Is synthetic oil okay? Mazda says no (!)
Adam Drew
wrote a letter to Mazda NMAO about the use of synthetic engine oil in my
'99 Protege, to which they responded that it was NOT OKAY.
"Unfortunately, as the manufacturer, we cannot recommend that synthetic
oil be used on any of our vehicles as it could possibly cause damage to
the engine. If it had been found that any outside influence or
aftermarket product caused damage to any component of the vehicle, the
manufacturer's warranty would be void."
What do ya'll think? I would've posted this in rec.autos.makers.mazda,
but there doesn't seem to be anybody in there yet, really (only like
three posts). Thanks for the help!
I would appreciate it if you could send replies to my email address.
Adam Drew
Dotti B.
I thought it was me. I have been using synthethic oil on my 99 Miata from the
first oil change. It never occurred to me to think it might not be o.k. My
mechanic strongly recommended it. I am at the 30,000 mile point, not sure
whether to go to Mazda for advice or my own mechanic. He is also a friend, so I
trust him completely. good luck, Dotti
DOTTI B. SILVER 99 #4
Eric Lucas
> "Unfortunately, as the manufacturer, we cannot recommend that synthetic
> oil be used on any of our vehicles as it could possibly cause damage to
> the engine. If it had been found that any outside influence or
> aftermarket product caused damage to any component of the vehicle, the
> manufacturer's warranty would be void."
>
> What do ya'll think?
Boilerplate. When pressed, I believe this is the position that all car
makers take regarding synthetics. They're just setting you up for the
day when they void the warranty because you farted at the wrong time
while driving the car. Dealers are slime. Understand this and you can
readily understand behavior like this.
> I would've posted this in rec.autos.makers.mazda,
> but there doesn't seem to be anybody in there yet, really (only like
> three posts).
It's not a real group. It only exists on a few newsservers, probably as
a default ghost group to fill in the heirarchy above
rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata, which was created as an orphan group and
still is one, as far as I know. And as far as I know, the different
servers that have the group have no way of trading posts back and
forth. I would bet that the few posts you do see are all from users of
your ISP.
Eric Lucas
Leon van Dommelen
>I just purchased a Mazda (not a Miata, but this pertains to it, too). I
>wrote a letter to Mazda NMAO about the use of synthetic engine oil in my
>'99 Protege, to which they responded that it was NOT OKAY.
>
>"Unfortunately, as the manufacturer, we cannot recommend that synthetic
>oil be used on any of our vehicles as it could possibly cause damage to
>the engine. If it had been found that any outside influence or
>aftermarket product caused damage to any component of the vehicle, the
>manufacturer's warranty would be void."
I wonder whether Mazda was already nuts before Ford took over management?
Anyway, unless it specifically states in your owners manual that
oil must be nonsynthetic, (my 96 does not) I really doubt they have a
leg to stand on, even assuming synthetic oil would cause damage, as
far as warranty is concerned.
I am wildly guessing they were trying to write: "We believe that leakage
of seals may occur if older engines are switched over to synthetic, so
we recommend you stick to conventional oil for older engines", but then
the Mazda BAD (Beans Assesment Department) found out that incompetent
lawyers drink less coffee than competent mechanics.
Leon ;)
--
Leon van Dommelen, 99 Human Bozo, 96 white Sebring Miata
-------------------- Have Miata, will travel -------------- Whitefish
REMOVE THE "z"s -> domm...@zmiata.net www.eng.fsu.edu/~dommelen
AirMaleFL
>of seals may occur if older engines are switched over to synthetic, so
>we recommend you stick to conventional oil for older engines",
Has anyone had this problem at all?
Just wondering
ChuckG White 96a
Airm...@aol.com
Jay Slabotsky
they don't use synthetic oil in production, the don't want to take the
chance that some brand out there will have an ingredient that eats seals or
some other nonsense. When it comes down to a warranty claim, they can't
possibly know you're using synthetic unless you tell them.
As for which one to use: Tests have proven that synthetic works better
under high stress, but if you're not a race driver, mineral oil is probably
just fine.
FWIW,
Jay
AirMaleFL <airm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990720094858...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
DLynch
Jay, up here in the north there are really good reasons for using synthetic
oil. It protects better in the cold.
Dave
London, Canada
BHotaling
out of oil? And have you ever read here or elsewhere an owner say absolutely
positively don't use synthetic? Albeit the breakin periods and preferences....
All we ever hear is good... so let's not jump on a rumor that "Mazda
says...." :)
Back to the color wars <smile>
Bob in Orlando
Adam Drew
of strange, when I know that MANY people have used synthetic oil with no
problem.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Adam Drew |
| '99 Mazda Protege LX 5-speed 0.1k and counting |
| users.technonet.com/~adrew -- ad...@technonet.com |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Adam Drew
> makers take regarding synthetics. They're just setting you up for the
> day when they void the warranty because you farted at the wrong time
> while driving the car. Dealers are slime. Understand this and you can
> readily understand behavior like this.
