtag Remy Triant
In article <5vct46$1...@wanda.vf.pond.com>, russ...@wanda.vf.pond.com
(Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
> In article <heku.87...@snafu.muncca.fi>,
> Henri Helanto <he...@snafu.muncca.fi> wrote:
> }Doug Barnes <d...@rellNOSPAM.com> writes:
> }
> }>It's probably easier to make the Mustang handle than the Miata perform.
>
> [...]
> } As far as your statment is concerned, it depends on what you
> } mean by 'handling', in my book it's much easier to squeeze
> } 300 horses from the Miata's engine than to improve Mustangs
> } handling to 'good'. ('Fair' can be had by throwing a full
> } suspension parts catalog into it, but after that it gets
> } seriously expensive and requires a lot of modifications)
> }
> }-Henri
>
> Why does the term "live rear axle" keep occurring to me? :-)
> --
> Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
> "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
> of justice is no virtue."
Please. You guys spend way too much time reading car magazine hype.
Andre
On Sat, 13 Sep 1997 18:32:06 -0400, Joshua Turner <sh...@umich.edu>
wrote:
>
>In one of those great ironies, we just received a letter in the mail
>from Mazda. Enclosed was a warning label that they advised us to affix
>to the sunvisor of our Miata. The label warns that infants should only
>be carried in the rear seat...
On the Miata, the mountings for the child carrier are on the floor of
the trunk. You are forced to use the Mazda part, since it is the only
one available in the reclining position - the only type that will fit
in the trunk.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
(Change 'nospam' to 'agh' in my address if you would like to reply)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Carr
So, the final comparison between Mustang and Miata is in
from Topeka (both cars SCCA Solo II stock):
The fastest Miata in B Stock came in at 52.874+55.529 = 108.403 sec.
The fastest Mustang in F Stock was 53.857+56.841 = 110.692 sec.
The Mustang was a 1996 Cobra, and finished 5th in its class behind
a bunch of Chevy Camaros. It would have finished 17th in B Stock,
a bit more than two seconds behind the leader. Pretty good.
The fastest car in F Stock ran 53.408+56.463 = 109.871 sec, good
enough to finish 13th (a trophy spot) in B Stock.
As always, drivers matter more than cars, but the car matters.
keller (Michael Keller)
jons...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I am in the market for a new ~$20,000 sportscar. I have narrowed down the
> field to two choices; the Ford Mustang GT and the Mazda Miata, but I am
> having trouble picking one over the other. I know that the Mustang is
> better in a straight line, and that the Miata has better handling.
>
> Even after the test drives, I simply can't decide which car is more fun.
----
Arnold or RuPaul?
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Jim Carr wrote:
> "MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
> >My insurance is the same on my Mustang as it was on my Dodge Ram.
>
> Ask your agent what it would me on a $20,000 Miata.
>
> >Why would ANYone willingly drive a Miata?
>
> The same reason you willingly drive a Dodge Ram.
>
> > If I decided on a Mazda over a Mustang, it would at least be an RX
> 7.
>
> As discussed in the Miata group, the late departed RX7 is one heck
> of a car. It ate Corvettes for lunch at Topeka, as it usually does.
> But if I had $40,000 to spend on a car, I would spend half of it on
> my daily driver (Miata, but your choice is fine) and the other half
> (minus the cost of the roll cage and extra sets of wheels and tires)
> on a car for the track. That might be a Miata, or even a Neon if
> FWD suits your driving style, or perhaps the GSL-SE RX7 with lots
> of cash left over for track time.
>
> > 73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w
> 4.10
> >SureGrip
>
> Another very cool option, but not widely available.
>
> --
> James A. Carr <j...@scri.fsu.edu> | Commercial e-mail is _NOT_
> http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any
> address
> Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account
> Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.
My Dodge Ram which I sold for my Mustang, was a truck. Trucks have
their place, and my particular Ram was a LOT faster than a Miata,
handled about as well and had a LOT more room, and was a LOT more
comfortable. How do you figure that a posative traction rear end with
4.10 gears is not widely available?
--
89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
SureGrip
Jim Carr
beavisb...@beavisandbutthead.com (HERBAVOR) writes:
>
>The Mustang is probably a safer car, just because of its size, but I don't
>have the crash test data available now.
Much of it is on the web.
