Honda engines in GM cars
MtViewGuy
provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
In my opinion, this is a good deal for GM. Watch for future GM models
on both sides of the Atlantic to use derivatives of the 2.2 liter L-4
rated at 150 bhp and the 3.0 liter V6 rated at 200 bhp. Sounds like we
may see the 150 bhp engine in the successor to the Chevrolet
Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire twins.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
rm
joke???
gri...@my-deja.com
> Honda today announced they reached an agreement with General Motors to
> provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
For those of you who doubt this report here are the official stories
off of the news wire:
======================================================================
FOCUS-Honda links hands with GM on engines
(Recasts with analysts comments)
By Edwina Gibbs
TOKYO, Dec 21 (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co [`HND.TK] said on Tuesday
it will supply engines to General Motors [`GM] and may cooperate
further with the U.S. giant in a deal which helps fill some technology
holes but does not infringe on its independence. Honda said it would
supply GM with low emission gasoline engines and buy diesel engines
from Isuzu Motors [`IZM.TK], a GM group company.
Other areas of cooperation, including technology development,
recycling and parts procurement would be explored.
Honda President Hiroyuki Yoshino insisted, however, that there
would be no exchange of equity and that his company would remain
independent.
"Honda is firmly committed to an independent path. This
relationship will strengthen our ability to maintain this course," he
told a news conference.
He added that the deal had been prompted by GM's request for
Honda's engines and not the other way around.
Analysts said they were taking Honda's declaration of independence
at face value and did not expect the blue-chip carmaker to become
either an integral part of the GM team or U.S. automaker's aggressive
expansionary plans in Asia.
"It's essentially not much more than an agreement to supply
engines. It is not as though Honda has decided to become part of the GM
group or that they really need each other," said Masato Ogasawara,
analyst at the Daiwa Institute of Research.
The stock market showed little reaction to the deal, with Honda
shares closing up 30 yen or 0.70 percent at 3,890.
This spring the shares rose to a record 5,880, but they later eased
in part on worries that the strong yen would translate into lower
earnings from its U.S. operations.
GM in the past two years has entered into or strengthened equity
ties with three second-tier Japanese automakers, including a $1.4
billion purchase of a 20 percent stake in Subaru maker Fuji Heavy
Industries [`FJH.TK] announced less than two weeks ago.
It also has a 15-year-old car assembly joint venture with Japanese
auto giant Toyota Motor Corp [`TOY.TK] in California and has made a
proposal to buy South Korea's ailing Daewoo Motors.
GM TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING
Unlike Renault SA [`RENF.EU]'s purchase of a controlling minority
stake in debt-burdened Nissan Motor Co [`NSM.TK], financially stable
Honda is not seen as needing -- at least not yet -- to slide under
another's umbrella.
But in an industry under intense pressure to produce cheaper and
cleaner cars, Honda's tie-up with GM will tidy up some of its weaker
areas, such as diesel engines.
Others include the development of fuel cells -- a cleaner form of
power widely seen as replacing combustion engines in the decades ahead.
"They are letting somebody else in the heavy lifting and they are
tagging along in the hope that there is something else that they can
use," said Stephen Usher, analyst at Jardine Fleming Securities.
For GM, which unlike Ford Motor Co [`F] is seen as more willing to
do deals that do not necessarily involve full control of a company or
even a capital alliance, the deal is helps fill holes in its technology
line-up.
Through Subaru, General Motors has gained greater access to more
four wheel drive and fuel efficient automatic transmission technology
while through minivehicle Suzuki Motor Corp [`SUZ.TK] it has garnered
new small car technology and access to developing economies in Asia.
((Tokyo Equities Desk +81 3 3432 9404
tokyo.equit...@reuters.com)) Tue Dec 21 08:29:57 1999 -GMT-
pnac (nT113108) = 1 08:29
======================================================================
Europeans mull implications of Honda-GM motor deal
FRANKFURT, Dec 21 (Reuters) - An engine-supply accord between Japan's
Honda Motor Co [`HND.TK] and General Motors Corp [`GM] narrows the
options for German car makers seeking partners in Asia, some analysts
said on Tuesday.
