Del Sol vs Miata
CygnusX-1
1995 or 96. Which car is better? What are the strengths/weaknesses
of each car? I understand that there may be some safety concerns
with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true? Del Sol is
discontinued...correct? If so, could it be a collector's item in
the future? One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
Cygnus
The Bringer of Balance
Nathan Nagel
The Miata is a sports car, the Del Sol is a sporty car. Which do you
want?
nate
Matthew Chidester
"Nathan Nagel" <njn...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3CD9DE67...@earthlink.net...
oh c'mon help the dude out :)
vtec engine (very nice!) but front wheel drive (ayeee) - tight handling for
the del sol (very nice) nice push of accel. off the corner for the miata -
(also very nice)
it's a toss up - I can see why you want a del sol (or I think it's called a
crx in japan still.. I can't remember) I think they are cool - but the main
reason I bought a roadster (japan name..) is for the RW - not many true
sports cars are out there with the 50/50 balance with light weight, one
gripe I do have about mazda is their quality of parts seem sub-par to honda
(I miss my honda integra's coated cam cover.. ) heck just look under the
hood at the 2 and you can see quality - but the integra had front wheel
drive.. something I was getting bored with - plus the mazda has all the
options: RW top up or down.. (course you will need snow tires if you live in
a snowy place)
tough call nate
would it help your decision if you put some cheap suspension mod and maybe a
not so cheap body kit - that would look unique
even the M1 mazdaspeed kit looks cool.. wish I had the $ to do the same to
mine.
Matthew Chidester
99' twilight blue (actually it's a 98..)
fbloogyuds
> "Nathan Nagel" <njn...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > CygnusX-1 wrote:
> > >
> > > I am thinking of buying either a used Del Sol or Miata, maybe year
> > > 1995 or 96. Which car is better? What are the strengths/weaknesses
> > > of each car? I understand that there may be some safety concerns
> > > with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true? Del Sol is
> > > discontinued...correct? If so, could it be a collector's item in
> > > the future? One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
> > > so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
> > > Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
> >
> > want?
> >
> > nate
>
> oh c'mon help the dude out :)
>
> vtec engine (very nice!) but front wheel drive (ayeee) - tight handling
for
> the del sol (very nice) nice push of accel. off the corner for the miata -
> (also very nice)
The Del Sol is a mid engine car, and has not been made for several years.
You want to get the VTEC one - the earlier non-vtec cars were not fast.
I've never heard of problems with the top.
Don't buy cars expecting them to appreciate in value.
Floyd
Luke Martin
you're gonna pick up a lot more straight line speed. The del sol vtech came
with a second generation B16B engine, good for 170hp. In the light weight
chassis, it made for quite a screamer. However, the miata is a better car
overall (much better handling, design). Also, I put a body kit on my miata,
and get more looks than my friends' turbo supra, turbo eclipse, 3000gt and
corvette, just because the body kit creates a car no one has seen. Go for
the car because of it's performance, looks and originality can be adressed
later.
Luke
CygnusX-1 <_cygnu...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:c7d6db20.02050...@posting.google.com...
mike
miata...
rear drive
more parts
more availability
TRUE convertible
delSol...
unique
a honda
Luke Martin
Luke
mike <mikein562...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LAmC8.71405$071.23...@typhoon1.we.ipsvc.net...
Matthew Hunt
CygnusX-1 <_cygnu...@excite.com> wrote:
> I am thinking of buying either a used Del Sol or Miata, maybe year
> 1995 or 96. Which car is better? What are the strengths/weaknesses
> of each car?
I have a 1994 Civic del Sol Si, and I've driven my parents' 2000 Miata
a few hundred miles, so I'll try to offer some comparisons. Note that
my Miata experiences are for a later generation than you're considering;
I'm sure the Miatexperts can point out relevant differences.
The del Sol was produced from 1993-1997, and was called the Civic del Sol
the first two of those years. It's built on a 92-95 Civic platform. There
are three US trim levels: The S (about 102 hp), the Si (about 125 hp, via
a SOHC VTEC engine), and the VTEC (160 hp via a DOHC VTEC engine).
Note that the highest trim level is called "VTEC" despite the
lower-level Si also having a VTEC engine (and the word VTEC on the
engine's valve cover). Be clear on which you're getting. This tends
to confuse people new to del Sols.
There are minor functional changes over the del Sol's history. The
VTEC trim level (and hence DOHC VTEC engine) were not introduced until
1994. In 1995, power locks (no biggie in a small two-door) and the
remote trunk release (biggie, since you put the roof there) were introduced.
In 1996, the round fog lights disappeared. Hence, I'd probably recommend
the 1995 the most. I think 1995 also brought suspension upgrades
(rear stabilizer to the Si, front stabilizer to the S?) but I'm not sure
of the year.
Here's a summary of my opinions:
Miata:
Pros:
- RWD
- Excellent shifter, clutch feel, road feel
- Lightweight
Cons:
- Tiny trunk (due to RWD)
- Poor visibility and cabin aesthetics with roof up
- Plastic rear window (at least some years)
del Sol:
Pros:
- 2x the Miata trunk volume
- I favor the targa top over convertible (see below)
- Honda reliability (no experience with Mazda, though)
Cons:
- FWD
I have, and for a long time will only have, just one car. The del
Sol is fine as my only car. The Miata would not be; its trunk is not
big enough for some things that I enjoy. Also, I spend 95% of my
time with the roof on, because I don't generally like being topless
on the freeways at 70-80 mph, and my trips in town are short and not
worth messing with the roof all the time. So I only go topless on
mountain/country roads. The roof-up experience of the del Sol beats the
Miata, IMHO. It's pretty much like a normal car. BTW, removing the del
Sol's aluminum roof and storing it in the trunk is easier and faster
than you'd probably guess.
If I were picking a car purely for the driving quality, it would
probably be the Miata, especially since I'm a budding autocrosser. But
as my only car, with my cargo requirements and roof on/off ratio, the
del Sol wins.
> I understand that there may be some safety concerns
> with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true?
Never heard of any. I'm not clear on how the Miata would be instrinsically
better.
> Del Sol is discontinued...correct? If so, could it be a collector's
> item in the future?
*shrug*
I think the VTEC is, to some extent. I wouldn't buy either as an
investment, per se.
> One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are so many of them out.
> I rarely see Del Sol's on the street. Appreciate your responses and
> comments. Thanx!
Both are common here in Pasadena, CA. It's easy to see 3 or 4 of
either while running errands.
Matthew Hunt
fbloogyuds <flo...@accessone.com> wrote:
> The Del Sol is a mid engine car
This is absolutely not true. The del Sol is on 92-95 Civic platform,
and is front-engine/front-drive.
Either that, or I've been driving in my 5 reverse gears the past
two years.
Cello
wrote:
>Hey, another thing to consider is if you are looking at the Del Sol: V-Tech
>you're gonna pick up a lot more straight line speed. The del sol vtech came
>with a second generation B16B engine, good for 170hp. In the light weight
>chassis, it made for quite a screamer. However, the miata is a better car
>overall (much better handling, design). Also, I put a body kit on my miata,
>and get more looks than my friends' turbo supra, turbo eclipse, 3000gt and
>corvette, just because the body kit creates a car no one has seen. Go for
>the car because of it's performance, looks and originality can be adressed
>later.
No offence but I'm not sure what you mean by "2nd generation B16B
engine". Actually, the 185 hp B16B engine is equipped on the JDM (6th
generation) Civic Type-R, which was not available in the N. American
market.
In N. America, Del sol VTEC (the DOHC VTEC models) are equipped with
either the 160 hp B16A3 (94-95) or 160 hp B16A2 (96-97).
Cello
fbloogyuds
> The Del Sol is a mid engine car,
It appears I'm wrong. My brain must have been thinking Toyota MR2.
Floyd
Ryan
"fbloogyuds" <flo...@accessone.com> wrote in message
news:udl57h5...@corp.supernews.com...
now *there's* what you should buy!!!
91-95 MR2 turbo. my boss has one of these beauties. faster and better
handling than my GS-R. of course, he also has to park his during the
winter, being RWD. :)
M Hum
Salt, sand and lots of snow is a reason to park a car in the winter,
not RWD, The most fun EVER driving in the winter was my '72 240Z.
mike
is the DOHC VTEC. A good one will be harder to find than a good Miata.
Make sure it has the DOHC engine. An un-educated friend of mine thought he
was getting a good deal cuz it was a VTEC, even had the VTEC DOHC sticker on
the back, (but not under the hood)
While true the top on/up experience is probably better in the Del Sol, the
top down/off experience is better in the Miata. Visibility with top up
isnt great in a miata, (not BAD either), but its not much worse than the del
sol. with the top down, visibility in the miata is well, not an issue, with
the del sol, it doesn't change.
The Del Sol being Front wheel drive kinda feels tighter/better in corners
because its a lot harder to lose it in a turn(after all, your being PULLED
through that turn). The miata CAN break loose in a turn and if your not a
well-seasoned driver, that can be big problems. When you accelerate, weight
is shifted to the REAR...away from the drive wheels on a Del Sol, INTO the
wheels on a miata. I had a 90 CRX for quite a while, and heard stories of
someone putting turbos on them, they where useless because as it
accelerated, it was losing traction.
It was a tough decision, and to be honest the only reason I was able to
decide, was I bought a Miata for my wife, and I fell in love with it. Now
we have two.
I'm not sure whats available for Del Sols, but I know there are quite a few
Aftermarket parts/ Performance upgrades/ super/turbochargers, headers...etc
for the Miata.
