Miata Club of America Controversy
Leon van Dommelen
normally post E-mail I receive, I consider this one a mass mailing, not a
personal communication. Moreover, may cast aspersion on others. I have
invited Vince Tidwell and Norm Garrett to comment in this group.
Leon
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
To: [mega snip]
Subject: Miata Magazine and MCA
From: Larry Alster <Larry@SPAM!!!Miata.net>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:48:46 -0400
Sorry to intrude in your life but I am writing to all the Miata Club
contact points to pass along a little information and a few requests.
Many of you may know some or all of this info and some may know nothing
about it but please take the time to read this email. I will try to be
as brief as possible. When you are done if you want to ask questions,
make suggestions or yell at me please feel free to write back.
My email is Larry@SPAM!!!Miata.net
Now the story.
MCA is no longer providing Barbara Beach, the publisher of Miata
Magazine since 1997, the money that they owe her for publication of the
magazine. Barbara sent the last issue of the magazine out with her own
money. MCA is now withholding the labels to mail the current issue of
the magazine. It would seem that this is a deliberate attempt to shut
Barbara out and potentially bankrupting her. The money number mentioned
is $60,000.00. Not a small amount of money.
Vince Tidwell, President of MCA, has alluded to the fact that MCA
members will continue to get a magazine but is side stepping the issue
of whether or not it will be The Miata Magazine. He has made comments
to various Miata people that there will be a new magazine.
Barbara has been willing to continue to send the magazine to the people
it is owed to but has no addresses to do this. This is very nice of her
but it costs her money to do this.
You can now subscribe directly to Miata Magazine. This can be done at
Miata.net or by calling. Either call 1-760-631-1202 or go to Miata.net
https://www.enjoya.com/secure/miatamagazineorder3.asp
You can contact her and give you her address if you are "owed" a
magazine from MCA, just remember she gets no money from them at this
point.
Now to the requests:
Please pass this information along to members of your clubs that are not
on the electronic forums. These are the people that Barbara needs to
reach. Her only contact with these people has been mailing them a
magazine and she does not have access to their names directly. A lot of
these people will have no idea that anything has happened until the
receive some sort of substitute magazine.
There have been a lot of people that are canceling their MCA memberships
and subscribing directly to the magazine. This does two things. It
sends a message to MCA that you are not happy with the services they
provide to you for your $29.00. Also you will be paying Barbara for the
magazine she sends you and BTW she is giving it to you for only $20.00.
The other thing that is happening is a letter writing campaign. Some of
the clubs and even individuals are writing to Mazda to complain about
the situation with MCA. If you feel strongly about this I would request
that you consider pitching in with this effort. This is important if
you ever expect to have a Miata Club that will work for you. Mazda has
always been supportive of MCA no matter what. MCA has told them that
they have had almost no cancellations yet. This is not true. Mazda has
always discounted input from the electronic forums as not truly
representative of the owners of their cars. Therefore if you write a
letter please mail it, do not send it electronically. If you do please
don't make it a kill MCA style letter but a letter stating the facts
that MCA is providing no current benefits but the magazine and now they
are not even doing that. That they are also failing to pay Barbara
Beach for the magazine which she has continued to try to provide to the
members. ETC. ETC.
Some other points of information to ponder.
Wonder why after about 10 years MCA is finally starting to dole out
small quantities of money to local clubs?? Does anyone know how long
their contract with Mazda was?? Any possibility it might be up for
renewal and they might have no magazine as a requirement??
How long can Barbara continue to do this?? She paid MCA good money for
the magazine and has a loan on it. There is a good possibility that she
has missed loan payments by now.
Please take it from there as you see fit.
If you need and address for a contact at Mazda you can use:
Mr. Alan Childers
Mazda Motor of America
7755 Irvine Center Drive
Irvine, CA 92718
You can send the letter to the follow gentleman also:
Mr. Jack Stavana
Mazda Motor of America
7755 Irvine Center Drive
Irvine, CA 92718
If you want to see the discussions on this subject you can visit the
Miata.net forum:
http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/000090.html
There are also other discussions under the main heading of The
International Miata Club.
Any letters you send to Mazda please also send a copy to Gary Fischman
at Miata.net. He has offered to keep a file of them for future
reference.
Miata.net
12 Spring Ct
Old Tappan, NJ 07675
--
Thanks for your time
Larry Alster
Membership Chairman of Low Country Miata Club
Member of:
Low Country Miata
Masters Miata
RAGS 074
End of E-mail
--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
REMOVE THE "z"s -> domm...@zmiata.net www.dommelen.net
"EXIT THE INTERSTATES" (Jamie Jensen)
Ephar
a legitimate club. http://www.miata.net/clubs/
I wonder what's going to happen in the long run.... I bet it's
gonna be twisty though! .)
Ephar & Bambi
Lanny Chambers
<mym...@yourmiata.nospam.com> wrote:
>It's also interesting that miata.net no longer acknowledges MCOA as
>a legitimate club.
Well...it never *was* a legitimate club, was it? Without the magazine,
it's just a retirement plan for NormVince and a ploy to funnel business
to one favored insurance company under the ruse of "lower rates."
Legitimate clubs have elected officers and provide desired services to
their members.
--
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
alignment suggestions:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
Leon van Dommelen
===========================================================================
[Header snip]
To: Leon van Dommelen <domm...@wombat.eng.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: (fwd) Miata Magazine and MCA
From: S Vince Tidwell <s...@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:28:11 -0400
Leon,
Thanks for your letter. There is indeed another side to the story and
because of a lawsuit from MPG, our attorneys have advised us to refrain
from commenting at this moment.
With a month, this will be resolved and most everyone can get back to their
lives of enjoying their Miata.
All the best,
Vince Tidwell
At 10:50 PM 9/9/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Vince Tidwell, Norman Garrett,
>
>I received this letter and I am posting it to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
>It is similar to various earlier postings on that newsgroup in content.
>
>I invite you to post your version of events on rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
>so that a balanced picture can be presented. If you do not know how
>to post to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata, E-mail me a public response
>and I will post it unchanged and without comment.
>
>Sincerely,
>Leon van Dommelen
>
>On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:48:46 -0400, Larry Alster <Larry@SPAM!!!Miata.net>
wrote:
>
[snip of Larry Alster's letter as posted before]
=======================================================================
Leon
Craig
miata.net and Miata Magazine were linked to MCA, and that the dues paid
MCA supported both of them. Can somebody separate out the players and
tell us who is what.
Thanks
Craig
MikeB
"Miata Guy" <mx5_mi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:A%Jv5.675$Yv5.3...@news1.telusplanet.net...
