Any 300K miles engine around? Need real data...
JOHN SHENG
Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
Where to get the new engine parts?
Working in Bay Area (US) requires travelling alot, at least
100 miles a day. Expect 30,000 miles per yr. Thus, your
$20,000 brand new car only last LESSER than 10 yrs?! That's
terrible!
Want to know which brand car last most? And how to accomplish
that. No bias, must real data.
Your beloved US$20,000 brand new car's maufcture 100,000 miles
will be "expired" after 3.5 yrs in that situation, 100 miles a day
go to and return from work. That's a terrible waste, isn't it?
If it's a top of line BMW or Mercedes, which might costs
about US$100,000. And only last for 7 yrs?! ... :(.
Didn't see any BIMMER report high-mileage on their cars
lately, thus I feel especially intereset to BMWs. Of course,
they cost alot, but cannot last, oh that's too bad.
Thank you.
P.S.: No time to correct typoes...
USER
it is easier than you think to get a very high mileage car.
What will differ is the amount of money to get it there.
I would trust an Honda Accord, but my experience is that I wouldn't trust an
Audi (I have laid down 7000$ before 100000 miles!)
With a good car, about worst that can appear is an engine overhaul. Don't
let the car rust, too.
carl ginn
JOHN SHENG wrote:
my girlfriend has a mid-eighties camry with 240+ thousand miles. Her mom
bought it
new and all they have done is change oil, timing belt. BTW she had the
oil changed last
week and noticed that it had been 10,000 miles since the last oil
change!
wmstevenson
cylinder 2SE engine with an automatic transmission. I have owned it since
new and have never had to replace anything in the engine or transmission.
Compression is still within specifications and I still get 40 mpg freeway.
I have two other 86 Camrys with 180,000 and 200,000 on them that are still
running. I put on 100 miles a day and change the oil and filter every 5,000
miles. The weak spots on the 86 Camrys are the mufflers (replaced every 2
years so get one with a lifetime guarantee) and front lower control arms
(replaced both sides once in all three Camrys because of bushing cracks).
Timing belts must be changed as scheduled (every 60 k) and alternators need
to be replaced at about 200,000 miles due to brush failure. An 86 Camry
with a sound body can be purchased for under $2,500 in the San Diego area.
carl ginn <cg...@datasync.com> wrote in article
<367280CF...@datasync.com>...
JH
has 350,000 miles on it. He has had no engine work done but has been
merticulus in fluid changes. He has contacted or was contacted by toyota
and was told that they know of one other car that tops that mileage , that
car has 400000 miles on it.
No engine or transmission work except for the fuel pump.
Jim H.
Matt O'Toole
RAY BUCKLES wrote in message <01be2640$9de5d440$f5b2dcd0@RBUCKLES>...
>
>
>I can only hope that the new 4-runner I'm getting this month has as few
>problems as the 86 Honda CRX that I've been driving for the last 13 years.
>I have accumulated over 354,000 miles on this car since new. There has
>been no engine work or transmission work done on the car, other than a
>water pump, three timing belts, a few valve adjustments, and a seal under
>the carb. Clutch replaced at 177,000 miles. Still gets over 45mpg. It is
>getting tired, but still dependable, and has never failed to start.
That's a pretty good number of miles. Still, there's no reason not to get
this kind of mileage if you don't have some kind of catastrophic failure,
most of which are preventable. I notice you took care of your water pumps
and timing belts. On that CRX, a water pump failure means a timing belt
failure, takng the whole engine with it. If you take care of this stuff
before the car self destructs, it will run and run. I think this is the
same for most cars.
In most cases, excessive engine wear is the result of lack of oil changes,
running in an out-of-tune state, or with a compromised cooling system;
perhaps for tens of thousands of miles. Most engines will outlast the rest
of the car if routine maintainence is performed. However, maintainence
aside, many drivers are not mechanically sensitive enough to realize when
something has gone awry, so they drive on and on, 'til something really bad
happens.
My 325e has almost 300K. The motor runs perfectly, burning just a quart
between oil changes. The car looks great because it was well cared for, but
"needs" new wheel bearings, shocks, ball joints, bushings, some driveshaft
work, a shifter rebuild, a clutch cylinder, etc. I take care of this stuff
myself a little at a time, but to pay someone to fix all of it would cost
more than the car is worth. Notice, none of it has anything to do with the
motor. At this point, most people would sell the car, or drive it into the
ground. That's how cars die. Anything will last forever if you fix it when
it breaks.
Matt O.
Stefan Schader
I currently have on my '85 740 GLE 439,000 km with NO engine work done
at all! Changed the waterpump 6 years ago and did the crankshaft front
oil seal this summer myself while also changing the timing belt. Last
year I finally put some new spark plug wires on it but I havn't
touched the original distributor yet.
I have changed the timing belt every 70,000 km or less and changed oil
and filter at an average of 5,000 to 7,000 km. In the past year I have
switched to synthetic oil. Seems to run better ( or so I imagine ).
Oil consumption is about 1 litre per 4,000 km which I think is
excellent.
Too bad that the body is now rusting badly because the car runs
excellent.
RAY BUCKLES
I can only hope that the new 4-runner I'm getting this month has as few
problems as the 86 Honda CRX that I've been driving for the last 13 years.
I have accumulated over 354,000 miles on this car since new. There has
been no engine work or transmission work done on the car, other than a
water pump, three timing belts, a few valve adjustments, and a seal under
the carb. Clutch replaced at 177,000 miles. Still gets over 45mpg. It is
getting tired, but still dependable, and has never failed to start.
Ray
allanwilliams
I was at it I did the belts and waterpump - cost me NZ$1000 just for parts!
My new (to me) 91 BMW 325iSE is cheaper to repair - I looked into the price
of parts, and similar ones are nearly 50% cheaper for the BMW(cambelt -
Toyota=$250, BMW= $150 WITH the tensioner)- and those are genuine BMW parts!
My old 85 Holden was the worst though - fully rebuilt engine and trans
mission needed before it got to 120,000Kms
We had a 91 Honda civic 1300 16V which at 130,000 Kms needed a set of rings
and at least one new tappet, so we sold it and brought a newer holden. A
friend with a similar holden got 320,000Kms from his engine but it had three
new heads put on it (3.0l inline 6, made by Nissan)
--
Allan Williams
E-Mail me:
allanwilliams AT hotmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------
RAY BUCKLES wrote in message <01be2640$9de5d440$f5b2dcd0@RBUCKLES>...
>
>
the_t...@my-dejanews.com
inj@taurus (JOHN SHENG ) wrote:
> Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> Where to get the new engine parts?
I have a 1979 Volvo 245 with 287,000 miles on it. Original engine, though
not the original head. I had a cooling problem of my own making which led to
overheating and a cracked head when towing, and ended up replacing the head
with a used unit. Nothing else on the engine is showing much wear.
I had a 1986 Saab 900 Turbo, the 16-valve. It was retired at 234,000 miles
due to another cooling problem. Again, everything else major on the engine
was original.
> Working in Bay Area (US) requires travelling alot, at least
> 100 miles a day. Expect 30,000 miles per yr. Thus, your
> $20,000 brand new car only last LESSER than 10 yrs?! That's
> terrible!
Working in the DC area also requires traveling a lot. I put about 128 miles
a day on my (new/old) 1986 Saab, the one that replaced the other 1986. This
car has 194,000 miles and has needed only a rebuilt gearbox, according to the
place I got it. I expect it to reach 350,000 miles.
> Want to know which brand car last most? And how to accomplish
> that. No bias, must real data.
Almost ANY car should be able to reach 150,000 miles. Many can reach
200,000. Some can hit 300,000, and a very few can be expected to last
essentially forever with proper care.
I use that phrase "with proper care" very deliberately. I did not say "with
needing only minor parts or no major work." No mechanical device can be
expected to last forever with no maintenance at all. Most motor vehicles
require only minor parts and work to a certain point, but then what otherwise
might be called "major work" becomes an item of scheduled maintenance. Heavy
trucks, for example, are commonly rebuilt after 400,000-500,000 miles. If you
get a car to that level, expect to rebuild it to restore useful performance.
Then it becomes an issue of which cars were designed and built to make that
work easy and accessible. Volvo, for example, leaves tons and tons of space
on their older engines where they can be bored out if needed. Mercedes-Benz
designs engines in such a way that they expect that such work will be done,
but the cars will keep on going if they don't get it.
Hallmarks of "forever" designs tend to be based around the idea that failure
of one component will not cause failure of others. Small examples might be,
ensure that if the voltage regulator fails it doesn't destroy the computer.
Big examples are, non-interference engine valve layouts, so that when (not
if) the timing belt fails it coasts quietly to a stop like my Volvo, instead
of instantly destroying most of the engine like some Japanese and American
cars. Things like this lead to junking of a car for want of a $28 part (which
is criminal) versus junking a car for failure of a $2000 part (which I can
sort of understand).
And the owner's role is critical. Murkins tend to drive their cars on and on
until the car complains, and then they take restorative action. A better
approach is pro-active, so that you don't wait for the oil light to add oil.
You don't wait for the timing belt or fan belt to break or a hose to blow
(which was what killed one Saab for me), you replace it. Oil, coolant,
refrigerant, belts, seals, hoses, CV joint boots, even fuses and wires...
anything consumable on the car must be taken seriously or you'll be lucky to
get the car to 100,000.
And lastly, for people who live where road salt is used, you are absolutely
SENTENCED to doing something: WASH YOUR CAR. I get incredibly, incredibly
fed up with people in Pennsylvania, Michigan and New York who whine about how
badly their expensive cars are rusting, and then when asked, reveal that they
wash the car mainly once a month if ever. My parents used to do that...
their cars would rust out in three years and they thought it "wasteful" to
wash them. They never did. I've known regular washing to STOP rust in its
tracks, to curtail the spread even on a car with noticeable rust. The moment
you stop washing it, the corrosion resumes. It's no wonder there are no 1980
Saabs, Volvos, BMWs and certainly no Fiats in Rochester, New York... unless
they were washed or not driven from November to April.