The Two main reasons I shied away from the Del Sol,
1) Del Sol is not a full convertible, (I REALLY like the FULL ragtop)
2) Del Sol is front wheel drive. (just doesnt FEEL like a real sportscar)
those are my main 2 reasons... one minor detail though
ever try to do a donut in a front wheel drive car?
and I don't know about the Honda Group, but I can say from experience, that
you will not find a better group of people willing to help, and give advice
(Leon, Lanny, Per, tooloud, and many more), WITHOUT ragging you flaming you
or otherwise putting you down. You want to destroy a beautiful car by
throwing grotesque body parts on it, people around here will tell you they
would never do such a thing, that it looks horrible, then give you the link
you asked for...
look around, drive them both, take your time, dont rush the decision...
one final note..there is a decent performance boost in the 94-97 years as
opposed to 90-93 as they went from a 1.6L to a 1.8L engine.
cruise through http://www.miata.net read through the FAQ, and
GOOD LUCK.
mike
93 Black
"CygnusX-1" <_cygnu...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:c7d6db20.02050...@posting.google.com...
Myk
>now *there's* what you should buy!!!
>
>91-95 MR2 turbo. my boss has one of these beauties. faster and better
>handling than my GS-R. of course, he also has to park his during the
>winter, being RWD. :)
Why? I had no problems with my MR2 in the snow. Matter of fact I used
to pop the T-Tops off, stick the ski's behind the seats (sticking
straight up) then cruise up in the snow to the resorts. I had a lot of
fun drifting around corners that most people in 4x4's were crawling
up. The only downside is the very light weight in the front made it
easy to lock the front tires if you weren't careful. Swap the tires to
serious snow tires and it's even easier! (I won't mention that I was
using Yokohama AVSi's for snow-duty.. hehe)
If he has to park it, tell him to learn how to drive.
_______________________________
Every Honda has been equipped with Traction Control
for the last several years. It is marked A/C which must
stand for "Active Control." Apparely the only thing that
happens when you turn it on and it kills what little torque
the car has making it impossible to spin the wheels.
Postwood
> 1995 or 96. Which car is better? What are the strengths/weaknesses
> of each car? I understand that there may be some safety concerns
I am planning on buying my first Miata in October. I researched the
Del Sol also, but it's pretty much just a Civic with the back seats
missing and a removable top. The coolest thing with the Del Sol to me
is the roll down rear window. Truely freaky. But I am choosing the
Miata for several reasons:
- It's a true sports car and true convertible. There's no way you'll
feel as sporty with a VTEC Del Sol suffering from wheel hop under hard
acceleration from a stop as you will with a RWD Miata, despite the
lower HP.
- Besides, forget HP for a moment, Look at the torque peaks of the
cars. Torque you can feel. The Miata has a nearly flat torque line.
It hovers between 70 and 90 ftlbs the whole range. Most Hondas lack
low end torque, but, due to the great VTEC technology, have a flat
peak where they can keep pulling. There is a reason you see so many
riced up Hondas.
- Back to the convertable points I mentioned in the first
bullet...There is no way you'll get that bar behind your head away in
the Del Sol. The Del Sol isn't the real competition for the Miata
anyway, that's the BEAT which we don't get here, but it has lacking
HP. Or, you could bump it up to the S2000, another true convertible,
but in a different price range. All of the Hondas mentioned also lack
the low end torque.
- Online support, oddly enough, is another deciding factor. I can
find instructions on how to do fairly complex jobs on the Miata
online. The Hakuna site makes changing fluids look so easy that when
I first get my Miata I'll change out the transmission and differential
fluids.
- If I was getting a Honda, I'd get the 92-95 EX Sedan or the 92-95 EX
hatchback. They are more practical than the Del Sol, and if I'm
shorting myself the Miata due to lack of practicality, then why not go
all the way. After all, the Sedan still only weights 2500 lbs.
- Weight...and call me a freak ["YOU FREAK!!"] but I am not a big fan
of inertia when I'm cornering. I loved my 1990 323 and I'm fairly
fond of my current car, a 1994 Saturn SC2. Both weight 2300 lbs but I
upped my hp/lb ratio from 0.035 to 0.056. However, the 323 could beat
the SC2 to 35 in a race since it has 92 ftlbs of torque at 2000 rpms
and the Saturn's peak is at 5500. If I'm going to continue my theme
here, I need to fix what's still wrong with my car, and that's front
wheel hop [see 1] and get the car lighter. Plus, I've always wanted a
sun roof, so why not go the distance and get a real dream car.
- Dream Car. Short of the Miata, the only other dream car that I have
that I can afford is the 1973 Buick Rivera, and I can't afford gas for
that beast. There's no way I can get a Lotus Elise and I don't want
the 3000GT since it's 3800 lbs. The Del Sol, it just doesn't butter
my toast. Nor does the MR2...though I do love the 1989 Supercharged
ones.
- Speaking of Superchargers. They sell them for the Miata. In fact,
they sell nearly everything for the Miata. And I'm not talking R
stickers and 18" exhaust tips.
- I'm balding. What better stereotype for me to have than a Miata?
[I'll leave the limited edition yellow Miata of the early 90s alone
since I'm straight.] :)
> with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true? Del Sol is
> discontinued...correct? If so, could it be a collector's item in
The del sol got the nickname the del soak for a while, but I
understand that Honda will fix that leak for you for free now.
> the future? One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
> so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
> Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
I consider it a good thing that there are so many out there. I don't
want to be unique, I'd get the 73 Riviera if I wanted that, I want a
fun car. And the support of having many people in them is a good
thing for me.
That said...Get whatever you want. I wouldn't rule out the MR2 from
the 1990s either, or the 1980s for that matter.
Alex Rodriguez
_cygnu...@excite.com says...
>
>I am thinking of buying either a used Del Sol or Miata, maybe year
>1995 or 96. Which car is better?
Better at what?
>What are the strengths/weaknesses
>of each car? I understand that there may be some safety concerns
>with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true?
What concerns? If anything it is should be safer than a convertible in
a rollover.
>Del Sol is discontinued...correct?
Yup
>If so, could it be a collector's item in
>the future? One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
>so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
>Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
If you are buyer because you are expecting the price to go up,
you are buying for the wrong reason.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)
Alex Rodriguez
>The Del Sol is a mid engine car, and has not been made for several years.
>You want to get the VTEC one - the earlier non-vtec cars were not fast.
Not, it wasn't. It was front engine, front wheel drive.
>Don't buy cars expecting them to appreciate in value.
Agreed.
Matthew Hunt
In article <b1dd6da0.0205...@posting.google.com>,
Postwood <post...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> - Back to the convertable points I mentioned in the first
> bullet...There is no way you'll get that bar behind your head away in
> the Del Sol.
True, but I never notice it. You really have to crane your neck to see
it while seated.
> - Speaking of Superchargers. They sell them for the Miata. In fact,
> they sell nearly everything for the Miata. And I'm not talking R
> stickers and 18" exhaust tips.
Uh, they sell superchargers for the del Sol, too. And real suspension
components, and so forth. There's an article on the web by a tuning company
that got a del Sol S up to 1.0g on the skidpad for not too much $$$. But,
I agree that the RWD and light weight of the Miata are important factors.
> The del sol got the nickname the del soak for a while, but I
> understand that Honda will fix that leak for you for free now.
My 1994 has never leaked a drop. I don't know if it was fixed before
I bought it in 1999 or not. I do pay good attention to the roof seals,
lubricating them with silicone grease 3-4 times a year (20 minute job).
> That said...Get whatever you want. I wouldn't rule out the MR2 from
> the 1990s either, or the 1980s for that matter.
Yup.
tooloud
> 1995 or 96. Which car is better?
Miata.
> What are the strengths/weaknesses
> of each car?
Miata = RWD sports car. del Sol = FWD sporty coupe
> I understand that there may be some safety concerns
> with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true?
I dunno. It's probably safer than the Miata.
> Del Sol is
> discontinued...correct?
Yes.
> If so, could it be a collector's item in
> the future?
Not a momentary chance.
> One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
> so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
Huh...what does that tell you?
> Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
Any time.
> Cygnus
> The Bringer of Balance
--
tooloud
Remove nothing to reply...
mike
> > so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
i rarely see Yugos
tooloud
news:aberul$l...@gap.cco.caltech.edu...
> Just a couple of counterpoints...
>
> In article <b1dd6da0.0205...@posting.google.com>,
> Postwood <post...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > - Back to the convertable points I mentioned in the first
> > bullet...There is no way you'll get that bar behind your head away in
> > the Del Sol.
>
> True, but I never notice it. You really have to crane your neck to see
> it while seated.
I simply don't believe that you can't tell the del Sol isn't a real
convertible when seated in the car.
> > - Speaking of Superchargers. They sell them for the Miata. In fact,
> > they sell nearly everything for the Miata. And I'm not talking R
> > stickers and 18" exhaust tips.
>
> Uh, they sell superchargers for the del Sol, too. And real suspension
> components, and so forth. There's an article on the web by a tuning
company
> that got a del Sol S up to 1.0g on the skidpad for not too much $$$. But,
> I agree that the RWD and light weight of the Miata are important factors.
I think the point is that modifying the Miata generally means new
suspension, forced induction, decent exhaust, etc., and the Honda
modifications usually consist of lighted emblems and fart pipes.
> > The del sol got the nickname the del soak for a while, but I
> > understand that Honda will fix that leak for you for free now.
>
> My 1994 has never leaked a drop. I don't know if it was fixed before
> I bought it in 1999 or not. I do pay good attention to the roof seals,
> lubricating them with silicone grease 3-4 times a year (20 minute job).
>
> > That said...Get whatever you want. I wouldn't rule out the MR2 from
> > the 1990s either, or the 1980s for that matter.
>
> Yup.
--
John
over the Miata in a heartbeat. It really depends on what you are using it
for... Nice features with DS: removable HARD top (bad weather friendly)
Suprireor acceleration with the VTEC model compared to miata and front wheel
drive and great handling. A few other things are better too.
Any more questions please ask.
John
"CygnusX-1" <_cygnu...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:c7d6db20.02050...@posting.google.com...
John
False... the engines in the front. Better for weather.
John
John
Mine has never leaked as well... though I always clean and lube around the
seals. Also... much more aftermarket parts for a del sol then miata.
John
"tooloud" <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:WrCC8.5314$1B....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
I have NEVER had a problem with my Del Sol... Never ever!