> Vince Tidwell and Norm Garrett are the Miata Club of America. It is a
> business. They take your $29 US dues for themselves. From this (up until
> Barbara Beach bought the magazine), they produced 4 (and later 5) Miata
> Magazines, usually late, and rife with errors.
>
> Barbara Beach is now the principal owner of Miata Magazine, which she
bought
> from N & V. For this, the MCofA supplies $6/yr/member to her to cover 6
> issues of the Miata Magazine.
>
> Gary Fischman is the owner of Miata.Net, which for most of its life has
been
> totally separate from anything. There was a time when Gary was allowed to
> write a colum in MM, but N & V had him kicked out for his comments against
> MCofA but for MM.
>
> The MCofA has witheld the $60,000 (10,000 members x $6) for 2000 from MM.
>
> You can now subscribe to MM directly without having to join MCofA, a
savings
> of $10/yr. N & V are understandably pissed, as this has been their income
> (other than Sebring Superchargers for Norm - which he admitted to netting
> him $10,000 month some number of years ago - never wondered why only
Sebring
> (later JR - Moss) Superchargers were the only ads and reviews in the MM?
>
> "Craig" <ngre...@spamtrap.home.com> wrote in message
> news:39BEFBF5...@spamtrap.home.com...
John Ducote
> because of a lawsuit from MPG, our attorneys have advised us to refrain
> from commenting at this moment.
What crap. Attorneys didn't stop us from hearing the MM-side of the story,
what possible good comes from sneaking around & hiding behind lawyers?
Lanny Chambers
<Pine.BSF.4.05.100091...@gemini.c-com.net>, John
Ducote <j...@pointecom.net> wrote:
>Attorneys didn't stop us from hearing the MM-side of the story,
>what possible good comes from sneaking around & hiding behind lawyers?
If good, rather than obfuscation, were the MCA intent, you'd have a
point. They don't want good; they want money without working for it.
Cissy Brazil
>"Miata Guy"
Go here --
https://www.enjoya.com/secure/miatamagazineorder3.asp
Cissy
Miata Guy
business. They take your $29 US dues for themselves. From this (up until
Barbara Beach bought the magazine), they produced 4 (and later 5) Miata
Magazines, usually late, and rife with errors.
Barbara Beach is now the principal owner of Miata Magazine, which she bought
from N & V. For this, the MCofA supplies $6/yr/member to her to cover 6
issues of the Miata Magazine.
Gary Fischman is the owner of Miata.Net, which for most of its life has been
totally separate from anything. There was a time when Gary was allowed to
write a colum in MM, but N & V had him kicked out for his comments against
MCofA but for MM.
The MCofA has witheld the $60,000 (10,000 members x $6) for 2000 from MM.
You can now subscribe to MM directly without having to join MCofA, a savings
of $10/yr. N & V are understandably pissed, as this has been their income
(other than Sebring Superchargers for Norm - which he admitted to netting
him $10,000 month some number of years ago - never wondered why only Sebring
(later JR - Moss) Superchargers were the only ads and reviews in the MM?
"Craig" <ngre...@spamtrap.home.com> wrote in message
news:39BEFBF5...@spamtrap.home.com...
Lanny Chambers
>Thanks for your letter. There is indeed another side to the story and
>because of a lawsuit from MPG, our attorneys have advised us to refrain
>from commenting at this moment.
This is typical MCA sucker bait. They'll never explain why they're such
greedy parasites, relying instead on the P.T. Barnum Theory: there's one
born every minute. In their arrogance, they sold Barb the magazine, but
still think they can control it. MCA is irrelevant, a walking corpse;
once Mazda realizes that, MCA will collapse overnight.
Miata Guy
page.
"MikeB" <mbrad...@home.com> wrote in message
news:1WQv5.38110$Qx4.1...@news1.rdc1.il.home.com...
> How do I get ahold of this lady that bought the mag? (to subscribe)
>
> "Miata Guy" <mx5_mi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:A%Jv5.675$Yv5.3...@news1.telusplanet.net...
Vincent Chan
: In article
:>Attorneys didn't stop us from hearing the MM-side of the story,
:>what possible good comes from sneaking around & hiding behind lawyers?
: If good, rather than obfuscation, were the MCA intent, you'd have a
: point. They don't want good; they want money without working for it.
: --
: Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
: '94C
: alignment suggestions:
: http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
It is not exactly "without working for it" . They still maintain the web
site, <<right??>>.
What I think they should have done is to add a login authenication system;
hence members who paid the annual fee will be able to browse through all
info by their membership ## and a password with it; leaving non-members
the access of a smaller portion of pages... Cutting the
magazine is one bad thing to do as of member's point of view.
-Vincent
Lanny Chambers
<ch...@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>What I think they should have done is to add a login authenication system;
>hence members who paid the annual fee will be able to browse through all
>info...
All *what* info?
B&SY
> It is not exactly "without working for it" . They still maintain the web
> site, <<right??>>.
What web site?!
Bart
Vincent W Chan
B&SY <yo...@pyenterprises.com> wrote:
:> It is not exactly "without working for it" . They still maintain the web
Jason G
>You can now subscribe to MM directly without having to join MCofA, a savings
>of $10/yr.
Hey, how can one do this? I didn't renew my MCA membership but I miss the
magazine. Tell me tell me.
Hell, I could probably drive by Barbs house since she lives just up I-5 from
me.
--
Jason G
"Racing is a disease cured only by poverty."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
NORA H E HAGUE
has been. In fact, by subscribing directly to Miata Magazine, part of the
subscription fee goes to Miata.Net for support.
Nora and the Rollerskate
'99 silver, it must be illegal to have this much fun
NORA H E HAGUE
Nora and the Rollerskate
'99 silver, it must be illegal to have this much fun
On 15 Sep 2000, Vincent W Chan wrote:
> Isn't miata.net still maintained by Vince/Norm ?
>
Miata Guy
"Jason G" <jrgusenet_REMOVE@THIS_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39c2cb13$1...@goliath2.newsfeeds.com...
> In article <A%Jv5.675$Yv5.3...@news1.telusplanet.net>, "Miata Guy"
<mx5_mi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >You can now subscribe to MM directly without having to join MCofA, a
savings
> >of $10/yr.
>
>
Leon van Dommelen
>Isn't miata.net still maintained by Vince/Norm ?
Miata.net has never been maintained by Vince and Norm. Vince and Norm's
web site is http://www.miataclub.org
Miata.net was started and is still maintained by Gary Fischmann, an
independent Miata enthusiast not associated with the MCA.
>B&SY <yo...@pyenterprises.com> wrote:
>:> It is not exactly "without working for it" . They still maintain the web
>:> site, <<right??>>.
>
>: What web site?!
