Update on the flag burners
Jeepaholic
Kevin Sperle
AWood70928
pocket is absurd, given the offense - or maybe not.
It should be more. What price do you place on freedon? What price do you
place on the life of a man or woman who gave their all so you could post your
reply?
If the judge were to ask me how I arived at that figure I would tell him that
my father, his father, my uncles on both sides of the family, and several
friends served our country. Some of them never came home. The shock of seeing
my countries flag burned on this day was great. I am not sure I will ever
recover. The money will be donated to the VFW, to help those who served, those
who gave these people the right to be free.
No, $3000 is not absurd at all, or maybe it is because the sum might be way too
low.
Al
US Marine Corps Retired
94 Jeep Cherokee - designed to go where your SUV has never gone before.
For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never
know.
Tony
I vote to kick their little asses and their parents asses for raising
3 little dickheads instead.
Fuck the money. Let's cane them in public.
I know you're being pragmatic, but I'm not kidding. Take some flesh
out of their asses and the next time the see a flag, i bet they'll
have a little respect.
>Punitive damages generally don't fly too well in small claims. Be
>prepared to answer the judge when he asks "How did you arrive a these
>figures?" Three thousand dollars in your or anyonone elses' pocket is
>absurd, given the offense. Granted, the kids are pretty friggin
>ignorant and insensitive, but I'd say that your comment "to piss them
>off and ruin their day" is equally so.
>If you don't have an answer he likes, be prepared for major
>disappointment, and watch the kids and the parents thumb their noses
>at you. If you stay realistic, you'll win, if not, forget it.
Andy W
Clem
"AWood70928" <awood...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030604133327...@mb-m13.aol.com...
> If the judge were to ask me how I arived at that figure I would tell him
that
> my father, his father, my uncles on both sides of the family, and several
> friends served our country. Some of them never came home. The shock of
seeing
> my countries flag burned on this day was great. I am not sure I will ever
> recover. The money will be donated to the VFW, to help those who served,
those
> who gave these people the right to be free.
I don't think punitive damages will be awarded by small claims court. I've
seen some pretty outrageous rulings handed out, but it's usually when the
defendant gets stupid in court. (Like not listening to the judge when he/she
said shut up.)
That above paragraph might just work on a veteran judge though. :-D
Tom Eller
lost somebody to arrive at your $1000 per person price, ie if there are
10,000 families thats $.10 per family or $1000. Am I making sense? In our
time of frivelous lawsuits and crooked lawyers ( I live next door to the guy
who fell down at the Miami Ohio Football game when he stormed the field and
ran into the other teams coach and is now suing for some ungodly amount) I
think this is one that should win.
Dave Milne
kids did not burn "Freedom" , the bodies of brave dead soldiers or the
American Way. Still, I hope their asses get a good caning for the
destruction of your property and for crass rudeness and insensitivity.
Hopefully their parents will learn from it as well.
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"AWood70928" <awood...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030604133327...@mb-m13.aol.com...
: Poor choice of words - Three thousand dollars in your or anyonone elses'
ki7hy
"Jeepaholic" <jeepahol...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tLmDa.33658$Io.29...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Steve
"Jeepaholic" <jeepahol...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tLmDa.33658$Io.29...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
JustRichie
squirm when they get served with a demand for more than $1000.00.
It's also true the judge may not award Puni's, but he definately won't award
them if you don't ask!!!
Rich
1997 TJ with Sprinkles
http://members.aol.com/justrichie/jeep/index.htm <--Updated a long time ago
If God had not driven man from the Garden of Eden
the Sierra Club would have.
David G
OH...I beg your pardon...It most certainly is the same. Sorry its not held
at the same regard in your country but it is here.
Im not really busting your balls though, because from what I know of you
here, is that you have common sense and an intelligent poster. So my
comments are not meant as a flame to you personally!
Sorry, but I disagree with you.
Dave
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:wZrDa.7263$Kr2.49...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Tyler Dirden
td
"Jeepaholic" <jeepahol...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tLmDa.33658$Io.29...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Lon Stowell
>>>Burning a flag is *not* the same as burning the thing it represents<<
>>
>
> OH...I beg your pardon...It most certainly is the same. Sorry its not held
> at the same regard in your country but it is here.
Only by some folks. Other folks who consider themselves
at least equally or probably more patriotic consider that
the freedom to burn the damn flag if you want to is one of
the things worth getting one's ass shot at for. Note that this
is limited to burning your OWN flag. Burning someone
else's flag is not, In My Non Humble Opinion, covered by
this strong preference for individual liberty and freedom
of expression.
>
> Im not really busting your balls though, because from what I know of you
> here, is that you have common sense and an intelligent poster. So my
> comments are not meant as a flame to you personally!
>
> Sorry, but I disagree with you.
And I with you.
Lon Stowell
The problem is that the newspaper can't report on the names
of the juveniles directly [although if there is a police report
they can report on that]. However, they CAN report that
someone got so pissed off at a buncha JD's that they filed
a claim in small claims court against the little sociopaths
and their parents.
Stick with it. Even just getting the papers served on the
parents is probably a good enough thing.
David G
Good points. My only problem is that the flags being burned are the same
ones on my uniform when those green tracers are usually zinged at me.
Dave
"Lon Stowell" <lon.s...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3EDE6E06...@attbi.com...
Lon Stowell
Lon Stowell
so I don't see how that changes things much. Huge difference
between an abstract symbol and what it represents.
