More air = less torque?
Bruce Robertson
GSR, but I've heard some opinions that feeding the engine more air is only
beneficial at very high rpm and will actually rob it of some low-rpm torque.
Since one thing the GSR doesn't have enough of is low-rpm torque, I'd like
to know if that's true. Any opinions?
Bruce
Hondas R A Joke and R Slow POS
little engine. WIth a 5.0 you could care less if you lose a little low end.
You will never miss it. You have to take every little bit you can get with a
HOnda
~Brian~
"My Honda is fast, I broke deep into the 15's!!!!!!!"
"Yeah, but my engine has more hp per liter than yours! That is all that
matters, right?"
"That doesn't matter! The Honda is still faster because V-Tec breaks the laws
of physics!"
Bruce Robertson
you even in a NG for Honda owners if you drive a Mustang and hate Japanese
cars? Does it bother you that other people may not share your taste in
cars?
For my part, I like my car, though it does have its limitations. It's much
more reliable than the two American cars I've had *personal* experience with
(Yeah, I know you'll say that statistically American cars are catching up
with the imports in built quality and reliability, but statistics are
meaningless and easily manipulated.) and its ride is much more suited to my
driving style. That said, I couldn't care less what car you or anyone else
drives. If you think Mustangs are the only cars for you, great, go and get
yourself another one. Of course, Camaro and Firebird owners woud tell you
that your baby is an ugly, underpowered, gripless clunker, but that's
another story. The point is, enjoy your car and let me enjoy mine. If you
don't have anything helpful to say, piss off.
Bruce
"Hondas R A Joke and R Slow POS" <bria...@aol.comHondaSux> wrote in
message news:20000320180250...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
SFC174
The answer to your question is - "it depends" ;-)
What it depends on is which parts you choose. For your purposes, avoid the
following:
- straight through mufflers
- tubing size bigger than 2.25" (or 57-60mm)
- 4-1 headers
- Headers with primary tubes larger than 1.5-1.625"
With a good 4-1 header and properly constructed chambered exhaust with a
resonator (you don't want that buzzy tone), you will start picking up hp
from as early as 1500-2000 rpm. You may notice a touch of hesitation on
initial throttle tip in as you are getting more air moving, but you quickly
learn to compensate. With a proper header/exhaust and cold air intake you
can move from mid/low 15 second time slips to high 14 second time slips
(that may not be your thing, but it gives you an idea of the performance
bump).
Iceman and AEM intakes will create a nice 5-6 lbs-ft bump around 3000-3500
rpm which is right where you drive normally. A DC 4-2-1 header with exhaust
will boost power nicely from 3000-5000 and continue to make good power up
top.
Hope that helps.
SFC
Bruce Robertson wrote in message ...
Armond Matevosian
>
> I wanted to put an aftermarket header and cold air intake on my '94 Integra
> GSR, but I've heard some opinions that feeding the engine more air is only
> beneficial at very high rpm and will actually rob it of some low-rpm torque.
> Since one thing the GSR doesn't have enough of is low-rpm torque, I'd like
> to know if that's true. Any opinions?
>
> Bruce
I believe to develop more torque you need velocity...to develop power
you need volume. More air = more power because there is more mixture
for combustion. Faster air has more kinetic energy.
Crush ©
Joke and R Slow POS) wrote:
>Yes, you will lose some low end. That is what sucks about having such a dinky
>little engine. WIth a 5.0 you could care less if you lose a little low end.
>You will never miss it. You have to take every little bit you can get with a
Great point.
___
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?? (MSRP=$17k)
www.geocities.com/b3nj3rm4n/rearleft.jpg
The Vtec Reality Check
http://members.home.net/crush/reality-check
Over 45,300 people educated!
Honda Civic vs. Ford Mustang FAQ
http://members.home.net/crush
Smart ->Clint Law, Dennis Kuo, Ryan R, Eric, Newbie Steve, Brian Cho, interrupt
Flawed ->ConANDave, mike, edscholl, Andrew, nelson, sam...@my-deja.com
Marcus Taylor
to tell everyone that you thought this was a great point? If it is such a
great point don't you think people would know that? I think it's swell that
you have an opinion, but if you don't have anything more helpful to say than
'Great Point', couldn't you just save it?
Some of your more recent posts have me worrying about you, Crush. When I
first came to this newsgroup, I thought you were a valuable member, because
you often pointed out mistakes in people's reasoning or facts. But now you
fill the newsgroup with wandering diatribes and useless posts that say
little more than 'Great point' or 'Exactly' or things that really don't
require a new post.
This isn't really a newsgroup for you to whine about how much you hate
Hondas and wish you had some car other than a Civic. This is a newsgroup
for sharing useful facts and tidbits about Honda, the Honda family of
vehicles, and related topics. If someone posts on here and asks for
recommendations of a car they should buy, and you want to tell them some
brand other than Honda, and why that car is better, then that's great...
that's probably just the information that they were looking for. If someone
posts something that is totally inaccurate, or just plain stupid, and you
want to show them the error of their ways, that's wonderful. But if you
can't add something useful to the newsgroup, couldn't you find something
better to do with your time? I'm not trying to flame you here. I'm just
asking that you be the Crush I used to know. The one that offered useful
advice when someone entered a sincere post. The one that corrected
inaccurate facts to the best of your ability. The one who might require a
sense of humor to bear, but generally had a valid point in the majority of
his posts. That's the Crush I wish were still here.