John
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> > True, but I never notice it. You really have to crane your neck to see
> > it while seated.
>
> I simply don't believe that you can't tell the del Sol isn't a real
> convertible when seated in the car.
Well, if you look back, you can. I don't want a real convertible, despite
the Miata owners' inability to imagine that. Porsche managed to find
buyers for both the Cabrio and the Targa, after all.
I've driven both cars, and was honest my evaluations. I specifically
stated that most of the time, I want my roof on, and the targa is better
for that. I made it clear that people who drive mostly with the roof off
might see things differently. In either car with the roof down, I get
wind in my face, blue sky above me as far back as I can tilt my neck,
and I can't hear the radio.
I think it's funny that the Miata owners who are posting seem to
conclude all kinds of things about the del Sol's handling, interior
comfort, and speed apparently without having driven one...
> I think the point is that modifying the Miata generally means new
> suspension, forced induction, decent exhaust, etc., and the Honda
> modifications usually consist of lighted emblems and fart pipes.
That's a stupid point. The fact that "most" modifications are pointless
in no way limits your ability to make useful modifications.
Maybe the Miata owners think there are more performance modifications
for the Miata because they pay attention to vendors selling Miata
parts? After all, there are Honda owners in this thread saying there
are more del Sol parts. Go figure, each pays attention to what he
owns.
tooloud
> In article <DGEC8.11168$RR3.4925@sccrnsc02>,
> tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > > True, but I never notice it. You really have to crane your neck to
see
> > > it while seated.
> >
> > I simply don't believe that you can't tell the del Sol isn't a real
> > convertible when seated in the car.
>
> Well, if you look back, you can. I don't want a real convertible, despite
> the Miata owners' inability to imagine that. Porsche managed to find
> buyers for both the Cabrio and the Targa, after all.
>
> I've driven both cars, and was honest my evaluations. I specifically
> stated that most of the time, I want my roof on, and the targa is better
> for that. I made it clear that people who drive mostly with the roof off
> might see things differently. In either car with the roof down, I get
> wind in my face, blue sky above me as far back as I can tilt my neck,
> and I can't hear the radio.
>
> I think it's funny that the Miata owners who are posting seem to
> conclude all kinds of things about the del Sol's handling, interior
> comfort, and speed apparently without having driven one...
Who said none of us have driven one? I found it to drive like...well, like
pretty much every other Honda I've driven, which is to say not a bad thing,
but not entirely fulfilling either.
The best way to phrase it is like a magazine writer once said: "I feel silly
wearing driving gloves in the del Sol, but perfectly at home with them in
the Miata."
> > I think the point is that modifying the Miata generally means new
> > suspension, forced induction, decent exhaust, etc., and the Honda
> > modifications usually consist of lighted emblems and fart pipes.
>
> That's a stupid point. The fact that "most" modifications are pointless
> in no way limits your ability to make useful modifications.
Certainly not, but it does lessen the chance that you'll find something
special.
> Maybe the Miata owners think there are more performance modifications
> for the Miata because they pay attention to vendors selling Miata
> parts? After all, there are Honda owners in this thread saying there
> are more del Sol parts. Go figure, each pays attention to what he
> owns.
Well, del Sol owners always struck me as potential Miata owners that didn't
quite muster up the cajones to buy one. You know, they heard RWD cars
couldn't be driven in the winter or that buying a convertible is such a big
step, so they bought a del Sol and made a few sacrifices to get a more
boring car whose switches operate with slightly more class. YMMV.
tooloud
news:tlFC8.244411$nc.36...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
<snip>
> I have NEVER had a problem with my Del Sol... Never ever!
Most of us probably never really have. These aren't Cavaliers and Escorts
we're dealing with here.
> John
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> The best way to phrase it is like a magazine writer once said: "I feel silly
> wearing driving gloves in the del Sol, but perfectly at home with them in
> the Miata."
...in a review that was actually quite favorable toward the del Sol's
handling and power. On a road I drove up today, I might add.
> Well, del Sol owners always struck me as potential Miata owners that didn't
> quite muster up the cajones to buy one.
Nothing livens things up like making it personal, huh?
Free Clue: Some of us really, honestly, prefer the del Sol, having
driven both.
I've always had a good impression of Miata owners (as I've said, my
parents are among them). But your superior attitude, condescension,
and inability to accept the priorities or observations of others is
quickly eroding that impression.
pars
Del Sol and Miata are sporty, but the MR2 turbo is the real deal.
Pars
98 Hatch
pars
CygnusX-1 wrote:
> I am thinking of buying either a used Del Sol or Miata, maybe year
> 1995 or 96. Which car is better? What are the strengths/weaknesses
> of each car? I understand that there may be some safety concerns
> with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true? Del Sol is
> discontinued...correct? If so, could it be a collector's item in
> the future? One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
> so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
> Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
>
slackerbot
---
rich
slackerbot
Del Sol... chick car, hard to find (especially the VTEC models), not
too fond of the targa top
Miata... tired design (especially since you want the older models),
looks like a tic tac on wheels, seems that middle age men are the only
ones driving these things, too many Miatas on the streets
on the positive side...
Del Sol... unique design, rare (not too many people have these things),
ultra reliable (neighbors have one and have no problems with it), it
will readily accept a more powerful B-series engine from an Integra or
Civic Si.
Miata... RWD and a popular choice for weekend auto-crossing, lots and
lots of performance parts available, lightweight.
personally, i would forget the Del Sol and Miata. get a 95 Toyota MR2
Turbo instead. if you upgrade the turbo and add a couple of electronics
for the engine... you've got a real pocket rocket. ;-)
---
rich
Myk
<johns...@nospammingyahoo.com> wrote:
>False... the engines in the front. Better for weather.
Hah! More like cheaper to assemble.
Lee Cao
> Who said none of us have driven one? I found it to drive like...well, like
> pretty much every other Honda I've driven, which is to say not a bad
thing,
> but not entirely fulfilling either.
Ya, I drove a Miata a few times and they were all very fulfilling
experiences, in the sense that I had barely enough room to sneeze without
bumping into something.
And for gawds sake, put some factory "zoom" into these underpowered
go-karts. Every Mazda "zoom zoom zoom" TV spot is an exercise in irony.
I also drove a Del Sol back in 1997 or so, the one with the B16A engine. It
was a virgin car so I couldn't really do anything stupid with it. You are
right in the sense that the ergonomics, quality, and overall feel of the car
is very much Honda-like. However, the fact that it was a 2-seater without a
roof did not escape me either.
> The best way to phrase it is like a magazine writer once said: "I feel
silly
> wearing driving gloves in the del Sol, but perfectly at home with them in
> the Miata."
Well, no one said the two cars were the same. It's well known that the
Miata appeals to the 50+ crowd whom collectively have more hair on their
chin than the top of their head. Miata is a convertible in the very
traditional sense, even down to the lack of power. Del Sol doesn't have the
same snob appeal.
> > > I think the point is that modifying the Miata generally means new
> > > suspension, forced induction, decent exhaust, etc., and the Honda
> > > modifications usually consist of lighted emblems and fart pipes.
> >
> > That's a stupid point. The fact that "most" modifications are pointless
> > in no way limits your ability to make useful modifications.
>
> Certainly not, but it does lessen the chance that you'll find something
> special.
Huh? You mean Mazda owners find heavily pre-modified cars "special"? If I
bought a car, I wouldn't want any aftermarket parts on it. At least
minimal, and nothing done to major drivetrain parts. That way when I modify
it I know its done right.
> > Maybe the Miata owners think there are more performance modifications
> > for the Miata because they pay attention to vendors selling Miata
> > parts? After all, there are Honda owners in this thread saying there
> > are more del Sol parts. Go figure, each pays attention to what he
> > owns.
>
> Well, del Sol owners always struck me as potential Miata owners that
didn't
> quite muster up the cajones to buy one.
Funny, Del Sol owners struck me as potential Miata buyers who didn't want to
be embarassed by a minivan from a stop light.
> You know, they heard RWD cars
> couldn't be driven in the winter or that buying a convertible is such a
big
> step, so they bought a del Sol and made a few sacrifices to get a more
> boring car whose switches operate with slightly more class. YMMV.
LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based on
very practical reasons. Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when people
outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
> --
> tooloud
> Remove nothing to reply...
--
Lee Cao
RC Central - www.rccentral.com
Lee Cao
"Myk" <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:p5anduclum0afn6qr...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 May 2002 01:19:24 GMT, "John"
> <johns...@nospammingyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> >False... the engines in the front. Better for weather.
>
> Hah! More like cheaper to assemble.
*shrug*
Fact remains it's better for low-traction conditions.
Lee Cao
Adam Payrot
Lee Cao <lig...@lee-SPAM-ME-NOT-cao.com> wrote in message
news:abgqbf$3o3$1...@lore.csc.com...
>
> Ya, I drove a Miata a few times and they were all very fulfilling
> experiences, in the sense that I had barely enough room to sneeze without
> bumping into something.
I talked to a guy who was 6' 7" who owns a Miata, he had no problems. Then
again, he had problems fitting into a 98 Supra TT.
> And for gawds sake, put some factory "zoom" into these underpowered
> go-karts. Every Mazda "zoom zoom zoom" TV spot is an exercise in irony.
If you cared to read into what the Miata was inspired by, you'd notice that
it's quite a bit faster than the cars that it was modeled after. MGB's and
the like. What's "underpowered" to you has actually been dominating it's
autocross classes against "more powerful", "faster" cars. Sure, many cars,
trucks, mini-vans can beat a Miata in a straight line, but that's not what
the car's all about. It's about a fun, good-handling sports-car that
doesn't cost an arm and a leg to own, but can still hold it's own to other
sports-cars.
> I also drove a Del Sol back in 1997 or so, the one with the B16A engine.
It
> was a virgin car so I couldn't really do anything stupid with it. You are
> right in the sense that the ergonomics, quality, and overall feel of the
car
> is very much Honda-like. However, the fact that it was a 2-seater without
a
> roof did not escape me either.