Burn your flag and I'll just look at you because you're an
ass. Burn MY flag and I'll kick your ass.
F. Robert Falbo
> Lets just beat them with the flag poles that were
> holding the flags they burned. Next time they see a flag hanging proud they will
> think twice.
> Now I'm on a mission to teach these fuckers a lesson.
Oh yeah, you gotta love America. I do, and it pisses me off to see
someone burn the American Flag - be it here or overseas. But having to
allow someone to do that is only one of the many prices we pay to be able
to say we're free. And if you can't pay that price, then you don't want
freedom very badly. Freedom is about everybody, not just you, and not
just me. Messages like the two quoted ones above do more damage than any
flag burning could ever do, because they undermine the very fabric of our
freedom.
I couldn't care less what actually happened because I wasn't there to
witness it. However, it's not up to some other person to press any
charges but the person or organization that was "wronged", or it's
official representitive. They could file to be indemnified for damages
done, including costs to replace what was destroyed. It's up to the Judge
what "social" redemption should be required of the perpetrators and their
parents.
One more quick point for the person getting shot at... Were you drafted?
Since the draft ended in 1972 (Yeah, I was in the Service then) you must
have volunteered for the Military. In case you didn't read the fine
print, it means you volunteered to possibly get shot at while carrying
out orders. We as Americans sympathize with soldiers going into war, but
don't rub our faces in it, because there are plenty more dangerous jobs
out there with a lot less recognition - like the Cop on the beat - who is
much more likely to get shot on the job than most soldiers.
-bob-
Nathan W. Collier
news:pan.2003.06.05....@twcny.rr.com...
> like the Cop on the beat - who is
> much more likely to get shot on the job than most soldiers.
hi bob,
you didnt actually just suggest that more cops have been shot than soldiers,
did you? really?
--
Nathan W. Collier
'03 Jeep Rubicon
Ramps are for pussys and posers.....give me rocks!
Lon Stowell
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:44:11 -0700, ki7hy wrote:
>
>
>>Lets just beat them with the flag poles that were
>>holding the flags they burned. Next time they see a flag hanging proud they will
>>think twice.
>
>
>>Now I'm on a mission to teach these fuckers a lesson.
>
>
> Oh yeah, you gotta love America. I do, and it pisses me off to see
> someone burn the American Flag - be it here or overseas. But having to
> allow someone to do that is only one of the many prices we pay to be able
> to say we're free. And if you can't pay that price, then you don't want
> freedom very badly.
Would it change this rant a bit if it weren't THEIR flag they
burnt but HIS flag, on HIS property?
David G
feelings on the subject.
I will continue to agree to disagree.
This being the last I will discuss it on a jeep newsgroup though.
"Nathan W. Collier" <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:zWvDa.24807$nr.21...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Nathan W. Collier
--
Nathan W. Collier
'03 Jeep Rubicon
Ramps are for pussys and posers.....give me rocks!
"David G" <rng...@nospamnc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:EfwDa.59602$jp.11...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
F. Robert Falbo
> F. Robert Falbo wrote:
>> Oh yeah, you gotta love America. I do, and it pisses me off to see
>> someone burn the American Flag - be it here or overseas. But having to
>> allow someone to do that is only one of the many prices we pay to be able
>> to say we're free. And if you can't pay that price, then you don't want
>> freedom very badly.
>
> Would it change this rant a bit if it weren't THEIR flag they
> burnt but HIS flag, on HIS property?
No. Only that _he_ would be within his rights to request indemnification.
-bob-
F. Robert Falbo
> "F. Robert Falbo" <rfa...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.06.05....@twcny.rr.com...
>
>> like the Cop on the beat - who is
>> much more likely to get shot on the job than most soldiers.
>
> hi bob,
> you didnt actually just suggest that more cops have been shot than soldiers,
> did you? really?
In the last 10 years, I'd venture that more Police have been shot than
Soldiers. Of course, with Bush in office, the policy of a War a year will
most likely reverse that.
-bob-
F. Robert Falbo
> I rubbed it in no ones faces....I was simply giving my reasons for my strong
> feelings on the subject.
>
> I will continue to agree to disagree.
Then I apologize. Our right to disagree is a freedom we enjoy, and hoe to
be able to enjoy for many years to come.
-bob-
David G
nope..sure wasnt Nathan....
The post above...sorry bout the confusion
Dave
"Nathan W. Collier" <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:KkwDa.59619$jp.11...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Kevin in Iowa
Justice, let all of America see what the little assholes look like.
Kevin in Iowa
Jeepaholic
"Steve" <srdu...@cox.net> wrote in message news:gWsDa.5850$1e.1600@fed1read04...
Dave Milne
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"David G" <rng...@nospamnc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rZtDa.59077$jp.10...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
: >>Burning a flag is *not* the same as burning the thing it represents<<
: >
: >
:
:
Left of Trotsky
On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:33:06 GMT, Tony <fat_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I think you're right bisbee,
>
>I vote to kick their little asses and their parents asses for raising
>3 little dickheads instead.
>
>Fuck the money. Let's cane them in public.
>
>I know you're being pragmatic, but I'm not kidding. Take some flesh
>out of their asses and the next time the see a flag, i bet they'll
>have a little respect.