Turtle
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Ron Vopicka
> cylinder 2SE engine with an automatic transmission. I have owned it since
> new and have never had to replace anything in the engine or transmission.
> Compression is still within specifications and I still get 40 mpg freeway.
> I have two other 86 Camrys with 180,000 and 200,000 on them that are still
> running. I put on 100 miles a day and change the oil and filter every 5,000
> miles. The weak spots on the 86 Camrys are the mufflers (replaced every 2
> years so get one with a lifetime guarantee) and front lower control arms
> (replaced both sides once in all three Camrys because of bushing cracks).
> Timing belts must be changed as scheduled (every 60 k) and alternators need
> to be replaced at about 200,000 miles due to brush failure.
I have an 86 Camry that just turned 273,000 miles. It has the 4
cylinder 2SE engine with an manual transmission. I have owned it since
new and have never had to replace anything in the engine or
transmission.
Compression is still within specifications and I still get 38 mpg
freeway
(was 40-41 for the first 200K miles). I used to put on 80 miles a day
and change the oil and filter every 10,000 miles.
Maintenance in a nutshell:
Oil/filters every 10k miles (now I'm down to 7.5K miles, drive it less
and try to change it twice a year (spring and early winter).
Tires and alignment every 66K miles (average)
Spark plugs every 33K miles
Air filter every 100K miles
Brake pads every 100K miles (average)
Brake shoes @ 200K miles
Muffler (lifetime) at 107k and then every 70k miles
Shock absorbers (lifetime) at 110k and 60k on replacements
Camshaft drive belt every 90-95K miles - note, when it breaks, nothing
bad
happens, not enough valve lift on that model engine. On the second
replacement the water pump and thermostat were replaced as a
preventative measure, not due to failure, but a little evidence of
possible coolant leakage. That was also the only time the coolant wa
changed. Fan belt also changed at that time.
Alternator Brushes at 128k and again at 168k (I fixed it that time, but
it
is coming due again)
Tailpipe (cat converter to muffler) replaced 186K and 272K (Toyota
replacement
was no where near as good as the orginal aluminized pipe).
Exhaust pipe (from exhaust manifold to front of catalytic converter)
replaced
at 262K miles.
Failures:
Fuel Pump @ 263K miles
Front disk rotors @ 220K miles (there was originally a recall on these,
but since I had no problems during the first 150k, it didn't really
seem
to apply. Inboard surfaces started to "peel".
Distributor electronics @ 261k miles. Replaced whole distributor
(including sparkplug wires, dist cap, rotor, body AND electronics...
which was cheaper!
Comments:
The car has had 1 dealer "tune-up" which was useless since as it turned
out the gas mileage always drops in the winter and goes back up in the
spring. Since then, other than screwing in new spark plug (and the
replacement of the dist above) no other "tune ups". Car has always been
well within emissions standards.
No clutch replacement.
No valve adjustments required.
I obviously don't believe in changing oil much sooner than 10k miles (or
twice a year, whichever comes first).
Windshield wiper blades go about 3 years.
2 plastic clamps (less than $2 each have "failed"
Power steering pump has developed a drip (in the winter).
A well designed car requires little to no maintenance and has a minimum
of failures.
Ron
Eyvind Spangen
the odometer. Runs and runs and.... Needed new inlet/exhaust manifolds
at about 350K miles, but else, it is like new. Burns no oil, gets 40
mpg, tight and will probably make it out at least 200K more..
ES
Dave Bour
cited author.]
In article <74tjqv$j...@news.csus.edu>, inj@taurus says...
>
> Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> Where to get the new engine parts?
I had (just replaced it in Aug this year) a 90 Integra RS 2D with Manual
transmission. Put 320K on it. Hit a can of paint which just fell off a
truck in front of me at highway speed. Ended up punching a hole in the
rad, cat and gas tank. Given it needed a new timing belt, heater no
longer worked and it overheated every summer, I figured the time had come
to replace it.
As for engine work, did oil changes every 6-9K (all highway miles, very
clean running). Did water pump and timing belt every 80K. Did new
tires every year. Body (trunk, right rear panel) might?? have made
another year but probably would have been pretty drafty. Rad flushed
every year. Brakes done once a year. Still had original clutch when car
was retired. Almost felt criminal getting a grand for it when I turned
it in. The sad part is someone probably ended up paying 3G for it off a
curb lot.
Any questions, fire away. Loved the car. Never let me down once. Great
mechanic helped alot. He unfortunately suffered some m. problems this
past year and could no longer continue the support like he did.
--
Dave Bour
Nortel
db...@REMOVEnortel.com
Sorry for the antispamming efforts, to reply
to me, remove the REMOVE from my email address.
Matt O'Toole
the_t...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<753gg1$78f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>> Working in Bay Area (US) requires travelling alot, at least
>> 100 miles a day. Expect 30,000 miles per yr. Thus, your
>> $20,000 brand new car only last LESSER than 10 yrs?! That's
>> terrible!
>
>Working in the DC area also requires traveling a lot. I put about 128
miles
>a day on my (new/old) 1986 Saab, the one that replaced the other 1986.
I drive a lot too (~20K/yr), so perhaps I'm not the best one to comment on
this, but I think this is ridiculous. It seems pretty unique to Americans,
too. If you don't live near work, why? Why are you 'required' to commute
so far? I know so many people who will commute for well over an hour each
way without even thinking. It's almost as if they like it. It's insane.
The time out of your life, and the expense, not to mention the stress and
the environmental/pollution/traffic issues, are outrageous. If and when I
get a job where I work in one place, I'll make my home as close as possible,
whatever the neighborhood is like.
Matt O.
Ron Vopicka
> sharp contours of the body panels and trim which leads to corrosion.
> Washing and waxing the car will help to fill in any pits in the paint,
> but will due nothing to stop the undercarriage and other structural
> components from corroding.
Especially if the carwash reuses and reuses the water they have washed
the salt off of other cars with. You can take your car to Joe's Saline
Carwash, and even if you otherwise keep the car garaged all winter you
can have the full benefit of getting salt water sprayed in every nook
and cranny.
Ron
tig
those you-wash carwashes and did exactly that. While washing the 4Runner
down I spied the sign proudly announcing the fact of recycled water and then
it hit me...unless they're doing some kind of reverse osmosis treatment (and
that would be ridiculous expensive) that's the ocean I'm spraying on, in,
and around the truck...
So, I grabbed a sample and when home here in San Diego I ran a general
chemistry. Surprise, high chlorides, BOD, COD and TDS... Not only was it
the ocean, but a dirty one at that! Good thing we stopped in Las Vegas to
pig out in the Casinos, we visited a car-wash in North Las Vegas and did I
do a major JOB on the truck.
The point is this: salting roads is gradually contaminating the surface and
subsurface waters in vast areas of the East coast...just why the hell is
this insanity continuing anyhow???
Ron Vopicka wrote in message <3675BC...@erols.com>...
tierod
>And lastly, for people who live where road salt is used, you are absolutely
>SENTENCED to doing something: WASH YOUR CAR. I get incredibly, incredibly
>fed up with people in Pennsylvania, Michigan and New York who whine about how
>badly their expensive cars are rusting, and then when asked, reveal that they
>wash the car mainly once a month if ever. My parents used to do that...
>their cars would rust out in three years and they thought it "wasteful" to
>wash them. They never did. I've known regular washing to STOP rust in its
>tracks, to curtail the spread even on a car with noticeable rust. The moment
>you stop washing it, the corrosion resumes. It's no wonder there are no 1980
>Saabs, Volvos, BMWs and certainly no Fiats in Rochester, New York... unless
>they were washed or not driven from November to April.
The problem is that the salt and water get trapped in between the
jame...@my-dejanews.com
"tig" <will...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> While washing the 4Runner
> down I spied the sign proudly announcing the fact of recycled water and then
> it hit me...unless they're doing some kind of reverse osmosis treatment (and
> that would be ridiculous expensive) that's the ocean I'm spraying on, in,
> and around the truck...
Alternatively, they could burn fossile fuel to produce distilled water :-)
That would be really environmentally friendly, huh?
It is indeed ridiculous how far some business will go to please the green,
like defeating the purpose of the business, etc..
Jim
Andrew M. Radin
>the_t...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <753gg1$78f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>> Working in Bay Area (US) requires travelling alot, at least
>>> 100 miles a day.
>>Working in the DC area also requires traveling a lot.
>I think this is ridiculous. It seems pretty unique to Americans,
>too. If you don't live near work, why? Why are you 'required' to commute
>so far? I know so many people who will commute for well over an hour each
>way without even thinking. It's almost as if they like it. It's insane.
>The time out of your life, and the expense, not to mention the stress and
>the environmental/pollution/traffic issues, are outrageous. If and when I
>get a job where I work in one place, I'll make my home as close as possible,
>whatever the neighborhood is like.
It's all an equation. For instance, in the Bay Area, living near work can be
much more expensive than living farther away (duh). If you'd derive more
enjoyment from the extra money than the extra time you'd have, no reason not
to. Or the fact that you might be able to afford a house instead of a condo
or apartment, which is not unreasonable. I know people who commute from
Modesto to San Jose (3 hours each day), who have mansions with dozens of acres
of land, for the same cost as a small city house.
Perhaps the American angle has to do with the fact that most European cities
were built well before the advent of cars, while most major American cities
have extensive, well-integrated, and fast freeways - comparatively. (We'll
ignore WWII terror bombing and rebuilt cities for the moment.) Makes
commuting less of an outrageous thing. Yes, there's lots of traffic in the
Bay Area, but consider Rome.
The funny thing is - I agree with a lot of the above issues. The real problem
is that you all need to stop having kids.
have fun flaming.
andy r.
Alan Davies
into work. We didn't get bombed during WWII so our streets are small and
congested - to record levels this year as about 80k new cars in Dublin alone
are coming in each year.
