Jeep Wrangler or Mazda Miata?
Daniel Y. Chang
In short, which one is more fun?
I'm a student and I'm wondering which one of these should I get for my
next vehicle.
Jeep seems to offer some more praticality, topless and a few more seats,
but much less on-road handling, probably worse reliability, and drinks
more gas.
Miata, on the other hand, offers the same open air but more sporty touch,
great road feel, great drivers car, but its practicality as a primary
vehicle for a student is questionable, and the price tag is no longer as
attractive as it was a few years ago.
Both has good looks: jeep's rugged appearance and Miata's design elegance.
I'm a 6'2" guy, and my test drive made me felt a bit too exposed in the
miata (I have a long torso). I do like to go off road though I'm not sure
there are too many places for that. I am a G-force junkie and Miata
satisifies in that respect, as well as its precise steering and shifter
feel. Haven't driven the jeep yet, so I can't say too much about it.
I'm not sure which one is to tip to, so I'm here in desperation looking
for any advice or comments. If you've got any, let me know!
Thanks in advance!
Dan
--
http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~dyc96001
"It is only about things that do not interest one that one can give a really unbiassed opinion, which is no doubt the reason why an unbiassed opinion is always absolutely valueless." -Oscar Wilde
Marjorie Alexander
Daniel Y. Chang wrote:
>
>
> In short, which one is more fun?
>
> I'm a student and I'm wondering which one of these should I get for my
> next vehicle.
>
> Jeep seems to offer some more praticality, topless and a few more seats,
> but much less on-road handling, probably worse reliability, and drinks
> more gas.
>
> Miata, on the other hand, offers the same open air but more sporty touch,
> great road feel, great drivers car, but its practicality as a primary
> vehicle for a student is questionable, and the price tag is no longer as
> attractive as it was a few years ago.
>
> Both has good looks: jeep's rugged appearance and Miata's design elegance.
> I'm a 6'2" guy, and my test drive made me felt a bit too exposed in the
> miata (I have a long torso). I do like to go off road though I'm not sure
> there are too many places for that. I am a G-force junkie and Miata
> satisifies in that respect, as well as its precise steering and shifter
> feel. Haven't driven the jeep yet, so I can't say too much about it.
>
> I'm not sure which one is to tip to, so I'm here in desperation looking
> for any advice or comments. If you've got any, let me know!
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Dan
Well, give up any notion of handling, pick-up and fuel economy in the
Wrangler. I bought my '89 Soft Top Wrangler new and I love it. I have
taken care of it, and it has taken care of me. And, it's purely
functional. Even though I live in off-road heaven (Boulder, CO) I do not
take my buggy off-road, well, sort of, I live a mile up a steep dirt
road in the foothills.
Nevertheless, I vote Jeep. Just learn the value in preventative
maintenance and your Jeep will serve you well.
Margie
--
The Max Book, the story of my unconditional commitment to my dog, Max
http://www.themaxbook.com
Shift..t-shirts designed by graphic designers
http://www.concentric.net/~msalex/
Jerry Bransford
I wouldn't worry about a Jeep's reliability Daniel. The Jeep's 4.0L
engine has been around a lot longer than the Miata. Come to think of,
I'd be willing to bet the Jeep is *more* reliable (and certainly more
rugged!!!) than the Miata. You'll see a lot of women driving Miatas,
they're very popular with women! Not too many cars that have the good
image the Wrangler does.
Regards,
Jerry
--
NOTE: To reply, remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address.
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL, C.A.P., KC6TAY
The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
Jerry Bransford
Marjorie Alexander wrote:
>
> Daniel Y. Chang wrote:
> >
> >
> > In short, which one is more fun?
> >
> > I'm a student and I'm wondering which one of these should I get for my
> > next vehicle.
> >
> > Jeep seems to offer some more praticality, topless and a few more seats,
> > but much less on-road handling, probably worse reliability, and drinks
> > more gas.
> >
> > Miata, on the other hand, offers the same open air but more sporty touch,
> > great road feel, great drivers car, but its practicality as a primary
> > vehicle for a student is questionable, and the price tag is no longer as
> > attractive as it was a few years ago.
> >
> > Both has good looks: jeep's rugged appearance and Miata's design elegance.
> > I'm a 6'2" guy, and my test drive made me felt a bit too exposed in the
> > miata (I have a long torso). I do like to go off road though I'm not sure
> > there are too many places for that. I am a G-force junkie and Miata
> > satisifies in that respect, as well as its precise steering and shifter
> > feel. Haven't driven the jeep yet, so I can't say too much about it.
> >
> > I'm not sure which one is to tip to, so I'm here in desperation looking
> > for any advice or comments. If you've got any, let me know!
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Dan
>
> Well, give up any notion of handling, pick-up and fuel economy in the
> Wrangler.
I can agree with the Wrangler's less than stellar fuel economy (15-16
mpg around town with the 4.0L engine), and while the new TJ doesn't
handle nearly as well as the Miata does, it's handling is MUCH improved
over all earlier Wranglers since going with the totally all new
suspension for 1997. It drives and rides great both off *and* on road
now, where as earlier CJs and Wranglers were notorious for poor handling
on the street. As far as pick-up (acceleration) goes, the TJ 4.0L six
will SMOKE the Miata, the TJ 4.0L engine makes the TJ scream! The Miata
has a too of an tiny engine (IMHO) and in my opinion makes it a pretty
lethargic ride. The 181 HP in the 4.0L equipped Wrangler is an
*extremely* fast and powerful engine, especially for the size and weight
of the TJ Wrangler.
ScAnDaL
Jerry Bransford (jer...@cts.comnospam) wrote:
: Marjorie Alexander wrote:
: >
: > Daniel Y. Chang wrote:
---bunch 'o miata vs jeep stuff condensed to reader's digest format---
[...snip...snip...]
I own both a Jeep ('71 CJ5) (also had a '95 which I swapped for ->) and a
Miata ('96M). As far as practicality neither are - Jeep sucks for gas
mpg and noise and the Miata doesn't have much room (but I'm single so it
doesn't bother me ;) ). As far as the fun factor goes they both blow the
top off the scale, but in different areas. You'll just have to bite the
bullet and figure out which part is more important to you. It's like
comparing apples to oranges.
What I'd suggest is to buy a new/used Miata and get an old decent CJ. The
CJs should be rather inexpensive now that it's winter (spring/summer prices
are higher).
I don't think it's fair to compare the two, they are two totally different
vehicles with different purposes.
Just my my $0.02.
l8r,
scandal
FYI, in my experience the Jeep has had higher maintainance costs due to the
4 wheel drive, tires, gas, etc.
--
sca...@Intrigue.org
If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow your socks off.
Ben Stahl
In article <330E64...@cts.comnospam>, jer...@cts.comnospam wrote:
> I wouldn't worry about a Jeep's reliability Daniel. The Jeep's 4.0L
> engine has been around a lot longer than the Miata. Come to think of,
> I'd be willing to bet the Jeep is *more* reliable (and certainly more
> rugged!!!) than the Miata. You'll see a lot of women driving Miatas,
Uh...wrong. In fact, I was up in the air between a Wrangler and a Miata,
and finally it was the reliability figures that tipped the balance for me.