>
>
>>Punitive damages generally don't fly too well in small claims. Be
>>prepared to answer the judge when he asks "How did you arrive a these
>>figures?" Three thousand dollars in your or anyonone elses' pocket is
>>absurd, given the offense. Granted, the kids are pretty friggin
>>ignorant and insensitive, but I'd say that your comment "to piss them
>>off and ruin their day" is equally so.
>>If you don't have an answer he likes, be prepared for major
>>disappointment, and watch the kids and the parents thumb their noses
>>at you. If you stay realistic, you'll win, if not, forget it.
Left of Trotsky
the US. You don't speak for us, you only speak for yourself. I'm not
saying this to denigrate your post or opinion, just keeping things in
perspective.
On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:59:51 GMT, "David G" <rng...@nospamnc.rr.com>
wrote:
Left of Trotsky
a volunteer soldier? In theory we don't have any "non-volunteers"
anymore. If you're not in a just fight, why not be upset with the
politicians who decided to put you in that postion?. If is a just and
justifiable fight, you should be grateful that the Almighty gave you
the opportunity to protect the innocent and the weak.
On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 22:27:42 GMT, "David G" <rng...@nospamnc.rr.com>
wrote:
>Lon,
Left of Trotsky
because the offenders are juveniles.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:12:22 -0500, "Andy W" <ahwa...@hot.mail.com>
wrote:
>I think if I were the judge, I would:
>a) require them to pay restitution
>b) provide community service by putting up the flags that will line the streets this coming Veteran's Day
>c) write a letter of apology, explaining the details of their crime, approved by the judge, to ALL the families of the community who have lost a military service person in the line of duty. Hand written only, no photo copies. Good-bye summer vacation!
>
>-Andy W
Left of Trotsky
with things they percieve as crimes. I thought we in the US believed
in "liberty and justice for all". That means the RIGHT to a fair
trial. That means "FREEDOM from cruel and unusual punishment". If
these concepts make me a traitor and unpatriotic, I'm in good company
with the likes of Franklin, Heny and Jefferson.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:44:11 -0700, "ki7hy" <ki...@cox.net> wrote:
>Lets just beat them with the flag poles that were holding the flags they burned. Next time they see a flag hanging proud they will think twice.
Tom Dobrowolsky
>>>Burning a flag is *not* the same as burning the thing it represents<<
>OH...I beg your pardon...It most certainly is the same. Sorry its not held
>at the same regard in your country but it is here.
Quite frankly, I'm more disturbed by the destruction of the very real
things that represent our country and its oft-rumored freedoms: the
decades-long erosion of search-and-seisure laws, the sad death of any
reasonable definitions of probable cause, Herr Klinton's steady undermining
of women's ability make medical decisions about their bodies, and our
current occupying regime's gutting of the Constitution, due process, and
privacy rights. Our own government has been doing a far more effective job
of burning, spitting on, and wiping its ass with our flag and everything it
represents than an entire army of hooligan kids could ever dream of.
Cheers,
/tom
--
( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( * ) ) ) there is no antelope ) )
|
Rev. Tom Mary Dobrowolsky | The Information School
http://students.washington.edu/agent /-\ University of Washington
Kevin in San Diego
email or something. Its always the same trolls too.
KH
"Tom Dobrowolsky" <ag...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bbn8ib$tm8$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
Andy W
of it won't get you put in Juvie, and I don't think this stunt deserves jail
time, but it's obvious that the parents haven't taught these kids any
respect. Restitution and punitive damages will likely only hurt the
parents, and the kids need to be punished. Excessive community sevice won't
be effective; it will just anger the kids and be done half-assed. The kids
need to PERSONNALY go to the houses they vandalized, offer their apoligies
and pay restitution for the damage. They also need to be taught respect and
consideration, and writing the apology letters will give them time to
"reflect." These laws that are intended to "protect" youths from their
stupid mistakes following them into adulthood are misguided. While I agree
that (certain) dumb behavior as a teen should not be brought into adult
courts, part of being an adult is accepting responsibility for your actions.
If we hide the identity of our youth by law, then we are teaching them then
they can behave with impunity. It does not teach personal responsibility,
and that is counterproductive.
-Andy W
"Left of Trotsky" <no...@any.net> wrote in message
news:lu8udvk7ee03d1tdc...@4ax.com...
Lon Stowell
Come Mr. Taliban Tally Me Banana,
Daylight Come and Me Wanna Go Home.
Lon Stowell
recall that this is the one and only significant fact.
2. At the time, there was still an active draft.
3. Not being a fundamentalist muslim terrorist bomber, I prefer
NOT to involve anything related to religion in anything related
to where people are being killed. YMMV.
4. I'll presume you had a point there somewhere.
Lon Stowell
> I think that this would be a good thing for one of those shows like Texas
> Justice, let all of America see what the little assholes look like.
Nah, give them all mullet cuts and chase them thru a trailer
park on "Cops".
Tony
wrote:
>Are you posting from Afghanistan? That's the Taliban's way of dealing
>with things they percieve as crimes. I thought we in the US believed
>in "liberty and justice for all". That means the RIGHT to a fair
>trial. That means "FREEDOM from cruel and unusual punishment". If
>these concepts make me a traitor and unpatriotic, I'm in good company
>with the likes of Franklin, Heny and Jefferson.
WTF do you mean? I'm pretty sure burning his flag constitutes a real
crime, not perceived. It's not like someone suggested caning because
the three dickheads looked at him funny. THey undertook action which
resulted in a crime being committed. They got caught. So what, we're
supposed to feel sorry for them for being dumb?