But others cautioned against reading too much into a deal which
mainly reflects a trend toward pragmatic cooperative ventures which do
not necessarily presage equity tie-ups.
Honda will supply GM with low emission gasoline engines and buy
diesel engines from GM's Japanese affiliate Isuzu Motors [`IZM.TK] as
part of a deal announced on Tuesday.
The two companies said they would explore other possibilities for
cooperation but Honda stressed that it would stay independent.
The German press recently reported that DaimlerChrysler <DCXGn.DE>
was interested in Honda after having passed up a possible deal with
Nissan Motor Corp [`NSM.TK] earlier in the year because it had its
hands full with the Chrysler merger.
Metzler analyst Juergen Pieper said Honda's deal with GM was a blow
for Germany's big car makers, which were falling behind in the search
for partnerships in Asia, one of the regions expected to show the
fastest car sales growth in coming years.
"Honda would have been the ideal cooperation partner for
DaimlerChrysler or Volkswagen AG [`VOWR.EU], which are both looking for
Asian partners," he said.
"Honda's a little smaller than VW and DaimlerChrysler, a strong
performer in North America and a deal wouldn't involve restructuring
charges because it's profitable - but too small to go on on its own
without a partner," he said.
VW and Toyota Motor Corp [`TOY.TK] are working on navigational
systems and recycling projects and are discussing the possibility of
standardising some components, but Toyota would be the senior partner
in any merger or European alliance.
"The smaller Japanese companies are not that interesting, and now
GM is in the lead position with Honda and has a better chance to make a
deal," he said.
A Paris-based analyst said the GM-Honda deal, following on GM's
other moves in Asia, including its interest in Daewoo Motor, part of
the troubled Daewoo Group [DWGR.CN], would shift the spotlight back
onto potential European alliances.
"I think this will revive speculation in Europe, focusing
particularly on Fiat SpA [`FIATI.EU] and PSA Peugeot Citroen
[`PSAF.EU]," the analyst said.
Goldman Sachs auto analyst Keith Hayes said the Honda-GM engine
deal would allow the companies to get to know each other better. "But I
don't think an engine deal precludes anyone else from stepping in if
they wish to," he said.
He noted that Chrysler had concluded a big engine venture with
Bayerische Motoren Werke [`BMWR.EU] in Brazil in 1998 that did not stop
Daimler from taking over Chrysler the same year.
((Christine Tierney, Frankfurt Newsroom, tel +49 69 7565 1282,
frankfurt...@reuters.com)) Tue Dec 21 12:56:46 1999 -GMT- pnac
(nL21262001) = 1 12:56
Mel
96 Integra GS-R
98 Prelude SH
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
gri...@my-deja.com
> Honda today announced they reached an agreement with General Motors to
> provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
As a follow up to my first post here are some more news stories off the
wire in relation to this (some of this may be a bit redundant):
======================================================================
WSJ(12/21): GM, Honda In Engine Supply Deal >GM HMC
By Joseph B. White and Norihiko Shirouzu
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--General Motors Corp. and Honda Motor Co. have
struck an unusual deal that could put Honda-made V-6 engines and
transmissions in GM-branded cars in North America, and diesel motors
from GM's Isuzu Motors Ltd. affiliate in some Honda cars.
For fiercely independent Honda, which has stood aloof from the auto
industry's global consolidation dance, the agreement with GM marks a
significant turning point, even though GM won't be acquiring a stake in
the Japanese auto maker. In effect, Honda will be to GM what Intel
Corp. is to a computer maker like Dell Computer Corp. - a high-profile
supplier of the technology that makes the machine go. Honda officials
increasingly have positioned their company as the world's largest maker
of internal combustion engines.
Details of how many Honda engines GM will use, and how many Isuzu
diesels Honda will buy have yet to be worked out, company officials
said. GM and Honda said they hope to work out alliances in other areas,
such as vehicle recycling in Europe and parts procurement in various
markets.
GM and Honda officials didn't put a value on their agreement, saying
details are still under negotiation. Honda currently markets an ultra-
low-emission 3.2 liter V-6 in its 2000 model Acura TL sedans, but it
isn't clear that GM would get that engine, or a variant. If Honda
supplied 100,000 engines and transmissions a year to GM for five years,
that piece of the deal alone could be about $2 billion. Moreover, GM
and Honda could each save large sums in research and development
because they could purchase existing technology instead of inventing
their own.