Neither car appears to have been tested in 40 mph offset crashes by
the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (http://www.hwysafety.org/)
and for some reason the Mustang does not appear in the 1991-1995 period
for 1990-1994 sports cars at http://www.hwysafety.org/deathrat/dsh.htm
on the web. That shows a rather interesting breakdown by multiple and
single vehicle crashes for some sports cars, however.
The Highway Loss Data Institute (http://www.carsafety.org/) has a
summary of "recent" loss experience (including theft) for 1993-1995
models at http://www.carsafety.org/newcompo/sphd.htm that include
most relevant car models. The Miata has a slightly (probably not
significantly) better injury rating but is superior on collision
repair costs and *significantly* better on theft losses compared
to the Mustang convertible (which is 3 times average). That may
explain the passive theft protection system the new ones have.
Finally, NHTSA (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/) is the place to check
for recalls as well their crash reporting information and the
government mandated crash tests. The latter are in the "compliance
testing" area http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/comply/ on
their web site. That gives all the numbers for frontal and side
impact testing, so you can compare relative performance on things
like G load and leg breaking for cars that both passed the test.
That is for tech heads and is not easily searched.
NHTSA also provides relative rating info in a searchable data base
located at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/ on their
site. Interestingly, those tests indicate that the Mustang
convertible is safer than the coupe -- in agreement with the
loss results linked above -- and that the passenger in the
latter is safer than in the Miata. That is a reminder that the
loss rate reflects how the car is driven and whether accidents
are avoided in addition to how the car behaves in a crash.
Jim Carr
Jim Carr wrote:
|
| "MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> writes:
| >Why would ANYone willingly drive a Miata?
|
| The same reason you willingly drive a Dodge Ram.
"MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> My Dodge Ram which I sold for my Mustang, was a truck. Trucks have
>their place, and my particular Ram was a LOT faster than a Miata,
>handled about as well and had a LOT more room, and was a LOT more
>comfortable.
Exactly. My Miata runs through an autocross course in SCCA
Stock trim faster than a Ram, is much easier to park, and
can have its top removed a lot more easily as well. I have
no idea why you think a Dodge Ram handles more easily, but
to each his own. Have you put Mopar in that Mustang?
| > 73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w
| > 4.10 SureGrip
|
| Another very cool option, but not widely available.
>How do you figure that a posative traction rear end with
>4.10 gears is not widely available?
What makes you think I was talking about the rear end? I don't
see many 73 Chargers on the road any more. Haven't seen a
Roadrunner in ages.
Marc
"MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> said:
>my particular Ram was a LOT faster than a Miata,
>handled about as well
Anyone who thinks a Ram can handle about as well as a Miata only thinks so
because:
1) They've never driven a Miata, or
2) They don't know how to drive one.
Miatas can be faster around a track than a Camaro Z28 (or Mustang Cobra).
Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
Therfore, you must think that your full-size truck handles about as well or
better than a Z28 (and Mustang Cobra), right?
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Mehmet Gokturk wrote:
> HAve you had been in accident with a small car?
>
Uhhhh, no.
--
89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
SureGrip
65 Thunderbird Town Landau FE390
62 Chrysler 300 413 Wedge 8bbl Cross Ram
63 Dodge Dart 413 Max Wedge 8bbl short ram
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Marc wrote:
> Anyone who thinks a Ram can handle about as well as a Miata only
> thinks so
> because:
> 1) They've never driven a Miata, or
> 2) They don't know how to drive one.
>
> Miatas can be faster around a track than a Camaro Z28 (or Mustang
> Cobra).
> Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
> Therfore, you must think that your full-size truck handles about as
> well or
> better than a Z28 (and Mustang Cobra), right?
>
>
Anyone who makes blanket remarks with out knowing what the hell they
are talking about doesn't know anything about the modifications someone
may have made to their vehicle, therefore; may end up looking like an
idiot that doesn't know what he is talking about. Yes, I could stay on a
Z28's ass right through a slolom.
Mehmet Gokturk
HAve you had been in accident with a small car?
Marc (Gum...@tamu.edu) wrote:
: "MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> said:
: >my particular Ram was a LOT faster than a Miata,
: >handled about as well
: Anyone who thinks a Ram can handle about as well as a Miata only thinks so
: because:
: 1) They've never driven a Miata, or
: 2) They don't know how to drive one.