I'm pretty sure caning would not be cruel, compared to drawing and
quartering them.
Tony
L.W. Hughes III
Kimball
>
> Damn, I didn't realize this was a Taliban newsgroup?
>
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:33:06 GMT, Tony <fat_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I think you're right bisbee,
> >
> >I vote to kick their little asses and their parents asses for raising
> >3 little dickheads instead.
Sorry Trotsky! They are free to burn their own flags, but have NO right to burn
someone elses, in this case Jeepoholic's. So this actually can be taken as a
simple case of vandalism(against our National Icon...). Restitution, community
service, maybe alittle time in Juvie Detention are all appropriate punishments.
Dave Milne
grounds that we don't need one. I'm beginning to think we should. On a
slight tangent, I am pleased to discover that the Home Office (in charge of
immigration) have said that Saddaam's daughters, who want to come and live
here (and who have no money and will need state aid), can get lost. Slightly
less pleased to discover that Saddaam's cousin already lives here...
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Tom Dobrowolsky" <ag...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bbn8ib$tm8$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
Wblane
anyone here in the US is aware of it but Carnivore is ALREADY installed on a
major, unamed ISP in the US. What does Carnivore do? I know it's a high-speed
computer(s) that monitors IP traffic in the US. If that's not scary than what
is.
>Quite frankly, I'm more disturbed by the destruction of the very real
>things that represent our country and its oft-rumored freedoms: the
>decades-long erosion of search-and-seisure laws, the sad death of any
>reasonable definitions of probable cause, Herr Klinton's steady undermining
>of women's ability make medical decisions about their bodies, and our
>current occupying regime's gutting of the Constitution, due process, and
>privacy rights. Our own government has been doing a far more effective job
>of burning, spitting on, and wiping its ass with our flag and everything it
>represents than an entire army of hooligan kids could ever dream of.
>
>
>Cheers,
>/tom
>
>
>--
> ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( * ) ) ) there is no antelope )
>)
> |
> Rev. Tom Mary Dobrowolsky | The Information School
> http://students.washington.edu/agent /-\ University of Washington
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email)
Wblane
Nagasaki -- or maybe the thousands more incinerated at Dresden. Tell it the
survivors of the My-Lai massacre. Tell it to the American Indians who had their
land stolen. Go tell it on the mountain.
>you in that postion?. If is a just and
>justifiable fight, you should be grateful that the Almighty gave you
>the opportunity to protect the innocent and the weak.
Lon Stowell
one location. As for the unnamed ISP, when did Earthlink lose it's
name?
AUTOKAWKR
Post Commander for about 4 years now in Wyoming.
Mr. Bill
at a 4 way stop.....the vehicle with the largest wheels has the right of way
My Jeep is not an SUV....your SUV is not a Jeep
Sean Prinz
burned his house to the ground...I am sick and tired of bullshit responses
like it isn't so bad...it was just a little bit. IT was wrong. IT was
arson. I am sure they didn't break out the hose and stand guard to make
sure it was only the flag that got burned. People that make excuses for
their kids instead of fixing the problem are what is wrong with this
country. The parents should have marched the little turds over to every
house with a brand new flag and made the kids apologize for doing it. And
in case your wondering not once in this post did I mention the fact that it
was the ensign of the United States...because your absolutely right that it
is your freedom to burn it if you want...if it is yours. I have to choke
that out and try not to puke since I have spent the last 28 years defending
your freedom to be an ass.
Sean
99TJ
2KXJ
"Tom Dobrowolsky" <ag...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bbn8ib$tm8$1...@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
Pudljmpr53
>things that represent our country and its oft-rumored freedoms: the
>decades-long erosion of search-and-seisure laws, the sad death of any
>reasonable definitions of probable cause, Herr Klinton's steady undermining
>of women's ability make medical decisions about their bodies, and our
>current occupying regime's gutting of the Constitution, due process, and
>privacy rights. Our own government has been doing a far more effective job
>of burning, spitting on, and wiping its ass with our flag and everything it
>represents than an entire army of hooligan kids could ever dream of.
>
>
>Cheers,
>/tom
>
>
>--
> ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( * ) ) ) there is no antelope )
>)
> |
> Rev. Tom Mary Dobrowolsky | The Information School
> http://students.washington.edu/agent /-\ University of Washington
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Here Here!!
KDA
'91 Yj (YJ?...Y not!)
Diving, Jeeping, and Life... It doesn't get any better!!!
Remove (nospam) to reply in E-Mail
Lee Ayrton
> "F. Robert Falbo" <rfa...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.06.05....@twcny.rr.com...
>
> > like the Cop on the beat - who is
> > much more likely to get shot on the job than most soldiers.
[snip]
> you didnt actually just suggest that more cops have been shot than
> soldiers, did you? really?
He meant to say "taxi cab drivers".
Left of Trotsky
fireworks made illegal on the fourth of July. And if a frog had wings
he wouldn't bump his butt everytime he jumped either.
BTW, you haven't spent any time defendng my freedom. I have done an
excellent job of that, including avoid being brain-washed by what
Dwight Eisenhower called the "military industrial establishment", You
didn't join the military for my sake. I have never asked you to do
that. You did it for your own reasons. If anyone has protected
anyone's freedoms, I have by arguing for the rule of law, morality and
honesty in government at home. Andi fighting the growing fascist
tendencies of our gorvernment and lying politidcians.You joined for
your own reasons. That is what freedom and responsibility are about,
accepting responsibiltiy for one's own decisions. Sorry if you feel
like you wasted the last 28 years of your life working toward the
culmunation of our occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.
