98 TJ will not start
Arold "Al" Green
morning and it will not start. Suspect a fuel problem because it will
fire a couple bursts when I spray some starter fluid into the air
intake.
I hope it is not the fuel pump, but not sure how to check this. I
understand there is a fuse and a relay that could cause this problem.
Don't know their location
Any help appreciated - Thanks,
Al
__
Arold "Al" Green
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
Starting fluid runs without spark plugs.
You may have a fuel by-pass problem. Do you hear the fuel pump run for
two seconds each time you turn you ignition to ON? No, you need a pump. If
so switch your off and on ten times to make sure you have enough fuel
pressure to start, and attempt to start.
Or you may have a CPS problem, with about 99.9% of the no starts:
http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=257990
http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/Billy_Ray_2006/Crankshaft%20Position%20Sensor/
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:BillH...@billhughes.com
http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
"Arold "Al" Green" <aro...@spamlessmchsi.com> wrote in message
news:vltqh555tlv4pog2q...@4ax.com...
DougW
You will hear the pump buzz as soon as you turn the key to run.
If it does that you are getting fuel pressure. The other test
is to hook a pressure gauge to the fuel rail. An old R-12 dial
gauge works fine.
I don't have a TJ book. In the ZJ there is a relay center
behind the battery and that's where the fuse/relay is for the
fuel pump. Under the lid is the fuse/relay location info.
You shouldn't be getting a vac lock, but just in case, remove the
gas cap then try to start.
If you offroaded heavily, check the fuel tank and lines for
any pinching or rock rash. If you don't have a skid plate
on the fuel tank it's real easy to have a rock smoosh the pump. :/
--
DougW
Old Crow
news:WXiTm.41182$ZF3....@newsfe13.iad...
Doug, just because the pump runs doesn't mean it builds pressure. Theres a
fitting on the fuel rail to hook a gauge to so you can check it. I believe
a gauge is available for loan or rent at Auto Zone or some similar store.
Could be as simple as a plugged fuel filter.
--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC(P) 'Mistress Pearl'
'87 FLTC 'Fugly'
'61 F-100
BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM
DougW
> "DougW" wrote ...
>> Arold "Al" Green wrote:
>>> I parked my TJ after a problem free run. Tried to start it the next
>>> morning and it will not start. Suspect a fuel problem because it
>>> will fire a couple bursts when I spray some starter fluid into the
>>> air intake.
>>> I hope it is not the fuel pump, but not sure how to check this. I
>>> understand there is a fuse and a relay that could cause this
>>> problem. Don't know their location
>>> Any help appreciated - Thanks,
>>> Al
>>
>> You will hear the pump buzz as soon as you turn the key to run.
>> If it does that you are getting fuel pressure. The other test
>> is to hook a pressure gauge to the fuel rail. An old R-12 dial
>> gauge works fine.
>>
>> I don't have a TJ book. In the ZJ there is a relay center
>> behind the battery and that's where the fuse/relay is for the
>> fuel pump. Under the lid is the fuse/relay location info.
>>
>> You shouldn't be getting a vac lock, but just in case, remove the
>> gas cap then try to start.
>>
>> If you offroaded heavily, check the fuel tank and lines for
>> any pinching or rock rash. If you don't have a skid plate
>> on the fuel tank it's real easy to have a rock smoosh the pump. :/
> Doug, just because the pump runs doesn't mean it builds pressure. Theres a fitting on the fuel rail to hook a gauge to so you can
> check
> it. I believe a gauge is available for loan or rent at Auto Zone or
> some similar store. Could be as simple as a plugged fuel filter.
Good point, ususally the pump either runs or it doesn't. The most
plugged fuel filter I've ran across still allowed the jeep to start
but it couldn't accelerate worth spit. Took the filter off, turned
it over and drained brown sludge. I've seen crapoline before but
this looked like someone tried to fill up with drilling mud.
Nostart can be a bugger to diagnose but if it runs off of ether
then it is getting spark.
Oh.. Al, pull the codes just to be sure.
