Wagoneer Fuel Mileage
randal...@gmail.com
Wagoneer over a 700-mile road trip, only to discover that it is
getting 8.7 mpg!
Now I wasn't expecting much over about 12-14 mpg, (the factory
propaganda from the period touts 16 mpg--I've never gotten that much
on any of my GWs) but well under 10, I'm suspicious that there might
be something I could do to adjust. The engine is the stock AMC-360
with a newly-rebuilt carb.(Ford?) It still has the factory-installed
catalytic converter, etc., etc., which undoubtedly is part of the
problem.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.
DougW
First thought is you are running overly rich.
If you were fuel injection I'd point at a saggy O2 sensor being
the culprit, but since you are running a carb I'm not exactly sure.
My old C-10 chevy got 9-10 MPG no matter what.
A dying battery will cause your alternator to run all the time
and that can suck down your economy real quick.
--
DougW
randal...@gmail.com
wrote:
Doug--
Your point about the battery was one I hadn't thought of at all. I'll
change the battery, as I am not sure of the age of it anyway, and then
see. It bogs down after about 20-seconds or less of cranking when
engine cold.
I also thought of the highly unlikely possibility of being stuck in
4WD, but there is certainly no indication of that, e.g., Quadra-Track
switch is in 2WD; panel light is out, etc.
I am having a problem with one or two electrical accessories that may
also lend credence to the battery theory, now that you have mentioned
it.
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
Does your wife call you Leadfoot?
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:BillH...@billhughes.com
http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
"randal...@mac.com" <randal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7c3eb345-8d76-4dab...@27g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
DougW
> Your point about the battery was one I hadn't thought of at all. I'll
> change the battery, as I am not sure of the age of it anyway, and then
> see. It bogs down after about 20-seconds or less of cranking when
> engine cold.
I drove my old chevy up to school one day and it burned a whole tank
and a half of fuel. Throught I had a leak. Turned out the battery
had two dead cells in it. Damn gas cost me nearly as much as the
new battery. :( (chevy C-10, dual tanks)
--
DougW
dave AKA vwdoc1
So many components could be causing your problem OTTOMH:
ENGINE...........
Heat Riser in the right exhaust manifold clogged.
EGR problem
Carb problems such as a power valve or choke issue.
Could even be that the fuel filter is upside down. lol
Clogged Air Filter or warm air diverter valve (pulling hot air in instead of
cold air)
Clogged catalytic converter or exhaust
Air Injection system (smog pump)
Vacuum issues (THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH THIS ENGINE)
Distributor problems
Winter Fuel!
SUSPENSION/BRAKES
Dragging brakes
Alignment off
Wheel bearing problems
Tires underinflated
8.7 MPG SUCKS!!!
I have only been able to pull a little over 15 mpg out of my 1979 Wag with a
304 engine on the highway but it was loaded with people and car parts. ;-)
"randal...@mac.com" <randal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f804f1b-ca47-4a5b...@n38g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
randal...@gmail.com
<BillHug...@billhughes.com> wrote:
> Hi Randall,
> Does your wife call you Leadfoot?
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
>
> "randallbr...@mac.com" <randallbr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7c3eb345-8d76-4dab...@27g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > What causes extreme high fuel consumption? I checked my 1987 Grand
> > Wagoneer over a 700-mile road trip, only to discover that it is
> > getting 8.7 mpg!
>
> > Now I wasn't expecting much over about 12-14 mpg, (the factory
> > propaganda from the period touts 16 mpg--I've never gotten that much
> > on any of my GWs) but well under 10, I'm suspicious that there might
> > be something I could do to adjust. The engine is the stock AMC-360
> > with a newly-rebuilt carb.(Ford?) It still has the factory-installed
> > catalytic converter, etc., etc., which undoubtedly is part of the
> > problem.
>
> > Any suggestions will be appreciated.
I'm glad you mentioned that, as I should have said, that in my highway
driving, I drive very conservatively, slow acceleration, never over 70
mph. Actually, I usually drive about 62-65 on the Interstate.
Whatever is causing the excessive fuel consumption, it isn't
aggressive driving.
randal...@gmail.com
wrote:
> The experts are herehttp://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List/
>
> So many components could be causing your problem OTTOMH:
> ENGINE...........
> Heat Riser in the right exhaust manifold clogged.
> EGR problem
> Carb problems such as a power valve or choke issue.