It takes me 20 minutes to cycle into work, but it's uncomfortable and
miserable (it rains ALL the time). It takes me 30-45mins to drive into work
just before the rush hour trafic and 45-1 hour to get back in the evening.
It takes 45 mins up to about 2.5 hours to get a bus to work, even when it;s
not busy. Early morning (5:30am) I can drive in in about 15 mins (LOTS of
traffic lights). On my motorbike I could get in in under 10 mins with light
traffic, 30mins max in any traffic.
If I were to live closer (which with 6 miles, isn't really a great deal
physically closer), I would have a smaller apartment, nowhere safe to park
the car, much higher crime rate and be stuck in traffic every time I wanted
to get our of the city. You just can't win in this kind of situation ....
Al
Ron Vopicka
>
> In article <754ol5$33o$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "tig" <will...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> > While washing the 4Runner
> > down I spied the sign proudly announcing the fact of recycled water and
> > then it hit me...unless they're doing some kind of reverse osmosis
> > treatment (and that would be ridiculous expensive) that's the ocean I'm
> > spraying on, in, and around the truck...
>
> Alternatively, they could burn fossile fuel to produce distilled water :-)
> That would be really environmentally friendly, huh?
> It is indeed ridiculous how far some business will go to please the green,
> like defeating the purpose of the business, etc..
>
> Jim
>
many laws:
"For anything to get clean, something else must get dirty."
Ron
ah pook
a total lemon!
89 Camry wagon (cheaper 4 cyl model, don't know what the engine model
is). 86k miles, driven gently by my wife until she got a 97 V70 GLT,
which she is *much* happier with. Now I have it, though I'm shopping
for a C70 for early next year.
Engine knocks horribly on anything but premium gas. Big puffs of blue
smoke when you start it from cold (though it passes smog tests when
warm just fine), attributed to carbon buildup on the valve stems.
Replaced the muffler twice when it holed, once at 7k miles (!) and
again at 80k. The manual transmission is going out now; 3rd gear
synchronizer is dying, and it starts clashing after driving for 20
minutes.
Other problems not related to early failure are awful seat adjustments
that are ergo nightmares, incredibly crappy stereo (much worse than
the stock stereo on my 86 Accord), poor body trim quality...
Very unhappy with this car. Never again!
-=ah pook=-
Ron Vopicka <cvop...@erols.com> wrote:
>> I have an 86 Camry that just turned 280,000 miles today. It has the 4
>> cylinder 2SE engine with an automatic transmission. I have owned it since
>> new and have never had to replace anything in the engine or transmission.
>> Compression is still within specifications and I still get 40 mpg freeway.
>> I have two other 86 Camrys with 180,000 and 200,000 on them that are still
>> running. I put on 100 miles a day and change the oil and filter every 5,000
>> miles. The weak spots on the 86 Camrys are the mufflers (replaced every 2
>> years so get one with a lifetime guarantee) and front lower control arms
>> (replaced both sides once in all three Camrys because of bushing cracks).
>> Timing belts must be changed as scheduled (every 60 k) and alternators need
>> to be replaced at about 200,000 miles due to brush failure.
>
>I have an 86 Camry that just turned 273,000 miles. It has the 4
>cylinder 2SE engine with an manual transmission. I have owned it since
>new and have never had to replace anything in the engine or
>transmission.
<snip>
Eyvind Spangen
wrote:
>Well, maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I've got a Camry that's
>a total lemon!
>
>89 Camry wagon (cheaper 4 cyl model, don't know what the engine model
>is). 86k miles, driven gently by my wife until she got a 97 V70 GLT,
>which she is *much* happier with. Now I have it, though I'm shopping
>for a C70 for early next year.
Probably a 3S-FE engine. I've got a '90 Camry with that, and it's a
lot _better_ than most comparable engines from that time.
>Engine knocks horribly on anything but premium gas. Big puffs of blue
>smoke when you start it from cold (though it passes smog tests when
>warm just fine), attributed to carbon buildup on the valve stems.
Extreme carbon buildup in the cylinders cause the knocking (due to
higher compression). Blue smoke from leaking valve stem seals. Carbon
buildup probably from the engine running rich, or extremely gentle
driving.
>Replaced the muffler twice when it holed, once at 7k miles (!) and
>again at 80k. The manual transmission is going out now; 3rd gear
>synchronizer is dying, and it starts clashing after driving for 20
>minutes.
Muffler at 7k miles sounds strange.. Must have been physical damage or
manufacturing error. 3rd gear synchro often dies when car is driven
hard, like floored pedal in 2nd to redline and changing to 3rd in a
1/10 second. Maybe the driver didn't depress the clutch fully when
changing?
>Other problems not related to early failure are awful seat adjustments
>that are ergo nightmares, incredibly crappy stereo (much worse than
>the stock stereo on my 86 Accord), poor body trim quality...
Seat adjustments are crap. Seat cover worn out at 90K miles. Crappy
stereo, but ok to listen to the news on the radio. I've never had a
problem with the body trim on my car.
>Very unhappy with this car. Never again!
It sounds like a mix of lemon car, lacking maintenance and driver not
used to manual transmissions.
ES
Mr. Ed
ah pook wrote in message <3678a2f8...@news.slip.net>...
>Well, maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I've got a Camry that's
>a total lemon!
>
>89 Camry wagon (cheaper 4 cyl model, don't know what the engine model
>is). 86k miles, driven gently by my wife until she got a 97 V70 GLT,
>which she is *much* happier with. Now I have it, though I'm shopping
>for a C70 for early next year.
>
You don`t say how it was maintained , before and after you acquired it.No
car will live long without proper maintenance, just like people.
Ed.Ontario.Canada
Ron Vopicka
Lemons are not brand specific, and this one with the muffler problem
would seem to have (have had) a serious engine combustion/tuning
problem.
Other than the problems, this car sounds a lot like my wifes 1991 Camry
wagon (currently with 107k). Nothing has been done to the car... and I
don't know why. She drives like a demon (thank deity it was a 4
cylinder we bought and not the 6... she would surely have wrapped it
around something solid by now).
She goes thru brakes about 3x as fast as I do (ride with her and you
will know why) and tires 30-40% faster. We got her one of those 10
alignments for $100 deals (the tire dealers figure no one will use more
than 2), and she goes back religiously every 7500 miles. She has had
tires replaced twice with 40% rebates on the new ones because they
didn't make it to the 60k miles that they guaranteed. I think they are
sorry they ever did this deal with us. BTW, she has always been this
way on tires and brakes, on numerous other cars.
Timing belt replaced once (as scheduled maintenance). The Toyota dealer
tried to tell her bolts had fallen out of the transmission, engine oil
pan, and suspension (bull****) and a LOT of extra work would be needed
if she was going to have a "safe" vehicle. She blasted them... and has
never been back (btw, nothing had fallen out, nothing was replaced...
you can't trust some dealer service departments)
That was the ONLY trip to a dealer/servicer. Original muffler still on
the car (it is probably afraid to fail on her). Uses no oil between
changes. Oh, just so you don't think I change the oil on this one every
10,000 miles, too, fear not. Oil is changed about every 7-7.5k miles.
I AM consistent, however, as it too is changed twice a year mid-spring
and just before winter sets in. Aside from believing in 2x a year
changes, her short-trip driving pattern rates changes more frequently
than 10,000 miles.
Oh, I headlight bulb and the wiper blades have been replaced (once).
YMMV.
Ron
Per Amneus
cars with more than 300,000 km on the meter. Found: (excluding trucks,
vans and delivery cars):
6 Audi
2 BMW
3 Citroen
5 Ford
2 Mazda
22 Mercedes
3 Mitsubishi
3 Opel
1 Peugeot
8 SAAB
2 Subaru
2 Toyota
3 VW
53 Volvo
Cars with more than 400,000 km:
1 Citroen
4 Mercedes
1 Toyota
7 Volvo
The enormous amount of Volvos on the list might be depending on that
Volvo is the absolutely most common car in Sweden (where I made this
search).
To my knowledge, a diesel-Mercedes is the most long-lasting car, then
Volvo. Citroen CX-XM, SAAB, VW Golf and Passat are usually pretty good,
as well as some Mitsubishi and Toyota.
/ Per
JOHN SHENG wrote:
> Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> Where to get the new engine parts?
>
> Working in Bay Area (US) requires travelling alot, at least
> 100 miles a day. Expect 30,000 miles per yr. Thus, your
> $20,000 brand new car only last LESSER than 10 yrs?! That's
> terrible!
>
> Want to know which brand car last most? And how to accomplish
> that. No bias, must real data.
>
Ron Vopicka
in twice <g> at going on 300,000 MILES.
Very interesting statistics, at any rate.
Ron
Mr. Ed
>> You don`t say how it was maintained , before and after you acquired it.No
>> car will live long without proper maintenance, just like people.
>
>Lemons are not brand specific, and this one with the muffler problem
>would seem to have (have had) a serious engine combustion/tuning
>problem.
sounds like you got a GOOD one.Although I must say it is unusual for A
Camry.I have a Honda Accord ~86
It has needed maintenance on a steady basis but I have never touched the
engine, tranny and front end , oh, one tie rod end .It now has 200,000 miles
on it, and I do change the oil every 2500.3000 miles because my driving is
classified severe service.It still cruises at 100mph + where legal
(Montana)and normal cruising speed up here in Canada is 80 100mph(not legal)
on the 400 series highways. anybody says any different is full of it as I
travel these roads almost everyday.
Ed.Ontario.Canada
RLS
database (a rough per capita estimate) will prove that Volvo wins even
here. My wife sells Hondas and Acuras. We both drive Volvos. One a 240 with
247,000 miles and the other a 760 Turbo with 168,500 miles. NEVER an engine
related problem nor any problems beyond routine, and sometimes overdue,
maintenance.
Per Amneus <p...@moose.forbrf.lth.se> wrote in article
<367AA60E...@moose.forbrf.lth.se>...
Cobra2442
>or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
>engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
>much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
>Where to get the new engine parts?