Well, since it's like apples and oranges, I just decided sporty
convertible. Anyway, if you look at the Consumer Reports records (and
others), I think the Jeep figures will be a bit sobering. True, the
Wranglers aren't as bad as, say Jaguar or Pugeot, but Jeeps in general I
recall having a lot of "black" marks in there, whereas the Miatas came
through brilliantly with almost perfect marks across the board,
particularly '93s and later, ranking among the most reliable cars ever. Now
this was over a year ago, so of course you should check out the latest
figures. Frankly, I'd like to have a Wrangler to go with my Miata.
------------------------------------------
Ben Stahl | VISUAL ANTICS | San Rafael, CA
vis...@hooked.net
Hoppy
Daniel Y. Chang <dyc9...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote in article
<dyc96001-210...@paperboy.uconn.edu>...
>
> In short, which one is more fun?
<snipped>
It's like comparing apples to oranges. Both are nice vehicles, but built
for entirely different purposes and taste.
Hoppy
dsc...@rconnect.net
>> I wouldn't worry about a Jeep's reliability Daniel. The Jeep's 4.0L
>> engine has been around a lot longer than the Miata. Come to think of,
>> I'd be willing to bet the Jeep is *more* reliable (and certainly more
>> rugged!!!) than the Miata. You'll see a lot of women driving Miatas,
>
>Uh...wrong. In fact, I was up in the air between a Wrangler and a Miata,
>and finally it was the reliability figures that tipped the balance for me.
Gotta agree. There is NO way the TJ is more reliable than the Miata. I
went throught the same desission (Miatia vs. TJ), and choose TJ only
because I live in the snow belt.
The Miata is an awsume vehicle. It is one of the best handling sport
cars in any class, is very economical, and has a stellar reliability
record.
Don Carten
Daniel Y. Chang wrote:
>
>
> In short, which one is more fun?
>
I was always under the impression that the Miata was an excellent third
car while the Wrangler was a great second. If you've never owned a car
that was limiting in any way, I'd be careful when choosing something
like the Miata. . .Though cars like that are SO much fun to drive, its
limiting aspects, depending on how you are, may negate that joy.
My experience with these types of decisions?? Last summer I fell in
love with and bought a brand new, loaded, Firebird Formula. . .I,
believe it or not, had many practicality issues that I wanted met by my
new vehicle purchase, and the FB passed with flying colors. Basically,
I wanted a car with a 6 cyl or greater engine that had a REASONABLE
amount of backseat and cargo space.
Would the Miata have passed? No. . .(beyond the 6 cly or > req.) Why
was I being crazy about these requirements? I owned a Toyota Paseo for
four years. . .
ANYWAY! Winter came and I found myself without a car on those snowy
days. . .I knew about this problem, it, in my opinion, being the only
limitation of the FB as a daily driver. That being the case, the car
was *WAY* worse in the snow than I thought it would be. . .A 1" snowfall
could get me stuck in nearly flat ground.
SO! I bought a Jeep Wrangler. . .I believe that between the two
vehicles, I have one *SUPER VEHICLE*. Each car is very fun to drive,
and each leaves off where the other picks up in functionality. . .Which
one's better? It depends on one's taste and the conditions. . .
If, today, I had to get rid of one of my vehicles, I couldn't say which
one it would be. . .Though I've admired the Miata from afar many years
ago, I can't imagine it being a better primary vehicle than the Wrangler
-- in anyone's mind.
I'd give each a long hard test drive. . .hey, take 'em both shopping! I
doubt that you'll be disappointed with either choice, as I wasn't, even
after I "had" to buy a Jeep to fill in that one hole in the Firebird's
functionality.
James Zimmerman
To offer a slightly different opinion, I doubt any statistics from any
semi-reputable source, be they Consumer Reports or J.D. Power, will show
the Jeep to be as reliable as the Miata. If they exist, show me, but
I've never seen/read anything that would say a Jeep can match the
fantastic reliability record that the Miata has amassed. Miata's are
tough little cars. Jeeps are also much improved nowadays since the time
I almost bought one.
Vis a vi "ruggedness", yes, a jeep is certainly "more rugged" and the
Miata won't do as well in off roading (well, maybe if you bolt 30-inch
tall off-raod tires to it?) :-) By the same token, that Jeep
"ruggedness" translates to a poor handling, bumpy, unsophisticated ride,
and lousy handling COMPARED TO THE MIATA (so hold your flames, folks).
Incidently, my Miata averages 27mpg when driven "normally" and 21-22
under race conditions. Also, the top can be raised or lowered in 15
seconds - a Jeep required minutes, I believe, and you can't do it while
stopped at a traffic light.
My own experience with Miata reliability is thus: My 6-year old '91 has
been raced since new (autocrossing) in at least 20-25 events per year
(that's an above average number for the sport). This involves 5,000 rpm
launches from a dead stop, max acceleration to readline in each gear,
cornering at the limit on sticky race rubber, and maximum use of the
brakes. In it's 6 years I have replaced the spark plugs once, and
performed twice-yearly oil changes (Mobil 1 synthetic oil). That's it -
it has never been in the shop, never had its shocks, brakes, clutch, or
anything replaced, nothing. The car is totally factory stock with all
it's original parts except tires and spark plugs. How's that for
reliable? Street driving can't punish a car like that, so I think the
reliability of the Miata can be counted on.
Really, the Jeep and Miata are as different as night and day. You have
to really want a true sportscar (i.e. one not compromised in any way and
devoted totally to the driving experience) to live with a Miata daily.
They are SUPERB sports cars - but, you must ask yourself if you REALLY
WANT a REAL SPORTS CAR (most people really don't), or if you just want
something "sporty-looking" for your "image" and picking up women - if the
latter, any sporty coupe is a better choice for you (they'll have more
room, more trunk space, etc.), or the Jeep is fine. Also, at 6'2" you
are pushing the limits for fitting comfortably into a Miata.
Oh, and plenty of men drive Miata's - and RACE THEM! :-)
jZ
Lurton Keel
Don Carten wrote:
> after I "had" to buy a Jeep to fill in that one hole in the Firebird's
> functionality.
You are missing the point entirely. Miatas are for fun, period. I
drive mine daily commuting to and from work. After a really bad day,
even if the skies are threatening, I put the top down, put on the
Eagles, get out on the interstate, and within a couple of miles, I am
singing along with Don Henley and Glen Frye. You can't put practicality
anywhere in that senario. I think the Miata is good for my physical and
mental health.
On the practical side, I do the family grocery shopping and I have yet
to not make it home from Krogers. I sometimes have the passenger seat,
trunk, and package shelf all full. I have a friend who has a 5.0 liter
Mustang and the Miata actually has a larger trunk. He has to put his
golf clubs in the back seat. I can carry my clubs, a couple of pairs of
shoes, a few dozen balls, my gym bag with a change of clothes. The only
problem I have is that my driver has to lay diagonally across the trunk.
I also have a friend who has a Jeep and guess which vehicle we take when
we are going somewhere. Right, the Miata, and she drives.
Life is too short to be too practical and what's this about 6cylinders
or more. I would be more concerned about horsepower to weight ratio
than the size of my penis, uh engine.
Daniel Y. Chang
In article <5en1jd$2s...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, HAH...@prodigy.com
(James Zimmerman) wrote:
[snip]
> Really, the Jeep and Miata are as different as night and day. You have
> to really want a true sportscar (i.e. one not compromised in any way and
> devoted totally to the driving experience) to live with a Miata daily.