At this point, you're probably going to start saying that I'm a miata owner,
etc etc. Well, before I got my Miata, I was looking at buying a del Sol.
Ya, you heard me right. I love the way they look, and wanted one pretty
badly. Well, I never found one for a price that I could afford (that was in
as good a shape as my Miata was when I got it). With that said, my 94 Miata
can hold it's own in a straight-line race with a del Sol. I've raced stock,
slightly modded, and even one with an engine swap. All three ran 15's in
the quarter-mile at a drag-strip, while my 94 and my friend's 97 ran 16's.
Our 2 miata's were ahead of all 3 del Sol at the quarter-mile mark when we
raced on the streets.
> Well, no one said the two cars were the same. It's well known that the
> Miata appeals to the 50+ crowd whom collectively have more hair on their
> chin than the top of their head. Miata is a convertible in the very
> traditional sense, even down to the lack of power. Del Sol doesn't have
the
> same snob appeal.
Well, I can pick this one apart pretty easily. ALL of my local Miata
friends are younger than 25. That's about 10-15 people. I don't know what
it is with people always classifying the Miata w/ the "wine-and-cheesers"
(so to speak ;-), but many of us are much, much younger than 50. As for me,
I'm 18. You are right, there are some people that buy a miata just to say
they own one, or as some type of image thing. We call them
"wine-and-cheesers" for a reason. Then there's people like me and my
friends. After the "wine-and-cheese" Miata club meetings, they (otherwise
known as the Outlaws in the Miata community) would go have a tech-day, never
going under 100mph as they drove over to the person's house holding the tech
day. I certainly don't see a del Sol tech day, or even a club for that
matter. (see below for further explanation).
And how do convertibles "lack power". Is that to say that your del Sol can
beat a 98 Mustang Cobra convertible because it has no power? What about the
Corvette convertible, or better yet, how bout that Lotus Elise, w/ it's
"underpowered" self. Damn, if that's true, I really need to sell my Miata
and look for a del Sol. (and don't come back w/ some BS about that's not
what you meant. You clearly stated that a lack of power is a trait of
convertibles).
Hmm, "snob appeal". Then there must be some inferiority complex with del
Sol owners. You see, we as Miata owners have clubs, tech days, track
sessions, performance driving schools, 400+ cars meeting up at the same spot
for a week-long event of partying, driving, and more partying (at least if
you're in the Darkside group ;-). Every time I see a del Sol, they are
either trying to race me, revving on other people, etc etc. They don't seem
to care that the car next to them is another del Sol, they just have to
prove they're faster, got more balls, etc etc. Maybe it's because I live in
a city with a lot of "ricers", but I haven't met one del Sol owner that even
acknowledges another. With the Miata crowd, it doesn't matter whether
you're male, female, old, young, many of them are easy-going people and
enjoy their car and the gatherings and what-not that we have.
> Huh? You mean Mazda owners find heavily pre-modified cars "special"? If I
> bought a car, I wouldn't want any aftermarket parts on it. At least
> minimal, and nothing done to major drivetrain parts. That way when I
modify
> it I know its done right.
Every del Sol I see looks the same. That is what he was trying to say.
Their are two del Sol's where I live that look pretty nice, and they are
close to what one would look like if I had one. One of them won quite a few
awards at Hot Import Nights in Dallas last year, but has since been
converted back to stock. The other, a nice combination of parts that you
see on Civics, Accords, and other del Sol's. As for the rest, it's usually
the fart-pipes (I would probably have one on a del Sol I own), stickers, and
Z3 fender kits.
Look at all the modified Miata's. There's the occasional hideous one, but
for the most part each is a unique car. There's roll-bars (many different
ones to choose from), exhausts (many different to choose from as well, and
each specifically sound-tuned), and many other things (would make for a huge
post to say it all). A Miata is all about having fun, and as such, you will
see that a Miata is usually customized by its owner to suit his/her
individual preferences.
> Funny, Del Sol owners struck me as potential Miata buyers who didn't want
to
> be embarassed by a minivan from a stop light.
As I said above, they weren't made to go fast in a straight line. You
should take a look at some autocross listings sometime. You will see that
Miata's have their own class, Spec Miata, and also Spec Miata II. Then you
go on and you see that they run in CS, CSP, and BSP (I believe BS too).
Look at the top in each of these 3 classes. You'll usually see Miata's
winning, beating out the new MR-S (which has more power and is supposedly
faster).
Perhaps an explanation on the performance mod thing. He said PERFORMANCE
MOD. There are very few (if any) companies that specialize in JUST del
Sols. For Miata's, we have Flyin Miata, Racing Beat, Racingmazda.com (a
10-second, 400+ hp Miata, if you can believe that), RSpeed. Then you branch
off into other companies. Sure, Weapon R and Greddy, as well as a few
others, also carry Miata parts, but there is a far greater number of shops
that deal with miata's specifically than there are del Sol shops.
> LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based
on
> very practical reasons. Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when
people
> outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
Still don't see the "non-practicalness" of a Miata. I'm a college student,
and the Miata is my only car and daily driver. I can fit a ton of crap in
the trunk, and even planned a 1.5-2 week vacation, packing enough
clothes/supplies for the whole time. It would have easily worked. Shopping
is no big deal, everything fits. Sure a TV wouldn't fit, but would it fit
in a del Sol either?
Oh, and I'm probably one of the few people on this group that think the
Miata and del Sol to be in the same niche. They are both "impractical"
(what most people think), 2-seater cars with a small trunk. After that,
their difference may throw them into different niches, but when I was
initially looking for a del Sol, they both fell into the same category.
YMMV
Adam Payrot
David Hillman
Adam Payrot <zmzm...@swbell.net> wrote:
>As I said above, they weren't made to go fast in a straight line. You
>should take a look at some autocross listings sometime. You will see that
>Miata's have their own class, Spec Miata, and also Spec Miata II. Then you
>go on and you see that they run in CS, CSP, and BSP (I believe BS too).
Actually, Spec Miata is an SCCA Club Racing class. B Stock used to be
all Miatas, and euphemistically referred to as "Miata Stock". Last
year the MR2 Spyder was added, and this year the class has been
renamed C Stock. Old 1.6 Miatas are in E Stock. Both go to CSP, but
not BSP ( which is Corvettes and Z cars, essentially ).
>Look at the top in each of these 3 classes. You'll usually see Miata's
>winning, beating out the new MR-S (which has more power and is supposedly
>faster).
Actually, the early Miatas can't touch the old MR2 in E Stock. At
Nationals in 2001 the first Miata was 8th. In 2000, there was 1 ( 4th )
in the Top 10. The rest were MR2s and Porsche 924s. MR2s have won
this class Nationally for years, but locally you'll see Miatas winning.
So far this year in 3 ProSolo events, the Miatas are winless in C and
E Stock. Beaten each time by MR2s. They've done slightly better in
four Tours winning CS 3 times, but only once when any MR2s showed up.
--
D a v i d H i l l m a n
hil...@enteract.com
Ryan
> On Thu, 09 May 2002 16:12:16 GMT, "Ryan" <lum...@lummer.com> wrote:
>
> >now *there's* what you should buy!!!
> >
> >91-95 MR2 turbo. my boss has one of these beauties. faster and better
> >handling than my GS-R. of course, he also has to park his during the
> >winter, being RWD. :)
>
> Why? I had no problems with my MR2 in the snow. Matter of fact I used
> to pop the T-Tops off, stick the ski's behind the seats (sticking
> straight up) then cruise up in the snow to the resorts. I had a lot of
> fun drifting around corners that most people in 4x4's were crawling
> up. The only downside is the very light weight in the front made it
> easy to lock the front tires if you weren't careful. Swap the tires to
> serious snow tires and it's even easier! (I won't mention that I was
> using Yokohama AVSi's for snow-duty.. hehe)
>
> If he has to park it, tell him to learn how to drive.
I've told him that lots of times. :) maybe he parks it to keep the salt off
it, but he claims it's a difficult winter car.
> _______________________________
> Every Honda has been equipped with Traction Control
> for the last several years. It is marked A/C which must
> stand for "Active Control." Apparely the only thing that
> happens when you turn it on and it kills what little torque
> the car has making it impossible to spin the wheels.
my GS-R still has plenty of power when the A/C is on. i barely notice it.
Myk
ONLY to get the vehicle moving. After that it's usually a liability if
you are going anything over 20mph. You're asking one set of tires to
do everything, the next is just along for the ride. Having owned a few
FWD cars I'd rather drive a RWD through corners, not plow through
them. Btw, I did just test out 4 new Civic Si Hatchbacks. What the
hell is with the all-seasons on them and that boring as hell engine?
Plow city while the tires let everyone within a twenty block range
know you just took a right hand corner at 15mph. No thanks, and
DEFINITELY not for $19k.
(here I always thought they had a drug testing policy at Honda's
pricing department..)
Per K. Nielsen
wrote:
>Btw, I did just test out 4 new Civic Si Hatchbacks.
I recently test drove a new Toyota Corolla 1.8T with 192 hp.
Pretty quick above 6000 rpm, but soft as a sponge, and the whole FWD
thing definitely turned me off.
--
Per K. Nielsen
Per K. Nielsen
wrote:
>I recently test drove a new Toyota Corolla 1.8T with 192 hp.
>
>Pretty quick above 6000 rpm, but soft as a sponge, and the whole FWD
>thing definitely turned me off.
Oh... I almost forgot.
I also test drove the Mini Cooper. That one I kind of liked to drive
in spite of the FWD.
--
Per K. Nielsen
Spider
*Fact?*
Are you sure?
"Better" is a subjective term.
Spider
Spider
>
> LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based on
> very practical reasons.
Sports cars and two-seaters?!? Hardly.
> Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when people
> outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
Miata a niche car? As compared to the Del Sol? Maybe if you would
review the sales figures for the two cars, you might discover which
car was actually a niche car, and which is more mainstream.