: Miatas can be faster around a track than a Camaro Z28 (or Mustang Cobra).
: Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
: Therfore, you must think that your full-size truck handles about as well or
: better than a Z28 (and Mustang Cobra), right?
: Marc
: For email, remove second "y" from Gum...@tamu.edu
--
# Mehmet Gokturk The George Washington University #
# http://www.seas.gwu.edu/student/gokturk #
Henri Helanto
Gum...@tamu.edu (Marc) writes:
>The 1.6 or the 1.8 litre? I remember the 323 being a 1.6, and the Miata is
>currently a 1.8 that I thought wasn't directly based on the 1.6. I'm not
>sure, but that is just what I remember.
You remember correctly. 323 turbos were 1.6:s and very popular
rally cars in early 90's. The 1.8l engine has displacement
advantage over the 1.6 but lacks the 'plug-in' -features that
make turbo conversion so easy. Well, it isn't exactly difficult
anyway ;-)
Henri Helanto
jc...@earth.execpc.com (John Weir) writes:
<...>
>can license them, had 1.8l engines. I seem to remember the latest
>GTX I've seen listed for sale was somewhere around a '91. The 1.6l
>was app'x 135 hp, and the 1.8l was 165? Not absolutely sure, though.
WHAT??? I can't believe they strangled those, too, for the
US market. Offhand I'd say 150-160bhp for the 1.6l and
about 20-25 more for the 1.8. They were artificially limited
to ~240-260bhp for racing, though most powerful street-driven
turbos had well over 300bhp.
Holden McGroin
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:37:57 GMT, Gum...@tamu.edu (Marc) wrote:
[...]
>Miatas can be faster around a track than a Camaro Z28 (or Mustang Cobra).
>Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
[...]
It all depends on the track. If it's a tight track, then yes, a Miata
will easily out handle a Mustang/Camarobird.
But, on a larger track where there are a few straights and higher
speed turns, a -stock- Miatas lack of power will have it struggling to
keep up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Edelen - Frederick, MD - 96 Formula M6 - Purple / Graphite
Borla, Cold Air, Hurst, SFCs, STB, Eibachs, PFCM, HPP+, 160, MBA stuff
Henri Helanto
remy@(removethisantispamtag)gcoast.com (Remy Triant) writes:
>Please. You guys spend way too much time reading car magazine hype.
More like spend too much time driving other cars; as I've said
many times, Mustangs don't handle that bad, not at all, but
the difference to cars that handle really well is huge.
With a Mustang you get a lot of car for your money but what
you get isn't by far an allmighty apex carver, more like a nice
example of what can be done with aging technology.
Marc
don'tspa...@this.address (Holden McGroin) said:
>On Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:37:57 GMT, Gum...@tamu.edu (Marc) wrote:
>>Miatas can be faster around a track than a Camaro Z28 (or Mustang Cobra).
>>Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
>It all depends on the track.
Completly
>If it's a tight track, then yes, a Miata
>will easily out handle a Mustang/Camarobird.
>But, on a larger track where there are a few straights and higher
>speed turns, a -stock- Miatas lack of power will have it struggling to
>keep up.
Sure. Now, pick a sufficiently tight track and the Miata will be faster.
Since the Miata is faster on courses where power is less of an issue, then
it must be a better handling car.
Notice my use of the words "can" and "be" just before "faster." I didn't
say they were always faster, but was just pointing out to the person that
said his full-sized truck handled about as well as a Miata that he'd have
to believe that his truck was better handling than a Z28 and Mustang Cobra
for that to be true. IOW, he is full of it.
Marc
gok...@seas.gwu.edu (Mehmet Gokturk) said:
>HAve you had been in accident with a small car?
Did you think about what that had to do with a discussion on handling?
>: Anyone who thinks a Ram can handle about as well as a Miata only thinks so
>: because:
>: 1) They've never driven a Miata, or
>: 2) They don't know how to drive one.
Marc
Marc
"MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> said:
> Anyone who makes blanket remarks with out knowing what the hell they
>are talking about doesn't know anything about the modifications someone
>may have made to their vehicle, therefore; may end up looking like an
>idiot that doesn't know what he is talking about. Yes, I could stay on a
>Z28's ass right through a slolom.
