springs: cut 'em?
Jonno
an inch (is this enough?). Can I just have a shop slap some shorter springs
on? Can they cut my OEM springs? If I cut my OEM springs, how will this
affect handling? I don't want a softer ride, I would like to make it stiffer
if possible, especially the rear. BTW, what are coilover's? Do they fit on
my OEM strut? Do I need them? My car is a 95 Civic EX.
Jerry Girard
If you upgrade to any type of spring, do not use the OEM shock. Use an
adjustable shock, like Tokico.
z
wheel travel. there are plenty of shorter springs available, so if you
are really interested in handling, or even not ruining your current
handling, you oughta go that route.
In article <X3_a5.3114$sR.1...@east3.usenetserver.com>, "Jonno"
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Stewart DIBBS
Suspension 101 discussion follows:
Spring rates are a combination of the coil diameter, wire gauge and the
number of turns. The more turns in a coil, the softer it is. Conversely, for
the same ride height, coil diameter and wire guage, fewer turns means a
harder spring. If you doubt this, consider the effect if there was only 1
turn of 10mm steel, The coil would approximate a piece of bent wire ie VERY
hard.
Spring rates are expressed in the number of pounds required to compress the
spring 1" (or the metric equivalent). A road going car will generally handle
better if the standard spring rate is increased about 20%. Rally cars
30-45%. Race cars, 50%+
When you lower a car, the available bump movement is reduced, hence, the
spring rate has to be greater so that for a given bump event, the suspension
does not bottom out. Because the spring rate is higher, on bump the spring
stores more kinetic energy, which has to be absorbed by the shock.
What do shocks do? They keep the tires in contact with the road, by
absorbing the energy of the spring. If the shock is not strong enough, the
wheel/tire moves faster than the shock can absorb the energy, and the tire
leaves the surface of the road. ie NO adhesion = NO control.
If the shock is too strong, it results in a choppy ride, and again, and the
as the car tilts on corners, the tires often leave the road because the
suspension it too rigid. ie NO adhesion = NO control.
Consequently, with lowered springs, better shocks, preferably adjustable,
are required.
Additionally, if wider tires are used, serveral things happen.
1. More rubber means more adhension, hence more body roll. (there's no free
lunch).
2. Bigger wheels and tires mean more unsprung weight, hence the desirability
of alloy wheels.
More body roll requires thicker sway bars to increase the roll stiffness.
Greater roll stiffness increases the likleyhood of lifting inside wheels on
fast corners. So springs that work well with standard sway bars may be too
hard when thicker sway bars are fitted.
So: you need to decide what sort of ride you want once the mods are
complete. Fortunately, there's plenty of people about who can provide
appropriate equipment and advice.
Stewart DIBBS
bochinam
character for "baka" and put it on your windshield, then glue on the biggest
whale tale you can find.
j
ps: 2" drop is always better then 1".
Jonno <jon...@ccccccc.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:X3_a5.3114$sR.1...@east3.usenetserver.com...
S N
bumps.
bochinam <boch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:y%7b5.198$423....@news.uswest.net...
slacker808
want. your ride will get real soft and bouncy. if you want a real stiff
ride, get new springs *and* shocks. get Eibach SportLines or
Skunkworks.
---
rich
Jonno
for better handling in the corners. As far as the cheesy ass wing kits go,
no thanks.
"bochinam" <boch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:y%7b5.198$423....@news.uswest.net...
> Go for it! While you're at it, make the wheels 17", find the Japanese
> character for "baka" and put it on your windshield, then glue on the
biggest
> whale tale you can find.
>
> j
> ps: 2" drop is always better then 1".
>
> Jonno <jon...@ccccccc.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:X3_a5.3114$sR.1...@east3.usenetserver.com...
Gary Seven
Frank Young
"z" <gzuckier...@my-dejanews.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0627bd8c...@usw-ex0107-049.remarq.com...
> don't cut the springs. they will not be any stiffer and you will lose
snip
cutting springs does make them stiffer.
CaptainKrunch
coil or two, you have now changed the spring rate causing them to be
stiffer? WRONG! Unless they are progressive rate springs and not
linear rate springs they do not get stiffer unless you cut out the
initial progressive rate portion of the spring. If you take a factory
spring which is rated at 500 lbs per inch and cut a coil or two off
it still has the rated 500 lbs per inch spring rate, only the spring
is shorter. Christ.
"Frank Young" <pri...@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:8ku23o$3q60$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
Stewart DIBBS
Frank Young <pri...@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:8ku23o$3q60$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
Sorry, but it does not. If all you do is cut them, the rate does not change,
because the number of coils per inch is still the same. Only if the spring
is then heated, STRETCHED back the original length and retempered, then the
number of coils per inch is reduced, and hence the spring rate is increased.