> They are SUPERB sports cars - but, you must ask yourself if you REALLY
> WANT a REAL SPORTS CAR (most people really don't), or if you just want
> something "sporty-looking" for your "image" and picking up women - if the
> latter, any sporty coupe is a better choice for you (they'll have more
> room, more trunk space, etc.), or the Jeep is fine. Also, at 6'2" you
> are pushing the limits for fitting comfortably into a Miata.
YES I WANT A REAL SPORTS CAR!! I really wanted it. You can't imagine the
dreams I had for owning a real sports car and driving a miata (because I
can afford it, unlike the porsche), knowing how amazing a vehicle it is.
Porsche boxter and Z3 holds less attraction for me because IMHO MX5 is a
bit purer in the sense of a sports car AND that it is more affordable
(what sporty coupes?). I went through extensive trouble just to rent one
so I could feel it (though it was unfortunatedly an automatic), and I
loved it!
Alas, as you mentioned, at 6'2" it's really pushing the limits, and that I
live in the snow belt and I'm a student (alone with an apartment to take
care of) so it's a lot of stuff to move around and such. This would be my
ONLY vehicle for most part of the year. So rationality kicks in and made
me wonder if the Jeep, equally fun but on different fronts, will suit me
better especially with the new off road improvements. I do love off
roading adventures a lot, but mostly just with mountain bike races.
Haven't done it with a 4x4. The only 4x4 I've driven was the isuzu rodeo
(which was popular for some reason) and I hated it for reasons too long to
list here. I am assuming Jeep is a purer breed with more of the offroading
in mind rather than slick comfort (and it can go topless!), though I'm yet
to test drive it.
The Jeep and Miatas are both excellent vehicles of their own right with
dedication to their purpose in their design. That's what made them great.
I understand this is comparing apple to oranges, but at least they are
both fun fruits. :-) Only if I can own them both!
>
> Oh, and plenty of men drive Miata's - and RACE THEM! :-)
I understand that, and must second it.
Thanks!
Daniel (still trying very hard to decide..)
--
http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~dyc96001
"We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."
-Anais Nin
Bugs
Drive a Wrangler over the Miata and see which one wins!
> I'm not sure which one is to tip to, so I'm here in desperation looking
> for any advice or comments. If you've got any, let me know!
>
--
When surfin' the net, stop in to GUERILLA AUDIO at
http://www.io.com/guerilla
And don't forget, Austin's premier original live music club,
http://www.io.com/steamboat
Barbara Petty
Well I drove both and bought a Miata. However, the new jeeps are really
nice. Huge improvement over the 96 models.
> Both has good looks: jeep's rugged appearance and Miata's design
elegance.
> I'm a 6'2" guy, and my test drive made me felt a bit too exposed in the
> miata (I have a long torso). I do like to go off road though I'm not sure
> there are too many places for that. I am a G-force junkie and Miata
> satisifies in that respect, as well as its precise steering and shifter
> feel. Haven't driven the jeep yet, so I can't say too much about it.
>
> I'm not sure which one is to tip to, so I'm here in desperation looking
> for any advice or comments. If you've got any, let me know!
>
>
JV
I too own an older ('83) Jeep CJ and a Miata and they are very different. I
wouldn't give either of them up. They are both fun to drive and it makes it
difficult to decide which one to use but since I live in Alaska I drive the
Jeep in winter (store the Miata for 6 months) and the Miata in the summer
unless i'm going offroad.
JV
>
> I own both a Jeep ('71 CJ5) (also had a '95 which I swapped for ->) and a
> Miata ('96M). As far as practicality neither are - Jeep sucks for gas
> mpg and noise and the Miata doesn't have much room (but I'm single so it
> doesn't bother me ;) ). As far as the fun factor goes they both blow
the
> top off the scale, but in different areas. You'll just have to bite the
> bullet and figure out which part is more important to you. It's like
> comparing apples to oranges.
>
craigs
the only thing the mazda has going for it over a jeep is handeling but by a
sport car standered it comes up way short, they tried to make it light, its
so light the bodt will twist, if not severly, uncomfoftably,... trust me ,
buy a jeep, if you dont like it in two years it has half decent resale, if
you have it after two years your probably hooked for life!!!!.. like the
rest of us!
Eric Lucas
craigs <cra...@bconnex.net> wrote in article
<01bc213b$3f21d460$170e05d1@spot-s>...
> the only thing the mazda has going for it over a jeep is handeling but by
a
> sport car standered it comes up way short,
In what way? It's the best modern approximation to the classic British
roadsters I've yet seen or driven. Or don't you consider those sports
cars?
> they tried to make it light, its
> so light the bodt will twist, if not severly, uncomfoftably,
Standard sports car behavior (which I've never particularly found
uncomfortable).
Have you ever driven a real sports car? Or is your definition of a sports
car something that rolls over if you take a corner at more than 5 mph?
Eric Lucas
dsc...@rconnect.net
>the only thing the mazda has going for it over a jeep is handeling but by a
>sport car standered it comes up way short, they tried to make it light, its
>so light the bodt will twist, if not severly, uncomfoftably,... trust me ,
okay then - name one sport car that is better (within $5K of the
Miata's price ($20K)). Having problems finding one?
Daphne Lowe
I am the only one who thinks that comparing a Wrangler to a Miata is
crazy? Surely there's gotta be someone else out there who finds it
unbelievable that not only the original poster, but several of the
posters to this thread have pondered the same dilemma?
OK, maybe its just me.....
I give up. Anyone wanna trade a Wrangler for a Series III?
Blake Lange
In article <visant-ya0231800...@news.wenet.net>,
vis...@hooked.net (Ben Stahl) wrote:
> .... Anyway, if you look at the Consumer Reports records (and
> others), I think the Jeep figures will be a bit sobering. True, the
> Wranglers aren't as bad as, say Jaguar or Pugeot, but Jeeps in general I
> recall having a lot of "black" marks in there, whereas the Miatas came
> through brilliantly with almost perfect marks across the board,
> particularly '93s and later, ranking among the most reliable cars ever. Now
> this was over a year ago, so of course you should check out the latest
> figures.
Consumer Reports has done a terrible job evaluating the Jeep Wrangler.
All they seem to do is copy and paste their opinion from one year to
another and make no effort to make a true evaluation. Check for
yourself. Their evaluation is the same, word for word, year after year
after year. Not much of value there. The great number of people who
share their knowledge about soving problems specific to the Jeep is
something that you can rely on. Is that true for other vehicles? Not a
mention of that in Consumer Reports. Their concept of reliability is not
based on the experience of people who are into Jeeps.
--
Blake Lange
Kensington, Maryland
Blake...@tcs.wap.org
Bugs
I thought so too. I didn't realize that so many people had that same
quandry! I thought you bought a SUV or sports car depending on your
lifestyle. Maybe not. Maybe both? I also thought most Jeepers were
pretty much of the buy-American variety, even though not many cars
(including Jeeps) are really all-American, anyway. I'm babbling. Later.
--
Kevin Bush
The ONLY deciding question required to figure out which vehicle is for
you is: "What do you want the vehicle to do?"
If your answer is "i want it to go real fast and do 90 degree corners at
100 mph all while on pavement" then hands down get the miata.
On the other hand if you answer is "To drive in all weather, in the mud,
the snow, the field, over the mountain, through the river" then get the
TJ as the miata will high-center on 3 to 4 grains of sand.
Who ever started this tread seems to think these two vehicles that are
on opposite ends of the transportation spectrum are comparable? I think
not. Might just as well ask if you should buy a refridgerator or a
stove.
words
Bugs wrote:
>
> I also thought most Jeepers were
> pretty much of the buy-American variety, even though not many cars
> (including Jeeps) are really all-American, anyway.