I'm curious - which minivan is it that can beat which Miata off the
line?
I am guessing that you are reading this from r.a.m.honda, which would
explain your interesting position on the two cars.
Spider
Matthew Hunt
Spider <beelz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based on
> > very practical reasons.
>
> Sports cars and two-seaters?!? Hardly.
Some of us do... remember, practicality is a continuum, not a "you have
it or you don't." My del Sol is just big enough for me; I basically never
need to carry more than two people, and the trunk is almost always big
enough. Speaking from experience, this is not true of the Miata, which
has only half the trunk volume.
So, my del Sol is completely practical for me, but the Miata would not
be. Two cars, say a Miata and a WRX, would also be an excellent way
to meet my needs, but I can't afford two cars and only have room for one.
I'd be curious to hear from people who have a Miata as their only car
(and don't have trivial access to another car from a family member, etc.).
With a del Sol as my only car, I would say I find the cargo space a
problem about once a year; the last time was when my gf and I needed
to drive home from LAX after Christmas... and she had received a new
luggage set as a Christmas gift!
tooloud
news:3CDB4927...@trebnet.com...
> Yup, the MR2 Turbo is defently a 'real' sports car.
>
> Del Sol and Miata are sporty, but the MR2 turbo is the real deal.
Hmm...MR2 was a mid-engine, rear-drive 2-seater. Had a roof, so some might
say it's not a sports car. del Sol, definitely not a sports car (FWD)...and
if the Miata isn't a sports car, such a thing doesn't exist. Power has
absolutely nothing to do with it, and um...the Miata has been accused of
being a great handler.
> Pars
> 98 Hatch
<snip>
tooloud
I wouldn't really call it a fact. I'd say the fact is that automakers scored
big when they convinced American buyers that the cheaper-to-build and
unbalanced FWD cars were better in low traction situations.
What happens to the weight of a car when the accelerator is pressed?
> Lee Cao
tooloud
> In article <h6GC8.12628$WR1.5661@sccrnsc01>,
> tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > The best way to phrase it is like a magazine writer once said: "I feel
silly
> > wearing driving gloves in the del Sol, but perfectly at home with them
in
> > the Miata."
>
> ...in a review that was actually quite favorable toward the del Sol's
> handling and power. On a road I drove up today, I might add.
Yeah, but IIRC, virtually every contributor said the Miata was better.
> > Well, del Sol owners always struck me as potential Miata owners that
didn't
> > quite muster up the cajones to buy one.
>
> Nothing livens things up like making it personal, huh?
>
> Free Clue: Some of us really, honestly, prefer the del Sol, having
> driven both.
>
> I've always had a good impression of Miata owners (as I've said, my
> parents are among them). But your superior attitude, condescension,
> and inability to accept the priorities or observations of others is
> quickly eroding that impression.
Well, it's just that the del Sol is just a nice little sporty appliancy-like
car, you know...it's the one my mother would choose. The Miata is a sports
car.
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> Had a roof, so some might say it's not a sports car.
What kind of moron would say that?
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> What happens to the weight of a car when the accelerator is pressed?
Nothing, if your drive wheels never hook up.
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> Well, it's just that the del Sol is just a nice little sporty appliancy-like
> car, you know...it's the one my mother would choose.
That's funny, since it was exactly the other way around in my family.
tooloud
<snip>
> Funny, Del Sol owners struck me as potential Miata buyers who didn't want
to
> be embarassed by a minivan from a stop light.
See, and that's because you don't *get* the Miata. Miata owners don't race
minivans at stoplights. The Miata isn't about speed.
The speed argument is ridiculous. I've got a 137k mile Talon that I paid
under a grand for that will outrun any stock del Sol...without wheelspin.
Does that make my trusty winter car better than both the Miata and del Sol?
I doubt you'll understand the point of the Miata while you're still of the
stoplight drag nature.
> > You know, they heard RWD cars
> > couldn't be driven in the winter or that buying a convertible is such a
> big
> > step, so they bought a del Sol and made a few sacrifices to get a more
> > boring car whose switches operate with slightly more class. YMMV.
>
> LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based
on
> very practical reasons. Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when
people
> outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
Well, see, that's the thing; the Miata isn't about speed, and the del Sol is
essentially a targa Civic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but
certainly doesn't invite any passion into the mix.
nosfatsug
Gus 91 BRG (former 73 Z)
"M Hum" <jvw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VlxC8.3548$w27.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> In article <AdxC8.4488$bV3.1...@news0.telusplanet.net>, "Ryan"
<lum...@lummer.com> wrote:
> >
> >"fbloogyuds" <flo...@accessone.com> wrote in message
> >news:udl57h5...@corp.supernews.com...
> >> "fbloogyuds" <flo...@accessone.com> wrote
> >> > The Del Sol is a mid engine car,
> >>
> >> It appears I'm wrong. My brain must have been thinking Toyota MR2.
> >>
> >> Floyd
> >
> >now *there's* what you should buy!!!
> >
> >91-95 MR2 turbo. my boss has one of these beauties. faster and better
> >handling than my GS-R. of course, he also has to park his during the
> >winter, being RWD. :)
>
> Salt, sand and lots of snow is a reason to park a car in the
winter,
> not RWD, The most fun EVER driving in the winter was my '72 240Z.
nosfatsug
banger Rover powered Lotus Elise blew the doors off of everything else.
Sports Car = Handling!
Gus 91 BRG
"Matthew Hunt" <m...@wopr.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:abhn26$3...@gap.cco.caltech.edu...
Leon van Dommelen
I and a significant number of other people on rammm have Miatas as
their only cars. I take the car on long vacations, using only the
trunk space for clothes, toiletries, computer, complete tools (lots of
aftermarket parts, including a supercharger - though the only things
I ever needed were a screwdriver and a wrench to take out the airfilter
for cleaning, the jack and spare, and the oil filter wrench), car
cleaning supplies, 30 beers, wine, sherry, GPS, digital camera,
spare parts (fuel filter, wires, plugs, jumper cables - used to help
others.)
OK, I am single. But a couple on this group took their car all
over the US, dragging along a tent, sleeping bags, and clothes and
toiletries for two. OK, they were Canadians, who do not dress as
well as us Americans. Also, they probably cut down on the booze.
But still, they could fit what they needed in a Miata.
Last time I might have used a bigger cargo space is a couple of years
back when I bought a new clothes dryer. No way to get a decent size
clothes dryer in a Miata unless you put on a hitch and tow a trailer
(I have never felt the need for one.) But since I have absolutely no
desire to move a big heavy dryer by myself anyway, (I am single), I
would not have done it even if I would have had a truck available.
Not to mention I would not install the dryer myself anyway; the
installers would have to drive up in any case.
I have moved a vacuum cleaner, microwave, collapsible table, big
garbage can, broom, bucket, and lots of small stuff in my Miata. All
at the same time. I had no difficulty at all late last year with moving
my new 25" Sony television plus DVD player and assorted junk home in my
Miata. Correct that, the television was heavy like hell; I had to use
a dolly to get it out the car and into my living room; it was no picnic.
But the Miata space was no problem. People have transported love seats
in their Miatas.
Last week, I drove home three items in my Miata that had to be
shipped to my work address instead of my home address: they were
bigger than UPS would accept, so they had to be shipped by truck
to a business. Is not a cargo space that extends to alpha centauri
great? ;)
Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
REMOVE THE "z"s -> domm...@zmiata.net www.dommelen.net
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
nosfatsug
(weight and weight transfer on the drive wheel in the back), 4 wheel drive
subaru wagon on the flat (even weight distribution on all drive wheels),
Yamaha snowmobile best on the slalom (1). Engine location, drive wheels
have nothing to do with stopping which is really what counts in snowy
weather.
Gus 91 BRG
(1) Car and Drive road test for best performance in snow sometime back in
the late 70's early 80's
"Lee Cao" <lig...@lee-SPAM-ME-NOT-cao.com> wrote in message
news:abgqgs$3p9$1...@lore.csc.com...
tooloud
Uh, the oldest definition of a sports car was a rear-wheel-drive 2-seater
with an open roof. They may have insisted on a front engine as well, though
I'm not sure on that.
Hey, I don't make the news; I just report it.
tooloud
Not exactly. I see you need a little help here. Regardless of "hook-up", the
weight transfers to the rear of the car. This aids RWDs.
Methinks you've never driven a car with perfect 50/50 weight distribution.
tooloud
See, and most guys would feel like an idiot if their *mom* was the one that
drove the RWD sports car and they chose a FWD sporty car. I'd be kind of
embarrassed at family functions, that kind of thing.
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> Not exactly. I see you need a little help here. Regardless of "hook-up", the
> weight transfers to the rear of the car. This aids RWDs.
No, it doesn't. Weight transfer arises because the force that accelerates
the car is applied at the bottom of the tires, but the car's center of
mass is some inches above that. This results in a torque about the center
of mass, which imparts a downward force on the rear of the car and an
upward force on the front.
This process requires that there be an acceleration on the bottom of
the car, and completely slipping tires do not provide one. Once you have
some acceleration, weight transfer occurs which aids further acceleration.
Therein lies the acceleration advantage of RWD; under normal circumstances
there is always some traction available at the rear wheels, so total
slippage does not occur, and weight transfer quickly kicks in.
Matthew Hunt
tooloud <nospa...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> See, and most guys would feel like an idiot if their *mom* was the one that
> drove the RWD sports car and they chose a FWD sporty car. I'd be kind of
> embarrassed at family functions, that kind of thing.
Luckily, we're not all as insecure as you are.
Pankoski
We bought a Del Sol, well actually 2 of them. The most important
differences for me was the Del Sol's larger trunk and inside space, better
overall handling and the availabilty of a more powerful engine without
having to go to the aftermarket.
The Miata will just barely outform the 100 HP Del Sol S model, which isn't
saying much.
The Miata and the 125 HP Del Sol Si are about equivalent overall.