Thanks...that's pretty much what I thought.
> > I would've posted this in rec.autos.makers.mazda,
> > but there doesn't seem to be anybody in there yet, really (only like
> > three posts).
>
> It's not a real group. It only exists on a few newsservers, probably as
> a default ghost group to fill in the heirarchy above
> rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata, which was created as an orphan group and
> still is one, as far as I know. And as far as I know, the different
> servers that have the group have no way of trading posts back and
> forth. I would bet that the few posts you do see are all from users of
> your ISP.
No, actually it just recently appeared, just as I was trying to figure
out how to create it. Back in April when I bought my Protege, I did a
search for "Mazda" on my ISP's news server and the only NG that came
back was this one. They three other posts in there are from three
separate ISP's. I am positive, because I use a local ISP that only
serves my city.
Thanks again for the help...I've found this group to be a lot more
"grown-up" (mostly...) than rec.autos.makers.honda. (I traded in a '84
Accord.)
Adam - "Sandalwood" '99 Protege LX 5-speed
ad...@technonet.com
Stephen A. Mills
Adam Drew <ad...@technonet.com> wrote:
>I just purchased a Mazda (not a Miata, but this pertains to it, too). I
>wrote a letter to Mazda NMAO about the use of synthetic engine oil in my
>'99 Protege, to which they responded that it was NOT OKAY.
>
>"Unfortunately, as the manufacturer, we cannot recommend that synthetic
>oil be used on any of our vehicles as it could possibly cause damage to
>the engine. If it had been found that any outside influence or
>aftermarket product caused damage to any component of the vehicle, the
>manufacturer's warranty would be void."
>
>but there doesn't seem to be anybody in there yet, really (only like
Synthetics are undoubtedly safe for our piston engines, but I have heard they
are very bad for the rotaries (rx7), which might begin to explain mazda's
response.
I wouldn't worry.
Pam Barker
-----------------------------------------------------
Pam Barker, '99 red lp
St. Petersburg, FL
<<change .com to .net to reply>>
.
Ron Rauscher
relevant: Anyone heard of a product called "Restore". It is an oil
additive that my mechanic says is good for an older engine. Smooths out
and fills in the the pits and grooves and other wear and tear, and can
increase compression noticeably.
Any experience?
Ron
Michelle Hall wrote:
>
>
> "Dotti B." wrote:
>
>> I also found only 2 or 3 posts in our newsgroup. Since I am a
>> computer newbie,
>> I thought it was me. I have been using synthethic oil on my 99 Miata
>> from the
>> first oil change.
>
>
> Food for thought. I remember reading somewhere (possibly MCA's
> magazine?) that it's best to break in a car with mineral oil because
> the parts that the oil lubricates contain microscopic pits that the
> mineral oil fills in and smoothes out, i.e. better performance in the
> long run? Then you can switch to synthetic after that, if you prefer
> it. Someone, or several someones, on this newsgroup will probably
> know more about these details. Anyone?
>
> Personally, I switched to synthetic at my first oil change, too,
> having read the article too late for me. I haven't noticed anything
> unusual.
>
> Michelle
BHotaling
>additive that my mechanic says is good for an older engine. Smooths out
>and fills in the the pits and grooves and other wear and tear, and can
>increase compression noticeably.
* so does heavier weight oil or adding honey... don't do the latter but expect
it from some used car dealers. :)
Bob in Orlando
Michael Heinitz
oil (Mobil 1) and change it frequently. My brother used Restore in his old
240Z, which smoked and fouled plugs, and it helped for about 200 miles and
then he started loosing power and smoking again. If it's not too late, I'd
switch to synthetics and avoid the Restore.
-Michael
Ron Rauscher wrote:
> I'm going to start a new thread on this also, but this topic seems also
> relevant: Anyone heard of a product called "Restore". It is an oil
> additive that my mechanic says is good for an older engine. Smooths out
> and fills in the the pits and grooves and other wear and tear, and can
> increase compression noticeably.
>
wedgie
synthetics have much better and more consistent properties than dino oils.
here's what mobil says:
http://www.mobil.com/consumer/mobil1/
there are some other places on the net i've found that have very informative
papers about the subject of syn oils. unfortunately, i can't recall what they
are, but a search should get you there.
the thing about these oils is that compared to dino oil they don't thicken
when cold and therefore flow better at low temps, and don't thin out as much
at high temps. they require less additives than dino oils (which is actually
what makes multi-viscosity dino oil work as it does). also, they don't break
down over time like conventional oils. it's rumored that they can last as long
as 25K miles (but find a filter that can work this long!).
most engine wear takes place at startup; any oil that can protect at low temps
is going to protect and prolong engine life. this fact was noticeable in my
car right after i switched to Mobil 1 - the lifter "clacking" on startup went
away almost immediatly compared to conventional oil of the same weight.
many on this group (including myself) have noticed considerable positive
effects from using synthetics in the gearbox; extrapolate this to the engine
as well.
i'm a believer. ymmv.
regarding mazda's position: i wonder if they have an interest in companies
manufacturing conventional oil? money's always the explanation, you know.
hd
In article <vFal3.1142$sB.3...@newse2.tampabay.rr.com>, "Pam Barker"
<P...@Barker.com> wrote:
>I know that people seem to swear by synthetic motor oils, but I wasn't =
>clear on the advantages over organic oils. Was hoping someone could =
>recap and/or point out where this topic is already covered. Thanks in =
>advance.