>
>: Bart
Leon
Lanny Chambers
>Miata.net has never been maintained by Vince and Norm. Vince and Norm's
>web site is http://www.miataclub.org
Notice that while the MCA site still bears the line:
"For Miata Magazine advertising and submissions: mdias...@aol.com"
the email link now actually goes to di...@miataclub.org, not Miata
Magazine (Mediasource). It sure looks like a lame attempt to siphon off
Miata Magazine advertising revenue under false pretenses. About what we
expect of V&N these days.
Leon, they're giving the word "bozo" a bad name. If I were your car, i'd
be offended. :-)
[I'm copying Mediasource on this post, in case their attorneys are
interested.]
Grant Edwards
>Miata.net has never been maintained by Vince and Norm. Vince and Norm's
>web site is http://www.miataclub.org
Whatever happened to the rule that .org domains were for non-profit
organizations? Last time I registered a domain it was stil in effect, but
it seems to have been abandoned. A friend of mine recently stated work at a
definitely-for-profit company that uses a .org domain.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Now I can join WEIGHT
at WATCHERS!
visi.com
Ephar
wrote:
>In article <p067ssgsgd89dsh4l...@4ax.com>,
>domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>>Miata.net has never been maintained by Vince and Norm. Vince and Norm's
>>web site is http://www.miataclub.org
>
>Notice that while the MCA site still bears the line:
>
>"For Miata Magazine advertising and submissions: mdias...@aol.com"
>
>the email link now actually goes to di...@miataclub.org, not Miata
>Magazine (Mediasource). It sure looks like a lame attempt to siphon off
>Miata Magazine advertising revenue under false pretenses. About what we
>expect of V&N these days.
>
>Leon, they're giving the word "bozo" a bad name. If I were your car, i'd
>be offended. :-)
Bozo will forever be associated with fun things, and to associate
the name with mcoA because it's owners are clowns also is uncalled
for.
Though Vince and Norm may be playing under P.T.'s rule that
"there's a sucker born every minute" doesn't make them bad, per-say,
just opportunists.
Heck, I paid $29 to maintain my membership after the magazine
scandal was announced just to see what happened. Oh well, I got 1
magazine. Personally the only thing I'd like from them now is
silence, which they appear to be experts at anyway.
They can keep the $29, I scraped the sticker off, and it's going
back to them on the back of the membership card with a letter
instructing them of a suitable disposal location. I also subscribed
to the Miata Magazine direct.
>
>[I'm copying Mediasource on this post, in case their attorneys are
>interested.]
Frank & Bambi
mcoA no more.
Team SEG
FCMC
SunRider
CFMC
Miata'a in Paradise? I think NOT!
YMMV
Kenneth Lyons
>I also subscribed
>to the Miata Magazine direct.
As did I. Though Barbara has offered to send the magazine to MCA members who
contact her (the boys didn't give her the membership list so she doesn't know
where to send it) I'm going to write off the MCA money and pay her for every
issue she sends me. She could probably use some help these days.
--
Ken Lyons
'97 Touring - Brilliant Black
'90 A - Classic Red
Inside the Beltway
Leon van Dommelen
With regard to your message below, it now has been over a month.
It is time to respond seriously.
The office of President of the Miata Club of America is a public one. While
no one likes legal risks, they do come with the job.
By all means feel free to pass any response to the issue below past your
lawyers for their approval. But I and many others now want to know what is
the background behind the issue referred to below. And how the MCA is working
to fulfil its responsibility to keep the Miata society (at least in the
USA) a united and happy family.
Sincerely,
Leon van Dommelen
[Posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata and E-mailed to relevant addresses.]
domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
Leon van Dommelen
Delivered-To: domm...@scri.fsu.edu
X-Sender: s...@pop.mindspring.com
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:44:31 -0500
To: domm...@miata.net (Leon van Dommelen)
Subject: Re: Miata Club of America Controversy
Sender: ro...@athens.eunos.net
Leon,
We all have to wait until the judge's ruling on November 8.
All the best,
Vince
At 08:24 PM 10/23/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Vince, Norm,
>
>With regard to your message below, it now has been over a month.
>It is time to respond seriously.
>
>The office of President of the Miata Club of America is a public one. While
>no one likes legal risks, they do come with the job.
>
>By all means feel free to pass any response to the issue below past your
>lawyers for their approval. But I and many others now want to know what is
>the background behind the issue referred to below. And how the MCA is
working
>to fulfil its responsibility to keep the Miata society (at least in the
>USA) a united and happy family.
>
>Sincerely,
>Leon van Dommelen
>
>[Posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata and E-mailed to relevant addresses.]
>
>domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
Leon van Dommelen
About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
MCA has failed to meet their second, November 8, deadline at which
we would be fully informed about the MCA controversy
and MCA would supposedly stand vindicated.
I have seen enough and I have made my own determination of the
case, based on the facts available to me, which follows now.
On September 12, S Vince Tidwell of the Miata Club of America
told us:
>From: S Vince Tidwell <s...@mindspring.com>
>Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:28:11 -0400
>
>Leon,
>
>Thanks for your letter. There is indeed another side to the story and
>because of a lawsuit from MPG, our attorneys have advised us to refrain
>from commenting at this moment.
>
>With a month, this will be resolved and most everyone can get back to their
>lives of enjoying their Miata.
>
>All the best,
>
>Vince Tidwell
It has now been well over double this time, and the controversy has
*not* been resolved.
On Oct. 23, I wrote:
>Dear Vince, Norm,
>
>With regard to your message below, it now has been over a month.
>It is time to respond seriously.
>
>The office of President of the Miata Club of America is a public one. While
>no one likes legal risks, they do come with the job.
>
>By all means feel free to pass any response to the issue below past your
>lawyers for their approval. But I and many others now want to know what is
>the background behind the issue referred to below. And how the MCA is
>working
>to fulfil its responsibility to keep the Miata society (at least in the
>USA) a united and happy family.
>
>Sincerely,
>Leon van Dommelen
On Oct 31, S Vince Tidwell wrote:
>X-Sender: s...@pop.mindspring.com
>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:44:31 -0500
>
>Leon,
>
>We all have to wait until the judge's ruling on November 8.
>
>All the best,
>
>Vince
Since November 8 passed without a word from anyone, I did two things:
I subscribed to the "Pacer" service to allow me access to court records
and I read the information on Miata.net about the case. I will first
summarize my results for the court records that I have just obtained:
>10/17/00 25 Notice of Motion and Motion by defendant Norman Garrett,
> defendant Vince Tidwell, defendant Miata Magazine Inc,
> defendant Miata Club to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction
> over the person, insufficiency of service of process and
> process motion(s) referred to Judge Jeffrey T. Miller ]
> motion hrg set for 11/8/00 at 4:00 (bar)
I am *very, very* surprised. How can MCA suggest that a motion
to dismiss for *lack of jurisdiction* will *resolve* the issue???