I find this odd. A friend of mine who was looking at a number of foreign
SUVs (and wouldn't even consider an American-made one) chose the Jeep
Grand Cherokee because it was "a Jeep and not of any nationalist
persuasion."<g>
I feel the same way. Although built in America and with roots in the
military, I've always thought of a Jeep as being outside the rah-rah
nationalist fervor. Our other vehicle is a Saab, before that a VW,
before that a Renault. All along, we always owned a Jeep. Go figure.
Jill, anxiously awaiting the arrival of her TJ this week<ss>
Christopher
craigs <cra...@bconnex.net> wrote in article
<01bc213b$3f21d460$170e05d1@spot-s>...
> the only thing the mazda has going for it over a jeep is handeling but by
a
> sport car standered it comes up way short, they tried to make it light,
its
> so light the bodt will twist, if not severly, uncomfoftably,... trust me
,
> buy a jeep, if you dont like it in two years it has half decent resale,
if
> you have it after two years your probably hooked for life!!!!.. like
the
> rest of us!
>
> cra...@bconnex.net
>
>
What planet are you from? Obviously you've never driven a Miata and
know nothing about them. The Miata has taken 3 SCCA championships
in the showroom C stock class. It IS the sports car standard. Since the
car
was designed as roadster (not a chop top coupe) the car is very rigid
especially with the power plant frame which locks the engine, transmission
and differential as one unit. Its definitely not for off-road use, but the
Wrangler
is no match for the Miata in any way, shape or form in the sports car
arena.
BTW, the Wrangler is just another Chrysler product -- nuff said.
Seamus
> Life is too short to be too practical and what's this about 6cylinders
> or more. I would be more concerned about horsepower to weight ratio
> than the size of my penis, uh engine.
>
> lur...@bellsouth.net
Come on. Be nice folk.
We are talking two vehicles here that have very devoted followings; and
neither of us are going to convince the other here. Me? I like the
wrangler, but if you get one, all Wrangler owners know, you have to have
some endearing quirks to put up with. Ditto the Miata. The Plus side for
each car *far* outweighs the negatives.
A Miata devotee wouldn't like the 80mph half door flap of the wrangler,
and the wrangler owner wouldn't like the size of the Miata.
That takes nothing away from either auto, here. They are two completely
different beasts; and comparing them is pointless. The Miata can't do the
Rubicon, and the Wrangler would get smoked hard by the Miata in a ralley.
As to the 4vs6 debate, that is up to the individual as well. My personal
opinion is that I like the 6 not for the masculinity enhancing effects as
the above poster suggests, but rather because I have yet to see a 4
banger, foreign or domestic, last much past 120,000 without a rebuild.
Jimbo
************************************************
-The weather is here, wish you were beautiful...
************************************************
Hakuna Matata
tre...@okanagan.net
> > the only thing the mazda has going for it over a jeep is handeling but by
> > sport car standered it comes up way short, they tried to make it light,
> What planet are you from? Obviously you've never driven a Miata and
> know nothing about them. The Miata has taken 3 SCCA championships
I just sold my YJ so that I could buy a Miata. I bought a brand new
'95 YJ a couple years back, and I've hated it since day 1. I was just
finally able to sell it. There are no comparisons between the two
vehicles. If you are just buying a car to look cool and drive around with
the top off the Miata is the way to go.
I bought my Jeep because I also wanted to use it offroad.
Unfortunately, I was too paranoid to do much with it offroad because I
didn't want to modify it and void my warranty, and because I was making
payments, I didn't want to destroy it either.
Thats why I'm buying a Miata for a daily driver, and I'm going to
search for an old CJ to use as a "bush-beast".
Don't buy a Jeep unless you plan on using it for what it was originally
intended, if you want to cruise, buy a sports car.
> BTW, the Wrangler is just another Chrysler product -- nuff said.
BTW, Ignorant comments in return don't make you look any smarter.
Take it from someone who knows ...
-TR (Former YJ Owner, Shopping for a Miata)
tre...@okanagan.net
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Seth Dillon
That this question is even being asked makes the answer obvious. It
appears the original poster is looking for a trendy, affordable, ragtop.
I doubt that that even though Wranglers are currently very popular with
kids the poster would be pleased with his purchase in the long term. The
Wrangler is a great multi-purpose vehicle, a blast to drive on and off
road, but does have certain limitations which make it not for every one.
By even considering a car like the Miata it appears that the poster has
no interest in "wheeling" and the true beauty of the Wrangler would go
unnoticed. Daniel, buy the Miata, I think you will be happier in the
long run.
However, remember, one day you might start wondering where that dirt
road you just drove by leads to, or it might snow where you live, or you
might start a hobby which requires a vehicle which can tow, or carry
something, then the Wranglers versatility will shine.
Regards,
Seth - 92 YJ
Scott E. Zimmerman
Kevin Bush wrote:
> Who ever started this tread seems to think these two vehicles that are
> on opposite ends of the transportation spectrum are comparable? I think
> not. Might just as well ask if you should buy a refridgerator or a
> stove.
I respectfully disagree. I had the same debate when I was in the market
for a new vehicle. The similarity of the two vehicles lies in the fact
that the top doesn't have to stay on . . . something 90% of all vehicle
owners can do nothing about!
I also think that owners of both are very loyal.
My .02
Cya
--
Scott E. Zimmerman (sco...@neta.com)
Scott
Bugs wrote:
>
> Drive a Wrangler over the Miata and see which one wins!
This is childish. If you can't say nothing nice, don't say nothing at
all.
IMHO, the Miata is the way to go, but that's 'cause I own one. I also
have a 3/4t Ford pickup and a 3/4t Suburban, so I have something that
can haul and something that hauls. If you're worried about function, the
Wrangler is the only way to go. If you're worried about fun, the Miata
is the way to go. The Miata is easier to live with on a day-to-day
basis, although not much. It is a very small car. But it does have
room for basic daily life, so long as there are only one or two people
in the family. Remember, you can't double date in a Miata, but you also
have no excuse not to double date if you drive a Jeep. :^) And if you're
worried about moving problems, that's what friends with trucks are for.
The resale value on the Miata is still pretty high. Even original '90
models are still selling for $8k or so, depending on options and color.
You can't go wrong with either vehicle, provided you remember the
compromises you must make when purchasing either vehicle. Each has their
downside. You just have to figure out which downsides you are willing
to live with in return for what enjoyment you get out of the vehicle.
And remember, you don't always drive off-road, but you *usually* drive
on-road.
Scott and Woody, who goes off-road every day, when dad drives up the
gravel driveway.
> And don't forget, Austin's premier original live music club,
^^^^^^
I get it now. Self-explanatory. GIG 'EM!!!!!!!!! :^)
dsc...@rconnect.net
Wrong - Wrong - Wrong.
The Miata & the TJ are both convertables. All of you off road
wanna-bes might not admit it, but the Miata MAY be a better
choice for a road car. I've owned 4x4's for the last 4 vehicles,
and chose the TJ over the Miata - but only by a slim margin
(I live in the snow belt). I LOVE to drive. I LOVE fast jap bikes.
I LOVE high performance cars. The Miata holds the road like
most of you will never experiance.
To tell you the truth - I want to own both. I'll try to buy
a Miata in a few years.
They are not Apples and Oranges. IMHO the Miata is a better
choice for those who don't have to deal with winter for 5 monts/year.