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Pam Barker, '99 red lp
>St. Petersburg, FL
><<change .com to .net to reply>>
>..
>
Andy!
My Mazda dealer here in the UK actually offered me Mobil 1 instead
of the standard stuff saying it was better.
I don't think therefore it would invalidate the Warranty since then
they'd be in a bit of trouble...
-andy
Adam Drew wrote in message <3793AA76...@technonet.com>...
>I just purchased a Mazda (not a Miata, but this pertains to it,
too). I
>wrote a letter to Mazda NMAO about the use of synthetic engine oil
in my
>'99 Protege, to which they responded that it was NOT OKAY.
>
>"Unfortunately, as the manufacturer, we cannot recommend that
synthetic
>oil be used on any of our vehicles as it could possibly cause
damage to
>the engine. If it had been found that any outside influence or
>aftermarket product caused damage to any component of the vehicle,
the
>manufacturer's warranty would be void."
>
>What do ya'll think? I would've posted this in
rec.autos.makers.mazda,
>but there doesn't seem to be anybody in there yet, really (only
like
>three posts). Thanks for the help!
>
Magic2626
If you use their oil and change it every 4000 miles they will warranty the
engine for:
300,000 miles with Castrol GTX
400,000 miles Castrol Syntec Blend
500,000 miles Castrol Syntec 100% Synthetic
So one option might be to use Castrol Syntec and let Castrol provide the
extended warranty.
MarkT
Magic2626 wrote in message <19990726011421...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
Randy Maheux
didn't use synthetics. The reason is that some cars will
develop leaking seals that have to be replaced under
warranty. He also said that unless the Owner's Manual
expressly states that synthetics should not be used, Mazda
can't stop you from using them and they are responsible for
repairs.
The rear seal in the transmission of my M2 had to be
replaced at 8000 miles, a couple of months after switching
to Red Line MTL. The dealer put in the Red Line I provided
after the repairs. The service Manager's parting words
were, See you in a few months for a new seal!" After 8000
miles, all is well - maybe I'll be lucky this time.
Randy Maheux
Magic2626
>
Castrol North America Automotive Inc
Limited Warranty Center
PO Box 748
Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-9916
phone 1-800-570-7011
Michael Heinitz
Because the detergents in the synthetic oils will "clean-up" the varnish and
sludge left by conventional oils. If your engine seals are worn, the synthetic
will break down the oil varnish that may be maintaining the seal. So it's not
that the synthetic oil caused a leak,
it just that it revealed worn seals by cleaning the varnish off of them. Many
people have switched to synthetic on 100,000+ mile engines with no leaks, so it
just depends on how often you changed your oil and the overall conditon of your
engine.
-Michael
Classic 90B
Magic2626 wrote:
> Maybe this is true on some cars... but from what I have learned only 20 year
> cars might have a problem.
>
> I think that most seal problems with synthetic oil happened with the first
> generation of synthetic oil 20 years ago. Modern synthetics likely have the
> same seal swelling additives as conventional oil.
>
> I have been running Mobil 1 in the engines of many cars and Redline MTL/ MT90/
> 75-90 in the transmission/ differentials of many cars. NO LEAKS, not even on
> high mileage cars I switched over from conventional.
Magic2626
Magic2626
debate in aviation and diesel truck forums is different.
Diesel trucks are likely to now use synthetic gear lube in the gearbox and
differential... the benefits are almost undisputed. Mineral oil based CH-4
diesel oil is superior to synthetic in solvency and deposit control , so
synthetic or mineral/ synthetic blends are often used only in very cold
weather.
The owners, mechanics, and engine rebuilders of aircraft with piston engine
debate the merits of 30W mineral vs multi-grade mineral or synthetic blend
oils.
Deposit control seems to favor use of mineralor mineral/ synthetic blend lubes.
Cold start lubrication is the reason many favor multi-grade oils especially
the synthetic blends.
But reduced wear hasn't been observed by any newsgroup members with synthetic
blend use.... but some did observe better compression test results.
Seal leaking does not get a mention.
My personal experience is that even in 16 year old cars with high mileage...
that switching to synthetic did not cause a leak.....it only reduced oil
consumption and the engine seemed to run just a little bit better