For GM, the agreement is the second major deal with a Japanese auto
maker in less than a month, and gains the No. 1 U.S. auto maker another
important ally in the Asian market. Putting Honda engines in GM-branded
cars could be a delicate matter, because it suggests that GM couldn't
on its own match Honda's technology for high-performance, ultraclean V-
6 engines. But Arvin Mueller, head of GM's world-wide powertrain
operations, said GM isn't canceling any of its engine programs because
of the Honda agreements.
"Both companies have things they do well," Mr. Mueller said. GM, he
said, doesn't have to apologize for its technology, "but there are new
ways to skin the cat."
Deals in which one car maker supplies engines to another exist but
aren't common, particularly in the North American market. GM currently
buys vehicles from Japanese partners for sale as Chevrolets but doesn't
purchase engines for use in its mainstream North American models. Mr.
Mueller said GM would disclose that a vehicle contained a Honda engine.
Mr. Mueller indicated that GM would buy about 100,000 Honda V-6
engines and transmissions a year. Honda said it will use Isuzu diesels
mainly in Europe, where consumers are increasingly favoring that
technology because diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline.
By allying with Honda, GM is taking another big step away from its
historical strategy of self-reliance. Instead, GM is creating a web of
alliances, particularly in Asia, to try to stay ahead of rivals.
Earlier this month, GM struck a deal to buy 20% of Fuji Heavy
Industries Ltd. for $1 billion. The alliance with the maker of Subaru
cars offers GM a quick way to gain share in Asian markets and develop
carlike vehicles with four-wheel-drive systems. GM is negotiating to
acquire pieces of troubled Korean auto maker Daewoo Motor Corp. GM
already has a 10% stake in Japan's Suzuki Motor Co., and a 49% stake in
Isuzu.
In addition, GM has alliances with Toyota Motor Corp., Japan's
biggest auto maker, including one announced earlier this year to
cooperate in development of alternative fuel-engine technology such as
fuel cells.
Honda could well want to become GM's partner in fuel-cell development
too, because the company's sales volume is too small to easily support
the enormous costs of fuel-cell development.
One potential wild card for GM is the reaction of the United Auto
Workers union to a deal that could be seen as depriving their GM
members of the opportunity to build a new engine. Honda's North
American factories aren't represented by the UAW. GM officials said the
UAW had been informed of the agreement with Honda, but wouldn't say
whether the union sup- ported the deal. A UAW spokesman couldn't be
reached late yesterday for comment.
(END) DOW JONES NEWS 12-20-99
09:31 PM- - 09 31 PM EST 12-20-99
======================================================================
DJ Honda Motor -2: Committed To Remaining Independent
TOKYO (Dow Jones)--Honda Motor Co. (HMC or 7267) and General Motors
Corp. (GM) Tuesday said they have agreed to supply each other with
power trains as a first step in a relationship that may lead to future
cooperation in other areas.
Honda will supply GM with advanced V-6 Ultra Low Emission Vehicles
(ULEV) engines and automatic transmissions. Isuzu Motors Ltd. (J.IZM or
7202), a GM group company, will supply diesel engines to Honda for sale
mainly in Europe.
Specific terms and details of each engine agreement are yet to be
determined.
Honda and GM will also discuss collaboration on future technological
and business opportunities for mutual benefit, the companies said.
Potential opportunities include recycling in Europe and local parts
procurement in different regions of the world.
The agreement includes no equity stake by either company in the other
and each will continue independent technological development
activities, they said.
"GM has a well earned reputation for technological and industry
leadership. These discussions are a first step in exploring areas of
mutual interest that will benefit our customers in the future," said
Hiroyuki Yoshino, president and CEO of Honda Motors.
Yoshino said that Honda remains firmly committed to remaining
independent, adding that the new relationship will strengthen Honda's
ability to do so.