I realize you think I'm an ass. That's okay with me 'cause I think you
are a neo-nazi. That and a buck will get us both a cup of coffee. I'm
just glad I haven't wasted the last 54 years of my life wandering
around in some delusional fantasy in which everyone is supposed to
conform to my version of "the truth".
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:03:41 -0700, "Sean Prinz" <s_p...@msn.com>
wrote:
Thomas Waldron
Algiers in the middle of the night during a hailstorm? He might bump
even with wings...I dunno.
Left of Trotsky wrote:
> So if catching the roof on fire is your concern I guess you want
> fireworks made illegal on the fourth of July. And if a frog had wings
> he wouldn't bump his butt everytime he jumped either.
--
___________________________________________________________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/tj/twaldron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
___________________________________________________________
Flash
> I have by arguing for the rule of law, morality and
>honesty in government at home.
BWAHAHAHA!
Don't take it too bad, but I don't think you can call your work a total
success... Get back to us once you've actually achieved this.
Kelly
Lon Stowell
> So if catching the roof on fire is your concern I guess you want
> fireworks made illegal on the fourth of July. And if a frog had wings
> he wouldn't bump his butt everytime he jumped either.
So, I guess next memorial day, we'll all meet at your yard
and burn anything loose we can find, since you apparently
consider this acceptable behavior.
AWood70928
You ARE an ass.
If it were not for people who put themselves in harms way to protect those who
cannot or WILL not, you might not have the pleasure of being able to voice
your opinions in this or any other forum, public or private.
Who exactly do you think protects your rights to "argue the rule of law,
marality and honesty in government at home?" Who protects your right to
"fight the growing fascist tendencies of our government and lying politicians?"
Those words would have gotten you and your family an early appoitment with Alah
were you an Iraqi citizen six months ago.
We all contribute in our own way. Some with courage and pride, some simply as
examples of how not to be.
Freedom is not free.
There is a high price to be paid to maintain our freedoms.
Those who make the ultimate sacrafice are the lucky ones.
The rest of us have to come home and listen to people like you, knowing full
well that we put ourselves in harms way so fools like you could speak your
"mind". Even so you could call me a neo-nazi.
That sir, is the real price of freedom.
Al
USMC Retired
94 Cherokee
Left of Trotsky
and have them get back to you. :)
Left of Trotsky
polictians. The current crop (Bush, Cheney, et al) are the zenith of
this skill set.
Left of Trotsky
just wasn't going to go from flag burning to the roof catching on fire
without evidence. If you want to come to my house and set stuff on
fire I prorobably wont suprise the neighbors. They've seen Klansman
before. By the same token, I don't think it will surprise the local
law enforcement people who come to cart you off. And if you are and
adult (are you?) it will make the papers probably.
On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 00:38:05 GMT, Lon Stowell <lon.s...@attbi.com>
wrote:
Flemin Snotballen
Do you honestly think this overly emotional, socialist retard will
understand this? He thinks our kind IS the problem. Why waste your time
trying to convince him otherwise brother?
He obviously is not capable of critical thinking.
--
F.S.
------------------------------------------
91 YJ - 7" SOA/ D60 f&r
94 XJ - 6" Rock Ready/ D30f & D44r
03 CRF450R
96 CR250
AWood70928
>understand this?
No, but I feel a lot better now.
Worked on the jeep all day. Busted knuckles, scrapes and scratches, grease and
grime, lost of sweat and a few choice words.
What better way to end the day.
Matt Macchiarolo
<no...@any.net> writes:
> I
>just wasn't going to go from flag burning to the roof catching on fire
>without evidence.
Here's a little multiple choice on "cause and effect:"
Flag hanging on a pole on a house. Beavis and Butthead, thinking it would be
"like, kewl," set fire to the flag. Fifteen minutes later, the house in
engulfed in flames.
What was the most likely cause of the inferno that happened in such close
temporal proximity to the delinquent's prank?
(a) Superman's heat vision
(b) Spontaneous combustion of the attic insulation
(c) A volcano lava shaft opened up in the basement
(d) None of the above
* * *
Matt Macchiarolo
www.townpeddler.com
www.wolverine4wd.org
http://wolverine4wd.org/rigs/macchiarolo_ml.html
Flemin Snotballen
Left of Trotsky
You are entitled to your opinion even if it is misinformed and wrong.
It is oblivious my opinion of you is congruent with your's of me. I'm
sure the Iraqi's appreciate the "freedom" you think we went to war
for.That's why they are demanding we go home.
Too bad they were standing on OUR oil. Right now they are an occupied
country. A colonial satelite of the United States and American oil
interests. If we really care about Liberty, why haven't we invaded
China? North Korea? Chile? Somalia? Where are the WMDs? Where is
Osama? Where is Saddam? Get real. It's about the oil stupid!
You didn't put yourself in harm's way for me. If you believe tha then
you have bought a bunch of rubbish. You did it because you chose to do
it. It's called free will, a basic tenet of Christianity. don't
confuse your beliefs with facts.
Left of Trotsky
point of view is a retard. Critical thinking my ass. You aren't
capapble of thinking. Just name calling. Same thing back to you
fascist.