The 160 HP Del Sol Vtec buries the Miata in all aspects.
"CygnusX-1" <_cygnu...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:c7d6db20.02050...@posting.google.com...
> I am thinking of buying either a used Del Sol or Miata, maybe year
> 1995 or 96. Which car is better? What are the strengths/weaknesses
> of each car? I understand that there may be some safety concerns
> with the targa top of Del Sol. Is that true? Del Sol is
> discontinued...correct? If so, could it be a collector's item in
> the future? One gripe with Miata is the fact that there are
> so many of them out. I rarely see Del Sol's on the street.
> Appreciate your responses and comments. Thanx!
>
> Cygnus
> The Bringer of Balance
Adam Payrot
living at home, but I've never had any problems. I have 2 amps in the
trunk, plus the spare tire and jack, and a few tools added in (recently, my
144-pc tool set), and I usually have a backpack w/ books plus my
girlfriend's. I've never had problems when shopping w/ my gf (they do tend
to get a lot of stuff), grocery shopping, etc etc. I plan on doing several
cross-country trips in it, once I get sufficient funds. I can drive for
hours on end in it w/o getting uncomfortable. There's not too many cars I
can say that about.
Oh, and I removed the A/C and power steering, and live in Texas. I still
find it as practical as ever ;-).
Adam Payrot
Leon van Dommelen <domm...@zmiata.net> wrote in message
news:olsodu80sq2utbjfh...@4ax.com...
Matthew Hunt
Adam Payrot <zmzm...@swbell.net> wrote:
> girlfriend's. I've never had problems when shopping w/ my gf (they do tend
> to get a lot of stuff), grocery shopping, etc etc. I plan on doing several
> cross-country trips in it, once I get sufficient funds.
Fair enough on the shopping, that doesn't surprise me. Best of luck
on packing light enough for a cross-country trip, although if it's
in warm weather, that cuts down on the volume of clothing you need.
My experience for a cross-state trip was that once I put my garment
bag flat in the trunk (necessary because I was going to a wedding),
there was no longer enough height to put my camera bag (the size of a
"bookbag" pack, but of course non-squashable) on top of it. I had to
borrow other luggage from my folks, and cut back on my gear. Also, my
tripod (quite heavy and large) had to go behind the seatbacks, which
makes me uneasy.
I also travel a lot by air, and in many cases fill up the del Sol's
trunk, which is much larger than the Miata's.
If your lifestyle doesn't require such things, then more power to
you. Traveling light is nice (especially when I managed about 10 days
in Europe for work and pleasure with only my daypack). Makes airports
less of a hassle.
> I can drive for hours on end in it w/o getting uncomfortable. There's
> not too many cars I can say that about.
Yeah, I'm happy in either my del Sol's seats or a Miata's more or
less indefinitely.
> Oh, and I removed the A/C and power steering, and live in Texas. I still
> find it as practical as ever ;-).
I'd be happy without P/S, but, man, I don't know how you do without
A/C. Just stink a lot? :-)
mike
scored
> big when they convinced American buyers that the cheaper-to-build and
> unbalanced FWD cars were better in low traction situations.
another nice feature of FWD at the time was (and is) no annoying huge
driveline hump going right down the middle of the car, hence more legroom
and the unibody can sit lower. with a low unibody and a high roof, voila-
chryslers most successful product, the minivan!
trying to attempt this with a RWD chassis is why the aerostar, previa,
astro, and mpv never did as well. the astro and mpv are still around and
still RWD, but they are also now marketing themselves to people who want a
small trucklike van- which is what they were all along.
sienna, odyssey, et.al are finally getting it right, 20 years later!
Per K. Nielsen
wrote:
>I'd be curious to hear from people who have a Miata as their only car
What do you want to hear?
My MX-5 is my only car - ever.
The only two times I needed to borrow a car was when I had to buy a
door for my apartment., and when I had to transport 8 wheels from one
end of the country to the other.
I've been on three week vacations in Italy with my girl friend, who
(of course) had to buy a load of stuff home for souvenirs. I even
managed to bring along my laptop and GPS for easy navigation.
Three days ago I picked up my the 28" tv from the seller.
Only peple who hasn't lived with it thinks the space is inadequate.
You will learn how to stuff more stuff into the trunk.
--
Per K. Nielsen
jchase
M Hum wrote:
>
>>91-95 MR2 turbo. my boss has one of these beauties. faster and better
>>handling than my GS-R. of course, he also has to park his during the
>>winter, being RWD. :)
>>
>
> Salt, sand and lots of snow is a reason to park a car in the winter,
> not RWD, The most fun EVER driving in the winter was my '72 240Z.
>
I drive my Miata as a daily commuter 52 weeks a year- Blizzak snow tires
and hardtop from November to March. It is immensely competent in the snow!
Joe
Silver '99
Jonny Hodgson
Matthew Hunt <m...@wopr.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:abifjb$b...@gap.cco.caltech.edu...
> In article <J23D8.13049$lC5.139...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
> Adam Payrot <zmzm...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
> > girlfriend's. I've never had problems when shopping w/ my gf (they do tend
> > to get a lot of stuff), grocery shopping, etc etc. I plan on doing several
> > cross-country trips in it, once I get sufficient funds.
> My experience for a cross-state trip was that once I put my garment
> bag flat in the trunk (necessary because I was going to a wedding),
> there was no longer enough height to put my camera bag (the size of a
> "bookbag" pack, but of course non-squashable) on top of it. I had to
> borrow other luggage from my folks, and cut back on my gear. Also, my
> tripod (quite heavy and large) had to go behind the seatbacks, which
> makes me uneasy.
I was seriously looking at buying an MX-5 as my next (only) car,
but that evaporated when I got a close look at one and figured
out that two archery kit boxes (mine and my g/f's) just weren't
going to fit in :-( As for my model race car stuff - well, I'd
probably manage if I never wanted to take a passenger to a race
meet, since most of it would probably fit in the passenger seat
and footwell.
A warm hatch is the new plan - there was a 100 bhp version of the
Pug 106; alternatively, the Mk7 Fiesta is reckoned to handle
quite sweetly :-)
Jonny
Per K. Nielsen
<jp_ho...@eRnEgMiOnVeEer.com> wrote:
> figured
>out that two archery kit boxes (mine and my g/f's) just weren't
>going to fit in :-(
You are right.
Odd sized luggage can be a problem, if you aren't willing to strap it
to the package shelf with the top down.
--
Per K. Nielsen
tooloud
news:udp2bi...@corp.supernews.com...
> Test drive both of them and then you can decide. We did.
> We bought a Del Sol, well actually 2 of them. The most important
> differences for me was the Del Sol's larger trunk and inside space, better
> overall handling
See, you just proved that you didn't actually drive a Miata. I've never
heard the del Sol accused of being a better handler--ever.
> and the availabilty of a more powerful engine without
> having to go to the aftermarket.
> The Miata will just barely outform the 100 HP Del Sol S model, which isn't
> saying much.
> The Miata and the 125 HP Del Sol Si are about equivalent overall.
> The 160 HP Del Sol Vtec buries the Miata in all aspects.
Well, except the most important one.
<snip>
tooloud
In a roundabout way, you just proved my point.
tooloud
Insecure would be if I purchased a lesser car because it's got a bigger
trunk.
Adam Payrot
> A/C. Just stink a lot? :-)
It's rather easy. Drop top, and drive. Best A/C in the world ;-). I have
rarely used it since I bought the car, mainly to de-fog the windshield
(Fog-X will help that I hope) and on those 105* days when stopped at a
light. As soon as I was driving, that A/C would be turned off. It's really
not so bad if you're moving constantly, sitting in stop-and-go traffic
(something I do maybe 2 times every other month) would be hell. Humidity
plays a big role here on how hot it is/feels. I was basically forced to do
this as my condenser had a hole punched into it (long story, just read
"self-mechanics") and didn't have much money, and the extra weight savings
doesn't hurt either.
Adam Payrot
Leon van Dommelen
tooloud
<snip>
> >> This process requires that there be an acceleration on the bottom of
> >> the car, and completely slipping tires do not provide one. Once you
have
> >> some acceleration, weight transfer occurs which aids further
acceleration.
> >> Therein lies the acceleration advantage of RWD; under normal
circumstances
> >> there is always some traction available at the rear wheels, so total
> >> slippage does not occur, and weight transfer quickly kicks in.
> >
> >In a roundabout way, you just proved my point.
>
> Hum. This had to be tooloud. Arguing is futile. BTDT. ;)
Well, do *you* want to explain to him where the weight goes when
accelerating a RWD vehicle? ;)
Matthew seems to be under the impression that Miatas either don't move at
all when the gas is pressed, or that the tires are liquefying because of the
raw power. Any Miata owner can probably tell you that neither is correct.
> Leon
> --
> Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
> REMOVE THE "z"s -> domm...@zmiata.net www.dommelen.net
>
> EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
--
Spider
> In article <73da2590.02051...@posting.google.com>,
> Spider <beelz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based on
> > > very practical reasons.
> >
> > Sports cars and two-seaters?!? Hardly.
>
> Some of us do... remember, practicality is a continuum, not a "you have
> it or you don't."
I was commenting more on the phrase "very practical." A minivan is
"very practical," while a two-seater might only be practical in some
situations. If you have a fixed set of criteria, and do not foresee
ever needing to get beyond those criteria, then a Miata might be "very
practical." I would use the term "flexibility" as a measure of a
vehicle's practicality - how many different uses can you put this
vehicle to? A little red wagon might be at the bottom of the scale
(if you define it as a vehicle,) bicycle, motorcycle, up to
two-seaters, all the way up to minivans or SUVs. This leaves out
commerical vehicles, and vehicles not intended for road use (boats,
etc.)
> My del Sol is just big enough for me; I basically never
> need to carry more than two people, and the trunk is almost always big
> enough. Speaking from experience, this is not true of the Miata, which
> has only half the trunk volume.