(MORE) DOW JONES NEWS 12-20-99
09:37 PM- - 09 37 PM EST 12-20-99
======================================================================
DOW JONES PIR PROFILE Honda Motor (N: HMC)
Makes automobiles, motorcycles, scooters, ATVs, farm and industrial
machin-
ery, out-board motors and portable generators. About 30% of its sales
from
U.S., trailed by Japan and U.K. Brands include Honda automobiles and
Shadow
and Magna motorcycles. 9/99 introduced Insight, a gasoline-electric
hybrid
vehicle. 8/99 an employee filed a suit against the co's America Mfg
unit.
HQ: Tokyo IR Phone: 310-783-3163
Analysts 2Q Rev $14.68B -1.4% YH 94
04/05/99
Cons Rec 2.5 (4a) 2Q Ern $614.89M ... YL 62 15/16
12/22/98
3Q EPS est None (1a) TTM Rev $59.36B -3.3% C 75
2Q EPS est None TTM Ern $2.74B ... Annual Dividend
None
1Q Op EPS 1.26 Dividend Yield
n.a.
01 EPS est 5.21 (1a) Industry Avg
3.49%
00 EPS est 5.57 (1a) 3-Yr Div Growth
16.26%
99 Op EPS 5.13 P/E Ratio 14.60 Ex Div Date
03/26/99
5-Yr EPS Growth 7.0% Industry Avg 8.52 Payable Date
n.a.
Industry Avg 7.6% Projected P/E 13.50 Split 5-for-1
04/03/89
Fiscal Yr End 03/31 Shrs Outstanding 487.2M 1-Yr Total Rtrn
10.45%
Book Value 36.05 Float 360.6M Industry Avg
27.00%
LT Debt/Equity 0.40 Market Cap $36.5B 3-Yr Total Rtrn
34.00%
Short Interest n.a. Avg Daily Vol 0.02M Industry Avg
53.53%
Current Ratio 1.06 5-Yr Total Rtrn
119%
Beta vs DJEI 0.74 Inst Hldgs 0.51% Industry Avg
110%
DJ Industry Code AUT 3 Month Change -0.15M
Insider Hldgs 26.00%
6 Month Change n.a.
TTM 1999 1998 1997
1996
Rev $59.36B $60.34B $58.10B $51.26B
$41.18B
Ern $2.74B $2.82B $2.34B $1.95B
$550.53M
Op EPS 5.63 6.06 5.18 4.40
1.41
Div 0.11 0.43 0.35 0.27
0.27
Shares 487.1M 487.2M 487.2M 487.2M
487.2M
High/Low 94.00/62.94 80.00/51.31 76.56/51.25 61.25/40.38
42.50/27.50
PE Range 24.14/10.94 15.45/9.91 17.42/11.66 43.54/28.70
34.83/22.54
(Updated 12/20 Sources: First Call, Market Guide For Help, use
N/HLP)
(END) Dow Jones Newswires 12-20-99
08:26 PM EST-0- 20 26 PM EST 12-20-99
Mista Bone
next generation of motors.
rm <.@.com> wrote in message <385f1aba...@news.atl.mindspring.com>...
>ummm...I assume this is somebody's idea of a sick and perverted
>joke???
>
>
>>Honda today announced they reached an agreement with General Motors to
>>provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
>>
Lee C
MtViewGuy wrote:
>
> Honda today announced they reached an agreement with General Motors to
> provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
>
> In my opinion, this is a good deal for GM. Watch for future GM models
> on both sides of the Atlantic to use derivatives of the 2.2 liter L-4
> rated at 150 bhp and the 3.0 liter V6 rated at 200 bhp. Sounds like we
> may see the 150 bhp engine in the successor to the Chevrolet
> Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire twins.
Hmmmm, wonder how this is going to go over with Toyota, since they
are doing the Toyota Cavalier project with GM...
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
--
Lee Cao - www.leecao.com
Speedy Fast
<rchuang...@slip.net.invalid> wrote:
>Honda today announced they reached an agreement with General Motors to
>provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
>
>In my opinion, this is a good deal for GM. Watch for future GM models
>on both sides of the Atlantic to use derivatives of the 2.2 liter L-4
>rated at 150 bhp and the 3.0 liter V6 rated at 200 bhp. Sounds like we
>may see the 150 bhp engine in the successor to the Chevrolet
>Cavalier/Pontiac Sunfire twins.
