S2000 vs. MR2 Spyder vs. Z3 vs. Mazda Miata

[rick osborn]

Price, image factor and mechanical longevity aside.

Which is the best enthusiast car:
strongest acceleration, best handling, and widest availability of
aftermarket parts for upgrade?

[Mark S. Jennings]

No contest: the S2000. The aftermarket is a little sparse right now, but
if all you care about is going fast, the S2000 is by far the pick of the
litter in this group. The issue with the S2K is that it is a bit rough for
a daily driver and makes most of its power way up the RPM band. So it is a
car that has to be driven aggressively to extract any performance.

- Mark

[Tom Too]

Corvette. Hands down.

Quickest. Best handling. Best aftermarket upgrades.

Tom
"rick osborn" <rick_s...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:xTO07.23498$C81.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Thomas Hill]

Although not specifically on your list, the M Roadster. The M Roadster is
the M version of the Z3. Although the S2000 is ok, I just prefer German
engineering.

Thomas
97 M3

"rick osborn" <rick_s...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:xTO07.23498$C81.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Chris Phillipo]

Tom Too wrote:

> Corvette. Hands down.
>
> Quickest. Best handling. Best aftermarket upgrades.
>
> Tom

In a drag race maybe.
--
_______________________________
Remove "X" from email to reply.

[Steve Sheldon]

"rick osborn" <rick_s...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:xTO07.23498$C81.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

No question!

Honda Civic with some low riders...

[Huh?]

S2000???

Let's see.....32K, if you can get someone to sell you one for list---2001
Miata with sport package 19,800 + supercharger 2600 + exhaust work 350 +
supercharger upgrade 600 = ($23350) same horsepower, more storage room, less
insurance and better drivability.

Is there any question that the best deal is the Miata?---especially when you
can use the left over $$$ for suspension upgrades, rollbar, brakes, shocks,
etc..............or even go TURBO!!!!

If you want to race a vette, put in a small block V-8.

If you have the cash for a S2000.........buy a Miata and make it an S2000
killer :)

Just my 2 cents...........besides, this is a Miata Newsgroup :-)

Mark S. Jennings <mark...@NOSPAMdizzle.com> wrote in message
news:99429550...@yabetcha.drizzle.com...

[Vic]

"Huh?" <sdu...@warpnetSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:QfR07.22170$666....@newsfeed.slurp.net...

> If you have the cash for a S2000.........buy a Miata and make it an S2000
> killer :)
>
> Just my 2 cents...........besides, this is a Miata Newsgroup :-)

no, it's a BMW newsgroup

[Purest feeling]

"Huh?" <sdu...@warpnetSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:QfR07.22170$666....@newsfeed.slurp.net...

> S2000???
>
> Let's see.....32K, if you can get someone to sell you one for list---2001
> Miata with sport package 19,800 + supercharger 2600 + exhaust work 350 +
> supercharger upgrade 600 = ($23350) same horsepower, more storage room,
less
> insurance and better drivability.
>
> Is there any question that the best deal is the Miata?---especially when
you
> can use the left over $$$ for suspension upgrades, rollbar, brakes,
shocks,
> etc..............or even go TURBO!!!!
>
> If you want to race a vette, put in a small block V-8.
>
> If you have the cash for a S2000.........buy a Miata and make it an S2000
> killer :)
>
> Just my 2 cents...........besides, this is a Miata Newsgroup :-)
>
>

Yes even if you upgrade all that stuff, its still known universally as the
faggots car of choice. I'd rather have the honda, thank you.

[Dustin]

Yeah.. the miata is definitely the gayest "homo" car out to date :-)

"Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message
news:7uR07.147458$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...

[Dustin]

no.. it's a honda newsgroup

"Vic" <som...@somewhere.con> wrote in message
news:WsR07.29367$PF6.1...@wagner.videotron.net...

[GRL]

In a drag race or on a road course. No question. None. Check the buff books.
GM has really gotten their act together on the C5 Corvette.

--
- GRL

"It's good to want things."

S. Barr (Philosopher/Poet/Visual Basic Programmer)

"Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B4526C6...@ns.sympatico.ca...

[DAVID J ROBINSON]

Well the S2000 is the outright best car of the three listed. Very fast,
very high revving and well is a higher classed car racing wise.

Now with respect to the C5 Corvette. It is really a great handling car for
the money. Great power great handling also. the Z06 the best of the lot
here.

Dave

Tom Too <tom...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:k0P07.21795$WT.39...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...

[Purest feeling]

"GRL" <GLitw...@BIGFOOT.COM> wrote in message
news:b7S07.163794$DG1.27...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...