How much did you spend? $20k, more? I've seen trucks with $5k+ of just
suspension mods that were still behind where the Z28 started, stock. There
is just too much weight, and it is high up. I'd imagine that there could
exist a truck that would be a Z28's equal. I don't think you drive it.
Since you obviously think I'm wrong, why don't you tell us what you had
done to it, and we can guess better off that.
Jim Carr
Joshua Turner
> > Anyone who thinks a Ram can handle about as well as a Miata only
> > thinks so
> > because:
> > 1) They've never driven a Miata, or
> > 2) They don't know how to drive one.
> >
> > Cobra).
> > Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
> > well or
> > better than a Z28 (and Mustang Cobra), right?
> Anyone who makes blanket remarks with out knowing what the hell they
> are talking about doesn't know anything about the modifications someone
> may have made to their vehicle, therefore; may end up looking like an
> idiot that doesn't know what he is talking about. Yes, I could stay on a
> Z28's ass right through a slolom.
>
No offense, MaxWedge, but I seriously doubt that. It is conceivable that
someone could spend enough money on modifying their Dodge Ram to make it
into a vehicle that handles as well as a Miata--but what you'd have at
the end would be unrecognizable as a Dodge Ram. To illustrate just a few
of the things you'd have to do, IMHO:
-Reduce the height to lower center of gravity; might be accomplisehed by
radically chopping and channeling the truck.
-Reduce length. A shorter car can turn sharper than a long one. You
might be able to to this by taking 5 or 6 feet out of the frame.
-Remove and replace both front and rear suspensions with units that were
designed for handling rather than hauling.
Meanwhile, while person X is turning his Ram into a race car, spending
thousands of dollars in the process and, of course, losing whatever
utility the truck once had, person Y with the Miata could spend a few
hundred on a good set of shaved A-008Rs, and raise the bar even further.
I wouldn't attempt to haul furniture in my Miata, and I wouldn't try to
outhandle one of the fastest autoX cars out there in a pickup truck.
Brad Sloan
On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar) wrote:
> My Dodge Ram which I sold for my Mustang, was a truck. Trucks have
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I doubt it. Your truck runs into an aerodynamic brick wall around
115 mph. The Miata will go at least 125. If, by "faster," you mean
acceleration, I doubt that, too. Current 133 bhp Miatas do 0-60 in a
little under 8 secs. Your Ram, even with the gas-guzzler V8, hovers
around 8 flat (stock). Most trucks (non-awd) run into a traction brick
wall around 7 secs flat anyway, so your claim of being "a LOT" faster than
a Miata cannot be right.
> handled about as well and had a LOT more room, and was a LOT more
Now I KNOW you're joking. Never, never, never.
Brad Sloan
Clemson University
Clemson, SC
Brad Sloan
On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Joshua Turner wrote:
> No offense, MaxWedge, but I seriously doubt that. It is conceivable that
> someone could spend enough money on modifying their Dodge Ram to make it
> into a vehicle that handles as well as a Miata--but what you'd have at
> the end would be unrecognizable as a Dodge Ram. To illustrate just a few
> of the things you'd have to do, IMHO:
> -Reduce the height to lower center of gravity; might be accomplisehed by
> radically chopping and channeling the truck.
> -Reduce length. A shorter car can turn sharper than a long one. You
> might be able to to this by taking 5 or 6 feet out of the frame.
> -Remove and replace both front and rear suspensions with units that were
> designed for handling rather than hauling.
OK, I take back my "Never, never, never" statement. No, the Cg of
the Ram will not wind up being as low as the Miata, but he could
conceivably compensate for this elsewhere. He'd have to do something
about the live axle and leaf springs, though. But in this case, I'd bet
the farm that this particular chap has done no such midifications. Heck,
he probably still had the live rear, which should be the first thing to
go. As well as locating the engine in the rear.
> Meanwhile, while person X is turning his Ram into a race car, spending
> thousands of dollars in the process and, of course, losing whatever
> utility the truck once had, person Y with the Miata could spend a few
> hundred on a good set of shaved A-008Rs, and raise the bar even further.
Good point.
> I wouldn't attempt to haul furniture in my Miata, and I wouldn't try to
> outhandle one of the fastest autoX cars out there in a pickup truck.
Absolutely. Nail, head, all that.