>
1968 Ford Galaxy 500 station wagon with a 390 and FMX transmission. 312K miles,
never into the engine or tranny. The carb was rebuilt once about 200000 miles
ago, vinyl seats are not cracked, dash has a small crack on it, and windshield
has been cracked longer than I can remember.
Rexford Dundon
1997 Green Cobra Coupe #2442
<a href="http://members.aol.com/cobra2442/auto/index.htm">My Cobra Page
Yossarian
JOHN SHENG <inj@taurus> wrote in message news:74tjqv$j...@news.csus.edu...
>
> Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
>or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
>engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
>much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
>Where to get the new engine parts?
know of (I'll have to check with the previous owner, my grandfather), but
the A/C is shot, got a new transmission at 160k miles, and the heater's not
working (temp. control is stuck or something - easy fix supposedly, but I
haven't had the time to take it to my mechanic). About time for a brake job,
too. Problem - not much fun to drive.
Tino
that hit 412,000 !!!! before we had it towed away. No one will believe this but
it was stock motor with no rebuild, stock auto tranny even. Heater and brakes
and gas tank and things like that replace but motor and tranny original. The
carb had to be rebuilt again as well.
It was really not a well maintained car. The oil was changed every 10000 miles
or so. It ran rough but never died. The reason it was towed was that one very
cold winter morning, someone got in the car and did not want to wait until the
motor was warm (it used to stall if you just put it in drive). They reved the
motor and put it in gear. As soon as it went it gear, it broke the rear end (it
probably had no oil) and of course the car was not really worth fixing anymore.
Just had it towed away but the engine and tranny never died.
Paul Grimshaw
big, lazy, low compression V-8 than with smaller, higher revving engines
that produce as much power with 2 litres of displacement that the Chevy
305 does with almost 5 litres. Add to that the fact that main bearing
diameters of most engines is being reduced in a quest for shorter, more
compact engines and there is a compelling case for maintaining good lubrication.
Oil is one of the cheapest forms of life insurance for an engine.
Engines may not explode in a shower of sparks these days, but observe
how many on these usenets complain of poor power, pinging or emissions
system failure. Each of these people will spend money and time
correcting a problem that could have been avoided.
Paul Grimshaw
******************************************************
As Reviewed in EuropeanCar Magazine! "The Volvo
Performance Handbook" is the Latest in Literature
for your Swedish car! Check out this and other
publications at:
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Volvo_Books/
******************************************************
tem...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> If this aint a post that supports the 10,000 mile plus engine oil
> changes, I dont know what is. All you 2500 mile change interval guys
> are a bot over the edge. How many cars do you know if that die of
> blown engines these days anyways??
--
tem...@hotmail.com
fred...@aol.com
Points taken, but what does oil changing have to do with
pinging/pre-detonation? Thats _usually_ a timing issue, or a buildup
of carbon on the valves. Neither have anything to do with oil. And I
will be the first to admit, I dont have facts/stats in front of me,
but Im willing to bet that most emmissions failures of cars have
NOTHING to do with lack of oil changes. And to be honest with you,
some of the highest mileage cars on the road are small, hardworking 4
cylinder cars, Hondas and Toyotas NOT big engined American cars.
Paul Grimshaw <Paul_G...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>There's a bit difference between the lubrication requirements with a
>big, lazy, low compression V-8 than with smaller, higher revving engines
>that produce as much power with 2 litres of displacement that the Chevy
>305 does with almost 5 litres. Add to that the fact that main bearing
>diameters of most engines is being reduced in a quest for shorter, more
>compact engines and there is a compelling case for maintaining good lubrication.
>
>Oil is one of the cheapest forms of life insurance for an engine.
>Engines may not explode in a shower of sparks these days, but observe
>how many on these usenets complain of poor power, pinging or emissions
>system failure. Each of these people will spend money and time
>correcting a problem that could have been avoided.
>
>Paul Grimshaw
>
>
>******************************************************
>As Reviewed in EuropeanCar Magazine! "The Volvo
>Performance Handbook" is the Latest in Literature
>for your Swedish car! Check out this and other
>publications at:
>http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Volvo_Books/
>******************************************************
>
>tem...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>--
EVO
Hes driven it from ontario to Florida TWICE, with no trouble at all. this
car is immortal. He drives it like a maniac.
Gareth
98 Civic Si
Yossarian wrote in message <76rb9a$715$1...@usenet43.supernews.com>...
Brett Anderson
>pinging/pre-detonation? Thats _usually_ a timing issue, or a buildup
>of carbon on the valves. Neither have anything to do with oil. And I
>will be the first to admit, I dont have facts/stats in front of me,
>but Im willing to bet that most emmissions failures of cars have
>NOTHING to do with lack of oil changes.
Not true, a lack of oil changes can cause build up around the rings.
Eventually the rings become seized into the grooves and you suffer from blow
by. Blow by effectively blows out the spark, causing poor fuel burn and
higher tail pipe emissions.
As for the longevity of small engines vs large, I think you'll find that it
is better related as Other vs American.
American engines, up until the late 80's at least, are very poorly designed
junk, not designed to do more than 100K miles, and a surprise when they do
do more.
European and Asian engines, however, are generally much better designed,
including lubrication systems, and so last longer.
FWIW, most 5 litre GM V8's use 5 qts of oil. A BMW V8 uses 8 qts. The
added oil volume increases it's cooling and cleaning abiliity. There should
be no reason for an Alusil BMW V8 to not run in excess of 300k miles.
Brett Anderson
BMW and ASE master technician
http://frontpage.bestweb.net/~bretta
Visit my web site to reply via email
>>> >> JOHN SHENG <inj@taurus> wrote in message
news:74tjqv$j...@news.csus.edu...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
>>> >> >or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
>>> >> >engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
>>> >> >much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
>>> >> >Where to get the new engine parts?
>>> >> I've got an '87 Ford F-150 closing in on 200k miles. No engine work,
that I
>>> >> know of (I'll have to check with the previous owner, my grandfather),
but
>>> >> the A/C is shot, got a new transmission at 160k miles, and the
heater's not
>>> >> working (temp. control is stuck or something - easy fix supposedly,
but I
>>> >> haven't had the time to take it to my mechanic). About time for a
brake job,
>>> >> too. Problem - not much fun to drive.
>>> >
>>
>>--
>
Paul Grimshaw
the primary cause of piston ring and cylinder bore damage. Why?
Because piston ring friction accounts for the largest frictional loss in
today's power plants.
Piston ring and cylinder bore damage leads to poor combustion chamber
sealing which allows oil and blow-by gases to enter the combustion
chamber. Blow-by gases effectively lean the A/F ratio -- leading to
pre-ignition. Oil entering the combustion chamber, on the other hand,
leads to carbon build-up -- raising the effective compression ratio (the
higher the compression ratio, the higher the incidence of pre-ignition
in automotive fuels).
Blow-by raises HC and CO levels sky-high. Pre-ignition elevates NOx
emissions. Both can damage three-way catalytic converters which must
operate within a very narrow A/F ratio (generally between 14:1 and 15:1).
Perhaps the reason why many of the older cars on the road are those
powered by smaller engines is because they are of a better, more modern
design than many NA V-8s which are direct decendants of the same
push-rod engines our fathers (and even grandfathers) drove. Not a
criticism, great if they work for this market, but an observation on
engine design and technology.
Paul Grimshaw
fred...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Paul:
> Points taken, but what does oil changing have to do with
> pinging/pre-detonation? Thats _usually_ a timing issue, or a buildup
> of carbon on the valves. Neither have anything to do with oil. And I
> will be the first to admit, I dont have facts/stats in front of me,
> but Im willing to bet that most emmissions failures of cars have
> NOTHING to do with lack of oil changes. And to be honest with you,
> some of the highest mileage cars on the road are small, hardworking 4
> cylinder cars, Hondas and Toyotas NOT big engined American cars.
>
--
Paul Grimshaw
Excellent point wrt oil volume in today's engines. I have noticed that
some manufacturers have very large sumps (especially Porsche with dry
sump recovery tanks and BMW with their well-engineered power plants),
whereas others are exccedingly small. On a displacement basis, the
European cars tend to have larger sumps, thereby placing less thermal
and chemical stress on each molecule of oil.
Then there's oil temp..... another reason why every one of my cars
(regardless of type) will always be fitted with a
thermostatically-controlled engine oil cooler. No, I don't tow things ;-)
Again, many thanks for excellent points from a BMW Master Tech.
Paul Grimshaw
Brett Anderson wrote:
>
> \> Points taken, but what does oil changing have to do with
> >pinging/pre-detonation? Thats _usually_ a timing issue, or a buildup
> >of carbon on the valves. Neither have anything to do with oil. And I
> >will be the first to admit, I dont have facts/stats in front of me,
> >but Im willing to bet that most emmissions failures of cars have
> >NOTHING to do with lack of oil changes.
>
> Not true, a lack of oil changes can cause build up around the rings.
> Eventually the rings become seized into the grooves and you suffer from blow
> by. Blow by effectively blows out the spark, causing poor fuel burn and
> higher tail pipe emissions.
>
> As for the longevity of small engines vs large, I think you'll find that it
> is better related as Other vs American.
>
> American engines, up until the late 80's at least, are very poorly designed
> junk, not designed to do more than 100K miles, and a surprise when they do
> do more.
> European and Asian engines, however, are generally much better designed,
> including lubrication systems, and so last longer.
>
> FWIW, most 5 litre GM V8's use 5 qts of oil. A BMW V8 uses 8 qts. The
> added oil volume increases it's cooling and cleaning abiliity. There should
> be no reason for an Alusil BMW V8 to not run in excess of 300k miles.
>
> Brett Anderson
> BMW and ASE master technician
> http://frontpage.bestweb.net/~bretta
>
> Visit my web site to reply via email
>
> >
> >
Ron Vopicka
> Eventually the rings become seized into the grooves and you suffer from blow
> by. Blow by effectively blows out the spark, causing poor fuel burn and
> higher tail pipe emissions.