> In a drag race or on a road course. No question. None. Check the buff
books.
> GM has really gotten their act together on the C5 Corvette.
>
> --
> - GRL

I think the gas cap placement sucks on the C5. Should have been left alone,
i also dont like how the side marker lights aren't flush anymore. I still
prefer the 92-96's.

[Joe Schmoe]

Although I'm a roadster kind of guy and personally wouldn't own a Vet, you
are very correct when you the vette is the best car. Great bang for the
buck.

"Tom Too" <tom...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:k0P07.21795$WT.39...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...

[Joe Schmoe]

> Yes even if you upgrade all that stuff, its still known universally as the
> faggots car of choice. I'd rather have the honda, thank you.
>

Actually, I think we gave that title to Camaros.

[Purest feeling]

"Joe Schmoe" <totalit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:NmU07.976$GI4....@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net...

Nah, see the miata is a 'pretend' sports car, rear wheel drive, 2 seats but
no power, crappy brakes and you get crushed if hit by another car since its
a tin can.

[will]

what part of the C5/C6 wasn't one of the choices, please tell me your not
blind...

"Tom Too" <tom...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:k0P07.21795$WT.39...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...

[will]

NO it's a cross posting listing....not of which most like....

"Vic" <som...@somewhere.con> wrote in message
news:WsR07.29367$PF6.1...@wagner.videotron.net...
>

[will]

YEAH RIGHT!
LMAO

"Steve Sheldon" <sshe...@sodablue.org> wrote in message
news:9i0ke5$f1u$1...@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net...

[M Maltby]

I think its gotta be the Z3 M Roadster...although for £36000 + options it
ought to be :-) ...but at that price Id sooner have a 'real' sportscar and
go for a 5litre TVR

bogie
94 VTEC lude

"rick osborn" <rick_s...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:xTO07.23498$C81.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Myk]

Nice question but you will get a different car for just about all of
the last questions.

Enthusiast? S2000, MR2, or Miata. The only Enthusiast Z is the
M-Roadster.
Handling? S2k then any given day the Miata and the MR2 decking it out.
Z3? Somewhere back there.
Acceleration? S2k and Z3 then MR2 then Miata, the latter two are
splitting hairs and a different shift makes the difference.
Aftermarket? Miata, hands down! The Z has some aftermarket at a high
price, the S2k very limited. The MR2's is almost non-existent for the
new model and moderate for the older ones while the Miata has a wide
variety of very inexpensive mods ranging up to some killer turbo's.
I've seen a few mods out there for S2k's but they are $$$ and haven't
had much time to get tested yet. Given time they will probably come
up in number. I've hardly seen any males at all (2 to date) driving
the new MR2's so I can't see the aftermarket sweeping forth to draw in
performance oriented markets when the target buyers aren't buying. Z?
Likely to remain mostly cosmetic and suspension oriented give or take
the odd SC. I'm betting their gamble is that those who want the power
buy the M-Roadster or do a transplant.

For reference I own my 2nd and 3rd Miata (one nearly stock, one
modified), used to own a Supercharged MR2 (modified to hell and back),
want to add an S2k to the stable (won't replace the Miata's, just
augment them) and plan to own an older M3. Bias? Well, towards owning
them all perhaps. :)

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 03:50:27 GMT, "Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net>
wrote:

>Yes even if you upgrade all that stuff, its still known universally as the
>faggots car of choice. I'd rather have the honda, thank you.

Say what? Try the VW Bug, VW Golf Cabrio, or the new MR2 Spyder for
the rainbow crowd. The Miata is known more for decimating autocross
courses and being the best bang for the buck sports car, enthusiast
car, and topping virtually every magazines top-10 lists since it came
out in '89. Where exactly did you get that crap from? Oh that's right,
you made it up! You do know what they say about Honda's don't you?
<grin>

[GRL]

Looks are a different matter. Some think the C5 looks are too derivative of
other cars like the NSX and last RX7 or that the rear looks HUGE. I also
thought the C4 looked better. But the C5 still sells very well and it's been
out for years now. Much better than the C4 did, so we appear to be in the
minority.

- GRL

"Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message

news:5lS07.147476$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...

[GRL]

To be fair to the fellow, the choices he listed are well under theC5 drop
top in price, at least when new.

- GRL
"will" <wil...@yahoo.no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:qXV07.3181$oa1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Chris Phillipo]

GRL wrote:

> Looks are a different matter. Some think the C5 looks are too derivative of
> other cars like the NSX and last RX7 or that the rear looks HUGE. I also
> thought the C4 looked better. But the C5 still sells very well and it's been
> out for years now. Much better than the C4 did, so we appear to be in the
> minority.
>
> - GRL
>

I always thought the Corvette looked like a derivative of a penis. A
resemblance that's been noted in more than one magazine. Perfect for the middle
age viagra using types.