Marcus.
Crush © <-cru...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:38e60112...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
frobozz
<marc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, Crush, did you really think it was required for you
>to tell everyone that you thought this was a great point? If it is such a
>great point don't you think people would know that? I think it's swell that
>you have an opinion, but if you don't have anything more helpful to say than
>'Great Point', couldn't you just save it?
>
>Some of your more recent posts have me worrying about you, Crush. When I
>first came to this newsgroup, I thought you were a valuable member
You thought Crush was a valuable member? Hmm, now I'm worrying about
YOU. ;-)
Crush ©
>Iceman and AEM intakes will create a nice 5-6 lbs-ft bump around 3000-3500
>rpm which is right where you drive normally. A DC 4-2-1 header with exhaust
>will boost power nicely from 3000-5000 and continue to make good power up
>top.
How much milage does one typically lose with these kinds of exhaust,
header and intake mods?
SFC174
Under heavy throttle usage, mileage may go down similarly (more hp means
more fuel burned). A properly modified normally aspirated engine, assuming
you haven't increased displacement, will be able to return very similar
mileage to stock - even with hp increases in the 30-40% range.
SFC
Crush © <-cru...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
<38e6cfc2...@news1.on.sympatico.ca>...
Crush ©
<marc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Here we go again.
>Some of your more recent posts have me worrying about you, Crush. When I
>first came to this newsgroup, I thought you were a valuable member, because
>you often pointed out mistakes in people's reasoning or facts. But now you
>fill the newsgroup with wandering diatribes and useless posts that say
>little more than 'Great point' or 'Exactly' or things that really don't
>require a new post.
Since I've ever posted here, I've always responded with 'I agree' or I
disagree'. This one I said 'good point'.
>This isn't really a newsgroup for you to whine about how much you hate
>Hondas and wish you had some car other than a Civic.
Nor is it a group to talk about gun laws. Of course, I get singled out
as always.
>This is a newsgroup
>for sharing useful facts and tidbits about Honda, the Honda family of
>vehicles, and related topics.
And I do my share to help out where I can. If someone wants to buy a
Vtec engine, I think they should read my site.
>But if you
>can't add something useful to the newsgroup, couldn't you find something
>better to do with your time? I'm not trying to flame you here. I'm just
>asking that you be the Crush I used to know.
What? The news group is busy lately and there are tons of posts. What
am I doing so out of the ordinary?
>The one that offered useful
>advice when someone entered a sincere post.
I still do. I don't know what you mean.
>The one that corrected
>inaccurate facts to the best of your ability.
I still do.
>The one who might require a
>sense of humor to bear, but generally had a valid point in the majority of
>his posts. That's the Crush I wish were still here.
I think I'm still the same aren't I? What am I doing so different? :-)
___
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE? (MSRP=$17k)
www.geocities.com/b3nj3rm4n/rearleft.jpg
The Vtec Reality Check
http://members.home.net/crush/reality-check
Over 45,300 people educated!
Honda Civic vs. Ford Mustang FAQ
http://members.home.net/crush
Smart ->Clint Law, Dennis Kuo, Ryan R, Eric, Newbie Steve, Brian Cho, interrupt
Flawed ->ConANDave, mike, edscholl, Andrew, nelson, samagon
Crush ©
>Actually, under most conditions, these mods will improve mileage by 1-2 mpg.
>Under heavy throttle usage, mileage may go down similarly (more hp means
>more fuel burned). A properly modified normally aspirated engine, assuming
>you haven't increased displacement, will be able to return very similar
>mileage to stock - even with hp increases in the 30-40% range.
That is really hard to believe. It's just that every person with mods
always claim they lose milage.
Crush ©
<marc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Some of your more recent posts have me worrying about you, Crush.
Oh yes. And Lee is a big part of the problem not responding to my
posts. It's been almost 2 months, he should come around. I want to
talk to him about dogs and cars. I have lots of questions to ask him.
SFC174
are producing more hp. But under normal driving conditions, the engine can
use less throttle opening to produce the same hp as before. This increases
efficiency and thus mileage (intakes and exhausts reduce pumping losses).
Anecdotal example - my 195 wheel hp Integra GS-R would still return 30-31
mpg on long highway trips at 80 mph. Bone stock with only 145 hp at the
wheels it would return........about 31 mpg.
SFC
Crush © <-cru...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
<38e74fad...@news1.on.sympatico.ca>...
Ward, Luke [CAR:D525:EXCH]
I have modified my SiR and have not noticed any change in mileage.
Nice try again Crush.
slawz
engine. A normal intake works just as well.... It may reduce low end
torque, but not by much, maybe by .8lb/ft or so...