Robert Wiegand
mi...@ibm.net writes:
> (With passenger side airbags this can
>become a very important consideration. (i.e. There is NOWHERE to put an
>infant in a Miata.)
I believe that for a two seat car it is legal to disable the passanger
side air-bag for a child seat.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Wiegand | Remove the "$" from my e-mail address before replying.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The angry people are those people who are most afraid. - Dr. Robert Anthony
Naive3
well I have both cars, a 95 Mustang GT with 37000 miles and a 95 Miata R
package. and they both have there place.
I drive 50 miles to work and back and the GT gets about 12 to 14 mpg and
handles like shit, it feels like the front end is worn out
but it is fast, I have raced Iroc's and corvett's and never lost in a
strieght line, but it feels like a boat. Now my Miata gets 28 miles to the
gal and it is truely fun to drive, the other day I had a 3000 GT want to
race on a curvy road and I eat him up I didn't just out handle him I kept
up in the straights too that was the 220hp SL that coast $33000.oo and it
would of taken my GT in the corners. so if your looking at a GT , Cobras
are much nicer, but if you want the most Bang for the buck it's the Miata,
Oh the wife drives the Stang,
and I drive the Miata ( my choice ) Write me any time "Labt...@aol.com"
RICHARD RHYMES
Joshua Turner <sh...@umich.edu> wrote in article
<341D76...@umich.edu>...
> > >
> > > Miatas can be faster around a track than a Camaro Z28 (or Mustang
> > > Cobra).
> > > Since the Z28 has more power, the difference must be in the handling.
> > > Therfore, you must think that your full-size truck handles about as
> > > well or
> > > better than a Z28 (and Mustang Cobra), right?
>
Some years ago - when Camaro's were under $10k and Ferrari's were under
$50k the statement was made to the effect that if you added $30k in
suspension work to the Camaro it would handle like a Ferrari and if you
removed $30k in suspension from the Ferrari it would handle just like a
Camaro.
The Camaro is NOT a roadster - it has no finesse - it is a muscle machine -
- the Mazdarati is NOT a muscle machine - it is a roadster with a LOT of
finesse.
Nick Horianopoulos
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar) wrote:
>
> My Dodge Ram which I sold for my Mustang, was a truck. Trucks have
> their place, and my particular Ram was a LOT faster than a Miata,
I'm sure that it did. In fact, I heard that the Dodge Ram actually WON
the SCCA Autocross championships held this year in Topeka, Kansas... Or
was that actually a Miata?
Duhhhhh!
Why does everybody believe their vehicles to be "all things to all
people", and that said vehicles do EVERYTHING better than EVERY other
vehicle on the road?
--
Nick
"Enjoying his continuous-life crisis..."
"Blue Zuzuni" '94 Miata, soon to be Turbo'ed, lowered, etc...
Vist the demented world of Nick Horianopoulos
at: http://www.concentric.net/~greek
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Marc wrote:
> "How much did you spend? $20k, more? I've seen trucks with $5k+ of
> just
> suspension mods that were still behind where the Z28 started, stock.
> There
> is just too much weight, and it is high up. I'd imagine that there
> could
> exist a truck that would be a Z28's equal. I don't think you drive
> it.
>
> Since you obviously think I'm wrong, why don't you tell us what you
> had
> done to it, and we can guess better off that.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove second "y" from Gum...@tamu.edu
No I don't drive it. O sold it a month ago and bought my Mustang. YEp,
yer lookin thu part sonny.....
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Brad Sloan wrote:
> I doubt it. Your truck runs into an aerodynamic brick wall
> around
> 115 mph. The Miata will go at least 125. If, by "faster," you mean
> acceleration, I doubt that, too. Current 133 bhp Miatas do 0-60 in a
> little under 8 secs. Your Ram, even with the gas-guzzler V8, hovers
> around 8 flat (stock). Most trucks (non-awd) run into a traction
> brick
> wall around 7 secs flat anyway, so your claim of being "a LOT" faster
> than
> a Miata cannot be right.
>
> > handled about as well and had a LOT more room, and was a LOT more
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Now I KNOW you're joking. Never, never, never.