Since those are your only practicality criteria, then it seems that
you have a very practicle vehicle. :)
Add a dog and/or a child (requiring a safety seat.) What was once a
practical vehicle now becomes a "toy." Or a "commuter." Neither the
Del Sol nor the Miata is terribly flexible with regard to gear or
occupants. One might consider these criteria to be almost the reason
for automobile ownership. :)
> So, my del Sol is completely practical for me, but the Miata would not
> be. Two cars, say a Miata and a WRX, would also be an excellent way
> to meet my needs, but I can't afford two cars and only have room for one.
Merely a matter of degree of practicality. They are very close on the
continuum, above a motorcycle, but below a sport coupe or sedan. Like
the Solara or SC300/400, for example(s).
My long-winded way of saying that practicality falls down on the list
of the reasons folks buy two-seaters, IN GENERAL. Not in all cases,
but I would guess in most cases. I would bet that there are
relatively few folks like yourself that own a two-seater as their only
vehicle.
Just a point of view, that's all,
Spider
pAUL
> driven both.
>
Then go buy the damn thing
.
pAUL
^O^O^
.
The preservation of liberty depends upon the intellectual and moral
character of the people. As long as knowledge and virtue are diffused
generally among the body of a nation, it is impossible they should be
enslaved....John Adams
.
It also helps if they're armed....pAUL
.
Myk
>Miata appeals to the 50+ crowd whom collectively have more hair on their
>chin than the top of their head.
Guess your well known theory is pretty shot. The Miata is one of the
few vehiles that completely transcends both age and gender. I see
more 20-35 year olds (guys and girls) driving it than those over 50
and I live in the retirement state. If you look at where those sales
figures go it is pretty much a flat line from 25 year old to the 55
year old bracket and spread evenly among them with tapering above and
below those ages. The Del Sol appeals pretty much to the 16-25 year
old crowd and you rarely find buyers over that. Then again, most
buyers over 25 are not going to go for a car that's long since out of
production unless there is something special about it.
>Miata is a convertible in the very traditional sense, even down to the
>lack of power. Del Sol doesn't have the same snob appeal.
That's funny, my '88 911 Cabrio certainly wasn't down on power and it
was a convertible. The new Jaguars, BMW's (especially the M3
Convertible) are not down on power. What exactly are you smoking when
you come up with this crap off the top of your head?
>LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based on
>very practical reasons. Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when people
>outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
If it is such a superior purchase, where the hell is it now? Why isn't
it still in production? Why did the 'crappy Mazda' sell over half a
million units in the first 7 years and is still continuing to sell
well?
The Miata is not a niche car. The Miata is a roadster that literally
gave rebirth to the market. The Del Sol is Honda's attempt to cash in
on the market and it failed. Miserably! It's gone and frankly it's not
much of a loss.
Btw, if the Del Sol is such a wonderful 'convertible' then why the
hell do you almost NEVER see the targa off? The only ones that ever
take it out are the 16-18 year olds.
_______________________________
Every Honda has been equipped with Traction Control
for the last several years. It is marked A/C which must
stand for "Active Control." Apparely the only thing that
happens when you turn it on and it kills what little torque
the car has making it impossible to spin the wheels.
Myk
wrote:
>So, my del Sol is completely practical for me, but the Miata would not
>be. Two cars, say a Miata and a WRX, would also be an excellent way
>to meet my needs, but I can't afford two cars and only have room for one.
Funny.. the WRX Sedan will eventually be my next car (or perhaps a
used 330Ci).
>I'd be curious to hear from people who have a Miata as their only car
>(and don't have trivial access to another car from a family member, etc.).
That would be me. I had a '93 Grand Cherokee and the Miata. I averaged
about 3000 miles a year in the Grand when it was used to two two jet
ski's around. That's the ONLY time I ever used it! Grocery shopping,
Home Depot runs, etc. it was always the Miata that went. I since sold
one ski so I use the Miata to tow the ski and occasionally the bike
(from Fla to NC/TN. So far 8 trips with that pair and no problems). As
soon as I sold the ski, the Jeep went too! I have yet to need the Jeep
again. My other form of transport? An R6. It's a little less practical
than the Miata. :) My roomate's only car is also a Miata. (At one
point it was two Miata's, 3 motorcycles and a jet ski. Six
2-seaters!). Unless you have offspring or carry a lot of people you
simply don't need more.
I won't mention that I moved an entire apartment in a couple trips
with my old '88 Supercharged MR2 and it had less room than the Miata!
>With a del Sol as my only car, I would say I find the cargo space a
>problem about once a year; the last time was when my gf and I needed
>to drive home from LAX after Christmas... and she had received a new
>luggage set as a Christmas gift!
I'd just put the roof down, put a towel over the window, throw a quick
chord of twine/rope through the latches to make sure it didn't go
anywhere and come home. :) As long as you don't have the Targa stowed
the Del Sol has more trunk space.. though that damned storage rack
inside eats a bit of room.
Myk
wrote:
>The Miata will just barely outform the 100 HP Del Sol S model, which isn't
>saying much.
If you looked at how rediculously low Honda geared the engines you'd
see why. ;)
>The Miata and the 125 HP Del Sol Si are about equivalent overall.
My '93 1.6 liter that came with a whopping 116hp (probably at about
120hp now with the mild boltons) has never had any problem playing
games iwth the 125 and usually leaving it. It's a match in the
straights ane handily beats it in handling and that was before I
tweaked the suspension. Now it's not even close. (Yes, you can do the
Del Sol suspension as well)
>The 160 HP Del Sol Vtec buries the Miata in all aspects.
In straight line only, certainly not in handling and DEFINITELY not in
fun-factor! Then again, I'd prefer the more fun car over the faster
car any time save for when there is money on the line in a race and
since I don't bet...
Myk
<jp_ho...@eRnEgMiOnVeEer.com> wrote:
>I was seriously looking at buying an MX-5 as my next (only) car,
>but that evaporated when I got a close look at one and figured
>out that two archery kit boxes (mine and my g/f's) just weren't
>going to fit in :-(
The parcel shelf may be big enough unless you are using recurves. :)
> As for my model race car stuff - well, I'd
>probably manage if I never wanted to take a passenger to a race
>meet, since most of it would probably fit in the passenger seat
>and footwell.
I usually have no problems with my HPI Nitro R/C cars or the Raptor
Helicopter. I also have a faux floor with two amps under it and a
12-disc changer that takes up about 1/3rd of the trunk space off the
top. :)
Myk
wrote:
>Well, do *you* want to explain to him where the weight goes when
>accelerating a RWD vehicle? ;)
>
>Matthew seems to be under the impression that Miatas either don't move at
>all when the gas is pressed, or that the tires are liquefying because of the
>raw power. Any Miata owner can probably tell you that neither is correct.
Gee, I have never had a problem with it during many snow-ski trips
where I'd come back down and find a foot of fresh powder. Even with my
Yokohama AVSi's (original tires back when I lived in Seattle) which
are supposedly horrible in the snow I NEVER got stuck. Just get it
rolling smoothly and you are fine, then you drift around lots of
corners while having an absolute blast. I can not recall a single
white-knuckle moment as a result of the car or the tires in the snow
but I can recall plenty when front wheel drive vehicles (and the odd
4x4 for that matter) where sliding at me out of control.
Besides, its nice and rewarding to roll on the throttle in the snow
and rally your way around town with full opposite lock and lots of
roostertails! :)
Guess you can't do that in a Del Sol.... at least not without yankin
on the E-brake.
Jonny Hodgson
Myk <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message news:kp6tducj0f1j9sfnd...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 May 2002 14:10:32 +0100, "Jonny Hodgson"
> <jp_ho...@eRnEgMiOnVeEer.com> wrote:
>
> >I was seriously looking at buying an MX-5 as my next (only) car,
> >but that evaporated when I got a close look at one and figured
> >out that two archery kit boxes (mine and my g/f's) just weren't
> >going to fit in
>
> The parcel shelf may be big enough unless you are using recurves. :)
We are :-( Plus I'd be really uncomfortable about having two kit
boxes behind our heads, in case I need to stop hard.
> > As for my model race car stuff - well, I'd
> >probably manage if I never wanted to take a passenger to a race
> >meet, since most of it would probably fit in the passenger seat
> >and footwell.
>
> I usually have no problems with my HPI Nitro R/C cars or the Raptor
> Helicopter. I also have a faux floor with two amps under it and a
> 12-disc changer that takes up about 1/3rd of the trunk space off the
> top. :)
I'd have to buy a smaller pit table, I think, but apart from that
I reckon I'd manage (as I said). But never mind, maybe I'll get
an RX-8 in a few years' time... :-)
Jonny
Leon van Dommelen
>Well, do *you* want to explain to him where the weight goes when
>accelerating a RWD vehicle? ;)
No, since *his* post showed he understands this well, while *your* post
showed you did not. ;)
Marc
>I have a 97 Del Sol VTEC. I also test drove a 96 Miata and I chose the sol
>over the Miata in a heartbeat.
I've driven both and chose the Miata in a heartbeat. RWD. The way
that changes how the car handles is all I needed.
Marc
For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
Marc
>> I wouldn't really call it a fact. I'd say the fact is that automakers
>scored
>> big when they convinced American buyers that the cheaper-to-build and
>> unbalanced FWD cars were better in low traction situations.
>
>another nice feature of FWD at the time was (and is) no annoying huge
>driveline hump going right down the middle of the car, hence more legroom
>and the unibody can sit lower.
That's a nice idea, but every FWD car I can recall has a hump.
Marc
>I'd be curious to hear from people who have a Miata as their only car
>(and don't have trivial access to another car from a family member, etc.).
3 years with a Miata. The only times I had a problem with space, I'd
have had a problem in any 4-door that didn't have folding seats.
Since I was able to objectively look at past usage (rather than the
SUV morons that know they've never been off road in their life and
only needed a truck once in the past five years to haul a mattress,
but somehow think that the purchase of a new car will suddenly change
their lifestyle), I realized that I don't have heavy hauling needs,
and I was able to buy a Miata as my only car. It was bought when I
had no convenient access to any other vehicles.