[Chris Phillipo]

Huh? wrote:

> S2000???
>
> Let's see.....32K, if you can get someone to sell you one for list---2001
> Miata with sport package 19,800 + supercharger 2600 + exhaust work 350 +
> supercharger upgrade 600 = ($23350) same horsepower, more storage room, less
> insurance and better drivability.
>
> Is there any question that the best deal is the Miata?---especially when you
> can use the left over $$$ for suspension upgrades, rollbar, brakes, shocks,
> etc..............or even go TURBO!!!!

Too bad the Miata is a Mazda, practically a Ford these days.

[Chris Phillipo]

Myk wrote:

The Miata is known for being mass produced and cheap. Mustangs still come out
on top in magazines, but who in their right mind would buy one. If you want to
be like everyone else, by either of those two fords.

[GRL]

So what's your point? You're describing all of the classic British sports
cars (MG, Triumph, Sunbeam, even Lotus, plus God knows how many they never
imported to the U.S.). The Fiat 124 and Alfa Romeo would likely fit under
that umbrella, too.That's the kind of "retro" sports car the Miata was
intended to be. The difference is that the Miata is actually reliable. Is
that what makes it a pretend sports car?

Mazda is in the process of updating the Miata. Might even get a Wankel
engine. Could get very interesting.

- GRL

"Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message

news:gxU07.147499$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...

[Tom Too]

You obviously don't have a clue about the capabilities of the current model
Corvette.

Tom

"Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B4526C6...@ns.sympatico.ca...
>
>

[Tom Too]

They don't flush anymore? You had a 92-96 with the optional toilet?

Just curious. What's wrong with the gas cap placement. Seems to work fine to
me.

Tom

"Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message

news:5lS07.147476$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...

[Tom Too]

Got badly beaten by one recently, didn't you.

Tom

"Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3B459F40...@ns.sympatico.ca...

[Tom Too]

Just didn't want you to miss the best choice. The point was "best
enthusiast car" and "strongest acceleration, best handling, and widest
availability of aftermarket parts for upgrade". None of the listed cars
comes even close.

For example, with simple aftermarket upgrades, the Corvette easily tops
450rwhp and does 1G on the skidpad.

Heck, my 540iT station wagon can blow away most of the cars on that list.

Tom

"will" <wil...@yahoo.no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:qXV07.3181$oa1.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

[Chris Phillipo]

Tom Too wrote:

Oh yes I go out looking for you over compensating for, small penis/gay
tendencies/divorce/middle age types all the time in my 150 hp 4 runner, LOL.

[Chris Phillipo]

Tom Too wrote:

> You obviously don't have a clue about the capabilities of the current model
> Corvette.
>
> Tom

Having driven both last year's Corvette and two S2000's, I know exactly what
I'm talking about. I work for a Honda dealership, guess how we ended up with a
Corvette and minus one S2000?.

[Tom Too]

Bought the Corvette at auction, didn't you?

Tom
"Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3B45ACF0...@ns.sympatico.ca...

[bofh]

"rick osborn" <rick_s...@excite.com> writes:

>
> Price, image factor and mechanical longevity aside.

> ...

> Which is the best enthusiast car:

Without a doubt, the Miata, especially considering your first
statement. Go to any SCCA club race or autocross and count the
Miatas. They are so popular that there is now a spec class for them in
club racing. The class they compete in in Solo II (autocross) is for
all practical purposes, a spec class. The support enthusiasts get from
Mazda Comp is unparalleled. You need race spec parts? Pick up the
phone, give them a call and they are on their way. Try doing that with
BMW's Motorsport division.

From what I can tell, the S2000 is a very hard car to drive well. For
all it's excellent specs I've never seen one driven well on the race
course. Which isn't to say it can't be done as Neil Sapp is doing
quite well in his, but then he's not your average driver.

The Z3 is a terrific car, but as far as being the "best enthusiast
car", it loses. The 4 cyl. Z3s were run off all the race tracks by the
Miatas and the 6 cyls face really tough competition too. The Z3 has a
17 year old chassis design and while it's a hoot to drive, it will be
beat by cars with a more sophisticated design, other things being
equal. It also suffers from the bane of all BMWs since the 2002,
excessive weight.

No experience with the new mister two, as I've haven't seen one at a
track or autocross yet. The first gen MR2 was and is much loved by
enthusiasts, though.

You might consider the boxster, too.

Joel
a bunch of BMWs and chebby trucks

[ABCS]

Joel wrote in message news:ygaofqz...@severn.office.aol.com...

>
> Without a doubt, the Miata, especially considering your first
> statement. Go to any SCCA club race or autocross and count the
> Miatas. They are so popular that there is now a spec class for them in
> club racing.