Flemin Snotballen
"Left of Trotsky" <no...@any.net> wrote in message
news:6un2ev8l9s9cisr6g...@4ax.com...
> Seig Heil to you too! Just as I thought anyone who disagrees with your
> point of view is a retard. Critical thinking my ass. You aren't
> capapble of thinking. Just name calling. Same thing back to you
> fascist.
Typical retort of someone with your mental accuity.
You've proven my point very well.
Thank you. You're dismissed.
--
F.S.
------------------------------------------
91 YJ - 7" SOA/ D60 f&r
94 XJ - 6" Rock Ready/ D30f & D44r
03 CRF450R
96 CR250
>
L.W. Hughes III
that don't back up their rhetoric with facts, and like birds of a
feather, and haven't the guts to sign this BS, nor use a real address.
So go play somewhere else you coward.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHug...@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
Left of Trotsky
mention of the house being set of fire by the burning of the flag.
Please return to reality. Facts, just the facts.
On 07 Jun 2003 03:32:33 GMT, mlma...@aol.comspambgon (Matt
Left of Trotsky
person you are debating with,so you resort to personal attack.
Unethical, ill-mannered and cowardly behavior. Typical Conservative
Republican.
And Bill, you can stop wondering where all that spam is coming from in
your mailbox. It's from your naive posting of your email addy on
Usenet. I bet the ARVN suprised you too.
Flash
>Worked on the jeep all day. Busted knuckles, scrapes and scratches, grease and
>grime, lost of sweat and a few choice words.
>
>What better way to end the day.
You said it! I'm partially disabled and after a long day at work, came
home and did some work crawling under mine as well. Feels good, don't
it!
Oops. Sorry... I wandered onto topic.
Kelly
L.W. Hughes III
standing on OUR oil." without facts! Standard Oil of California, (which
I was a part of) and Shell relinquish their holdings back in the early
seventies, as OPEC and nationalization occurred.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=arab+oil+OPEC+nationalization&btnG=Google+Search
I guess you've probably never heard of filters, and being a girlie
boy are offended by the spam you open rather than high light and delete
like the rest of us. learn to be a man and take responsibility for your
actions.
Sean Prinz
a difference of opinion which id fine, but then you make statements about
how you defended your freedoms yourself by arguing for law and
whatever....that's great. Lets compare our lives, we are free, the cold
war is over, peace has a minute chance in the mideast....I guess I was
moderately successful at my chosen profession. You on the other hand don't
like the government, politicians(at least republicans) or much else...what
did all your "arguing" get you, do you have job satisfaction? What will you
tell your grandkids you did to make the world a better place? The original
intent of the whole thread has been lost as has my comment which was
probably badly worded....in today's society of instant gratification the end
result is not evaluated prior to action being taken. Those kids could have
caused the significant loss of property and possibly life based on an
illegal and reckless act. They and their parents need to be made to
understand it isn't cute or acceptable in our society.
And on a more personal note...be glad I am not a fireman....because I
wouldn't walk across the street to piss on you if you were on fire.
Sean
"Left of Trotsky" <no...@any.net> wrote in message
news:tn72ev8a274416o7q...@4ax.com...
Lon Stowell
[nothing of interest, and since he is unarmed in the
battle of wits, why don't we all call a truce and just
ignore the little retard. His baby sister will kick
his butt anyway as soon as she catches him wanking
on her computer]]
Left of Trotsky
THEIR country. Be a man and stop spinning the truth.
On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:13:31 GMT, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
L.W. Hughes III
of difference between the two. I am a man, and I served my country,
US56375731: http://www.billhughes.com/recognition.jpg
have you?
Left of Trotsky
and a great deal of the work I have done has had a positive impact on
public safety and law enforcement. In short, if I'm not successful at
what I do on a daily basis, people(both law enforcment and citizens)
may die. My work is very time sensitive and stressful work. I love
doing it!! I enjoy my work and believe I have benefited society. Does
that make me special? Nope, that is what a decent human being should
do.Does that mean my opinion is the only correct on? Nope. If I
believed that, I wouldn't bother posting a dissenting opinion on this
or any newsgroup.
As a society of laws, we can not prosecute people on what "could have"
happened or what was "possible" . We have to deal in court on the
basis of what DID happen. We work on the basis of FACTS. We don't deal
in hysterical ovestatement.
I'm not condoning what was alleged to have taken place. Just because
someone burns an American Flag ( a symbol) and someone else's personal
property does not justify elevating the incident to the same level of
"setting the roof on fire". Another individual wanted the perpetrators
to be held up to publc shame even though they were juveniles. I
believe we have good reasons for this type of protection for
juveniles.
Destroying someone eles's property is wrong. I suspect the parents of
those kids have talked to them (and local law enforcement officers
too). Will it have any effect? Who knows? If they reach the age of
adulthood and commit more crimes and misdemeanors, they will be dealt
with in a more stringent manner. Is this approach perfect? Nope, but
it is better than the type of vigilateism that was being advocated in
some of the posts in this thread.
My original point, before all of the name calling started was that we
live in a county where there is still the rule of law and a respect
for due process. Once we eschew that principal we are heading towards
the type of vigilante system we supposedly have elimated in
Afghanistan.
As for what I like and don't like, you have no way of knowing that. It
is true that I'm highly suspiciuos of government, In that respect I'm
in good company. The founding fathers didn't trust government either.
I have a lot of experience dealing with government agencies and while
I greatly respect many of the public servants I have worked with, I
have also witnessed first hand a great dial of corruption.