Marc
What good is the A/C? It dissipates long before it is useful, unless
you are in stop-and-stop traffic.
mike
"Marc" <whin...@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:g0npdu4br3v8ufl5h...@4ax.com...
not nearly as big as the tranny/driveline hump on a RWD, the hummer being an
extreme example. the hump in a FWD car is much smaller and is usually where
the exhaust system runs, to keep the floorpan low without scraping the
exhaust.
mike
> 3 years with a Miata. The only times I had a problem with space, I'd
> have had a problem in any 4-door that didn't have folding seats.
true. when i was looking for a car, i wanted a small one with lots of useful
space. the civic hatch fit the bill.
>
> Since I was able to objectively look at past usage (rather than the
> SUV morons that know they've never been off road in their life and
> only needed a truck once in the past five years to haul a mattress,
hell, im sure you could strap a mattress on a miata, at least for a short
distance. i put a couch in (on, really) my rabbit convertible.
tooloud
I drove a '91 Buick Regal in high school, and it had an almost imperceptable
hump. It was small enough that there was just one big floor mat in the back
instead of two.
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
--
Stephen F.
"Ryan" <lum...@lummer.com> wrote in message
news:AdxC8.4488$bV3.1...@news0.telusplanet.net...
>
> "fbloogyuds" <flo...@accessone.com> wrote in message
> news:udl57h5...@corp.supernews.com...
> > "fbloogyuds" <flo...@accessone.com> wrote
> > > The Del Sol is a mid engine car,
> >
> > It appears I'm wrong. My brain must have been thinking Toyota MR2.
> >
> > Floyd
>
> now *there's* what you should buy!!!
>
> 91-95 MR2 turbo. my boss has one of these beauties. faster and better
> handling than my GS-R. of course, he also has to park his during the
> winter, being RWD. :)
>
Except the rear suspension was absolutely evil until they reworked it in
about 1994 or 1995. The first years of the 2nd generation MR2, especially
the Turbo, were foul-handling hot rods that even the enthiusiasts at the car
magazines had a hard time coming to grips with. After the suspension
redesign, things improved drastically.
Stephen
George Macdonald
>On Fri, 10 May 2002 21:57:16 -0500, "Pankoski" <pank...@ccrtc.com>
>wrote:
>
>>The Miata will just barely outform the 100 HP Del Sol S model, which isn't
>>saying much.
>
>If you looked at how rediculously low Honda geared the engines you'd
>see why. ;)
Because they can! They have an engine which is useable with that gearing.
>>The Miata and the 125 HP Del Sol Si are about equivalent overall.
>My '93 1.6 liter that came with a whopping 116hp (probably at about
>120hp now with the mild boltons) has never had any problem playing
>games iwth the 125 and usually leaving it. It's a match in the
>straights ane handily beats it in handling and that was before I
>tweaked the suspension. Now it's not even close. (Yes, you can do the
>Del Sol suspension as well)
>
>>The 160 HP Del Sol Vtec buries the Miata in all aspects.
>In straight line only, certainly not in handling and DEFINITELY not in
>fun-factor! Then again, I'd prefer the more fun car over the faster
>car any time save for when there is money on the line in a race and
>since I don't bet...
Redefining handling for you RWD tail-waggers:
<http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=110&pageid=4067>. Read it and
weep.
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
David Hillman
Stephen F. <ferg...@NOSSPAMbluewin.ch> wrote:
>Except the rear suspension was absolutely evil until they reworked it in
>about 1994 or 1995. The first years of the 2nd generation MR2, especially
>the Turbo, were foul-handling hot rods that even the enthiusiasts at the car
>magazines had a hard time coming to grips with. After the suspension
>redesign, things improved drastically.
Spoken like someone with either very little experience or very little
clue.
If you follow one simple rule and align it properly, you'll never spin
an early mk2 unless you want to.
Do not lift suddenly or brake while cornering near the limit. If you
do, you will rotate the car. This is very useful in many situations,
which is why the suspension was originally designed as it was. Sadly,
too many ham-fisted "enthusiasts" threw them at the scenery after
over-cooking a corner and pronounced it the car's fault, instead of
blaming themselves.
--
D a v i d H i l l m a n
hil...@enteract.com
Ron Loewy
> On 10 May 2002 23:41:45 GMT, m...@wopr.caltech.edu (Matthew Hunt)
> wrote:
>
> >So, my del Sol is completely practical for me, but the Miata would not
> >be. Two cars, say a Miata and a WRX, would also be an excellent way
> >to meet my needs, but I can't afford two cars and only have room for one.
>
> Funny.. the WRX Sedan will eventually be my next car (or perhaps a
> used 330Ci).
I assume that you are going to keep the Miata, and if this is the case - why
not get the WRX Wagon. It is a lot more practical and from what I
understand - cheaper to insure. I doubt that you will feel the difference
between the sedan and the wagon in 99.9% of the driving you will be doing.
> I'd just put the roof down, put a towel over the window, throw a quick
> chord of twine/rope through the latches to make sure it didn't go
> anywhere and come home. :) As long as you don't have the Targa stowed
> the Del Sol has more trunk space.. though that damned storage rack
> inside eats a bit of room.
While we do have an Impreza wagon as my wife's car - we find ourselve often
at Home Depot with the Miata. I was there, bought something long (can't even
remember what it was). I was trying to fit it in the trunk when a woman in
an Explorer was trying to be cute by telling me that this is a cute car but
it is not worth much in real life. I asked my wife to drop-down the roof,
gave her whatever it was to hold, told the helpful Explorer lady that I have
limitless headroom to store stuff and drove away...
Ron.
Lee Cao
"Spider" <beelz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73da2590.02051...@posting.google.com...
> "Lee Cao" <lig...@lee-SPAM-ME-NOT-cao.com> wrote in message
news:<abgqgs$3p9$1...@lore.csc.com>...> > news:p5anduclum0afn6qr...@4ax.com...
> > > On Fri, 10 May 2002 01:19:24 GMT, "John"
> > > <johns...@nospammingyahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >False... the engines in the front. Better for weather.
> > >
> > > Hah! More like cheaper to assemble.
> >
> > *shrug*
> >
> > Fact remains it's better for low-traction conditions.
>
> *Fact?*
>
> Are you sure?
>
> "Better" is a subjective term.
>
> Spider
I lived next to a pretty large hill in Maryland for about 10 years. By the
collection of Mustangs, Camaros, Crown Vicks, 2WD trucks and Caprices on the
bottom of the hill every time there was more than 5 inches of snow on the
ground, I'd say either front wheel drive is better for low-traction
conditions, or RWD car owners are horrible drivers. What do you think?
"Better" in this context is simply imprecise, not subjective. I can't very
well give you an exact number for how much FWD cars are better in low
traction conditions, so I've simply used "Better" as an indication. I am
not looking to convince you in particular.
Lee Cao
Lee Cao
"Spider" <beelz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:73da2590.02051...@posting.google.com...
> "Lee Cao" <lig...@lee-SPAM-ME-NOT-cao.com> wrote in message
> >
> > LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars
based on
> > very practical reasons.
>
You sports car and two-seater owners don't involve practical considerations
in their purchase? Why do Miatas bother to have a trunk then?
> > Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when people
> > outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
>
> Miata a niche car? As compared to the Del Sol? Maybe if you would
> review the sales figures for the two cars, you might discover which
> car was actually a niche car, and which is more mainstream.
No one said the Miata is a niche car as compared to a Del Sol. However, the
Miata does have its own niche, and there are people out side of that niche,
and some of those people like the Del Sol better. You follow?
> I am guessing that you are reading this from r.a.m.honda, which would
> explain your interesting position on the two cars.
And you are reading this from? In any case, I don't see how my reading this
from r.a.m.h necessarily means that I can't be objective.
> Spider
Lee Cao
Per K. Nielsen
<lig...@lee-SPAM-ME-NOT-cao.com> wrote:
>I lived next to a pretty large hill in Maryland for about 10 years. By the
>collection of Mustangs, Camaros, Crown Vicks, 2WD trucks and Caprices on the
>bottom of the hill every time there was more than 5 inches of snow on the
>ground, I'd say either front wheel drive is better for low-traction
>conditions, or RWD car owners are horrible drivers. What do you think?
I think you mentioned a bunch of laughable Detroit steel with a
horribly heavy front and a ridiculously light rear.
Not excactly a scientific test.
--
Per K. Nielsen
Lee Cao
> >Miata is a convertible in the very traditional sense, even down to the
> >lack of power. Del Sol doesn't have the same snob appeal.
> That's funny, my '88 911 Cabrio certainly wasn't down on power and it
> was a convertible. The new Jaguars, BMW's (especially the M3
> Convertible) are not down on power. What exactly are you smoking when
> you come up with this crap off the top of your head?
Sorry, bad choice of word on my part. I meant to say "convertible 2-seat
sportster" instead of just "convertible". I was thinking of the MGs.
> >LOL, as much as we would love to do otherwise, most people buy cars based
on
> >very practical reasons. Miata is a nitch car, so don't complain when
people
> >outside of the nitch find the Del Sol to be a superior purchase.
>
> If it is such a superior purchase, where the hell is it now? Why isn't
> it still in production? Why did the 'crappy Mazda' sell over half a
> million units in the first 7 years and is still continuing to sell
> well?
The Del Sol isn't in production because Honda didn't think it was economical
for them to continue to manufacture it. Are you disagreeing with the fact
that some people found the Del Sol to be a better purchase than the Miata?
Because that's the only claim I've made here regarding sales. And I
certainly didn't call the Miata crappy. An average of 70,000 cars a year
may be good for Mazda, but Honda is a much higher volume manufacturer. When
they wanted a style/flash/low-volume car to draw attention, they droped the
Del Sol and made the S2000.
> The Miata is not a niche car.
LOL. Okay, whatever you say man.
Lee Cao