--
Jim
------------
'00 Celica GT-S 6 Speed
'86 Mustang GT-T5-T-Tops-3.55 Gears-Flowmaster Mufflers-K&N
Check out Import Vs. Domestic and Import Vs. Import forums at
http://www.ls6.com
Bruce Robertson <br...@urbanscout.com> wrote in message
news:vWwB4.7872$9M1.5...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
slawz
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 01:54:44 GMT, "SFC174" <sfc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Iceman and AEM intakes will create a nice 5-6 lbs-ft bump around
3000-3500
> >rpm which is right where you drive normally. A DC 4-2-1 header with
exhaust
> >will boost power nicely from 3000-5000 and continue to make good power up
> >top.
>
> How much milage does one typically lose with these kinds of exhaust,
> header and intake mods?
>
crush, it makes it more efficient. Mileage will go up with boltons such as
an intake and exhaust.
--
Jim
------------
'00 Celica GT-S 6 Speed
'86 Mustang GT-T5-T-Tops-3.55 Gears-Flowmaster Mufflers-K&N
Check out Import Vs. Domestic and Import Vs. Import forums at
http://www.ls6.com
>
> WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?? (MSRP=$17k)
> www.geocities.com/b3nj3rm4n/rearleft.jpg
>
> The Vtec Reality Check
> http://members.home.net/crush/reality-check
> Over 45,300 people educated!
>
> Honda Civic vs. Ford Mustang FAQ
> http://members.home.net/crush
>
> Smart ->Clint Law, Dennis Kuo, Ryan R, Eric, Newbie Steve, Brian Cho,
interrupt
> Flawed ->ConANDave, mike, edscholl, Andrew, nelson, sam...@my-deja.com
>
Zaw
> I wanted to put an aftermarket header and cold air intake on my '94 Integra
> GSR, but I've heard some opinions that feeding the engine more air is only
> beneficial at very high rpm and will actually rob it of some low-rpm torque.
> Since one thing the GSR doesn't have enough of is low-rpm torque, I'd like
> to know if that's true. Any opinions?
>
> Bruce
fuck all that carp..
just Trubo it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Intake and Exahust doesn't do shit to your car.
Crush ©
>crush, it makes it more efficient. Mileage will go up with boltons such as
>an intake and exhaust.
Gee, that's not what I heard.
___
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE? (MSRP=$17k)
www.geocities.com/b3nj3rm4n/rearleft.jpg
The Vtec Reality Check
http://members.home.net/crush/reality-check
Over 45,300 people educated!
Honda Civic vs. Ford Mustang FAQ
http://members.home.net/crush
Smart ->Clint Law, Dennis Kuo, Ryan R, Eric, Newbie Steve, Brian Cho, interrupt
Flawed ->ConANDave, mike, edscholl, Andrew, nelson, samagon
Crush ©
> It may reduce low end
>torque
Than I don't want it :-)
BadBird66
>>an intake and exhaust.
>
>Gee, that's not what I heard.
>
Well you've heard wrong then. Improving the intake and exhaust systems allows
the engine to flow more air with less restriction, improving its efficiency. As
efficiency goes up, so does fuel economy.
Barn Barn
He's right, a more free flowing intake will improve fuel economy and add power
...mostly at the upper end because the engine needs more air. i.e. crush
.. more piston movement/time = more air flow required per second.
Most ppl don't notice the economy cause they like the power so much and the
sound of the K&N when you get the engine going that they actually use more
fuel, but if you drive it the same then it should improve.
Barn Barn
Kevin McMurtrie
>>>crush, it makes it more efficient. Mileage will go up with boltons
>>>such as
>>>an intake and exhaust.
>>
>>Gee, that's not what I heard.
>>
>
>Well you've heard wrong then. Improving the intake and exhaust systems
>allows
>the engine to flow more air with less restriction, improving its
>efficiency. As
>efficiency goes up, so does fuel economy
A better intake might help milage on a diesel engine but not a gasoline
engine. Remember the throttle, the thing that restricts the air?
BadBird66
>engine. Remember the throttle, the thing that restricts the air?
Yes, but also if you can get cooler, denser outside air as opposed to hot
engine bay air, you're efficiency also will go up.
Kevin McMurtrie
badb...@aol.com (BadBird66) wrote:
Yes, near full throttle. Otherwise warm (not hot) air is best because
it vaporizes the fuel better.
The engine is most efficient at low RPM and high throttle. The only mod
that could give you better gas milage and performance is something that
boosts the manifold pressure above atmospheric at low RPM, like a
supercharger. But then the fun of having such a device is going to ruin
your milage :-)
angst
intake like the guy did on this link
http://www.teamdelsol.com/howto/coldair/diycoldair.htm
Would it be necessary to reset the air/fuel mix ratio after doing any
air intake changes?
Eric Z
P.S. K+N tech support says their part #RC-4160 will fit on a 2 1/2 inch
pipe, but I cant find anyone locally (including k+n dealers) that can
order it.