Is this an issue that came up at the very last minute, that could not
have been foreseen? It appears not. Also from the records:
>10/3/00 20 Order by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller re application for TRO and
> preliminary injunction; granting in part/denying in part
> application for TRO [13-1]; dfts are enjoined from
> publishing any competing magazine until further order of ct;
> dfts are not to directly or indirectly make contact w/ a
> printer until order of this court; TRO is denied in all
> other respects; court sets pla's bond on this matter at
> $25,000; preliminary injunction shall be heard 11/8/00 at
> 4:00; supporting papers due 10/10/00; opposition due
> 10/24/00; reply due 10/31/00; dfts motion to dismiss will
> be calendared for 11/8/00 at 4:00 and filed by 10/17/00;
> opposition due 10/31/00; reply to motion to dismiss due
> 11/6/00; (jrl)
This motion was on the books *3 days* after S Vince Tidwell reassured us
that the case would indeed be *resolved* by November 8! S Vince Tidwell
is a *public figure* accountable to us all (or at least the MCA members
among us such as me.)
Next:
>11/3/00 40 Notice by dfts Norman Garrett, Vince Tidwell, Miata Magazine
> Inc, Miata Club of withdrawal of motion to dismiss for lack
> of jurisdiction over the person, insufficiency of svc of
> process and process; t/w exhibits (sld)
> [Entry date 11/06/00] [Edit date 11/06/00]
>
I am not a lawyer, but this looks to me that the motion to dismiss
for lack of jurisdiction (and hence to keep all of us Miata enthusiasts
uninformed) may have been frivolous. That it was not able to withstand
the smallest scrutiny.
The last I have:
>11/7/00 48 Minutes: Enter Order by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller:
> preliminary injunction hrg held. Motion for preliminary
> injunction - submitted. Ct to prepare order. TRO to remain
> in effect pending order. Court Reporter: D. Henson (sld)
> [Entry date 11/13/00]
>
>[END OF DOCKET: 3:00cv1571]
I do not know why 11/8/00 is not there. Maybe someone with experience
in these matters can tell me.
Next, on to part 2. I have decided to make a decision on the issues
myself after reading the documents available on miata.net. What
follows is my assessments about who would be judged legally "right"
if I was the judge. Feel free to think for yourself and make your own
decisions:
The contract is at http://www.miata.net/miatamagazine/contract.gif
This is the primary basis on which I base my judgment.
The MCA side is at http://www.miata.net/miatamagazine/mcaside.html
This one-sided point of view was send by MCA to the local Miata
Club chapters.
The MPG side is at http://www.miata.net/miatamagazine/mpgside.html
This one-sided point of view was Miata Magazine's response to
the MCA letter above.
My conclusions are:
1) MCA have withheld from Miata Magazine (MPG - since the magazine is PG
rated :) ) the $6/year they were required to contribute for the publication
of the four or five yearly issues of Miata Magazine. (Besides advertising
contributions.) This $6 comes out of the $29 a year membership fee from MCA
members like myself. The remaining $23 is unaccounted for, since the
MCA is a for-profit company, allowing MCA to keep closed books.
In particular the contract states: "MCA shall pay to MPG 19% of all
revenues received by MCA ..." No ifs or buts. MCA are in clear
violation of the contract on this point.
2) Subsequently, the MCA have withheld from MPG the mailing addresses
from the MCA members such as myself. This too is a clear
violation of the contract, that states: "MCA shall provide current
membership lists for all mailings." Period.
I may add that at NO TIME, I have given MCA the rights to withhold
my mailing address from Miata Magazine. By accepting my membership
fee, MCA obligated to providing me this Magazine. Their withholding
my mailing address is a violation on their part not only of the
contract with Miata Magazine, but also of their contract with *ME*.
Next, I will consider the actions of Miata Magazine, (MPG):
3) MPG want to offer/have already offered Miata Magazine on the
news stands. On carefully reading every line in the contract,
I see *absolutely nothing* that prevents MPG from doing so.
The contract does state: "MPG shall produce a magazine of high quality
which shall promote the interests of MCA and Mazda automobiles."
Promoting the interests of MCA is not the same as making every decision
based on the best interests of MCA only, ignoring the interests
of Miata Magazine.
I note that MPG has paid MCA a quarter million dollars for Miata
Magazine. This is well over $10 a member. It should be obvious
to the meanest intellect that MPG would insist on the freedom
to explore all avenues to pay down on that considerable debt,
and the contract reflects this. I assume MCA had that intellect
when they signed the contract.
As far as the interests of MCA is concerned, MCA spends only $6 of
each $29 membership fee on Miata Magazine, the other $23 going to
other club efforts. MCA *SOLD* Miata Magazine to an outside operator.
Clearly, by this action MCA has confirmed that Miata Magazine
is only a minor part of what MCA does. To now wring one's hands
and to state that making this minor component more widely available
would injure MCA financially and imply it can be stopped by *any* means,
even *illegal* ones, cannot be justified.
4) MCA alleges that Miata Magazine included content that was
clearly not in the best interest of MCA. While it is quite
to be expected that MCA would occasionally strongly disagree
with content they did not write, when selling the magazine,
they *signed away their right* to determine its contents. The
contract states emphatically: "MPG shall have the final authority
over the contents of any proposed issue." And let us here be
*very* clear. MCA was *very much* aware that they were signing
away their independent voice in Miata Magazine: the contract has
an initialed modification, changing "MCA shall have an opportunity
to review and comment upon each issue of Miata Magazine." The word
"comment" was changed into "advise". In any case, the next sentence
in the contract gives MCA only two days from "delivery of a proposed
issue" to comment. It should be clear that commenting at this
late stage gives little opportunity for a significant voice even
if MPG, who has the final authority, agrees with the comment/advise.
5) MPG has started a new magazine, "Ragtops and Roadsters".
This is a more serious question. The contract states: "[Either party]
will not [...] enter into any other magazine or newsletter business
relating to Miata automobiles..." I would read "relating to Miata
automobiles" as being another *Miata* magazine, and that it does
allow MPG to start a Magazine intended for the general Roadster
market. But if the true market of the Magazine would turn out to
be mainly Miatas, it would clearly violate the contract. And even
if it does not, I could see that the new magazine could be considered
to *relate* to Miatas. The suggestion by MPG that Ragtops and Roadsters
compares to a magazine dedicated to *Jeeps* is ludicrous. Yet, *certainly*,
this misty area of a *conceivable* violation does not justify the blatant
contract *violations* described in 1) and 2). It clearly calls for
a professional legal determination of how this vague part of the
contract should be read.