I'm glad you're not a fireman. I know lots of them. You don't have the
heart to be a fireman or the ethic of self sacrifice of a firefighter.
Your last post proves it. If your house was on fire, I would try to
rescue you. Thanks for pointing out the difference between you and me.
Not because I like you, but simply because you would be a human being
in need of help. I feel sorry for you. It must be hell to be carrying
all of that resentment around in your heart.
On a more positive note, thanks for debating the issues with me,
rather than just engaging in name calling as others have done in this
thread. That took a bit of class. For that I salute you.
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 09:03:07 -0700, "Sean Prinz" <s_p...@msn.com>
Left of Trotsky
have a total lack of class. Your posts prove it. QED The only one
doing any wanking here is you. And leave your sister and her computer
out of it!
On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:24:10 GMT, Lon Stowell <lon.s...@attbi.com>
wrote:
>Left of Trotsky wrote:
F. Robert Falbo
> I don't think I will ever achieve this. There are just too many lying
> polictians. The current crop (Bush, Cheney, et al) are the zenith of
> this skill set.
You're preaching to the wrong newsgroup. If you polled most people here,
they'd tell you that this Administration is the best one they've ever
known (Which should tell you something about their political astuteness).
They're not intrested in hearing that they've been lied to at every turn
by the very people they voted for. This is truly the age of
"doublespeak", where every poison pill is sugarcoated, and they crave more
sugar.
You're talking to a group of Americans that think Government is bad, and
Government regulations are worse. They don't remember a time when whole
families dropped dead after eating bad meat, or when there was no Medicare
or Social Security, or Unemployment, or when Industries were free to
exploit workers with no regard to health or safety, and a work week was
80 or more hours.
They've never read "The Jungle" (they'd think it was a fairy tale), or the
book about the Triangle fire, and they surely would never read "1984".
These are people who think Ralf Nader is a leftist, and the ACLU are a
bunch of Communists (The fact that the ACLU's charter is to uphold the US
Constitution probably means nothing to them.)
Yup. These are fine pickin's for the Bush/Cheney Administration, because
PT Barnum was right, and a little bit of truth makes a big lie go down a
lot easier.
-bob-
Dave Milne
yet, introduced widespread torture or created a secret police. That's a
fact. My personal opinion is that there were enough altruistic reasons for
invading Iraq to cover the less altruistic ones. Who care's if there were or
weren't any WMDs ? Who cares if Bush was motivated to finish the job his Dad
didn't ? Sure, oil is going to be very important in the rebuilding of Iraq
since its about the only decent commodity they have. If Iraq gets a decent
country out of its oil revenues , its at a fair price, and America gains a
decent supplier out of helping them out, then that would not be a bad thing
in my opinion. Clearly the onus is on the world not to walk away from Iraq
and to ensure it does become an independent self governing country again. If
the US wanted to steal oil, then its worth pointing out that Saudi has a lot
more oil than Iraq, and harbours terrorists too.
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Left of Trotsky" <no...@any.net> wrote in message
news:4ul4evsg4gdme407s...@4ax.com...
: The FACT remains. WE are occupying their country! We are controlling
DougW
> That's true, we are. However, we haven't killed an estimated 250,000 people
> yet, introduced widespread torture or created a secret police. That's a
> fact. My personal opinion is that there were enough altruistic reasons for
> invading Iraq to cover the less altruistic ones. Who care's if there were or
> weren't any WMDs ? Who cares if Bush was motivated to finish the job his Dad
> didn't ? Sure, oil is going to be very important in the rebuilding of Iraq
> since its about the only decent commodity they have. If Iraq gets a decent
> country out of its oil revenues , its at a fair price, and America gains a
> decent supplier out of helping them out, then that would not be a bad thing
> in my opinion. Clearly the onus is on the world not to walk away from Iraq
> and to ensure it does become an independent self governing country again. If
> the US wanted to steal oil, then its worth pointing out that Saudi has a lot
> more oil than Iraq, and harbours terrorists too.
That would depend on if you count the clearances or not.
--
DougW
Aut Pax Aut Bellam
Dave Milne
[ btw your sig should read "Aut Pax aut Bellum" ]
Dave Milne, Scotland
"DougW" <post.r...@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:2QtEa.230837$3n5.1...@news2.central.cox.net...
:
:
DougW
> explain more ?
>
> [ btw your sig should read "Aut Pax aut Bellum" ]
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
True..
Simple fact is I misread your post and buggered up on the reply.
My bad.. :/
Anyhow, this isn't rec.politics, it's a Jeep group.
Hows your Jeep doing these days. Mine is getting a
new CPS sensor. Unfortunately the lawn mower and chainsaw
had to have engine work done first.
Thomas Waldron
Dave Milne wrote:
> That's true, we are. However, we haven't [SNIP]or created a secret police.
--
___________________________________________________________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/tj/twaldron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
___________________________________________________________
L.W. Hughes III
We are a Jeep group, a symbol of our heritage, in the winning of
W.W. II. We pay our taxes, and most have served our country, and would
do it again if called on. And are sick and tired of you bleeding heart
liberals, that's why we voted you out!
Dave Milne
the transfer case mod to route the breather pipes into the engine bay. I
suppose with CPSs failure being fairly common, I should get one just in case
and carry it around with me..
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"DougW" <post.r...@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:94uEa.230846$3n5....@news2.central.cox.net...