When I was building and rallying Renault R8's in the 70's and 80's we often
had this done.
Another way to increase the spring rate is to increase the diameter of the
wire, assuming the free length and number of coils is the same.
Stewart DIBBS
Martin Dziura
them stiffer, but you're a total bone head for cutting springs, can't afford
200 for springs?
CaptainKrunch wrote in message ...
>It appears you have lost your common sense by stating that by cutting out
a
>coil or two, you have now changed the spring rate causing them to be
>stiffer? WRONG! Unless they are progressive rate springs and not
>linear rate springs they do not get stiffer unless you cut out the
>initial progressive rate portion of the spring. If you take a factory
>spring which is rated at 500 lbs per inch and cut a coil or two off
>it still has the rated 500 lbs per inch spring rate, only the spring
>is shorter. Christ.
>"Frank Young" <pri...@nospam.not> wrote in message
>news:8ku23o$3q60$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>> "z" <gzuckier...@my-dejanews.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:0627bd8c...@usw-ex0107-049.remarq.com...
>> > don't cut the springs. they will not be any stiffer and you will lose
>> snip
>>
Sean Dinh
It's not the money, it's the technical experience gained when cutting your own
springs.
CRUZMSL
<pri...@nospam.not> wrote:
> "z" <gzuckier...@my-dejanews.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0627bd8c...@usw-ex0107-049.remarq.com...
> > don't cut the springs. they will not be any stiffer and you will lose
> snip
>
> cutting springs does make them stiffer.
Cutting springs is the cheesy way to lower a car. The spring's
characteristics will be adversely changed. The proper way to do it is to
buy a new set of lowering springs.
Gary Seven
amabdoned airfield and look for a circa World War I Biplane and take
the wings off. You'll be the toughest guy around because you will
have a big fin and go to Kmart and buy a big speaker too. Plat the
base real lour. Then you will be even more of a man because people
can tell froma distance that you're a schmuck (as opposed to wasting
time to actually meet you). All the chics will leave their Mercedes
500SL driving boyfriends behine and flock to you. Just wait you'll
see! Trust me...
Chris Campbell
I really need a quick, cheap power-increase.... My car gets really pathetic
on hills ..
i need sum good answers quick ....Plz people
L Cao
pri...@nospam.not says...
>
>
> "z" <gzuckier...@my-dejanews.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0627bd8c...@usw-ex0107-049.remarq.com...
> > don't cut the springs. they will not be any stiffer and you will lose
> snip
>
> cutting springs does make them stiffer.
No it doesn't. The spring rates do not change. They just sit lower with
shortened compression travel. A good way to try out your suspension's
bottom-out bumpers.
--
Lee Cao - www.leecao.com
BlueText Development - www.bluetextdev.com
Martin Dziura
--
Martin Dziura
ICQ# 27930082
Sean Dinh <sean...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3973599D...@netscape.net...
Mista Bone
push it off a cliff.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
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Kenji Kita
the springs right? Well since you taken the think apat already, why not replace
them with Eibach or Nuespeed or any other aftermarket springs, and struts. It's
not that much.
But hey it's your car. You do what ever you want to it.
> news:3973599D...@netscape.net...
Kenji Kita
the springs right? Well since you taking the thing apart already, why not
replace
them with Eibach or Nuespeed or any other aftermarket springs, and struts. It's
not that much.
But hey it's your car. You do what ever you want to it.
If you think this is a way to lower your car with good results,then everyone who
bought
aftermarket springs are idiots, and companies like Eibach, Neuspeed, H&R,
Tokico, Showa,
are making a killing on profits by selling springs to the public, when really
all they needed
to do was to cut the springs. Oh and all those magazines out there that said
don't cut the springs
don't know what they are talking about.
Please!!!!
Sean Dinh
z
style lowering technique to drop that $30 49 chevy; take your welding
torch and hit each spring for a minute until it sags and drops that
corner. Boy, that will make your handling stand out.
In article <96383961...@news.aei.ca>, "Stewart DIBBS"
<s...@vysor.com> wrote:
> Frank Young <pri...@nospam.not> wrote in message
> news:8ku23o$3q60$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
> > cutting springs does make them stiffer.
> Sorry, but it does not. If all you do is cut them, the rate does
> not change,
> because the number of coils per inch is still the same. Only if
> the spring
> is then heated, STRETCHED back the original length and retempered,
> then the
> number of coils per inch is reduced, and hence the spring rate is
> increased.
> When I was building and rallying Renault R8's in the 70's and 80's
> we often
> had this done.
> Another way to increase the spring rate is to increase the
> diameter of the
> wire, assuming the free length and number of coils is the same.
> Stewart DIBBS
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