6) Finally, there is the question of the missing "promotional
issues." Despite the ridiculous mathematics by MPG, it is very
clear that MPG *have* violated the contract in this area:
"MPG agrees that it will provide a total of 90,000 magazines for
promotional purposes in each calendar year...". In each calendar
year is not the same as "averaged over the years."
If MCA would have been in a long and hopeless struggle with MPG
to obtain the missing issues to which they were entitled, it would
reasonably entitle them to withhold the $6/year membership contribution
pending resolution of the issue.
However, it would *not* entitle them to withhold the mailing addresses
of their members. First, that violates the implied contract between
MCA and their members such as myself. Second, making the complete
customer basis of Miata Magazine unavailable is clearly disastrous
for the Magazine and not morally justifiable based on a relatively
minor contract violation.
However, the moral shortcomings of MCA extend well *beyond* this
issue. For, the evidence shows *NO* protracted battle by MCA
to retrieve the missing issues. Quite to the contrary. In their
letter, MCA cites two reasons for withholding payments: (a) "Ragtops
and Roadsters", (b) Miata Magazine availability through nonMCA
means. The reason for withholding mailing addresses is cited as
(c) "content that was clearly not in the best interest of MCA."
As explained above, MCA has *no* rights to (b) and (c), and its rights
in (a) are clearly no more than finding clarification of the term
"relating to Miata automobiles" in a proper *legal* way. By their
own letter, MCA implicitly admit that they are using a discrepancy
in the books (the missing promotional issues) as justification to
use illegal means to illegally regain rights they have sold
away. That, in my final analysis, is a clear example of shady
business practices.
Next, my personal opinion:
The MCA is a for profit club, whose books are closed. There is
no evidence that its income does much good to the Miata community
at large, and may mainly go to its administrators. The MCA has
sacrificed the best interest of members like me. They did this
in an attempt to regain some of the rights they sold away for a
quarter of a million dollars, rights that should have been kept
within the MCA in the first place. The means they used to try
to achieve their goals seem illegal and unethical. In short, as
an MCA member my interests have been abused and I am now also
associated with the dubious business practices of its leaders.
When my MCA renewal comes up, I will not renew. I have already
subscribed to Miata Magazine directly, and I will give the remaining
$10 directly to our local club. Which is more than we have ever
received back from MCA ($0).
And if a viable alternative to MCA emerges, one that defends its
members instead of using them as pawns, that keeps its books and
actions open to its members, that uses its income to support
the Miata community at all levels, then I will join that Miata
Club.
Leon van Dommelen
Harry Neal
Dommelen) wrote:
>
> About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
>
Well done, Leon!
Harry et MaXin5
'99 Twilight Blue
Retired in France
NORA H E HAGUE
Nora and the Rollerskate
'99 silver, no snow yet
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000, Leon van Dommelen wrote:
>
> About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
>
> MCA has failed to meet their second, November 8, deadline at which
> we would be fully informed about the MCA controversy
> and MCA would supposedly stand vindicated.
>
> I have seen enough and I have made my own determination of the
> case, based on the facts available to me, which follows now.
>
(TRULY ENORMOUS SNIP)
Mark
domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
2¢ > About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
Leon,
Thank you for the complete and very interesting summary!
FWIW, obviously, the last court hearing was on November 7. I suspect that
Vince's use of "November 8" was done simply to allow him enough time to be
briefed on the happenings of November 7. I do not believe you will find
any record of any hearings on November 8.
Looking at the Court Minutes for November 7, it doesn't look like it
faired well for MCA. The Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) was continued
until such time as the judge rules on the Preliminary Injunction. As I
read it, this means that MCA can't provide any competing magazine at least
until the judge makes his ruling. If the judge grants the Preliminary
Injunction, I suspect THAT will mean that MCA can't provide any competing
magazine pending outcome of MPG's suit against MCA. If it goes to trial,
it could be a couple of years (Federal Courts in California are really
backed up).
If MCA can't send out a magazine for a year or more, I wonder how many
"members" they will have left at the end of that time?
Of course, the judge could continue the case without granting the
Preliminary Injunction. Time wil tell.
Mark
--
E-mail to: markbooth at home dot net
Leon van Dommelen
>In article <h90g1tccbeh6cdph1...@4ax.com>,
>domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>2¢ > About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
>
>
>Leon,
>
>Thank you for the complete and very interesting summary!
>
>FWIW, obviously, the last court hearing was on November 7. I suspect that
>Vince's use of "November 8" was done simply to allow him enough time to be
>briefed on the happenings of November 7. I do not believe you will find
>any record of any hearings on November 8.
>
>Looking at the Court Minutes for November 7, it doesn't look like it
>faired well for MCA. The Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) was continued
>until such time as the judge rules on the Preliminary Injunction. As I
>read it, this means that MCA can't provide any competing magazine at least
>until the judge makes his ruling. If the judge grants the Preliminary
>Injunction, I suspect THAT will mean that MCA can't provide any competing
>magazine pending outcome of MPG's suit against MCA. If it goes to trial,
>it could be a couple of years (Federal Courts in California are really
>backed up).
>
>If MCA can't send out a magazine for a year or more, I wonder how many
>"members" they will have left at the end of that time?
Zero percent, I think.
Which is really too bad for all of us, not just MCA. But if there
is no longer going to be a viable MCA, the faster people recognize
this, the earlier people will start to think about alternatives
and keep the Miata community together.
It still seems to me that a world-wide Miata club is a problem.
I would *love* to attend "Miatas in Germany", (recent post), but
how are I and Bozo going to get there? I believe Miata clubs
will continue to be regional.
>Of course, the judge could continue the case without granting the
>Preliminary Injunction. Time wil tell.
>
>Mark
Leon
fat...@tonsafun.com
<nhe...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>That was a very informative and complete summary! Thanks, Leon.
Hey Leon, post it again. I must have missed it somehow.
All liberals must die
Liberal Lyncher
fat...@tonsafun.com
Ummm, apologize for that dumb sig. Kids in here playing around
changed it and I didn't check it before sending.
Sorry.
fat...@tonsafun.com
Ummm, apologize for that dumb sig. Kids in here playing around
changed it and I didn't check it before sending.
Sorry.
Richard
2000LS Emerald Mica
Leprechaun
D Nutting
I would *love* to attend "Miatas in Germany", (recent post), but
how are I and Bozo going to get there? I believe Miata clubs
will continue to be regional.