>
> Brad Sloan
> Clemson University
> Clemson, SC
There are as many modifications for Dodge Magnum V8's as there are for
Mustangs. Since this 318 started at 230 hp and went from there, I know
infact it is a LOT faster than any Miata. If you feel I am wrong, I
suppose you would have to ask the ones that were beaten. Apparently
these replies are comming from the Miata group, (I just recently
realized that this thread was cross posted), so I understand this
drivers of tiny little japanees cars as having little or no knowladge of
modifying American V8's. My 60 foot imes were a little lower than the
Mustangs and Firebirds, with my full quarter being 7-8 tenths higher.
Yes a stock V8 Dakota will eat a Miata for lunch. Live withit. I spent
about 3800.00 on suspension. And if checked on a skid pad I'm sure a Z28
is better, on raods around here, I will still be right behind him. And
according to a guy I followed to New Orleans one day, My brick wall was
traveling at a steady 122 with some pedal left. Have you driven a Dodge
Lately ?
Michael A Turner
>MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar) wrote:
>>
>> My Dodge Ram which I sold for my Mustang, was a truck. Trucks have
>> their place, and my particular Ram was a LOT faster than a Miata,
>> handled about as well...
Yeah.... so conceited. I can just picture you... (I won't even get into
it). -- I would LOVE to see any dodge RAM take a tight interchange
cloverleaf at 65MPH+ without flying into a ditch the second it entered the
turn. I dunno though... my miata handles it pretty well. I would like to
see you Mustang do the same as well.
(Sorry... couldn't help it)
y
--
Michael Allen Turner * Love Paris? Wish You Were There?
Brilliant Black '97 ("Luc") * http://www.geocities.com/Paris/7357/
Miata Club of Minnesota * Live Paris WebCams/Radio/Photos/More!
pell_mell
dpdr...@REMOVE-THISexecpc.com (Eye of the Storm) wrote:
On behalf of all music fans, please never post Rush lyrics again. It
makes us puke.
ps - thanks for not using WebTV
SlowCarFastBike
>. Live withit. I spent
>about 3800.00 on suspension.
Sounds like you need to find a new hobby to waste your money on. 3800
putting a street suspension on a truck? Yuck! And if it is an
offroad suspension, the guy who you were racing either a) wasn't very
good at driving or b) wasn't racing you ;-) .
>
>--
> 89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
> 73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
>SureGrip
> 65 Thunderbird Town Landau FE390
> 62 Chrysler 300 413 Wedge 8bbl Cross Ram
> 63 Dodge Dart 413 Max Wedge 8bbl short ram
Some nice cars there, but none of them can hang with a Miata in terms
of all around balance. Live with it.
>
> It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited
>commercial email per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.
>I assess a US $500 charge for reviewing & deleting each
>unsolicited commercial email. Sending unsolicited commercial
>email to my email address denotes acceptance of these terms.
>My posting messages to UseNet neither grants consent to receiving
>nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
>
> To Reply, remove the NOSPAM and send.
>
>
*LEGAL NOTICE TO ALL BULK E-MAILERS* Pursuant to US
Code,Title 7,Chapter 5,Subchapter II,227,all
nonsolicited commercial Email sent to this address
is subject to a download & archival fee in the
amount of $500US. E-mailing to this address for
commercial purposes denotes acceptance of these
terms. Violators will be prosecuted to the
maximum extent of the law.
Jim Carr
Brad Sloan wrote:
}
} > handled about as well and had a LOT more room, and was a LOT more
} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
}
} Now I KNOW you're joking. Never, never, never.
"MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)" <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> There are as many modifications for Dodge Magnum V8's as there are for
>Mustangs.
Modifying the engine does not improve handling.
> My 60 foot imes were a little lower than the
>Mustangs and Firebirds, with my full quarter being 7-8 tenths higher.
As suspected, you were talking about drag-race performance of
that truck, not handling. We have in mind what would happen
if you made a 90 degree right turn at the 60 foot mark.
>Yes a stock V8 Dakota will eat a Miata for lunch.
I didn't see any of them entered in F Stock, where they would
have to lunch on Mustangs and Camaros before getting to Miatae.
> I spent about 3800.00 on suspension.
Not stock.
Brad Sloan
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar) wrote:
> There are as many modifications for Dodge Magnum V8's as there are for
> Mustangs.
You got an independent rear suspension? I didn't think so...
> Apparently
> these replies are comming from the Miata group, (I just recently
> realized that this thread was cross posted)
Nope. I lurk and post on both r.a.m.m.m. as well as r.a.d.,
although much more frequently on the latter.