>
"wasted" oil in my view is the excessive changing of oil during the
first 100-200k miles. As I have mentioned before, I am a 10k mile
change freak (or twice a year, whichever comes first). At 270k miles on
one engine now, I am changing the oil every 7500 (but since my car usage
has decreased with retirement, it is still twice a year).
The first oil change is quite important, especially if the mfg isn't
particularly careful about cleaning casting material, metal shavings,
and abrasive grit from their new parts before assembly. After that a
well-designed, good, tight engine should suffer almost no additional
damage with more extended periods between oil changes.
As the engine starts to wear (a natural process, even if you change your
oil every 1k miles), the change interval time should be decreased in
order to get rid of increased amounts of foreign particles from blow-by
etc. (None of these comments apply in EXTREME service conditions).
>
> FWIW, most 5 litre GM V8's use 5 qts of oil. A BMW V8 uses 8 qts. The
> added oil volume increases it's cooling and cleaning abiliity. There should
> be no reason for an Alusil BMW V8 to not run in excess of 300k miles.
And a (for instance) 270k mile 1986 Camry uses 4 quarts.
Under most conditions the added oil volume is a detriment. Unless you
are driving a minimum of 30 miles at a stretch, never in subfreezing
weather... your oil will never warm up fully enough to boil off the
water that gets into it from the combustion process. The oil is diluted
by both gas and water vapor. If the oil does not get up to temperature
and STAY there for a while, these contaminants stay in the sump... and
get circulated all over the internals of the engine.
A case in point. 1967 Porsche that took 9 qts of oil as I recall.
Driven in Florida (so subfreezing hardly ever applied) and driven a
minimum of 10-15 miles on each trip... After driving that way for
several months, I would take a 1500 mile trip to NJ, and in the first
400 miles of driving the oil level would go down 1 to 1.5 quarts. After
that it would return to its usual 1200 mile per quart consumption. I
don't think that was all oil that "burned" in the first 400 miles.
Now is 6, 8, 9 quarts good if you are driving LeMans... absolutely. You
get the oil good and hot, it stays up at a temperature for good
lubrication and higher engine power output and there is lots of room for
the additional contaminants that come from extended high specific
outputs over long periods of time.
But for a typical ownen/driver, no.
Ron
Chris M. O'Rourke
job at 140K not because the valves were burnt, but because it needed new
valve-stem seals. I do perform a rigorous maintenance schedule including a
steady diet of Mobil 1 oil every 10K miles.
Chris
Yossarian <yo...@tabrasa.hypermart.net> wrote in message
76rb9a$715$1...@usenet43.supernews.com...
Jon P. Inghram
>job at 140K not because the valves were burnt, but because it needed new
>valve-stem seals. I do perform a rigorous maintenance schedule including a
>steady diet of Mobil 1 oil every 10K miles.
My mom's got a '94 S-10 with over 350,000 miles on the original engine.
We've only used Castrol Syntec 5w-50 in it, and the engine is still
mechanically good. True, everything else in the truck is wearing out, but
the ENGINE is still running great with NO work done to it at all.
Eyvind Spangen
wrote:
>my friend has a 92 Civic Si, and the friggin thing has 496,000kms on it.
>Hes driven it from ontario to Florida TWICE, with no trouble at all. this
>car is immortal. He drives it like a maniac.
A Toyota magazine wrote about a 1987 4-cyl Camry used as a taxi in
northern Norway (almost arctic climate), and it had about 750000 kms
or 496000 miles on it. No engine work ever done..
My uncle had a '90 Chevy Suburban 6.2 diesel 4WD. He changed engine
oil every 3000 km (1875 miles), took it to dealer every 6000 miles and
never abused the car. Even with that maintenance level, the
transmission broke down 3 times in 166000 km (104K miles) and the
engine was replaced once. The interior in the car rattled like crazy
and the paint peeled off, even with wax/polish 2 times each year..
That car was the worst piece of shit I've ever seen.. And many
'90 Suburban diesel 4WD suffered tranmission/engine problems, and the
paint peeled off on all the cars..
ES
John Burns
> northern Norway (almost arctic climate), and it had about 750000 kms
> or 496000 miles on it. No engine work ever done..
Norwegians tend to look after old cars as new ones have HUGE tax
(100%?). Going to Norway is like going back 15 years in time, lots of
nice old E21s, E28s and E23s :-)
--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: jo...@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Aberdeen, Bonny
Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Chuck Fiedler
<SNIP>
> Want to know which brand car last most? And how to accomplish
>that. No bias, must real data.
<SNIP>
>P.S.: No time to correct typoes...
That's OK. I, therefore won't waste MY time responding.
Chuck
Hu
> How to accomplish an engine lasting 300k miles...?
1985 Toyota 1 ton 22 RE 2WD PU, 331,000 regular (3-5K) oil (Castrol 20-50)
with a Toyota Oil Filter, Timing belt done at 212,000. (mine)
1992 Toyota 4WD 22 RE, 176,000 no work (mine)
1986 Toyota Camry 190,000 timing belt at 140,000 (mother's)
1986 Toyota 4WD Forerunner 250,000, (sister's)
1986 Toyota 4WD 22 RE, 220,000, (brother's)
1984 Toyota 4WD 22 R 227,000 (other brother's)
1983 Toyota 4WD Tercel 235,000 (girlfriend's)
1988 Toyota 4WD Forerunner 171,000 (other girlfriend's)
I like em
Hu
>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> > >> >> >or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> > >> >> >engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> > >> >> >much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> > >> >> >Where to get the new engine parts?
>
--
To respond remove the numbers H...@421248THISisIT.com
crazyj...@hotmail.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> >> >> >or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> >> >> >engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> >> >> >much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> >> >> >Where to get the new engine parts?
I can tell you of cases of engine DEATH! - that should shed
some light on the subject.
roomate had a honda civic engine death due to the timing belt failure.
LESSON - replace timing belts ON time. (the valves dropped down into
the cylinders -> and the cylinders kept going! :-(
another roomate had a honda civic which he rebuilt the engine 2x
before he sold it ... THINK it was a bad block which couldn't be
properly fixed.
relative - vw bus engine - rock hit the oil pan (or similar) and
engine lost oil while on trip - unfortunately it had electrical trouble
also so they did not notice trouble until too late.
LESSON - get a OIL PRESSURE gauge (not an idiot light)
ford ltd (72) engine freezed - due to 'blown' head gasket.
idiot light went off after it was TOO late. (v8 low 100k miles)
LESSON - get a ENGINE TEMP gauge.
rebuilt the ltd eng upper 1/2 (valves-heads) - head gasket
blown AGAIN! oil and h20 mixes -> steam comes out of
exhaust -> head cracks :( (after less than 20-30k miles)
appears that one should retorque the heads after a rebuilt
after X miles - mechanic failed to mention.
(I no longer believe in rebuilding engines - or fords)
coworker lost a chevy engine due to a bolt falling off the
bottom of a rebuilt carb and getting sucked into the
cylinder :-(
lesson - Becareful - luckily most good designs avoid
such potential troubles.
relative - lost bmv engine when h2o pump busted...
hmm - whats this h2o doing here?
lesson - if you notice a leak STOP driving until you are certain
of what it is.
some side notes: (lesson - don't trust mechanics - let them EARN it.)
one mechanic broke the distributor and refused to acknowledge it.
(on the crack you could see the point where a screw driver had been
used in an attempt to pry off the distibutor cap.)
real pain
another mechanic left a washer in the wrong place under the airfilter
and on the carb/intake manifold - took it back - they failed to fix it.
(it'll cost you more $$$ - argh)
I fixed it instead. (car idled high because the washer jammed into the
throttle control)
Sears - ripped off relative by selling them shocks they did not need.
(CA, usa sued sears for this - unfortunately, the dates covered
didn't include the date when they got work done on this car :(
sears ALSO sold the car a 'life time' alignment deal - and
aligned the front end - only to tell 3-6 months later (on a
car which averaged 15k a year city/hwy) that they COULD NOT
align the front end as the complete front end suspension NEEDED
to be replaced!! gez - you'd think they would have mentioned
that the first time they aligned it!
Summary of lessons
1) maintain. (change fluids, replace parts as recommended - esp
timing chains/belts)
2) get gauges - and watch them - so that you can stop before its
too late.
3) LUCK - hopefully you'll get an engine NOT made on friday before
a holiday!
4) always get a cheap used car for beginners so that the mistakes
they make while learning about cars DON't cast TOO much %^)
5) just because someone is a mechanic - it doesn't mean they are
honest. often you can do better work - even if you're learning,
BECAUSE you care about your car!
6) Never trust sears! (at least the automotive dept)
(did you know that the quality on crapsman tools are worse now?
turns out that sears figured when you come into replace a busted
tool, you're highly likely to spend even MORE $$ at sears!)
7) Get a good reliable mechanic.
8) Learn to do AS much as possible yourself - so that
you'll at least UNDERstand whats happening with your car
when someone is working on it. (or claims to).
9) rebuild an engine? I don't think its worth it. YMMV tho -
I hope someone can show it to be worth while. I don't believe
it to be.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tino
tech, they were full cast iron engines that would take lots of abuse and refuse
to die. I really dont know anyone that has blown one up. The only time I have
seen anything brake or fail on these dinasours is when there is 0 oil in the
pan.
As far as the requirement for oil capacity, the reason these old motors only
hold 5 liters is because they dont run hot at all. They probably made something
like 150hp and 270lbs of torque and would not spin past 4000 rpm. They had a big
radiator..what would get hot?
I've done oil changes on my mustang almost immediatly after shutting it off
(supposedly this is the best time since stuff is still floating around) and have
had the hot oil drip onto my finger when I take the drain plug off, but it
doesnt really feel any hotter than hot tap water. Granted I was not racing
around but these big engines just dont run hot. Once fixed up and spinning to
6500rpm+ then I would recommend any person with a V-8 car that has a 5 quart pan
to go up to at least a 7quart.