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/jeep/TJ_diagnostic_codes.htm
--
DougW
PeterD
Did you put a scan tool on it and see if there are any DTC codes? That
should be your first step. Also watch live data, make sure the fuel
pump is being commanded to run.
Mindy
problem, it did mine
"Arold "Al" Green" <aro...@spamlessmchsi.com> wrote in message
news:vltqh555tlv4pog2q...@4ax.com...
Arold "Al" Green
Looking on the internet I find prices all over the place - from <$100
to almost $300.
Is it worth the extra money to get the expensive OEM part?
Thanks, Al
__
Arold "Al" Green
DougW
> Thanks for all the responses. Turns out that it is the fuel pump.
> Looking on the internet I find prices all over the place - from <$100
> to almost $300.
> Is it worth the extra money to get the expensive OEM part?
Bummer.
I usually use NAPA, but try these folks first.
http://www.chryslerpartsdirect.com/
Done quite a lot with them and they are very decent on prices.
--
DougW
Mike Romain
to see.
Mike
2000 Cherokee Sport
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG AT's, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame and everything else in '09. Some Canadian Bush Trip and
Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
Arold "Al" Green
gas tank. This does not seem right - expected 12 volts, so I am still
wondering.
Al
Mike Romain <rom...@nospam.live.com> wrote:
__
Arold "Al" Green
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
I think you have the gas gauge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O||||||
http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm
"Arold "Al" Green" <aro...@spamlessmchsi.com> wrote in message
news:0l33i5tpub4cc3psp...@4ax.com...
DougW
> Yes, there is a relay and it is working. I am getting 5 volts at the
> gas tank. This does not seem right - expected 12 volts, so I am still
> wondering.
Having the service manual would help. I don't have
one for your model. Might see if a local dealer will
print off the diagrams for the fuel system.
Is that 5V with the pump disconnected or connected?
It should be 12V. I'd check back at the relay to see
if it's getting 12V. If you can get to the plug, unplug
the pump and measure the voltage there. If it's still
5V then swap relays. If it remains 5V and the relay center
is getting 12V then you have a pinched wire somewhere.
Carefully check the wire and follow it from the pump
up to the engine bay. You might have caught it on
something. I had a branch do that to my chevy. Not the
pump, but it ripped the wires that ran to the dual tank
solinoid and dang near stranded me.
You can bypass the relay and force the pump to run.
But make sure you're jumping the correct relay pins. :)
--
DougW
Scott in Baltimore
> Arold "Al" Green wrote:
>> Yes, there is a relay and it is working. I am getting 5 volts at the
>> gas tank. This does not seem right - expected 12 volts, so I am still
>> wondering.
>
> Having the service manual would help. I don't have
> one for your model. Might see if a local dealer will
> print off the diagrams for the fuel system.
http://pdftown.com/Jeep-Wrangler-1999-Service-Manual.html
1j...@earthlink.net
My 96 Cherokee 4 lte displayed similiar symptoms. I changed the pump
and filter with no luck. It turned out to be the crankshaft
positioning sensor which was easy to change.
Jim
Old Crow
news:hop7i5togha3b6ilu...@4ax.com...
My wife's '94 Cherokee did that and I had to buy an ECM. That hurt.
Arold "Al" Green
Again, thanks for all the replies. Has been a huge help. Did bypass
the relay and then got the expected 12V at the pump. Pump still does
not run. Have the tank removed and a new pump ordered - should arrive
this week.
I have another question. The pink clip that secures the electrical
connector at the gas tank broke when trying to remove it. The Chrysler
dealer says that they do not sell just the clip and want ~$40 for the
entire connector. I'm sure others have broke this clip (plastic gets
brittle) and wonder what they have done to secure the connector. Hate
to spend that much for a plastic clip.