> drivers of tiny little japanees cars as having little or no knowladge of
> modifying American V8's.
What's to know? More air=more power, whether it's Japanese air or
'Murikin.
> Yes a stock V8 Dakota will eat a Miata for lunch. Live withit. I spent
> about 3800.00 on suspension. And if checked on a skid pad I'm sure a Z28
> is better
Better start spending more. You know, in order to locate the
engine in the rear, convert to an irs, lower Cg height, and get rid of all
that flabby weight.
> My brick wall was
> traveling at a steady 122 with some pedal left. Have you driven a Dodge
> Lately ?
Yeah, but I don't get into brand-bashing, unless you're a certain
Chemist from Atlanta. 122 is very impressive for a truck, but still not
as fast as a Miata.
Brad Sloan
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, it was written:
>
> On behalf of all music fans, please never post Rush lyrics again. It
> makes us puke.
The same group that brought us "Red Barchetta?" Sorry, Pal.
Felix Miata
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar) wrote:
>
> Marc wrote:
>
> > "How much did you spend? $20k, more? I've seen trucks with $5k+ of
> > just
> > suspension mods that were still behind where the Z28 started, stock.
> > There
> > is just too much weight, and it is high up. I'd imagine that there
> > could
> > exist a truck that would be a Z28's equal. I don't think you drive
> > it.
> >
> > Since you obviously think I'm wrong, why don't you tell us what you
> > had
> > done to it, and we can guess better off that.
> >
> > Marc
> > For email, remove second "y" from Gum...@tamu.edu
>
> No I don't drive it. O sold it a month ago and bought my Mustang. YEp,
> yer lookin thu part sonny.....
> 89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
> 73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
> SureGrip
> 65 Thunderbird Town Landau FE390
> 62 Chrysler 300 413 Wedge 8bbl Cross Ram
> 63 Dodge Dart 413 Max Wedge 8bbl short ram
>
Don't 'spose you bot the '62 in '61 or '62, dija? Only place I seen won
is in pitchers. Dat wedge in da '63 mus been won serious shoehorn job!
Brings back memories of what I used to wish for. Had a '60 Valiant 170,
then a '65 Valiant 225. Later tossed the 225 for a 273. Busted a couple
dem 7" rears wit da 4-speed so put in Duster 340 3.55 8.75 SureGrip,
then the matchin' front disk binders. Dat sumbitch was fun wit da
fenderwell headers & sidepipes, 340 heads, too-big double pumper, & da
bran spankin new Edelbrock Tarantula. Den went to college & got poor.
Also got hooked on Mazda's rotary & left da V-8's so's I could have a
fast itty bitty car. Been doin it dat way ever since.
--
"When the ultra-liberals lose elections, they fight all the more
desperately for control of our third branch, the courts. Why? Because
the courts control the constitution and the constitution is the 'trump
card' in politics. That's why this war is crucial. Now, there are only
two sides really in this struggle. Either the constitution controls the
judges, or the judges rewrite the constitution." Judge Robert Bork
Team OS/2 running v4 FP3 via RSUCSF.ZIP
FIXx ADDRESSs TOo REPLYy.
Felix Miata
MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)
Sounds like you need to get a real car.
SlowCarFastBike wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:02:56 -0500, "MaxWedge (Mr. Mopar)"
> <maxwedg...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >. Live withit. I spent
> >about 3800.00 on suspension.
>
> Sounds like you need to find a new hobby to waste your money on. 3800
>
> putting a street suspension on a truck? Yuck! And if it is an
> offroad suspension, the guy who you were racing either a) wasn't very
> good at driving or b) wasn't racing you ;-) .
>
> >
> >--
> > 89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
> > 73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
> >SureGrip
> > 65 Thunderbird Town Landau FE390
> > 62 Chrysler 300 413 Wedge 8bbl Cross Ram
> > 63 Dodge Dart 413 Max Wedge 8bbl short ram
>
> Some nice cars there, but none of them can hang with a Miata in terms
> of all around balance. Live with it.
>
> >
> > It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited
> >commercial email per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.
> >I assess a US $500 charge for reviewing & deleting each
> >unsolicited commercial email. Sending unsolicited commercial
> >email to my email address denotes acceptance of these terms.