LET THE SUN SHINE IN! Drive fast. Drive hard. You only live once.
Goatta own a jeep at least once. Gotta own a sport car at least one.
Live and let live.
Seamus
Yes, but there the similarity ends. Both vehicles were designed for
entirely different modes of transportation. The Jeep is a truck!
Jimbo
> I respectfully disagree. I had the same debate when I was in the market
> for a new vehicle. The similarity of the two vehicles lies in the fact
> that the top doesn't have to stay on . . . something 90% of all vehicle
> owners can do nothing about!
>
> I also think that owners of both are very loyal.
>
> My .02
>
> Cya
>
> --
> Scott E. Zimmerman (sco...@neta.com)
>
> http://trojan.neta.com/~scottz
>
>
************************************************
pok...@ix.netcom.com
Eric Lucas wrote:
>
> Daniel Y. Chang <dyc9...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote in article
> <dyc96001-210...@paperboy.uconn.edu>...
> > next vehicle.
> >
> > Jeep seems to offer some more praticality, topless and a few more seats,
> > but much less on-road handling, probably worse reliability, and drinks
> > more gas.
> >
> > Miata, on the other hand, offers the same open air but more sporty touch,
> > great road feel, great drivers car, but its practicality as a primary
> > vehicle for a student is questionable, and the price tag is no longer as
> > attractive as it was a few years ago.
>
> As a matter of fact, I would think that the factors you list would make the
> Miata an *ideal* student car. Gas mileage and reliability make the Miata a
> *very* inexpensive car to drive and maintain. Also, I don't know for sure,
> but I suspect the insurance rates on the Miata are lower--its safety record
> and crash survivability are far better than many larger, supposedly much
> safer cars.
>
The insurance on the Miata is amazingly cheap. I've been with the same
insurance company all of my driving life (around 10 years) and I've had
about six cars insured with them. The Miata is the cheapest. No
kidding! I couldn't believe it myself. Just before I bought the Miata,
I had a 1983 Mazda RX7. When I got the Miata, I was prepared for a huge
insurance leap but, believe it or not, the insurance went *down.* I've
also owned a new Jeep Cherokee, and the insurance on that vehicle isn't
quite so reasonable.
As far as gas mileage goes, can't beat the Miata!
I don't think that you're really comparing apples to oranges here,
either. The Wrangler isn't really a "truck" and isn't that practical
for hauling (as opposed to a pickup, a Suburban, a sport utility, etc.).
I think it's more or less designed for fun, like the Miata. It's a
tough choice, but I think you should go with the one _you_ like best.
I've never had a Wrangler but, based on quality, economy, fun, and many
other factors, I'd definitely go with the Miata over the Cherokee if I
couldn't have both.
Hope this helps, and good luck with your decision!
Cherie
Lurton Keel
Here's a little interesting fact for all of you Jeepsters. 1 out of
every 4 sports cars sold in the United States is a Miata. That is a
lot bigger market share that Jeep has over the other SUV's. I think
the Ford Explorer is the #1 SUV.
Eric Lucas
Daniel Y. Chang <dyc9...@uconnvm.uconn.edu> wrote in article
<dyc96001-210...@paperboy.uconn.edu>...
> I'm a student and I'm wondering which one of these should I get for my
> next vehicle.
>
> Jeep seems to offer some more praticality, topless and a few more seats,
> but much less on-road handling, probably worse reliability, and drinks
> more gas.
>
> Miata, on the other hand, offers the same open air but more sporty touch,
> great road feel, great drivers car, but its practicality as a primary
> vehicle for a student is questionable, and the price tag is no longer as
> attractive as it was a few years ago.
As a matter of fact, I would think that the factors you list would make the
Miata an *ideal* student car. Gas mileage and reliability make the Miata a
*very* inexpensive car to drive and maintain. Also, I don't know for sure,
but I suspect the insurance rates on the Miata are lower--its safety record
and crash survivability are far better than many larger, supposedly much
safer cars.
About the only disadvantages are the off-road thing and cargo/passenger
space. If your problem is cargo space, what do you have to haul? I own my
own house, frequently get large objects from the hardware store, and the
Miata is still my only car. If I need to haul anything too large, I have
plenty of friends who will gladly trade dinner for a trip to Home Depot.
Only thing I ever had to haul as a student was a basketful of laundry twice
a month, and the Miata has plenty of room for that. As far as passenger
space, I assume because you're a student and considering a sports car, you
don't have a family to haul around. Why would you need to drive anyone
around (other than a special friend to enjoy those top-down cruises!)?
Eric Lucas
White '91A
Somerville, NJ
Michael B. Harrnacker
> The insurance on the Miata is amazingly cheap. I've been with the same
> insurance company all of my driving life (around 10 years) and I've had
> about six cars insured with them. The Miata is the cheapest. No
> kidding! I couldn't believe it myself. Just before I bought the Miata,
> I had a 1983 Mazda RX7. When I got the Miata, I was prepared for a huge
> insurance leap but, believe it or not, the insurance went *down.* I've
> also owned a new Jeep Cherokee, and the insurance on that vehicle isn't
> quite so reasonable.
>
I just replaced my 93 Ford Tempo with a 95 Jeep Wrangler. the insurance
for both vehicles was roughly the same ($50 per month). I carried full
coverage since I had a loan on both vehicles. I haven't yet missed the
Tempo! (that may go without saying)
Toby Weir-Jones
> Straight from Edmunds. The cost of insurance on a Miata is LOW while
> the insurance cost of a Jeep Wrangler is average.
AFAIK, that's a meaningless comparison--those low/average/high ratings
are strictly in comparison to other vehicles in the same class. A
Porsche Turbo has fairly average supercar insurance, whereas the F550...
> I think a lot has to do with the air bags and accident avoidance
> capabilities of the Miata.
More likely it has to do with engine displacement and performance
capabilities. A 4.0-l TJ will out-accelerate a Miata to 60, I believe.
Not that many insurance companies (there are some exceptions) consider
dynamic capabilities in evaluating the policy risks of vehicles. The
larger concern seems to be how much damage you're likely to do to the
general population. That's part of the reason why motorcycles are cheap
to insure--it's hard to kill another motorist on a bike.
twj
Lurton Keel
Michael B. Harrnacker wrote:
> The insurance on the Miata is amazingly cheap. I've been with the
same
> insurance company all of my driving life (around 10 years) and
I've had
> about six cars insured with them. The Miata is the cheapest. No
> kidding! I couldn't believe it myself. Just before I bought the
Miata,
> I had a 1983 Mazda RX7. When I got the Miata, I was prepared for
a huge
> insurance leap but, believe it or not, the insurance went *down.*
I've
> also owned a new Jeep Cherokee, and the insurance on that vehicle
isn't
> quite so reasonable.
>
Straight from Edmunds. The cost of insurance on a Miata is LOW while
the insurance cost of a Jeep Wrangler is average.
I think a lot has to do with the air bags and accident avoidance
capabilities of the Miata.
Michael B. Harrnacker
Another thing to consider. Do you want to make you jeep or mazda unique?
there are hundred's of accessories for the jeep, everything from bumpers to
different tops, grills, etc., much of which is reasonably prices and can be
attached with your own tools at home.
there are fewer miata accessories options, they're more expensive and more
likely to require a professional.
just a thought
Michael B. Harrnacker
wow, did I mess up grammatically on this letter of mine!