Thanks for any suggestions. Al
__
Arold "Al" Green
PeterD
<aro...@spamlessmchsi.com> wrote:
>
>I have another question. The pink clip that secures the electrical
>connector at the gas tank broke when trying to remove it. The Chrysler
>dealer says that they do not sell just the clip and want ~$40 for the
>entire connector. I'm sure others have broke this clip (plastic gets
>brittle) and wonder what they have done to secure the connector. Hate
>to spend that much for a plastic clip.
>Thanks for any suggestions. Al
>__
>Arold "Al" Green
Cable tie?
DougW
> Again, thanks for all the replies. Has been a huge help. Did bypass
> the relay and then got the expected 12V at the pump. Pump still does
> not run. Have the tank removed and a new pump ordered - should arrive
> this week.
>
> I have another question. The pink clip that secures the electrical
> connector at the gas tank broke when trying to remove it. The Chrysler
> dealer says that they do not sell just the clip and want ~$40 for the
> entire connector. I'm sure others have broke this clip (plastic gets
> brittle) and wonder what they have done to secure the connector. Hate
> to spend that much for a plastic clip.
> Thanks for any suggestions. Al
Check the "help" section of parts, they tend to have a lot of connectors.
If there is wire on both ends of that connector then just hop over to
a local marine shop and buy a good watertight locking connector.
Who knows, they might have the part as a cheaper harness.
--
DougW
Earle Horton
news:i5kfi5pbjesabfeti...@4ax.com...
I am having a hard time picturing this part but it sounds like something you
don't have to access that often. In that case glue it on there with a dab
of silicon sealer. If you ever have to disconnect it again just cut or yank
off the silicon sealer.
Cheers,
Earle
DougW
> "Arold "Al" Green" wrote ...
The other option is SVRT (Self Vulcanizing Rubber Tape)
Works like a charm to keep connectors connected and dry.
Just remember to put a bit of dilectric grease in the
connector before assembly (spark plug grease) it keeps
the water out.
--
DougW
Earle Horton
connections with rubber tape to insulate, and friction tape over that for
mechanical security. It should work great.
Earle
Will Honea
Now you're making me feel old - I still remember that operation ;-)
For those not all that familiar with the process, go to Lowe's or Home Depot
and buy some "Plumber's Tape". Stretches for a good tight fit, adhesive
coated, sets to a water-tight fitting. I use it on cracks in plastic drain
pipes and haven't seen a leak yet with it. I have some doubts about using
it in an exposed area - I'd bet on it drying out if exposed to the sun but
with a good tight wrap of friction tape it ought to work for years.
Never thought about using it under the car - thanks for the idea, Earle.
--
Will Honea
Old Crow
news:wwlWm.59703$ky1....@newsfe14.iad...
Heh I always called "plumbers tape" that metal tape with all the holes in
it.
DougW
> "Will Honea" wrote...
>> Earle Horton wrote:
>>> "DougW" wrote in message
>>>> The other option is SVRT (Self Vulcanizing Rubber Tape)
>>>> Works like a charm to keep connectors connected and dry.
>>>> Just remember to put a bit of dilectric grease in the
>>>> connector before assembly (spark plug grease) it keeps
>>>> the water out.
>>>>
>>> This is like the old time knob and tube era house wiring. You made
>>> connections with rubber tape to insulate, and friction tape over
>>> that for mechanical security. It should work great.
>>
>> Now you're making me feel old - I still remember that operation ;-)
>>
>> For those not all that familiar with the process, go to Lowe's or
>> Home Depot
>> and buy some "Plumber's Tape". Stretches for a good tight fit,
>> adhesive coated, sets to a water-tight fitting. I use it on cracks
>> in plastic drain
>> pipes and haven't seen a leak yet with it. I have some doubts about
>> using it in an exposed area - I'd bet on it drying out if exposed to
>> the sun but with a good tight wrap of friction tape it ought to work
>> for years. Never thought about using it under the car - thanks for the idea,
>> Earle.
> Heh I always called "plumbers tape" that metal tape with all the
> holes in it.
And if you cut and bend it right you could make a whistle. :)
--
DougW
Old Crow
and I thought I had too much time on my hands. :-)