> Could even be that the fuel filter is upside down. lol
> Clogged Air Filter or warm air diverter valve (pulling hot air in instead of
> cold air)
> Clogged catalytic converter or exhaust
> Air Injection system (smog pump)
> Vacuum issues (THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH THIS ENGINE)
> Distributor problems
> Winter Fuel!
>
> SUSPENSION/BRAKES
> Dragging brakes
> Alignment off
> Wheel bearing problems
> Tires underinflated
>
> 8.7 MPG SUCKS!!!
> I have only been able to pull a little over 15 mpg out of my 1979 Wag with a
> 304 engine on the highway but it was loaded with people and car parts. ;-)
>
Thanks for this list, any of which certainly coul be a problem with an
older GW.
I'll use the list as a checklist and start through them--I can
eliminate a few, such as Air Filter, Fuel Filter, etc., but not all.
Undoubtedly one of these is what is causing the horrendous
consumption. Other possibility is Batter, as Doug mentioned earlier,
and I will verify that one tomorrow with a new Die Hard.
DougW
> I'll use the list as a checklist and start through them--I can
> eliminate a few, such as Air Filter, Fuel Filter, etc., but not all.
> Undoubtedly one of these is what is causing the horrendous
> consumption. Other possibility is Batter, as Doug mentioned earlier,
> and I will verify that one tomorrow with a new Die Hard.
Take the old battery to PepBoys or AutoZone, they will test it for free.
--
DougW
Will Honea
Check the ignition timing and the advance function while you're looking at
the distributor- late timing will suck the tank dry in a hurry.
--
Will Honea
randal...@gmail.com
wrote:
I don't think a leak would cause fuel to vanish quicker in this
Wagoneer. I checked my mileage gain Christmas morning, only to find
that has dropped to 7.7 mpg! I've seen aircraft crashes that didn't
burn fuel that fast.
I'm working through the list that Dave provided hear, having been able
to eliminate all the suspension issues and tires. The wheels bearings
I recently repacked, and the Jeep has new tires. I'm focused on the
carburetor, which was rebuilt but probably not well tuned when
installed, and things like the EGR valve, etc.I will replace the EGR
valve and see what happens. I will check today to see if the
maniforld heat riser is in place and working. The engine has plenty
of power at cruise, so some of the issues can be checked against that,
but this fuel mileage has got to improve, because where I go in the
Spring and Summer is so far from any fuel service that I would have to
fill the whole back end of the Wagoneer with Jerry cans just to make
the trip.
I wanted to mention that there is some leakage just forward of the
Catalytic Converter, such as a bracket or hole, which I notice upon
start-up in the morning (I can see the exhaust coming out) and I can
smell it when stopped at a light. Would it be worth replacing the
Catalytic converter when repairing the leak?
Thanks in advance for all help!
randal...@gmail.com
>
> So many components could be causing your problem OTTOMH:
> ENGINE...........
> Heat Riser in the right exhaust manifold clogged.
> EGR problem
> Carb problems such as a power valve or choke issue.
> Could even be that the fuel filter is upside down. lol
> Clogged Air Filter or warm air diverter valve (pulling hot air in instead of
> cold air)
> Clogged catalytic converter or exhaust
> Air Injection system (smog pump)
> Vacuum issues (THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH THIS ENGINE)
> Distributor problems
> Winter Fuel!
>
> SUSPENSION/BRAKES
> Dragging brakes
> Alignment off
> Wheel bearing problems
> Tires underinflated
>
> 8.7 MPG SUCKS!!!
> I have only been able to pull a little over 15 mpg out of my 1979 Wag with a
> 304 engine on the highway but it was loaded with people and car parts. ;-)
>
Dave:
I can eliminate the carb problem only as far as the power valve, which
I just replaced.
Air filter is brand new.
Have not yet checked the fuel filter, but will replace that, just to
be sure. I've had problems with fuel filters in the past and am
religious about frequent replacement.
There is a potential issue with the Catalytic Converter, as there is
an exhaust leak just forward of the Converter, that looks like a
bracket or possibly a hole in the pipe just where the forward-most
bracket is on the Catalytic Converter, but have not been able to get
under to check that yet.
Air Injection System, I know nothing about...
I will check as best I can on vacuum issues, but am limited in my
ability to troubleshoot these.