Michael B. Harrnacker <harr...@selway.umt.edu> wrote in article
<01bc2430$f2f67700$0918...@harrnacker.montech.umt.edu>...
Lurton Keel
<HTML><BODY>
<B>Don't you Jeepsters have a place of your own? </B>
<BR><B></B>
<BR><B>Maybe next we will hear from the Lincoln Continental guys comparing
their cars to the Miata, and why that if you can't haul 6 passengers you
ain't squat. I notice we all ready have Hummers, 626's, RX-7's, and
Jeepsters monitoring our group but I sure don't care a thing about monitoring
theirs. They must be jealous!</B>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I></I>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
Roger Franklin
I drove a miata once for about 500' and decided that I would rather own
a bicycle. I currently own an 89 Dodge Daytona Shelby and a 77 Jeep
CJ7. As far as I was concerned, the miata would not even be a thought.
Go for the jeep.
Lurton Keel
<HTML><BODY>
Toby Weir-Jones wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><I>> Straight from Edmunds. The cost of
insurance on a Miata is LOW while</I>
<BR><I>> the insurance cost of a Jeep Wrangler is average.</I>
<BR>
<BR>AFAIK, that's a meaningless comparison--those low/average/high ratings
<BR>are strictly in comparison to other vehicles in the same class. A
<BR>Porsche Turbo has fairly average supercar insurance, whereas the F550...
<BR>
<BR><I>> I think a lot has to do with the air bags and accident avoidance</I>
<BR><I>> capabilities of the Miata.</I>
<BR>
<BR>More likely it has to do with engine displacement and performance
<BR>capabilities.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata, has no
where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance costs twice as
much?
<BR>
<BR>Oh, the Edmunds for a 1996 Porsche Carrera is <B>VERY HIGH. </B>You
must be talking about something else.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
GooberB
>Subject: Re: Jeep Wrangler or Mazda Miata?
>From: Roger Franklin <r...@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
>Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:44:06 -0500
>Message-ID: <33153B...@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
You did a 500' test dirve, huh? Hell of a test drive, makes me want to
get out my bike and sell the Miata.
Ya know, there are a big group of Miata drivers that may have been a bit
insulted by your comment, but I think we'll just head down the road with
the smiles still on our faces. BTW, if you are so "anti" Miata why are
you on the News Group?
You're not a troll are you?
Goober
Toby Weir-Jones
Lurton Keel wrote:
>
> Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata, has
> no where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance costs
> twice as much?
couldn't tell you; my personal experience is that insurance for SUVs is,
for some reason, higher than insurance for "normal" cars; the miata
appears to be considered normal (i.e. not a sports car, or even a car
with terribly sport pretensions) by the insurance companies. Maybe it
has something to do with weight? Your blazer weighs 1200 lbs more than
a miata--that's a lot more momentum if you hit something.
> Oh, the Edmunds for a 1996 Porsche Carrera is VERY HIGH. You must be
> talking about something else.
I am, actually; a report by some national organization of insurance
agencies is what sprung to mind when I made the Porsche comment. If
anybody *really* cares I'll dig it up.
twj
Jeffrey G. Hemmet
I usually try and stay out of debate likes this,
but....
If you have to ask, it's a sign you should go with
the miata.
-Jeff
Henry Payne
Jeep or Miata?
Yes the tops come off both of them, and they have an engine and four
wheels. Beyond that there is little comparison. Not that one is better
than the other...better is only in context of what do you want? They are
both narrowly aimed at specific markets, and the buyer is the ONLY person
who knows what they want and/or need. I love the Miata for its handling
and intimate driving experience. My wife loves her Miata because it is
bright blue and looks cute. She will never push the handling envelope of
the car but does that matter? It fills her needs. Similarly there are
Jeep owners that bounce over rocks and cross creeks...and there are those
that own a Jeep that never leaves pavement.
Asking someone else their opinion as to which vehicle would be better is
the same as asking someone else whether you should have chocolate or
vanilla ice cream.
Besides all this, if it doesen't have a rotor it doesn't have a motor!
Rotaries Rule! Foget them both and get an RX-7!
Eric Lucas
Toby Weir-Jones wrote:
>
> Lurton Keel wrote:
> >
> > Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata, has
> > no where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance costs
> > twice as much?
>
> couldn't tell you; my personal experience is that insurance for SUVs is,
> for some reason, higher than insurance for "normal" cars;
SUVs are not built to anywhere *near* the same safety standards as a
normal car. This explains why every single SUV that 60 Minutes tested
failed miserably in the 5 mph crash tests (some requiring several
thousand dollars of repairs for a 5 mph front-on crash.) Consumer
Reports bears out essentially the same point of view. If the federal
government applied the same standards to SUVs that they do to passenger
cars, then the insurance rates might be comparable.
> the miata
> appears to be considered normal (i.e. not a sports car, or even a car
> with terribly sport pretensions) by the insurance companies.
Great! Let's keep it that way--makes my insurance rates quite good,
compared to, for example, my former Integra
> Maybe it has something to do with weight?
Sounds reasonable. Or perhaps the average Miata driver (true of any
classic roadster) is a bit more serious about acquiring good driving
skills than the average SUV driver. The Miata is built such that it
encourages precision driving. SUVs encourage people to drive like
idiots (in snow, for example--or so I conclude from observing many,
many, many SUVs doing stupid things in snow.) In general, SUVs are
large and heavy, giving the driver a false sense of security that the
safety standards of the vehicle just simply don't justify.
Eric Lucas
Derek Ealy
On Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:37:05 -0600, Bugs <imi...@io.com> wrote:
>I thought so too. I didn't realize that so many people had that same
>quandry! I thought you bought a SUV or sports car depending on your
>lifestyle. Maybe not. Maybe both? I also thought most Jeepers were
>pretty much of the buy-American variety, even though not many cars
>(including Jeeps) are really all-American, anyway. I'm babbling. Later.
>
>Daphne Lowe wrote:
>>
>> I am the only one who thinks that comparing a Wrangler to a Miata is
>> crazy? Surely there's gotta be someone else out there who finds it
>> unbelievable that not only the original poster, but several of the
>> posters to this thread have pondered the same dilemma?
>>
>> OK, maybe its just me.....
>>
>> I give up. Anyone wanna trade a Wrangler for a Series III?
>
>--
Hey guys I own a 93B Miata, and a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee and love them
both. I am typically the european sports car type of car guy but when
it comes to SUV's it is very hard to beat us Americans on bang for the
buck. Now that I have a family and enjoy camping and the outdoors an
SUV makes perfect sense.
Derek
*** PLEASE NOTE THE RETURN ADDRESS ***
Don't just hit reply to send me mail. I've deliberately changed
my return address to --de...@mindspring.com in order to hopefully
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Reply to de...@mindspring.com
Lee Moore
In article <331653...@ix.netcom.com>, Eric Lucas
<eal...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Great! Let's keep it that way--makes my insurance rates quite good,
> compared to, for example, my former Integra
>
> > Maybe it has something to do with weight?
>
> Sounds reasonable. Or perhaps the average Miata driver (true of any
> classic roadster) is a bit more serious about acquiring good driving
> skills than the average SUV driver.
Aren't insurance rates in part based on horsepower, rather than weight?
--
"I'm saying nothing and I'm saying it." - John Cage
Eric Williams Witherspoon
Eric Lucas <eal...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Toby Weir-Jones wrote:
>> Lurton Keel wrote:
>> > Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata,
>> > has no where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance
>> > costs twice as much?