True but it is great to see the world "rally" around one great car. As an
Americian in Europe, without my beloved Miata, hearing about "locals" and their
cars is exciting to me.
BTY I sent my money direct to the Miata Mag Publisher, not MCA, and still
haven't gotten an issue in months. Anybody else gotten theirs?
Dennis in Italy
Leon van Dommelen
>On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:02:01 -0500, NORA H E HAGUE
><nhe...@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>>That was a very informative and complete summary! Thanks, Leon.
>
>Hey Leon, post it again. I must have missed it somehow.
I put a copy at http://www.dommelen.net/miata/mcacon.html
Leon
NORA H E HAGUE
you'll get yours soon.
They were having a problem with the credit card thing a while ago and
maybe yours got lost in the shuffle.
Nora and the Rollerskate
'99 silver, somewhere under the snow
RS191
>Date: 11/20/00 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3a19eb64....@news.earthlink.net>
If that signature is a result of your kids "playing around", it is time to
get them some counseling. Oh, and no more WWF before bedtime
for them!..........Rich S.
Kenneth Lyons
>haven't gotten an issue in months. Anybody else gotten theirs?
I got the September issue, but it appeared to be an unsolicitated "freebie"
from the wording in the letter accompanying it. The credit card charge for my
subscription just hit my statement two weeks ago and the on-line subscription
said something about October being the issue I would receive first.
Hmmm....it's November 22.
James O'Malley
like me have paid our annual dues and are not receiving the magazine we
are entitled to. We are now expected to pay for it twice by subscribing
separatley to the magazine.
Harry Neal wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:15:32 -0500, domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van
> Dommelen) wrote:
>
> >
> > About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
> >
> Well done, Leon!
> Harry et MaXin5
> '99 Twilight Blue
> Retired in France
--
-------------------------------------------------
Jim O'Malley
Rag...@hgo.net
97 Black, PEP
Wheeling, WV
-------------------------------------------------
Leon van Dommelen
>The other comment you didn't address clearly is the fact that members
>like me have paid our annual dues and are not receiving the magazine we
>are entitled to. We are now expected to pay for it twice by subscribing
>separatley to the magazine.
Actually, I have been told that if you cancel your MCA membership,
they will give you a prorated refund. I would have to figure out my
MCA number first. :)
>Harry Neal wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:15:32 -0500, domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van
>> Dommelen) wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
>> >
>> Well done, Leon!
>> Harry et MaXin5
>> '99 Twilight Blue
>> Retired in France
--
b...@pacifier.com
against MCA for beach of contract. The suit should be for the refund of
the portion of the fees collected that was supposed to cover the cost of
providing the magazine (which is demonstrated that MCA cannot provide).
Unfortunately MCA doen't seem like the types that would willingly do
anything against their profits unless forced to by a court, so nicely
asking for the refund to cover the subscription cost would appear useless.
Just my thoughts,
Brian W
James O'Malley wrote:
> The other comment you didn't address clearly is the fact that members
> like me have paid our annual dues and are not receiving the magazine we
> are entitled to. We are now expected to pay for it twice by subscribing
> separatley to the magazine.
>
> Harry Neal wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:15:32 -0500, domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van
> > Dommelen) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > About the Miata Club of America (the MCA)
> > >
> > Well done, Leon!
> > Harry et MaXin5
> > '99 Twilight Blue
> > Retired in France
>
> --
Karl Kittler
of any kind. If you are suing on behalf
or as part of group to get a law changed
or action of some type accomplished, it
is an acceptable solution. If you want
to get money returned or paid, forget
it. For you trouble of filling out
paperwork you get a measly amount of
money. I've heard as low as 50 cents,
and you had to pay postage!
The lawyers on the other hand tend to
get huge amounts of money when the
judgment is in favor of the plaintiffs.
Unfortunately, suing in small claims
court as an individual isn't worth it
either. For the court costs alone, its
more than the cost of an average ($2.50
per issue) magazine annual
subscription. I don't subscribe, so I
don't know the exact cost. That's
assuming you win. If you lose, it's
even more money wasted.
But then again, you can't put a cost on
revenge.
--
The best advice I've ever received that
sounded the worst at the time was:
"Revenge is a dish best served cold."
--
"WARNING: Armed with a dangerous mind"
Mark
2¢ >In regards to a "Class Action Lawsuit"
2¢ >of any kind. If you are suing on behalf
2¢ >or as part of group to get a law changed
2¢ >or action of some type accomplished, it
2¢ >is an acceptable solution. If you want
2¢ >to get money returned or paid, forget
2¢ >it.
Getting some of your money back from MCA seems to be a simple matter.
Call them, tell them you wish to cancel your membership (they might not
even ask you why) and that you want a pro-rated refund. I've done it and
I know several others that have done it. In all cases, the refund arrived
within a couple of weeks.
T Rose
posts on this subject. What exactly was the controversy regarding the Miata
Club of America?
Tom, Silicon Valley
Bill and Julie Munro
Bill Munro
KENNETH BAST
against MCA for beach of contract. The suit should be for the refund of
the portion of the fees collected that was supposed to cover the cost of
providing the magazine (which is demonstrated that MCA cannot provide).
Unfortunately MCA doen't seem like the types that would willingly do
anything against their profits unless forced to by a court, so nicely
asking for the refund to cover the subscription cost would appear useless.
I did just that and received a check in the mail a month later!
Ken
NORA H E HAGUE
problem. The bottom line is you won't be getting Miata Magazine unless you
have provided the publishers (Media Source) with your address. Most people
have had to make a choice of maintaining their MCA membership
and subscribing directly (paying twice and getting two magazines) or
dropping MCA membership and subscribing directly (paying once and getting
one magazine).
It's a long and messy story; see the Miata.Net page :-)
Nora and the Rollerskate
'99 silver, less filthy now
Mark
As you've already subscribed to the Pacer service, I wonder if you would
be so kind as to keep an eye on the MPG vs. MCA situation and keep us
posted of any new developments from the court? I would imagine we will be
seeing some sort of ruling from the judge... any day now!
Thanks!
domm...@eng.fsu.edu
Below is the latest they have. It seems to me, why argue about the TRO
if there is a ruling going to be soon?