Brett Anderson wrote:
> \> Points taken, but what does oil changing have to do with
> >pinging/pre-detonation? Thats _usually_ a timing issue, or a buildup
> >of carbon on the valves. Neither have anything to do with oil. And I
> >will be the first to admit, I dont have facts/stats in front of me,
> >but Im willing to bet that most emmissions failures of cars have
> >NOTHING to do with lack of oil changes.
>
> Not true, a lack of oil changes can cause build up around the rings.
> Eventually the rings become seized into the grooves and you suffer from blow
> by. Blow by effectively blows out the spark, causing poor fuel burn and
> higher tail pipe emissions.
>
> As for the longevity of small engines vs large, I think you'll find that it
> is better related as Other vs American.
>
> American engines, up until the late 80's at least, are very poorly designed
> junk, not designed to do more than 100K miles, and a surprise when they do
> do more.
> European and Asian engines, however, are generally much better designed,
> including lubrication systems, and so last longer.
>
> FWIW, most 5 litre GM V8's use 5 qts of oil. A BMW V8 uses 8 qts. The
> added oil volume increases it's cooling and cleaning abiliity. There should
> be no reason for an Alusil BMW V8 to not run in excess of 300k miles.
>
> >>> >> JOHN SHENG <inj@taurus> wrote in message
> news:74tjqv$j...@news.csus.edu...
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> >>> >> >or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> >>> >> >engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> >>> >> >much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> >>> >> >Where to get the new engine parts?
> >>> >> I've got an '87 Ford F-150 closing in on 200k miles. No engine work,
> that I
> >>> >> know of (I'll have to check with the previous owner, my grandfather),
> but
> >>> >> the A/C is shot, got a new transmission at 160k miles, and the
> heater's not
> >>> >> working (temp. control is stuck or something - easy fix supposedly,
> but I
> >>> >> haven't had the time to take it to my mechanic). About time for a
> brake job,
> >>> >> too. Problem - not much fun to drive.
> >>> >
> >>
> >>--
> >
David Everson
<3682411b...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>...
>You said "300,000km;" that's 187,500 miles, right? I've got 270,000
>miles+ so far on a 1984 240 I purchased recently. Outside of a valve
>adjust and leaky transmission seal, this may be the best-running used
>car I've EVER purchased.
>
No, he said 300k (as in 300,000) MILE engines so yours doesn't count yet.
But it'll probably make it, Volvos are noted for taking big miles
--
from Dave :-) <da...@SPAM-ME-NOTbootsorion.demon.co.uk>
Make obvious correction to reply
He who dies with the most toys... wins!
Sco...@hdc.net
>
> JOHN SHENG <inj@taurus> wrote in message news:74tjqv$j...@news.csus.edu...
> >
> > Any 300,000 miles engine around with slightly minor engine work
> >or no engine work? Tell us how you accomplish that. Name the
> >engine work(s) had been done and mileage. In general, how
> >much an engine overhaul/rebuilt costs? For which brand car?
> >Where to get the new engine parts?
A good friend has a 1985 Honda Prelude with 318,000 miles on it. Her father
owned it since new(she aquired it at 190,000 miles). It has had absolutely
no engine or transmission work done, had one alternator replaced, cv boots
replaced 2 times, 3 timing belt replacements(90,000 miles each), original
water pump, no carb work(yes it has side draft carbs)and many brake jobs and
tires of course-but still on finally worn out original struts. She finally
semi-retired it(winter use only) because she bought a newer used Prelude.
The oil level still does NOT go down between 3,000 mile changes(non-synthetic
since new btw). The exterior/interior is looking pretty rough(she doesn't
care to polish etc).
J. Dally
For the Love of God, please stop the crossposting on this stupid topic!
Thank you,
Jesus
Rob Gastrich
3,000 and I put slick 50 in every year or so. Other then that, I have done
no maintenance to the engine. I have an 89 corolla and I am sold on them.
I have averaged 25k/year on it until this year. Good Luck, Rob
Jay
clutch. Yes, I do change the oil regularly and (have used Slick 50 :someone
posted that Slick 50 will cause oil leaks) add STP.
Rob Gastrich wrote in message <773la3$osi$1...@remarQ.com>...
Ken Washington
Slick 50 is one product I cannot recommend from personal experience. I
had an 83 900T 5 spd with 195,234 miles in Oct. 93. I wanted to extend
the life of the engine, so I had the Slick 50 added with an oil and
filter change. In just under 2000 miles I was looking for a replacement
engine. I had this problem with oil and coolant mixing in the coolant
resevoir. So a $17 bottle of Slick 50 cost me about $2200. The
replacement engine cost me $850, it was another $861 for the
installation and the rental car was $535. You have have been lucky. Do I
use anything now? Yes. I was a skeptic at first, but in January 94 I
began using Militec-1. I have used it in all three Saabs and my wife's
1990 Chevy Blzr 4WD. I can tell this. Militec-1 works. No I am not a
sales person. I buy mine at the Base Exchange Auto Parts Store. If you
want more info, check out www.apdinc.com. That site has the best info,
but www.bwv.com has the best price on the 16 oz. bottle.
Ken Washington
87 9000S
87 900S
83 900T
Cameron H. Walker
that this product would cause the mixing of oil with your anti-freeze.
That type of problem is generally caused by the failure of a gasket that
seals both coolant and oil channels, or a crack in the metal between the
two channels. i.e.:head gaskets or cylinder walls.
There is some evidence of PTFE additives causing a blockage of
narrow oil passages because of its adherance characteristics, and it is
this that we should be concerned with, along with the price of the
product. Synthetic oil is still the best scientifically proven guarantee
against engine wear.
Cameron Walker
TheCritic
> Although I too do not trust in Slick 50, it is highly unlikely
>that this product would cause the mixing of oil with your anti-freeze.
>That type of problem is generally caused by the failure of a gasket that
>seals both coolant and oil channels, or a crack in the metal between the
>two channels. i.e.:head gaskets or cylinder walls.
> There is some evidence of PTFE additives causing a blockage of
>narrow oil passages because of its adherance characteristics, and it is
>this that we should be concerned with, along with the price of the
>product. Synthetic oil is still the best scientifically proven guarantee
>against engine wear.
Teflon is NOT a product that should be used in engines - DuPont (maker of
Teflon) even warns against it - that's why it doesn't say "teflon" anywhere
on that little bottle of 50-weight oil you're holding (it says
polytetrafloeraethylene -the chemical name for Teflon, hence PTFE) - it's
trademarked, and DuPont won't let them use it.
It's a SOLID - and, if nothing else, will clog the oil filter prematurely.
Can I ask you people (who use oil additives) one question?
Yes?
Why?!
What's wrong with conventional oils that you think a bottle of "mystery
fluid" will make them so much better? It's NOT an excuse to delay oil
changes, despite what the manufacturer says. Oil serves a couple of purposes
in an engine - everyone knows it lubricates things, but it also serves to
keep the engine clean (to some extent) - over time, the detergent qualities
of the oil deteriorate, and it can no longer effectively do its job. Oil
also collects contaminants which occur during normal engine operation - and
these contaminants must be flushed out either by changing the oil, or by
filtering it to a VERY FINE level.
All the car manufacturers I know of explicitly warn against oil additives,
some even void warranties.
If you knew what Slick 50 actually does to your engine, you would NEVER use
it.
If you're concerned about engine life (which shouldn't be a very hard thing
to accomplish on most cars) - use a good, proven synthetic oil (Mobil 1,
Redline, etc) and change it often. Synthetic do last longer - they don't
break down like petroleum-based oils do - but they still collect
contaminants, and those need to be removed.
What happens with the teflon - which, admittedly does coat moving parts
(like they claim) - is that it likes to coat other, non-moving parts even
more (like oil passages) - so like cholesterol in your arteries - Slick 50
will eventually give any engine a heart attack -the question is simply how
long you have to wait.
For more information - visit these links:
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol/skeptic/slick50.html
http://mail.comp.glam.ac.uk/~Minis/miniweb/oil_additives.html
The Federal Trade Commission has a juicy little article here, re: false
advertising:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/9607/slick.htm
So, do as you wish. But for now - when I look at used cars, I ask the owner
if he ever used an oil additive - if he says "Yup, and it runs like new!"
(Wow 30k mi? No kidding! You'd think it should fall apart!) I turn tail and
run - it's a safe bet that I'll be dumping cleansing additives into the
engine for a long time - to get the PTFE residue out.
It's your car - not mine :)
-Justin
Jon P. Inghram
linings, the PTFE can get too far up the cylinder and react adversely with
the naughty things goings on in the combustion chamber. In fact, among other
things, it can turn into hydrofluoric acid!
Ken Washington
I will repeat it hear for the benefit of the group. The damage in my
engine was caused by blockage of oil channels by the PTFE. The other
thing I mentioned in my separate email was that Slick 50, if you read
the fine print in 93 was not recommended for high mileage engines. Mine
had 195,234 miles and went bad in 2000 miles. I began using Militec-1 in
Jan 94. I wasn't exactly looking for something to put in my engine, but
I tried it, and I am glad I did. It works. Since I change my oil and
filter about every 3000 miles I will not use synthetics. I use Castrol
GTX 10w30 and Militec-1. I for one don't believe in extending the period
between oil changes.
TheCritic
Really? I thought that was a good thing!
Good god, people... When one of the biggest corporations in the world
(DuPont) is not interested in promoting its products for something which
they could easily make hundreds of millions on, you have got to think
something is wrong.
People got the idea that teflon is this wonder lubricant - it works on pots
and pans, to be sure - but its effects on engines are nothing but
detrimental.
-Justin
TheCritic
Ken Washington wrote in message <369709...@tiac.net>...
>I began using Militec-1 in
>Jan 94. I wasn't exactly looking for something to put in my engine, but
>I tried it, and I am glad I did. It works.
Could you explain how it "works"?