When I had an S-10 Blazer and the Miata at the same time, the S-10
was about the same - without comprehensive/collision (as in, I wreck
it or it gets stolen, it's my problem). The bank requires that
coverage on the Miata (they still own it). So you can have comparable
rates, with the S-10 skimping on a few entire categories of
insurance...
>> couldn't tell you; my personal experience is that insurance for SUVs
>> is, for some reason, higher than insurance for "normal" cars;
>
>SUVs are not built to anywhere *near* the same safety standards as a
>normal car. This explains why every single SUV that 60 Minutes tested
>failed miserably in the 5 mph crash tests (some requiring several
>thousand dollars of repairs for a 5 mph front-on crash.) Consumer
>Reports bears out essentially the same point of view. If the federal
>government applied the same standards to SUVs that they do to
>passenger cars, then the insurance rates might be comparable.
This definitely explains the problem. I know from experience that SUV
bumpers are purely cosmetic and will fold with the slightest impact.
(They can, however, be used to push things...YMMV)
>> the miata appears to be considered normal (i.e. not a sports car,
>> or even a car with terribly sport pretensions) by the insurance
>> companies.
This is why the CRX failed: Honda either failed to consult with
insurance companies or failed to incorporate their
experiences/opinions/requirements regarding
a small, quick car. Thus the CRX was over some "edge" according
to insurance companies, and required a high rate. Mazda, OTOH,
worked with insurance companies to determine what would keep the
Miata an "economy car". This probably wasn't quite as simple as
hp/weight ratio or "built to the standards of the day" - but the
original, 1990 Miata was built to U.S. 1997 side impact standards
and there was no question about airbags - they all had them.
Ok, so the '94 added that cross brace behind the seats for side
impact protection - not for handling-related chassis stiffening...
Plus, the relatively slow 0-60 time, and lower hp than they easily
could have incorporated probably helped. Part of why they waited
on the larger engine was to build a record with ins. co's, as much
as needing to make periodic changes.
So, not only does the huge gap between "truck" and car safety
standards work in the Miata's favor, but Mazda's planning also
pays off (for Mazda as well as for us).
=Eric
White/blue stripes '93 "Mina"
Der Flightermouse
I just saw a report a few days ago in which the 97 TJ recieved 4 out
of 5 stars for a side collision in safety ratings and 5 out of 5 for the
passenger side safety. And your telling me that SUV's aren't built to the
same safety standards as a passenger car? I don't really think that a 5
mph crash will do much to the front bumper of my TJ either. Maybe take
off those stupid plastic bumber extensions, but other than that I don't
see a problem. I know several guys in Jeeps that have been hit or hit
other cars at speeds higher than that and the Jeep may have only bent a
bumper or scratched a fender while the car was just a mess. Heh, put a
Miata and a TJ head to head at 5 mph. let 'em duke it out and see who
wins at 20 paces. ;^)
JK.
On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Eric Lucas wrote:
> Toby Weir-Jones wrote:
> >
> > Lurton Keel wrote:
> > >
> > > Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata, has
> > > no where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance costs
> > > twice as much?
> >
> > couldn't tell you; my personal experience is that insurance for SUVs is,
> > for some reason, higher than insurance for "normal" cars;
>
> SUVs are not built to anywhere *near* the same safety standards as a
> normal car. This explains why every single SUV that 60 Minutes tested
> failed miserably in the 5 mph crash tests (some requiring several
> thousand dollars of repairs for a 5 mph front-on crash.) Consumer
> Reports bears out essentially the same point of view. If the federal
> government applied the same standards to SUVs that they do to passenger
> cars, then the insurance rates might be comparable.
>
> > the miata
> > appears to be considered normal (i.e. not a sports car, or even a car
> > with terribly sport pretensions) by the insurance companies.
>
> Great! Let's keep it that way--makes my insurance rates quite good,
> compared to, for example, my former Integra
>
> > Maybe it has something to do with weight?
>
> Sounds reasonable. Or perhaps the average Miata driver (true of any
> classic roadster) is a bit more serious about acquiring good driving
> skills than the average SUV driver. The Miata is built such that it
> encourages precision driving. SUVs encourage people to drive like
> idiots (in snow, for example--or so I conclude from observing many,
> many, many SUVs doing stupid things in snow.) In general, SUVs are
> large and heavy, giving the driver a false sense of security that the
> safety standards of the vehicle just simply don't justify.
>
> Eric Lucas
>
>
Adam
97 TJ 68 Firebird 79 Formula w/ T-tops
2.5 L 350 Pontiac H.O. Under construction
5spd 4 spd Muncie
For Sale
******************************
*asp...@dept.agry.purdue.edu*
*cue...@expert.cc.purdue.edu*
******************************
Todd Townsend
Those are the results of the NHTSA crash tests. The Wrangler did well
for 2 reasons.
1. Dual airbags and full shoulder seat belts. That protects your head
and upper body.
2. The combination of body-on-frame and long dash to axle ratio. Look at
how far you sit back from the front of a Wrangler. That gives a lot of
steel in front of you to absorb an impact. If you check out the NHTSA
page, you will see that a lot of injuries, even in cars with airbags,
are to the legs. The crash test dummies measure "femur load" in the
legs. Look at most new cars. The bubble shape puts the driver closer to
the front of the vehicle. The result is that the small portion of the
car in front of you ends up compacting into the passenger compartment.
And crushing your legs.
Another group that represents auto insurance conducts "offset" crash
tests, unlike the NHTSA, which is head-on. You may have seen their
reports on Dateline and major news programs. Their tests, unfortunately,
show that VERY FEW cars get a "very good" rating - meaning that you
will not end up with broken legs.
Very good rated passenger cars are: 1. Toyota Camry, 2. Volvo 850, 3.
Chevrolet Lumina. That's it! None of the others tested gets that rating.
and the ONLY minivan to get the top rating is the Ford Windstar. They
have not tested SUV's yet.
Todd Townsend town...@i-2000.com
Lurton Keel
Daniel Y. Chang wrote:
In short, which one is more fun?
Check out Edmund's web page at http://www.edmunds.com
There is a section under new cars called "The Most Fun-to-Drive
Performance Automobiles"
Listed are quite a few vehicles but the only 2 Jeeps are the Cherokee
and the Grand Cherokee. It seems to qualify the vehicle had to do 0-60
in less than 8.75 seconds, 60-0 in less than 140 feet, and corner better
than .775 g's. There are a few convertibles in the list and if you
check out the insurance and maintenance cost, you will find the Miata is
one of the "Best buys" for fun. Most of the vehicles that out-perform
the Miata are in the HIGH to VERY HIGH insurance costs.
lk
Wilde_1
Lurton Keel wrote:
>
> Michael B. Harrnacker wrote:
>
> > The insurance on the Miata is amazingly cheap. I've been with the
> same
> > insurance company all of my driving life (around 10 years) and
> I've had
> > about six cars insured with them. The Miata is the cheapest. No
> > kidding! I couldn't believe it myself. Just before I bought the
> Miata,
> > I had a 1983 Mazda RX7. When I got the Miata, I was prepared for
> a huge
> > insurance leap but, believe it or not, the insurance went *down.*
> I've
> > also owned a new Jeep Cherokee, and the insurance on that vehicle
> isn't
> > quite so reasonable.
> >
>
> the insurance cost of a Jeep Wrangler is average.