District Web PACER (v2.3)
[ SELECT EVENTS FROM THE DOCKET REPORT FOR CASE: 3:00cv01571
FOR THE PERIOD 11/08/2000 to 12/02/2000 ]
11/20/00 49 DISCREPANCY ORDER by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller accepting
document: decl of Lance Schall in support of plas' reply
memo of p/a from plaintiff MediaSource, plaintiff Barbara
Beach, plaintiff Phillip Wolfson , non-compliance with
local rule (other): the reply this decl is supporting is
not indicated on the docket, document is to be filed nunc
pro tunc to the date received (sld) [Entry date 11/21/00]
11/20/00 50 Declaration of Lance Schall by plaintiff MediaSource,
plaintiff Barbara Beach, plaintiff Phillip Wolfson in
support of plas' reply memo of p/a in support of
preliminary injunction appl on why MCA is itself
responsible for any loss of MCA "memberships" (Nunc Pro
Tunc 11/12/00) (sld) [Entry date 11/21/00]
11/20/00 51 DISCREPANCY ORDER by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller accepting
document: suppl decl of cnsl from plaintiff MediaSource,
plaintiff Barbara Beach, plaintiff Phillip Wolfson ,
non-compliance with local rule 15.1, document is to be
filed nunc pro tunc to the date received (sld)
[Entry date 11/21/00]
Docket as of November 28, 2000 7:10 pm Page 10
Proceedings include all events.
3:00cv1571 MediaSource, et al v. Garrett, et al
11/20/00 52 Supplemental decl of cnsl by plaintiff MediaSource,
plaintiff Barbara Beach, plaintiff Phillip Wolfson in
support of order continuing protections of TRO as a
preliminary injunction and objecting to withdrawal of
motion to dismiss; t/w exhibits (Nunc Pro Tunc 11/17/00)
(sld) [Entry date 11/21/00]
11/27/00 53 Order by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller granting request for order
continuing protections of TRO as a preliminary injunction.
Dft will continue to abide by the terms set forth in the
ct's order filed 10/3/00. Plas' bond shall continue to be
$25,000. (sld) [Entry date 11/28/00]
domm...@zeng.fsu.edu
Here is the latest. It seems to me, why argue about the TRO if there
is going to be a ruling soon?
[Sorry if this arrives twice. Had to cancel first one: it had my E-mail in it]
[END OF DOCKET: 3:00cv1571]
Mark
2¢ >Here is the latest. It seems to me, why argue about the TRO if there
2¢ >is going to be a ruling soon?
Leon,
Thanks! Obviously (and has already been mentioned by Ric Alan over on
Miata.net Forum), Mediasource was granted the Preliminary Injunction by
the court.
As for the ruling, perhaps you misunderstand. All that has happened to
date are hearings and motions on the various aspects of the case. The
lawsuit itself will not be tired until a future date (1-2 years). Due to
the Prelimiary Injunction now in force, MCA appears to be unable to supply
ANY magazine of their own until the case is setteled.
BIG win for Mediasource!
Mark
--
E-mail to: markbooth at home dot com
Leon van Dommelen
While looking up Miata forum for another matter, I noticed that the
Miata Club of America (MCA) is stating, in a recorded phone message at
(770) 205-8832 that Miata Magazine is not being received because
their "printer has been unable to fulfill their duties." THIS IS
AN OUTRIGHT FRAUD. The following court records show that MCA has been
ordered by the *District Court of Southern California* to restrain from
publishing Miata Magazine (more details in earlier messages in this
thread):
[ RECENT EVENTS FROM THE DOCKET REPORT FOR CASE: 3:00cv01571 ]
11/27/00 53 Order by Judge Jeffrey T. Miller granting request for order
continuing protections of TRO as a preliminary injunction.
Dft will continue to abide by the terms set forth in the
ct's order filed 10/3/00. Plas' bond shall continue to be
$25,000. (sld) [Entry date 11/28/00]
11/30/00 54 CMC order regulating discovery and other pretrial
proceedings by Magistrate Judge Leo S. Papas ; Proposed
final p/t conf ord by 9/14/01; E.N.E. Conference held;
final pretrial conference before Judge Miller set for 8:30
9/21/01 ;jury trial set for 9:00 10/23/00 ; Mandatory
Settlement Conf before Judge Papas set for 2:00 4/19/01
(andy) [Entry date 12/04/00]
The MCA phone message also notes that they are "working to resolve this
issue *shortly*." (emphasis in original.) THIS TOO IS AN OUTRIGHT FRAUD.
The above court records show that the jury trial is set for 10/23/01
(note typo). Unless MCA works out a settlement with the owners
of Miata Magazine, (which may be difficult since they engaged is
grossly unethical business dealings with them as well), there will
be no magazine until at least end of October. And that is only
assuming they will prevail in the case, an unlikely scenario
(see my earlier posts in this thread for more details.)
The message also notes "Your membership is being extended because
of all the times, don't worry about that." THIS TOO IS A FRAUD.
I would be *seriously* concerned that after a year of no Miata
Magazine, there will be enough members left for the MCA to
continue to exist, making a membership extension worthless.
I urge everybody to get a warning out to their local clubs
that MCA members might want to think twice before renewing their
membership. I will put one on our web site.
Each time I think that my opinion of MCA cannot sink any lower,
they go out of their way to prove me wrong. ;)
Leon
Robert Miller
My original subscription (dues?) may be lost, but can I get a magazine? How
many have I missed?
Rob
Leon van Dommelen
You can subscribe to Miata Magazine directly on miata.net. For $9 less
than MCA membership, but you will only get the magazine. Then again,
by now I feel it is worth *less* than nothing to be associated with MCA.
I subscribed directly some time ago. Need to keep up with what new goodies
are entering the market place. :)
The last issue I have is Volume 11, # 4. Marked September BTW;
is this right? Should I not have a December issue with the
season to buy goodies on us?
Miata Guy
-----------------------
It is with deep regret that I inform you of my resignation as President of
the Miata Club of America. I have also relinquished all ownership as well.
I'm certain that this does not come as a total surprise to you. Norman
(garr...@mindspring.com) will be acting President for now.
The holidays are a great time to relax and reflect and I will be taking
full advantage of a bit of a break. To you and the thousands of people of
good character I have had the fortune to befriend, I thank you.
All the best!
Vince
-------------------------
Guess with his portion of the MCA gravy train drying up...Vince's jumped
ship on Norm. Smooth move.
One down and one to go...time to reorganize the MCA!!
Leon van Dommelen
After all this fraud, I hope that any new club will be a *nonprofit*
one with *open* records. Or forget about me as a member.
Mark
domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
2¢ >After all this fraud, I hope that any new club will be a *nonprofit*
2¢ >one with *open* records. Or forget about me as a member.
Leon,
I would be careful throwing around the accusation of "fraud" so easily.
Would hate to see you get named in a court case with MCA as the plantiff.
FWIW, I personally feel that the next National Club (if there ever is one)
WILL be another for-profit organization. These days, it is impossible to
get more than 2 people to always agree upon anything. I am or have been a
member of other National Organizations. The back-biting and political
infighting ALWAYS becomes a major factor and, in some cases, the disputed
issue eventually becomes the "focus" of the club. Then, all of the good
ole regular members lose interest, stop participating and let their
memberships lapse.
