Haynes vs Chiltons vs Factory Service manual
r. t.
I've been reading many posts about how good the factory (Honda)
service manual is and the other two are less then acceptable.
Can you give explicit examples of what Haynes and Chiltons are
lacking. What will I not get in them but would in the
factory copy?
I'm just starting out to work with cars so I would have
assumed Haynes to be more then decent for a novice...?? right?
thx
Larry williams
@posting.google.com:
Hey R.T.-
My personal experience with the Haynes and Chilton manuals is that they
lack accurate diagrams, and their instructions are over-simplified. For
example, they may describe a nine step process to changing the front disc
brakes. You'll see a sentance like "3. Remove the brake caliper from the
connecting housing." (very vague) There will be no diagram accompanying
the step, and no detailed procedure as to how this step is actually
accomplished. So, you spend an hour figuring out how to remove the
caliper.
This is just an example, I'm not saying you'll read the sentance above in
the Haynes or Chilton Honda books, but you get the idea. I've had a lot
of Chilton and Haynes manuals, and personally, I've given up on them.
They aren't detailed enough for serious work.
They are OK for smaller jobs, like oil changes, spark plugs, air filters,
etc. But if you find yourself replacing a water pump, you'll be better
off with the full service manual. If you think you'll be tackling more
serious stuff, buy the full manual from Helm. If you think you'll leave
the big stuff for the mechanics, the Chilton or Haynes books will get you
by.
mike
"r. t." <cider...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:15ee7405.03040...@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I've been reading many posts about how good the factory (Honda)
> service manual is and the other two are less then acceptable.
>
> Can you give explicit examples of what Haynes and Chiltons are
> lacking. What will I not get in them but would in the
> factory copy?
buy a helm manual.
buy a chiltons, but save the receipt.
compare... return chiltons manual.
the helm manual is what the *dealers* use to fix the car. every nut, bolt,
torque setting, and spec is in there.
the chilton is more of a guide, than anything else.
Peter
examples
helm has lots of really good diagrams
i've seen a chiltons have errors in it, like it went from step 5 to step 7,
and it doesn't mention important things.
on my 94 civic i changed the oil pan. it failed to mention that the A pipe
of the exhaust has to be removed first. So there i am with the oil pan
dangling down, because I thought i could slide it out the side, but i
couldn't, and i've got three seriously rusted bolts holding the a pipe on
which took me hours to remove.
although all the manuals are lacking in some respects. take for example a
recent brake shoe change (my first actually)
the haynes manual devotes two steps to using wire cutters to retract the
spring for the parking brake cable (one step to remove, one to install)
although i found a quick twist of the wrist would do the trick.
It told me that removing the hub would make things easier. but since I
don't have a wrench that big, i skipped it, since it did portray it as an
optional step. it took me forever to remove the shoes..and then it says to
'install the return springs' and fails to mention that these springs are
really strong, and require all my manly force to stretch them far enough.
and of course i had to completely ignore the order of the steps in order to
actually get the job done.
for your basic oil change, tune up job, save the money and get a haynes
manual. if you plan on actually doing involved jobs, get the factory
manual.
sorry for the long post.
--Peter
"r. t." <cider...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
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fluffy
have the factory service manual. For the price, the Haynes and Chilton
manual aren't too bad at all. If you're mechanically incline and have some
automotive maintenance experience the Haynes and Chilton will do fine. The
Haynes don't have as good diagrams and many occasions it's replaced with an
actual photo of the vehicle that may or may not be similar to yours. Their
manuals usually covers many years... ie.. 84-91 Accord or something similar.
If you plan to keep your car for a very long time and do the maintenance on
it yourself the best choice is get the factory service manual.
"Peter" <pe...@acranox.org> wrote in message
news:0LJka.375995$F1.58626@sccrnsc04...
Robert R.
<larry_duk...@hotmial.com> wrote:
>cider...@yahoo.ca (r. t.) wrote in news:15ee7405.0304080437.73c74b45
>@posting.google.com:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've been reading many posts about how good the factory (Honda)
>> service manual is and the other two are less then acceptable.
I have both a Haynes and factory manual, I never use the Haynes.
Although it sometimes has a useful tip about an alternate tool to use
in case you don't have the special overpriced snap-on tool designed
for the job.