-Justin
Amit Kalra
AMit
Ken Washington
Militec-1 is a synthetic oil based metal conditioner. It has no resins
or particulates. It is the only product of its kind to obtain a
Justification and Approval from the U.S. Navy. That was done after the
Navy ran an 18 month test. Militec-1 also has National Stock Number.
Since I was involved with the Air Force supply system, I know how
difficult it is for a product to get a National Stock Number. Serious
testing and evaluation must take place...If you go to www.apdinc.com,
Dr. Roth of Advanced Product Distributors has a ton of information on
the product. Another website, www.bwv.com has a better price on the 16
oz. bottle...I buy mine at the Base Auto Parts store at Andrews.
The price is a lot better there...I not pushing hype. All I know is that
this product works.
T.H. Taylor
Just bought a 99 V6 Ex Coupe and found that the auxiliary power plug
shuts off when I stop the car. Is there an easy work around to this? I
like to leave my cell phone in the car to charge up while I am not in
the car. This defeats the purpose. A plain old cigarette lighter would
be nice.
Theron P. Keller
<t.h.t...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Actually, my 1995 Accord's cigarette lighter only works when the key
is on too. I posed a query here a couple weeks ago asking how hard it
would be to rewire it for continuous power. The replies were not
particularly encouraging.
TheCritic
Okay - I understand Miltec-1 now... At least it has reputable testing to
back it up.
Still I wonder why it's necessary - but at least I'm convinced it won't hurt
your engine.
To each his own..
Does the military actually USE Miltec-1? That would be a major selling
point..
-Justin
Gordon McGrew
>Cameron,
>
>I will repeat it hear for the benefit of the group. The damage in my
>engine was caused by blockage of oil channels by the PTFE. The other
>thing I mentioned in my separate email was that Slick 50, if you read
>the fine print in 93 was not recommended for high mileage engines. Mine
>had 195,234 miles and went bad in 2000 miles. I began using Militec-1 in
>Jan 94. I wasn't exactly looking for something to put in my engine, but
>I tried it, and I am glad I did. It works.
Just out of curiosity, how do you know "it works?" Is this just a subjective
evaluation or do you have real data?
David Everson
>Cameron,
>
>I will repeat it hear for the benefit of the group.
>Since I change my oil and
>filter about every 3000 miles I will not use synthetics. I use Castrol
>GTX 10w30 and Militec-1. I for one don't believe in extending the period
>between oil changes.
>
When you do 24,000 miles a year as I do, changing the oil every 3,000 miles
is a headache, since I would be changing the oil every one-and-a-half
months. No thank you.
The longer I can go between oil services the better, as far as I'm
concerned. Mine goes about 6,000, and even then I need to change the oil
every 3 months.
BTW, I use Castrol GTX 15w50, with no additives, and change the oil filter
at every oil change. For the price they cost, it's not worth making them
last two oil service intervals.
Ken Washington
Driving 24,000 miles a year is no big deal. When I was a Rainbow
Cleaning System dealer and distributor, I was putting 30,000 to 36,000
miles a year on my 83 900T. I changed the oil and filter every 3500 to
5000 miles. I bought my oil by the case. I know you are in the UK, but I
have not seen anything in my Haynes Manual (UK version for the 9000) or
owners manuals that recommend 15W50 oil. If you want to run 6000 between
oil and filter changes that is your perogative, your car and your money.
Militec-1 is sold in the UK.
Ken Washington
I know the Navy is using Militec-1. They were the first branch to run
the tests. That created another set of problems because the Army is the
one that normally does that type of testing. That set off an
interservice pissing contest. The Navy uses Militec-1 in several
applications for vehicles, aboard ships and nuclear submarines and it is
used to lubricate various weapons. If you go to www.apdinc.com, there is
a ton of information on the various uses. Why use it? If you want to
reduce wear in your engine, transmission, power steering and a lot of
other places to extend the life of vehicles and machinery, then
Militec-1 makes sense. Does it work? Yes. Check out the oil analysis
done during a transit test. All I can say is try it...I am confident you
will like it.
David Everson
Who said I owned a SAAB anyway? Thc car I was referring to is a 1986 Peugeot
205. Just check how many ngs this thread is posted to.
M King
oil more than once a year.
Matt O'Toole
Ken Washington wrote in message <3698E6...@tiac.net>...
>Driving 24,000 miles a year is no big deal. When I was a Rainbow
>Cleaning System dealer and distributor,
There you go! From gimmick vacuum cleaners to snake oil! What will it be
next? Vitamins?
Matt O.
Rob Clark
>
> I have 236k on the original engine with no engine work. I change oil every
> 3,000 and I put slick 50 in every year or so. Other then that, I have done
> no maintenance to the engine. I have an 89 corolla and I am sold on them.
> I have averaged 25k/year on it until this year. Good Luck, Rob
I've got an '87 BMW 325is w/ 285,000 miles on it.
--Rob
Dave Plowman
>
> I know the Navy is using Militec-1.
Do the navy run BMWs? Tests for additives for oil in, say, ships is a
different matter. You don't do routine oil changes in that type of large IC
engine. Give me one oil manufacturer that tells you to use /any/ additive.
--
___ __
| \ _ / \ __ __ _________________________
| | /\ \ /|_ \__ / \ | | |\ | | \ / dave....@argonet.co.uk
| | /--\ \/ |_ \ \__/ \__/ | \| |__/ / For all those little
|___/ \__/ / sound solutions
__________________________________________/ (Dave Plowman)
Paul Charles Glasspoole
UK?
I live in Minnesota, USA and use 5w30 in my 99 Camry.
Paul
celer...@overclock.com
>My 1976 Chysler Cordoba just turned over 900,000 miles. Never changed the
>oil more than once a year.
but the whole engine got changed every 3 years, right?
Dave Plowman
<mar...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> My 1976 Chysler Cordoba just turned over 900,000 miles. Never changed the
> oil more than once a year.
This is actually 90,000 miles. It just /feels/ like 900,000
>
--
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk
RIP Acorn
Ken Washington
You try to make a BMW sound like it is from another planet. The bottom
line is that it is an automobile that in most cases burns gasoline
(petrol) for fuel and uses oil as a lubricant. Take the wheels off and
weld on a hull with propeller, and you have a boat. BMW's, like anyother
car, truck, boat, plane or machinery is subject to wear from friction.
As far as, Militec-1 is concerned, checkout the info on it, and either
try it or don't. I have been using it since January 94, and enjoying its
benefits. As far as what manufacturer's recommend, for years they did
not want you using synthetic oils in the engines or transmissions...How
many people paid attention to that....Don't try to argue with me. I use
it an and am very happy. Try www.apdinc.com.
Ken Washington
I can assure you the Rainbow made by Rexair is no gimmick vaccum
cleaner. If you can find a Rainbow owner that has pets, allergies or
asthma in their home, they will tell you different. Everytime Consumer
Reports knocks the Rainbow, more get sold in the US. In Europe, where
people as a group are more concerned about the environment, Rainbow's
sell by the truckload. As for Militec-1, try it or not. In the meantime
keep lubing the motor on your Kirby with Slick 50.
john_wi...@my-dejanews.com
it's use on the end of walking canes and crutches.
In article <7772bs$5f$1...@remarQ.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
David Everson
>Dave,
>
>You try to make a BMW sound like it is from another planet. The bottom
>line is that it is an automobile that in most cases burns gasoline
>(petrol) for fuel and uses oil as a lubricant. Take the wheels off and
>weld on a hull with propeller, and you have a boat. BMW's, like anyother
>car, truck, boat, plane or machinery is subject to wear from friction.
But a boat often runs at a continuous engine speed and load, unlike a car
engine which is subjected to continuous variable engine speeds and loads, as
well as the fact that when the Navy DO service their boats, I would presume
they get completely stripped-down and rebuilt, with all worn parts replaced.
Not exactly an option for the average car driver.
They often have shorter oil service intervals, for instance, my boat
requires an oil change every 50 hours, which at average speed is about 200
miles (it's only a small fishing boat). My car requires an oil service every
6,000 miles. A bit of a difference, yes?
Dave is right, oil manufacturer's do not intend their products to be used
with additives, to the extent that many oils contain additives already (such
as Castrol GTX Magnatec). Modern semi-synthetic or fully-synthetic oils do
not degrade with time as much as old mineral oils do. They also retain their
grade and viscosity at high engine temperatures better.
David Everson
<3699749b...@cnews.newsguy.com>...
Just noticed that typo. I meant 15w40. This is as recommended for the UK by
the owner's manual and the Haynes manual. It is also what is written on the
side of the oil can. As far as I remember it is designed for operation
between -10 deg. C, and 25 deg. C (23 deg. F to 77 deg. F) a wide
temperature range that means it is usable all year round.
As a quick note to Ken Washington, the guy who keeps going on about adding
Militec-1 to your oil: You said if I wanted to risk a 6,000 mile interval
between oil and filter changes, that was up to me.
Well, 6,000 miles is the recommended service interval for my car, and also
for your 1987 SAAB 9000S as well (SAAB currently recommend 12,000
intervals).
If you want to waste money changing the oil twice as often as necessary THAT
is up to YOU
ElmerCat
>My 1976 Chysler Cordoba just turned over 900,000 miles.
How do you know it's 900K? In 1976, I don't think Chrysler had the guts that
Toyota does to include that extra digit on the odometer.
ElmerCat
David Everson
BMW, Volvo, & SAAB as well, just out of the other ngs this thread goes to.
Matt O'Toole
David Everson wrote in message
<916081636.8210.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>But a boat often runs at a continuous engine speed and load, unlike a car
>engine which is subjected to continuous variable engine speeds and loads,
as
>well as the fact that when the Navy DO service their boats, I would presume
>they get completely stripped-down and rebuilt, with all worn parts
replaced.
>Not exactly an option for the average car driver.
>They often have shorter oil service intervals, for instance, my boat
>requires an oil change every 50 hours, which at average speed is about 200
>miles (it's only a small fishing boat). My car requires an oil service
every
>6,000 miles. A bit of a difference, yes?