> >My posting messages to UseNet neither grants consent to receiving
> >nor is intended to solicit commercial email.
> >
> > To Reply, remove the NOSPAM and send.
> >
> >
>
> *LEGAL NOTICE TO ALL BULK E-MAILERS* Pursuant to US
> Code,Title 7,Chapter 5,Subchapter II,227,all
> nonsolicited commercial Email sent to this address
> is subject to a download & archival fee in the
> amount of $500US. E-mailing to this address for
> commercial purposes denotes acceptance of these
> terms. Violators will be prosecuted to the
> maximum extent of the law.
--
89 5.0 LX HB K&N Pro 5.0 Flow Master Mac
73 Charger 340 Holley 660 New Process 4spd Chrysler 8.75/w 4.10
SureGrip
65 Thunderbird Town Landau FE390
62 Chrysler 300 413 Wedge 8bbl Cross Ram
63 Dodge Dart 413 Max Wedge 8bbl short ram
It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited
Henri Helanto
>Yes a stock V8 Dakota will eat a Miata for lunch. Live withit. I spent
>about 3800.00 on suspension. And if checked on a skid pad I'm sure a Z28
I've thrown about twice that - not including the days spent
fine-tuning the settings on track - in suspension parts in
my Vette and it still doesn't particularly shine in handling
department, not even with 245/50ZR16 and 265/45ZR16 (F/R)
sticky rubber. (To all Vette fans who want to make comments
about originality: ever heard about restification? ;)
There's just so much you can do for even remotely reasonable
price to improve the handling of a car (or truck) and if
the starting point is a truck, I'd rather say that the handling
after modifications is just less horrible than it was stock,
nowhere near 'good'.
>is better, on raods around here, I will still be right behind him. And
>according to a guy I followed to New Orleans one day, My brick wall was
>traveling at a steady 122 with some pedal left.
My black brick wall could do that when it was still stock,
not that impressive after all.
>Have you driven a Dodge Lately ?
Yep, sure, but it was sort-of lower and had a funny snake emblem
on the hood. To speak the truth I wasn't as impressed with its
handling and power as much I thought I would be. Yours probably
was a lot better, as you praise it this much? ;-)
nos...@mdi.ca
In <Pine.OSF.3.96.970912...@hubcap.clemson.edu>, on
09/12/97
at 02:44 PM, Brad Sloan <psl...@hubcap.clemson.edu> said:
>On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Marc wrote:
>> Has enyone else noticed this? My mom bought a high reving DOHC 2.0 4-cyl,
>> and it never gets above 4k when she drives. I wound it up a couple of
>> times getting on a freeway or such, and I think she was about to blow her
>> head gasket (Mom, not the car). I tried (in vain) to convince her that the
>> redline is the maximum point where the car can be continuously opperated
>> without damage.
> No kidding! My fiancee never intentionally exceeds 4K either! I think
>there must be some sort of high-frequency noise in all internal-combustion
>engines at 4K that causes a warning to go off in some folks' heads. Each
>time she's riding when I'm driving, I always get, "Does doing that hurt my
>car?" Sheesh.
Well... my mom and pop never drove over 4K RPM on their Camry V6... I
routinly run into the 5.5K to 6K when passing and accelerating onto
highway... Some other cars (the good 'ol Caddy STS comes to mind) makes a
horrifying sound starting at 4.5K or somewhere close... I know that because
the throttle was stuck somehow and I started the car without knowing it...
:)
> Once, I was trying to get her to pass another car quickly by
>using the most of the Miata's small powerband. If you don't see at least
>6K, that car isn't going anywhere quickly. So, she downshifted beautifully
>(even a little throttle stab on the downshift! I was impressed...), but
>kind of forgot to upshift once we hit 7K. I couldn't help but laugh
>hysterically as she got extremely flustered by the behavior of the rev
>limiter. "Did I break my car?"
hehehe... :)
===Proud Member of Team OS/2, Team OS/2 at Taiwan, ICENews Beta Tester===
===================And Bovine Team Warped Key Crucher====================
NUTS' Home Base
US Mirror http://www.cybermail.net/~davidwei
Taiwanese Mirror http://www.taconet.com.tw/~davidwei
光碟月刊 OS/2 技術編輯 <<>> Hope_Net CD-ROM Monthly, OS/2 Editor