:
:
Dave Milne
normal helicopters .... [insane laughter]
Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
"Thomas Waldron" <obvious...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3EE26DF5...@sbcglobal.net...
: How do you know? Maybe yours is just better than ours. :)
Thomas Waldron
DougW
> Mine's awaiting a new D44 axle seal and bearing. After that, I'm going to do
> the transfer case mod to route the breather pipes into the engine bay. I
> suppose with CPSs failure being fairly common, I should get one just in case
> and carry it around with me..
Yep. I plan on keeping the old (but malfunctioning) CPS sensor just for that
purpose. FWIW, I ordered it from buymopar.com for $53.06US. They give the
dealership price as 70.75!
Left of Trotsky
Left of Trotsky
their arguments. Again....and again....
The Bushies love big government and lying 'cause they love Bush. The
also are thrilled with deficit spending 'cause lil Gergie is doing a
ton of it ( a historical record, and with a republcan congress no
less )and they are silent. Just demonstrates their hypocrisy when
Clinton was in offiece and they kept whining about the deficit. They
don't care anything about the deficit. All they care about is
themselves, their money, and political power.
Left of Trotsky
those people. During the Reagan Administration we advised them on how
to use poison gas against the (iranian) kurds.The US government helped
put Saddam in power. We created that monster.
Who cares' if there are no WMDs? You should 'cause it means that
George Bush is a monumental liar. Do you like liars? Seems like
everybody wanted to Impeach Clinton about lying about a BJ. That's a
big sin, but lying to start a war isn't. Where is your sense of
morality man? Are you saying lying is alright as long as someone you
like is doing it? Take your time formulating an answer.
Bush's family is in bed with the Saudis. Ever heard of the Carlyle
Group? The Bush Family and the Bin Ladne family are sorta co-owners
of that company. We'll never attack them. Besides, now we control
their oil too.
Another late breaking news flash for you. The onus is on us. We are
the ones who created this mess. The world will hold us accountable to
clean it up.
Thomas Waldron
Left of Trotsky
Republican Supreme court.
L.W. Hughes III
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_ugroup=alt.politics.bush&as_uauthors=Left%20of%20Trotsky&lr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=7&as_maxm=6&as_maxy=2003&hl=en
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
Thomas Waldron
Lon Stowell
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:11:56 -0400, Left of Trotsky wrote:
>
>
>>I don't think I will ever achieve this. There are just too many lying
>>polictians. The current crop (Bush, Cheney, et al) are the zenith of
>>this skill set.
>
>
> You're preaching to the wrong newsgroup.
Well, yeah, it says "JEEP" up there somewhere. Not a whole
heck of a lot about jerkoffs and politics, although it doesn't
seem to be stopping you much.
Lon Stowell
Lon Stowell
service. His theme song replaces his drivel.]
They're Coming to Take me Away, Ha-Haaa!
Napoleon XIV
Remember when you ran away
And I got on my knees
And begged you not to leave
Because I'd go beserk
Well you left me anyhow
And then the days got worse and worse
And now you see I've gone
Completely out of my mind
And they're coming to take me away ha-haaa
They're coming to take me away ho ho hee hee ha haaa
To the funny farm
Where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those nice young men
In their clean white coats
And they're coming to take me away ha haaa
You thought it was a joke
And so you laughed
You laughed when I said
That losing you would make me flip my lid
Right? You know you laughed
I heard you laugh. You laughed
You laughed and laughed and then you left
But now you know I'm utterly mad
And they're coming to take me away ha haaa
They're coming to take me away ho ho hee hee ha haaa
To the happy home with trees and flowers and chirping birds
And basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away ha haaa
I cooked your food
I cleaned your house
And this is how you pay me back
For all my kind unselfish, loving deeds
Ha! Well you just wait
They'll find you yet and when they do
They'll put you in the A.S.P.C.A.
You mangy mutt
And they're coming to take me away ha haaa
They're coming to take me away ha haaa ho ho hee hee
To the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those nice young men
In their clean white coats
And they're coming to take me away
To the happy home with trees and flowers and chirping birds
And basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away ha haaa!
Flemin Snotballen
> Well, I hate to break it to you, but your government helped him kill
> those people. During the Reagan Administration we advised them on how
> to use poison gas against the (iranian) kurds.The US government helped
> put Saddam in power. We created that monster.
>
> Who cares' if there are no WMDs? You should 'cause it means that
> George Bush is a monumental liar. Do you like liars? Seems like
> everybody wanted to Impeach Clinton about lying about a BJ. That's a
> big sin, but lying to start a war isn't. Where is your sense of
> morality man? Are you saying lying is alright as long as someone you
> like is doing it? Take your time formulating an answer.
>
> Bush's family is in bed with the Saudis. Ever heard of the Carlyle
> Group? The Bush Family and the Bin Ladne family are sorta co-owners
> of that company. We'll never attack them. Besides, now we control
> their oil too.
>
> Another late breaking news flash for you. The onus is on us. We are
> the ones who created this mess. The world will hold us accountable to
> clean it up.
These socialist rantings aren't even amusing anymore.
You aren't going to change one persons mind here about what they believe.
Keep this in mind, Just because you have a sharp tongue does not mean you
have a sharp mind.
--
F.S.
------------------------------------------
91 YJ - 7" SOA/ D60 f&r
94 XJ - 6" Rock Ready/ D30f & D44r
03 CRF450R
96 CR250