Not really. Cars do operate at an average speed and load, which is what
engineers ultimately use to determine how internal engine parts should be
built, and what maintainence intervals should be. It just so happens that
with a passenger car, these hour intervals correspond pretty accurately to
miles, so either figure can be used. Obviously, boats and planes have wind
and/or waves to deal with, so engine time may have little correlation to
mileage. The same is true of construction equipement, etc. Boat motors
operate under a heavier average load than cars', even if they do run at a
steadier speed and temperature. But, if you look at most auto owners'
manuals, they suggest halving the oil change interval for "severe" or "heavy
duty" service. 50 hours at 60 mph equals 3000 miles, the oft-recommended
interval for this "heavy duty" use. So, the maintainence intervals are not
as completely different as you think.
Matt O.
Mr. Ed
Rob Clark wrote in message <3698BE71...@alumni.hmc.edu>...
And I have an `86 Accord auto with 320,000 klms on it (200,000 miles) .Never
touched the engine or tranny and only one tie rod end in the front end. I
,too, change my oil and filter every 4000 klms (2400) miles and I use a
diesel rated oil.I have no leaks and it uses about 1/2 cup of oil between
changes and mostly highway highspeed driving. It still cruises at 100mph +
when I want it too.Where legal.
Ed.Ontario.Canada
Mr. Ed
>87 9000S
>87 900S
>83 900T
I, too have started using Militec in `98 and I found it really works
.Especially in my auto tranny.It went from sluggish to normal after putting
a couple of ounces in. I also use it to lubricate fan bearings and my guns.
it seems to provide better than normal wear protection. I have used it in
the engine of my `86 Accord as well and each application is supposed to last
for 15,000 miles.At 200,000 miles on my car I figure it can`t hurt.
Of course I change oil and filter religiously at 4000 klms (2400) miles and
use a diesel rated oil. It still cruises at 100mph+ where legal.
Ed.Ontario.Canada
Mr. Ed
M King wrote in message
<7X9m2.76566$c8.37...@hme2.newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
>My 1976 Chysler Cordoba just turned over 900,000 miles. Never changed the
>oil more than once a year.
tolerances and increased anti-pollution devices.
Ed.Ontario.Canada
>
>
>
mich...@thesolutioncenter.com
'71.
I really tend to agree with this..and it is not 'necessarily' their fault.
The fact is that technology is changing so fast (in every single aspect of
our lives) that we cannot, as human beings, keep up with it all. Engines are
really not the same beasts they were even ten years ago (unless you are
talking old v-8's in trucks/suv's/etc..and even many of those are changing).
Further, Jiffy Lube (and the like) are the ones that have duped the public
into thinking they have to change their oil every 3k miles...even the auto
books say differently (and they are paying if anything goes wrong....it is
called warranty). Do people actually think the auto manuf want owners to
intentionally hurt the engines? There are such things as severe driving, and
that includes stop/go traffic (idling is awful for newer engines...I have
even read where it is better to shut it off than sit in traffic for more than
a couple minutes...not enough heat being generated).
You're right, intervals are getting longer not shorter. The other thing to
remember is how much oils themselves have changed!!! Most don't appreciate
that either.
In article <916083004.9221.0...@news.demon.co.uk>,
> --
> from Dave :-) <da...@SPAM-ME-NOTbootsorion.demon.co.uk>
> Make obvious correction to reply
>
> He who dies with the most toys... wins!
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Tino
someone broke the rear end (no oil on a very very cold day). These older cast
iron engines seem to go on for ever.
Dave Plowman
> . As far as what manufacturer's recommend, for years they did
> not want you using synthetic oils in the engines or transmissions...How
> it an and am very happy.
money sticking gunge into your engine, so be it. But why encourage others,
or are you on commission? Most of those posting here with high milage
engines seem to just use good straight oil, but stick to oil change times.
Ken Washington
manuals the book says the engine oil and filter should be changed every
7500 miles or every 3750 miles in severe service. Well, if you have to
do any type of stop and go city driving, even for short periods, or make
short runs that don't allow your car to heat up completely, then it is
considered severe service. That covers the majority of drivers in the US
and a lot of other places. The only exception would be those that just
cruise the highways.
Ken Washington
Short of having an oil analysis the other data I rely is the feedback
from my car. I can feel the increased smoothness in the engine. All
three of my Saabs treated with Militec-1 have not used any oil. The 5
spds on my 83 900T and 87 900S 16V indicated a dramatic reduction in
wear by the lack of almost any metal particles typically found on the
magnetic drain plug. The 5 spd on my 83 900T had over 251,000 miles
without any problems, when it had to go to Saab heaven after being
totalled. If you want to see data, checkout the www.apdinc.com site.
There is test data as well as testimonials from professionals.
Ken Washington
Let us make a clear difference between boats and ships. I don't know how
you run your boat. I do no what I have seen here in the States. A lot
has to do with what a person is doing with their boat. It could be
fishing, water skiing or just out cruising. The same can be said for
cars. I have driven in Europe, including the UK. I have also driven
across the US. You can drive for 8 hours in Texas and see a sign that
says El Paso 440 miles. But Militec-1 has marine applications because it
works in the presence of water or solvents. The Society of Automotive
Engineers (SAE) Chapter as New York Institute of Technology ran a small
Briggs & Stratton engine treated with Militec-1 in an amphibious racing
vehicle. Water entered the engine during high speed racing without
causing any harm. The report stated the engine operated as if it were
new after 1000 hours of extreme operating conditions and water
contamination. There was no sign of corrosion.
Ken Washington
87 9000T
87 900S
83 900T
Matt O'Toole
Matt O.
Tom Waugh
Dave Plowman <dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote in article
<na.dec78e48c2.a...@argonet.co.uk>...
> In article <7X9m2.76566$c8.37...@hme2.newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, "M
King"
> <mar...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> >
> > My 1976 Chysler Cordoba just turned over 900,000 miles. Never changed
the
> > oil more than once a year.
>
> This is actually 90,000 miles. It just /feels/ like 900,000
> >
>
Bunny Buster
David Everson wrote:
>
> Ken Washington wrote in message <369A3F...@tiac.net>...
> >Dave,
> >
> >You try to make a BMW sound like it is from another planet. The bottom
> >line is that it is an automobile that in most cases burns gasoline
> >(petrol) for fuel and uses oil as a lubricant. Take the wheels off and
> >weld on a hull with propeller, and you have a boat. BMW's, like anyother
> >car, truck, boat, plane or machinery is subject to wear from friction.
>
> But a boat often runs at a continuous engine speed and load, unlike a car
> engine which is subjected to continuous variable engine speeds and loads, as
> well as the fact that when the Navy DO service their boats, I would presume
> they get completely stripped-down and rebuilt, with all worn parts replaced.
> Not exactly an option for the average car driver.
>
> They often have shorter oil service intervals, for instance, my boat
> requires an oil change every 50 hours, which at average speed is about 200
> miles (it's only a small fishing boat). My car requires an oil service every
> 6,000 miles. A bit of a difference, yes?
>
> Dave is right, oil manufacturer's do not intend their products to be used
> with additives, to the extent that many oils contain additives already (such
> as Castrol GTX Magnatec). Modern semi-synthetic or fully-synthetic oils do
> not degrade with time as much as old mineral oils do. They also retain their
> grade and viscosity at high engine temperatures better.
Bunny Buster
engines are burning the fuel better, with less leakage of combustion
byproducts into the crank case. Additionally, the improved emissions
systems are doing a better job of keeping the air in the crank case
"fresh" leading to less contamination of the oil. Finally the chemistry
of the oil additives is advancing, making them more able to absorb the
gasses that do make it into the crank case, with out developing damaging
acids, or losing viscosity stability.
I have 235k plus miles on my 77 pickup with the 20R engine. I change
the oil, and filters, and do a tune-up every 5,000 miles. All the
cylinders are still within five pounds of the pressure reading I got
when I did the first tune up twenty one years ago, and it still passes
the smog test with flying colors. I have used Castrol 20-50wt since it
was new, (Las Vegas, yes it is hot here). I change the gear lube in the
tranny and differential every 50k miles, and have been running 140wt
since the first change.
I have replaced the front oil seal twice, the water pump twice,
alternator once, the clutch once, the front brake pads three times, and
the rear shoes once. Today I had to order a new heater valve from the
dealer, other than that it has been twenty one years of uneventful
reliable driving.
David Everson
>In your zeal to respond you got it wrong. In both my 87 900 and 87 9000
>manuals the book says the engine oil and filter should be changed every
>7500 miles or every 3750 miles in severe service.
Well, you're then changing you're oil more often than even the severe
interval would suggest. Manufacturer's wouldn't suggest we left the oil in
longer if it would damage the engine because if too many failed in service,
people would just stop buying that manufacturer's cars, as well as claiming
thousands in warranty pay-outs. If anything, it's the reverse.
BTW, I work for an engineering company, in the quality control department.
When we get parts in with a poor reliability record, we change suppliers.
Ken Washington
I am not on any commission from anyone. I don't buy my product from the
distributor's websites I have mentioned. I buy my Militec-1 at the Base
Exchange auto parts store for a lot less than the distributors charge
for a 16 oz. bottle. Until I discovered Militec-1, my only experience
had been a nightmare with Slick 50 in my 83 900T. Two thousand miles
after I put it in I was looking for a replacement engine. As for why do
I recommend Militec-1. I am always looking for a good product, one that
does what it is suppose to, to help my cars run better or last longer. I
have found the Militec-1 works.
It is just as much your right not to use it, as it is mine to use it and
tell people about it. I am sure you have some things that you like, have
worked well for you and you pass it along to others. I spent some time
in the UK and I was initiated into an RAOB Lodge, Greenshield Lodge 9118
at SHAPE, so easy up on the ego. We are talking the Red Arrows flying
against the Thunderbirds....If you don't want to use Militec-1, don't.