I am planning to replace all Distributor components downstream of the
distributor itself; e.g., new wires, cap, coil, and spark plugs. These
are things I can do without getting into too much trouble, and that
might (I hope) improve performance. There was an excellent post hereon
a few days ago in answer to one of my inquiries, on what new
components to use to replace the stock ones, and I am working in
accordance with that information.
Winter fuel is undoubtedly part of the problem, as I live in the
Northwest, where gasohol is universally used and practically
unavoidable. Jeeps don't like gasohol.
Suspension and Brakes issues are unlikely, as I have been thoroughly
through those, new, suspension components, alignment, new tires, etc.
I wanted to thank you again for your thorough information and help,
and by posting this response to your list of possibilities, solicit
your further remarks.
Randall
Earle Horton
have one of those full time four wheel drive things, or Quadratrac?
Earle
"randal...@mac.com" <randal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:790f2f1a-cfe2-499e...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Mike
On Dec 23, 3:02 pm, "DougW" <I.only.read.use...@invalid.address>
wrote:
> randallbrink wrote:
> > Your point about the battery was one I hadn't thought of at all. I'll
> > change the battery, as I am not sure of the age of it anyway, and then
> > see. It bogs down after about 20-seconds or less of cranking when
> > engine cold.
>
> I drove my old chevy up to school one day and it burned a whole tank
> and a half of fuel. Throught I had a leak. Turned out the battery
> had two dead cells in it. Damn gas cost me nearly as much as the
> new battery. :( (chevy C-10, dual tanks)
>
> --
> DougW
I don't think a leak would cause fuel to vanish quicker in this
Wagoneer. I checked my mileage gain Christmas morning, only to find
that has dropped to 7.7 mpg! I've seen aircraft crashes that didn't
burn fuel that fast.
You can check what your mileage should be here:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/findacar.htm
They list it as 10 city, 12 hwy, so you are not that far off. Given that it
is winter and you are using oxygenated fuel your mileage sounds about right.
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
Pour a little sugar in your tank and see which of your neighbor's
cars stop working.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
"randal...@mac.com" <randal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2c0ee55-3c8c-4a7d...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
I don't think a leak would cause fuel to vanish quicker in this
randal...@gmail.com
> What is the best gas mileage you have ever seen in this vehicle? Does it
> have one of those full time four wheel drive things, or Quadratrac?
>
> Earle
>
Earl:
As I have only had this particular GW a short time, this is the best
I've seen. I was able to get 8.71 on the Interstate, but am only
getting 7.7 in a mix of secondary highway and in-town driving.
My previous GWs, both 1984 models, seemed to get around 15.
Earle Horton
Earl:
--- --- --- ---
So you are getting normal mileage for this vehicle. Ow! I am thinking the
vehicle is in a poor state of tune, or compression is low requiring an
engine rebuild, or you have QuadraTrac and your previous GWs had the much
more economical SelectTrac. You no doubt have an electronic distributor,
but a new rotor, cap and plug wires wouldn't hurt it. What do the emissions
inspection people say? If it is burning much more fuel than it is supposed
to, it should show up as excess hydrocarbons at least.
I hope this doesn't offend, but why do you insist on having such a gas
guzzler in these times of high fuel cost? It sounds as if you like the GW
line, but there are many vehicles with similar capability but much less fuel
consumption. My wife's RAV4 gets 25 mpg, for example, and it has the fancy
full time 4WD (I don't even know how it works) and the auto trans. Shit it
came stock with everything, including hands free blue tooth cell phone
interface. It was the only one on the lot after she went elk hunting with
her CRV. Btw if you ever burn out the brake light fuse you won't be able to
shift it out of neutral, that's how advanced it is.
Earle
randal...@gmail.com
Earle:
Yes, I do have the Quadra-Track, and my previous Wagoneers had Select-
Trac. Perhaps that could account for some of the fuel mileage
difference.
I drive Jeep Wagoneers because I like them; there is nothing made
today that is their peer, and if I have to suffer 8 mpg fuel mileage,
then so be it. I will be making what adjustments I can to increase
fuel mileage, however.
I do as much mechanical work as I can on my Jeeps, and try to avoid
taking them to the shop, which is why I have posted all this
information and all these questions on this Jeep forum.
I am not in the least bit interested in any contemporary sissified
"crossovers" or so-called "SUVs" or the like. The places I go and the
demands I make on a 4x4 would ruin one of those in one outing. They
are built to stay fully uproght and on the pavement, preferably dry
pavement.