>
Hey, I love my Miata and have a severe case of Miata-tude but lets get
serious here; the most likely reason for lower insurance rates is the
lower cost to repair sunce in a real accident with one of today's bloated
vehicles (suv's, minivans, semis, ...) the cost to repair is zero. you
just bury the whole unit - miata & driver ;>. Any nonsense about
'accident avoidance capabilities' is bunk, no offense to you and i'll
assume you have the skill to utilize those capabilities, but most folks
driving a miata around anymore probably don't. The population has
changed over the last few years as Mazda atarted pushing all those cheap
short-term leases. It no longer is just dyed in the wool sports car
enthusiasts driving miatas anymore, there is a huge percentage of folks
who bought one "'cause its just so cute". Most of 'em would have bought
a del sol if honda had priced em right.
Wilde_1 - 93 "B" Red
Jerry Bransford
Todd Townsend wrote:
>
> Those are the results of the NHTSA crash tests. The Wrangler did well
> for 2 reasons.
>
> 1. Dual airbags and full shoulder seat belts. That protects your head
> and upper body.
>
> 2. The combination of body-on-frame and long dash to axle ratio. Look at
> how far you sit back from the front of a Wrangler. That gives a lot of
> steel in front of you to absorb an impact.
That's good news. What helps is that the Wrangler, at over 3,000 lbs,
is no lightweight vehicle! Mass does help in that old equation!
--
NOTE: To reply, remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address.
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL, C.A.P., KC6TAY
The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
Trevor Ryder
>Don't you Jeepsters have a place of your own?
Its called cross-posting to multiple newsgroups fool.
GooberB
Eric Lucas <eal...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Toby Weir-Jones wrote:
>> Lurton Keel wrote:
>> > Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata,
>> > has no where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance
>> > costs twice as much?
It's very simple, many many more Blazers are stolen by the bad guys.
Goober
pok...@ix.netcom.com
Even if that were true, which I'm not sure that it is, collision rates
(most important and most expensive) wouldn't be effected. This fact
would only effect comprehensive coverage.
Just a thought....
Cherie
Eric Lucas
GooberB wrote:
>
> Eric Lucas <eal...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> >Toby Weir-Jones wrote:
> >> Lurton Keel wrote:
> >> > Then how come my S-10 Blazer, which costs the same as the Miata,
> >> > has no where near the performance of the Miata but the insurance
> >> > costs twice as much?
>
> It's very simple, many many more Blazers are stolen by the bad guys.
That's got nothing to do with collision insurance rates. The fact is
that the Federal government has almost no standards regarding the
construction of SUVs, as it does for passenger cars. So, for example,
there are *absolutely* no standards regarding the construction of the
bumpers. A coupla slabs of plastic would satisfy the government. As a
result, 5 mph collisions in many of the SUVs will cause multiple
$thousand of damage. As an example, one of the news programs showed one
of the SUVs (can't remember which one--it was a year or so ago) backing
into a concrete post (like those you find in a parking lot) at 5 mph--a
very realistic thing to happen in a parking lot. The whole rear end of
the vehicle buckled, and the rear window exploded out of the vehicle.
Repair costs was something like $3000.
There are of course some makers that have decided to construct their
vehicles to better standards than this. And things may have gotten
better in the intervening time since that report. However, on average,
SUVs are simply not constructed to the same safety standards as
passenger cars. Thus, the average accident in an SUV costs much more to
repair, and thus you have to pay more for insurance.
By the way, please learn how to get your attributions right. I didn't
write any of what you quoted there. As a general rule, keep in mind
that some people would get very angry having their name associated with
words they didn't say.
Eric Lucas
Lurton Keel
Its called cross-posting to multiple newsgroups fool.
Thanks, asshole.
The Allen Family
I drive a Miata and a Isuzu Trooper. I've been considering giving up the
Trooper for a CJ-7. But I wouldn't give up the Miata. I live in Maine, and
there are days for the Trooper, and days for the Miata. <grin>
The only grip with the Miata is that I can't carrya seakayak easily, and
there are summer days when NOT taking the Miata is hard. I was thinking the
CJ would give me a combination light , fun, carry the seakayak, inyour face
vehicle.
Russ Smith
Did a custom install on stereo in new wrangler soft top....
In order to test out took for a ride to get out of my development and
let the neighbors sleep. While "testing" on a back road it started to
drizzle....a 20 minute 2 person job to completely reinstall softtop and
doors.....not not not fun....very difficult but jeep was only 2 weeks
old and I'm assuming pretty tight still....ride quality sucks!!!!really
think twice about any kind of traveling in a wrangler but I hear they
drastically changed suspension for 97 or so.....
--
"If I could fly ten years before I die in a crash, it would be a
worthwhile trade for an ordinary lifetime." Charles Lindbergh,
1902-1974
Todd Murray
The Allen Family wrote:
>
> I drive a Miata and a Isuzu Trooper. I've been considering giving up the
> Trooper for a CJ-7. But I wouldn't give up the Miata. I live in Maine, and
> there are days for the Trooper, and days for the Miata. <grin>
> The only grip with the Miata is that I can't carrya seakayak easily, and
> there are summer days when NOT taking the Miata is hard. I was thinking the
> CJ would give me a combination light , fun, carry the seakayak, inyour face
> vehicle.
Actually, that reminds me of an article I saw about Mazda's "B-Extreme"
concept pickup truck. They had a feature about that in Four Wheeler
last summer (or it might have been Petersen's). It's basically a Mazda
B-series pickup truck with a rack for an offshore kayak, racks for
mountain bikes, some other accessories for "extreme" sports, and a
really obnoxious paint scheme. I think they used the words "in your
face" to describe that concept truck as well. It didn't have a
convertible top, though.
--
Todd Murray - t...@visi.com http://www.visi.com/~tam/
Slightly deranged mountain biker, snow skater, and proud owner
of a 1997 Jeep Wrangler (TJ).
David J. Bennett PhD
> Daniel Y. Chang wrote:
>
> In short, which one is more fun?
>
I had a 1988 Jeep Wrangler for 5 years, and have now had a 91 Miata for
3.5 years. For pure driving enjoyment they are very close, my vote though
goes to the Miata because it is not only fun but reliable. Jeeps
(especially the Wranglers) are notorious for being unreliable, and that
was my experience also. And, unless you get the 6 cylinder, they're dogs.
But then again, with my Miata, I'm stuck on the pavement. :-(
Looking at RAV 4s,
Dave
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| David J. Bennett, Ph.D. dbe...@luna.cas.usf.edu |
| Department of Psychology [One 't':email; two 't's: name.] |
| University of South Florida |
| Tampa, FL 33620-8200 "Back off man! I'm a scientist!" |
| 813/974-7443 -Bill Murray (Ghostbusters) |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Carr
GooberB wrote:
}
} It's very simple, many many more Blazers are stolen by the bad guys.
pok...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
>Even if that were true, which I'm not sure that it is, collision rates
>(most important and most expensive) wouldn't be effected. This fact
>would only effect comprehensive coverage.
Most people do not look at the breakdown in cost, just the total,
and the bank requires you to have both. However, your agent will
happily tell you theft numbers and rate breakdown by type, and
perhaps even what the local hot cars are.
--
James A. Carr <j...@scri.fsu.edu> | "Whatever."
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ |
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | George Herbert Walker Bush
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 |
pok...@ix.netcom.com
I guess my point was that not everyone carries comprehensive insurance,
and I don't know of any area in which comprehensive is required by law.
Cherie