Hmm Honda will not supply 4-cylinder engines. Only the V6 powerplant.
Therefore keep dreaming about the Cavalier/Sunfire...unless Gm puts
the V6 Accord engine in it.
MtViewGuy
engine plant in Ohio to GM.
The likely immediate candidates to use this engine? Try Chevrolet
Malibu, Oldsmobile Alero, and cars based on this GM platform. Given the
smoothness and flat torque curve of this engine, it'll certainly be a
big improvement over the GM V6 engines it'll likely replace.
Gordon McGrew
Actually this looks pretty embarrassing for GM. I don't really see much down
side for Honda. The WSJ article mentioned Honda as being the world's largest
manufacturer of piston engines IIRC.
Saintor
autom. GM transmission that are installed on GM 3.8L.
TMIS
philosophy of mediocrity to Honda then Toyota here I come.
Saintor <nos...@at.all> wrote in message
news:hhX74.40651$X47.1...@quark.idirect.com...
Lloyd R. Parker
: I believe that Honda will supply the 3.0-liter 24-valve V6 from its
: engine plant in Ohio to GM.
:
: The likely immediate candidates to use this engine? Try Chevrolet
: Malibu, Oldsmobile Alero, and cars based on this GM platform. Given the
: smoothness and flat torque curve of this engine, it'll certainly be a
: big improvement over the GM V6 engines it'll likely replace.
Sounds right. GM seems committed to putting their 3.5 dohc V6 in the
next size up, Intrigue (and eventually Grand Prix, Regal, and Impala/Monte
Carlo). Or, they could use Honda's 3.5 for their minivans. They're
coming out with a new IL-6 for their trucks, from what I've read.
:
:
: * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
:
Dennis Brown
MtViewGuy <rchuang...@slip.net.invalid> wrote:
>Honda today announced they reached an agreement with General Motors to
>provide Honda engines to certain GM models.
Hmm... does this mean Toyota will stop selling the Chevy Cavalier
in Japan? (as if it "sells" now)
conANDave
news:83r8ci$4...@swift.cs.unc.edu...
: In article <08335b66...@usw-ex0107-043.remarq.com>,
Remember that Tv ad a few years for the Cavalier, touting how wonderful it
was because it was "shipping to Chevy dealers in America, it's also shipping
to Toyota dealers in japan. With a few changes, such as right hand drive."
It just came back.
Alex
symbol of America's industrial power. It's pretty embarassing to have
to purchase V6 engines (another American icon) from Japan.
On the other hand, Honda engines are known for their durability and
efficiency. I'm all for Honda's excellently engineered engines and
the new service philosophy from GM (e.g. Saturn's excellent customer
service).
Now if GM cars can have the fit and finish of Honda cars... :)
Alex
>
>Actually this looks pretty embarrassing for GM. I don't really see much down
>side for Honda. The WSJ article mentioned Honda as being the world's largest
>manufacturer of piston engines IIRC.
>
****************************************************
To email, please remove "nospam" from email address.
Lloyd R. Parker
: Yeah, I agree with you totally. GM is once and still for some THE
: symbol of America's industrial power. It's pretty embarassing to have
: to purchase V6 engines (another American icon) from Japan.
All the Honda V6s GM will buy are made in the US.
OTOH, GM is putting engines from Germany in Saturns; why aren't the "Buy
American" folks up in arms about this?
Phil Palmer
engines for but GM makes a few very durable engines. Now if they could get a
handle on their fit and finish.
Alex wrote:
> Yeah, I agree with you totally. GM is once and still for some THE
> symbol of America's industrial power. It's pretty embarassing to have
> to purchase V6 engines (another American icon) from Japan.
>
Pars
Phil Palmer wrote:
> GM 4.3 V6 is a great engine. I am not sure what the application GM needs Honda's
> engines for but GM makes a few very durable engines. Now if they could get a
> handle on their fit and finish.
The 4.3 Votec is a truck. It's an ancient engine that's been improved
greatly over the years.
GM's V6 are work engine ment for pulling, not racing. My guess is that
their northstar derivative is too expensive for the regular buyer and
they're getting Honda's engine at a deal.
Pars