And no, there are no vehicles with "similar capability" available in
the market that I am aware of, with the possible exception of a
$65,000 Dodge Cummins Ram, with a large mortgage payment and an
insurance bill to match.
Old Crow
Earle:
Yes, I do have the Quadra-Track, and my previous Wagoneers had Select-
Trac. Perhaps that could account for some of the fuel mileage
difference.
I drive Jeep Wagoneers because I like them; there is nothing made
today that is their peer, and if I have to suffer 8 mpg fuel mileage,
then so be it. I will be making what adjustments I can to increase
fuel mileage, however.
I do as much mechanical work as I can on my Jeeps, and try to avoid
taking them to the shop, which is why I have posted all this
information and all these questions on this Jeep forum.
I am not in the least bit interested in any contemporary sissified
"crossovers" or so-called "SUVs" or the like. The places I go and the
demands I make on a 4x4 would ruin one of those in one outing. They
are built to stay fully uproght and on the pavement, preferably dry
pavement.
And no, there are no vehicles with "similar capability" available in
the market that I am aware of, with the possible exception of a
$65,000 Dodge Cummins Ram, with a large mortgage payment and an
insurance bill to match.
Damn, Randall, I like the way you talk.
--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC(P) 'Mistress Pearl'
'87 FLTC 'Fugly'
'61 F-100
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM
dave AKA vwdoc1
FSJs and I did not notice that much difference in the mpg.
Your current Jeep has a slight tuning problem that you should be able to
locate to bring that mileage back up! ;-)
Start with the basic.....
Remember that engines are air pumps.......air in and air out!
Check the compression of the cylinders.
Do a Leak-Down test if you see some problems.
Basic Timing and timing advance are crucial to achieving better power and
better mpg.
Checking the function of the Carburetor is also crucial.
Using a vacuum gauge while setting up timing and carb can help!
Also Exhaust needs to be clear to let that air out! ;-)
Make sure that the Jeep rolls freely down the road will help too. ;-)
STill you need to join the FSJ group on Yahoo since that is where the gurus
reside.
Happy New Year!
--
later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
"Old Crow" <walli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hhku78$qke$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
randal...@gmail.com
wrote:
> I have had V8s with both Quadra-Trac ('74 & '79) and Select-Trac ('82 & '88)
> FSJs and I did not notice that much difference in the mpg.
> Your current Jeep has a slight tuning problem that you should be able to
> locate to bring that mileage back up! ;-)
>
> Start with the basic.....
> Remember that engines are air pumps.......air in and air out!
> Check the compression of the cylinders.
> Do a Leak-Down test if you see some problems.
> Basic Timing and timing advance are crucial to achieving better power and
> better mpg.
> Checking the function of the Carburetor is also crucial.
> Using a vacuum gauge while setting up timing and carb can help!
>
> Also Exhaust needs to be clear to let that air out! ;-)
>
> Make sure that the Jeep rolls freely down the road will help too. ;-)
> STill you need to join the FSJ group on Yahoo since that is where the gurus
> reside.
>
> Happy New Year!
> --
> later,
> dave AKA vwdoc1
>
>
> news:hhku78$qke$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > "randallbr...@mac.com" <randallbr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I'll do that--e.g., join the Yahoo FSJ Group.
I am methodically going through and addressing the usual suspects,
ignition, fuel, exhaust, etc. I have no alignment or running gear
problems, thankfully. I have a new carb, but one that was not tuned
precisely, so working on that. There is an exhaust leak at the front
bracket of the muffler, which may contribute. I'm going to replace
the bracket and muffler today. I've done the compression check and
that was satisfactory; the Jeep has plenty of power and compression.
Beyond that, I will be happy with whatever I am able to get, hopefully
10-15 mpg. I'm going to occasionally pull a 19' Airstream travel
trailer, which will probably cut into the mileage some <g>.
Earle Horton
--- --- --- ---
You need to look at the axle ratio too. I remember in the seventies when
manufacturers went wild with too-low axle ratios, and it had the opposite
effect of what they were trying to accomplish. That engine (every engine,
as a matter of fact) is designed to operate within a fairly narrow rpm range
for maximum efficiency. I think if you retrofit a Selec-Trac transfer case
and the same gears as your previous Wagoneer, you will get the same fuel
economy that you are used to. Otherwise, you won't.
Earle