>> Can you give explicit examples of what Haynes and Chiltons are
>> lacking. What will I not get in them but would in the
>> factory copy?
Exact diagrams, all the torques, thread pitches, and precise
procedures. The main factory service manual is 1000-1500 pages for a
single year. The Haynes/Chilton is maybe 200 pages for several
models/years.
>> I'm just starting out to work with cars so I would have
>> assumed Haynes to be more then decent for a novice...?? right?
They are cheap and easily obtainable. Buy one (the Haynes is better
than Chiltons).. If it is insufficient for what you want to do, get
the factory manual. The investment on the Haynes manual is minimal.
Jason Faas
15ee7405.03040...@posting.google.com, "r. t."
<cider...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I just bought the Honda manual for my new (to me) 91 Civic. Cost was $68
with shipping. I believe the others can be purchased for under $20. I
don't plan on doing all of the work myself, but I will certainly do what I
can. I'll do more when I can afford a garage and some tools.
Beyond maintenance and repair, I'm just as interested in seeing how it all
goes together and understanding the engineering. Also, if ever the car is
in the shop and the mechanic calls, I'll know that I'm looking at the same
thing he's looking at. If he's full of crap, I can check it out.
All in all, if I'm able to do one job myself that would otherwise have gone
to the shop, I've paid for the book and then some. From reading the other
posts, I think the factory book will also have saved me some frustration.
Jason
Greg
sometimes is a guide in case I need some more tips. If you buy one just one,
it needs to be the helm.
I have them in a 3" binder and they are very helpfull, even if I don't do
the job my self.
"r. t." <cider...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
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99 C1V1C
"Greg" <gsm...@wars.com> wrote in message
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Greg
www.helminc.com
"99 C1V1C" <n...@way.com> wrote in message
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Gml...@scvnet.com
>
> I've been reading many posts about how good the factory (Honda)
> service manual is and the other two are less then acceptable.
>
> Can you give explicit examples of what Haynes and Chiltons are
> lacking. What will I not get in them but would in the
> factory copy?
Well, in the Chilton's manual for the aircooled VW beetle, there is a
section on how to troubleshoot the radiator. With attention to detail like
that, I won't be buying Chilton's manuals soon. Chilton is also good at
leaving out large chunks of service data saying something like "This
procedure is too difficult for the home mechanic, take it to your dealer."
I'd like to make that determination myself based upon the procedures, thank
you.
Haynes are certainly better, not perfect, but better.
You can't beat the factory book for completeness.
I wish that they made John Muir style "Idiot Books" for modern vehicles.
George
99 C1V1C
usually when the question "where to buy" is posed, it is implies "where is
the best (i.e. cheapest) place to buy" :-)
"Greg" <gsm...@wars.com> wrote in message
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99 C1V1C
What's the difference between the "1996-2000 Civic Service Manual" and the
"1996-99 Civic 2/3/4 Door Shop Manual"???
Would they cover the same material concerning my 99 Civic. I don't care
about the other years.
"r. t." <cider...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
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Matthew Hunt
> Yes... but what about the 'factory' manual (is there a difference).
No. The Helm manual is the factory manual.
> Also, usually when the question "where to buy" is posed, it is implies
> "where is the best (i.e. cheapest) place to buy" :-)
I don't think you have a choice, unless you find a used one on eBay.
Gus
"99 C1V1C" <n...@way.com> wrote in message
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George Macdonald
I haven't seen a Chilton manual for a while but the last time I looked they
were so generic I considered it fraudulent that they tried to sell them for
any specific make or type of car. Example: a VW Beetle (the old air cooled
one) manual which described a procedure for changng coolant.
The Haynes seemed a lot better but still had lots of generic stuff which is
basically recycled, one size fits all text and even diagrams... with a few
token words/diagrams specific to the model which is sometimes out of date
for the model year. You might find the odd tip which is useful which
bypasses some factory approved procedure which needs special tools.
The Helm factory manuals are mostly excellent. On older models they were
sometimes a bit short on info with some procedures and in that respect they
seem to get thicker (more pages) and thicker with newer models.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
99 C1V1C
search (duh) and find thousands of links... Thus my reply: "where is the
BEST place to buy" Don't bother responding... Matthew Hunt has answered my
question.
"Gus" <g...@nosmpam.com> wrote in message
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