If you've followed the discussions with regard to MCA over in Miata.net
Forum, it is easy to see that there are MCA members on BOTH sides of the
subject, and lots in between. Sorry, I just don't see such a diverse group
of people sitting down and working out a new and improved non-profit
National Club. (In fact, there are a few that I would be strongly opposed
to having on the board of such a club.)
The only real solution is going to be a for-profit club that is run by an
organization familiar with such things (yes, there are professional
for-profit car club organizers out there). If that organization offers
REAL and tangible benefits for our membership dollar, the majority of
Miata owners (including me) will flock to them.
Kevin
group.
I have only caught the 'tail end' of this magazine thing.
Can someone get me up to speed of the whole magazine/club issue?
Thanks
Kevin
"Mark" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-1912...@cx182661-a.fed1.sdca.home.com...
Stephan Guillou
there is a link that explains everything called "The Dispute Between Miata Club
of America and Miata Magazine"
Stephan Guillou
96 Montego Blue
Mark
<caa...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
2¢ >I have only just bought my first MX-5 and therefore only just joined this
2¢ >group.
2¢ >
2¢ >I have only caught the 'tail end' of this magazine thing.
2¢ >
2¢ >Can someone get me up to speed of the whole magazine/club issue?
You might also head over to the Miata.net Forum:
http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
Take a look in the "Clubs, non-clubs, and Community concerns" forum.
Leon van Dommelen
>In article <0equ3tsq0cfhg33o3...@4ax.com>,
>domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>2¢ >After all this fraud, I hope that any new club will be a *nonprofit*
>2¢ >one with *open* records. Or forget about me as a member.
>
>Leon,
>
>I would be careful throwing around the accusation of "fraud" so easily.
I am not accusing, I am summarizing the facts I posted. Reading my post,
you will see that clear fraud is being committed.
>Would hate to see you get named in a court case with MCA as the plantiff.
I would hate to see MCA lose another case. :)
>FWIW, I personally feel that the next National Club (if there ever is one)
>WILL be another for-profit organization. These days, it is impossible to
>get more than 2 people to always agree upon anything. I am or have been a
>member of other National Organizations. The back-biting and political
>infighting ALWAYS becomes a major factor and, in some cases, the disputed
>issue eventually becomes the "focus" of the club. Then, all of the good
>ole regular members lose interest, stop participating and let their
>memberships lapse.
>
>If you've followed the discussions with regard to MCA over in Miata.net
>Forum, it is easy to see that there are MCA members on BOTH sides of the
>subject, and lots in between. Sorry, I just don't see such a diverse group
>of people sitting down and working out a new and improved non-profit
>National Club. (In fact, there are a few that I would be strongly opposed
>to having on the board of such a club.)
>
>The only real solution is going to be a for-profit club that is run by an
>organization familiar with such things (yes, there are professional
>for-profit car club organizers out there). If that organization offers
>REAL and tangible benefits for our membership dollar, the majority of
>Miata owners (including me) will flock to them.
The precedent has been set that a National Miata Club *can* rake
in the membership dollars without providing a verifiable benefit.
Why would any new for-profit ownership not take that hint?
I am sorry to see that there are some people that you would be
strongly opposed to having on the National Miata Club leadership.
I am strongly opposed to having Bush as our next president, but
I have no plans to emigrate from the USA or even to start a
militia. ;)
I am for accepting volunteers that want to serve and taking a vote. :)
EricZieglr
options. I wanted to exclude weight for performance, and I already had that
stuff on my other cars.
Then I enthusiastically joined my local Miata Club, Sacramento Area Miata
Owners' Association (SAMOA). From the first meeting on, I was treated rather
like a bastard step-son for my resistance to add-on's (the word "purist" being
used with disdain by its "president"). Any discussions I tried to raise about
handling and performance generated only blank stares from the (mostly) old
farts who attended.
After sitting through countless disguised sales presentations, I decided to
forego participation in SAMOA's "rallies" and other self-financed advertising
events with the knowledge that "Miata Clubs" and "Miata Magazine" were
member-sponsored merchandizing endeavors.
I now no longer live in that area, enjoy the company of other Miata owners on
my own terms, and love driving my car with them or without them.
Ask me about my Miatas, and I'll try to get you to buy one. Ask me about
Mazda's transparent and typically half-baked promotions, and I'll be showing
you my quickly-receding "MMMIATA" vanity plate.
Eric Ziegler
Leon van Dommelen
A member of our local club E-mailed Barbara Beach and apparently she
E-mailed back that he would not be getting Miata Magazine anymore
through his MCA membership, that runs out in May. So he subscribed
directly.
I have some difficulty with this claim by Beach. What if MCA
suddenly decides to back down and provide the missing funds and
mailing list? Miata Magazine would still be under contract to
MCA to provide the Magazine.
Leon
[cc: Barbara Beach]
Lanny Chambers
>What if MCA suddenly decides to back down and provide the missing
>funds and mailing list?
Wouldn't you assign this roughly the same order of probability as, say,
Dubya suddenly deciding he'd rather enter a Buddhist monastery in Tibet
than be president and get WWF on cable for free?
--
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
alignment suggestions:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
Leon van Dommelen
>
>A member of our local club E-mailed Barbara Beach and apparently she
>E-mailed back that he would not be getting Miata Magazine anymore
>through his MCA membership, that runs out in May. So he subscribed
>directly.
>
>I have some difficulty with this claim by Beach. What if MCA
>suddenly decides to back down and provide the missing funds and
>mailing list? Miata Magazine would still be under contract to
>MCA to provide the Magazine.
>
>Leon
>
>[cc: Barbara Beach]
Reply received from Beach:
Leon. Thanks for your note. Norm made it very clear to me the last time I saw
him in Georgia that the club would not be using my Miata Magazine. If indeed
there was a settlement then I am sure something would be worked out but as
for now I can only reflect things as they are.
Leon van Dommelen
>In article <0tf54tgbu84ktgjef...@4ax.com>,
>domm...@zmiata.net (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>>What if MCA suddenly decides to back down and provide the missing
>>funds and mailing list?
>
>Wouldn't you assign this roughly the same order of probability as, say,
>Dubya suddenly deciding he'd rather enter a Buddhist monastery in Tibet
>than be president and get WWF on cable for free?
I do not see what other real options Garrett has. Even if he wins
in court, unlikely, this will be 9 months from now. By that time
there will not be much left of the MCA.
Having MM on the newsstands and available elsewhere will drain members
too, but not that rapidly.
Leon