Amen on the Miatas. Got one; but it's two different kinds of driving
compared to BMWs. They are cleaning the clock on most of the competition at
local autox. The Miata is great fun to toss around and great supply of
aftermarket bits. I used to think my moded e28 (86 535i) handled great
until I got the Miata. However, take it on a long trip, and I'll take my
540i any day.

Don
95 540i
95 ///Miata (the other M car)

[Adam Drew]

Chris Phillipo wrote:
>
> Huh? wrote:
>
> > S2000???
> >
> > Let's see.....32K, if you can get someone to sell you one for list---2001
> > Miata with sport package 19,800 + supercharger 2600 + exhaust work 350 +
> > supercharger upgrade 600 = ($23350) same horsepower, more storage room, less
> > insurance and better drivability.
> >
> > Is there any question that the best deal is the Miata?---especially when you
> > can use the left over $$$ for suspension upgrades, rollbar, brakes, shocks,
> > etc..............or even go TURBO!!!!
>
> Too bad the Miata is a Mazda, practically a Ford these days.

There are a few "real" Mazdas left: the Protegé, Miata and Millenia.
These cars are still built in Japan and use mainly Japanese parts.

My '99 Protegé 5-speed has 97% Japanese part content, including the
engine and transmission. I've put 36,000 relatively hard miles on it
without a single problem, other than replacing the crappy OEM tires at
21k. Great deal at $13,500 (US).

Adam

[suvh8r]

> I've seen a few mods out there for S2k's but they are $$$ and haven't
> had much time to get tested yet.

Comptech Supercharger for the s2k gives it 290 hp to the rear wheels... $5k.

[Chris Scott]

you have no clue what your talking about do you? when was the last time you
drove a miata?

[Ryan]

"Joe Schmoe" <totalit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:NmU07.976$GI4....@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net...
> > Yes even if you upgrade all that stuff, its still known universally as
the
> > faggots car of choice. I'd rather have the honda, thank you.
> >
>
> Actually, I think we gave that title to Camaros.

no no, the Camaros are "mulletmobiles"

[Ryan]

the only real Mazda was the RX-7.

[Paul]

Obviously this is a biased group of people here. I think most of us have not
even driven any of these cars, or own just one of them and haven't driven
the rest. You need someone who has driven all and does not own any of them.

Paul

[Todd Kuzma]

Depends on what you are looking for. As the replies so far have pointed
out, there is a wide discrepancy in what folks call a "sports car." These
cars all drive quite differently, especially if you throw in the Corvette.

The Miata and MR2 are both lightweight and very tossable. Go from the
driver's seat in either to a Z3 and the BMW will feel like a Buick.

The Corvette is HUGE in comparison to the others. It will beat their pants
off on the track, but you'll be waking up every cop in the county if you try
to explore its limits on the streets. I'm not saying that they aren't fun.
They are, but in a different way than a small, lightweight sports car.

I've owned a pretty wide variety of cars myself and last year looked at the
Miata and Z3 (I couldn't find the MR2 or S2000 available anywhere in the
area). I REALLY wanted the Z3. I'm a member of the BMW CCA and former BMW
owner. I liked the Z3 a lot. However, when I drove them back-to-back, the
Miata was just a lot more fun. And, as others have pointed out, there is an
unbelievable aftermarket for Miatas. Anyone who thinks these aren't real
sports cars should check out www.miata.net.

Finally, choice is good. These are all fine cars. How insecure do you have
to be to resort to name-calling to defend your own personal choice?

Todd Kuzma
Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
http://www.tullios.com
Raleigh-Schwinn-Specialized
Bianchi-Waterford-Heron
GT/Dyno-Burley-Co-Motion

[Tom]

"Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3B45A018...@ns.sympatico.ca...

You haven't a clue. The Miata is the most reliable best bang for the buck
sports
car since the 1st gen RX7 and 240Z. Although it's certainly not for the
"Macho in need of a penis substitute crowd", it's a great car for people
who
want something fun and reliable.

-Tom

[Tom]

"GRL" <GLitw...@BIGFOOT.COM> wrote in message

news:c8Y07.165691$DG1.27...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...

> So what's your point? You're describing all of the classic British sports
> cars (MG, Triumph, Sunbeam, even Lotus, plus God knows how many they never
> imported to the U.S.). The Fiat 124 and Alfa Romeo would likely fit under
> that umbrella, too.That's the kind of "retro" sports car the Miata was
> intended to be. The difference is that the Miata is actually reliable. Is
> that what makes it a pretend sports car?
>
> Mazda is in the process of updating the Miata. Might even get a Wankel
> engine. Could get very interesting.
>

I always wondered why they didn't offer a rotary engine in the Miata.
Could get me interested in sports cars again!

[dweezil]

Read-em-and-weep, boys

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/archives/features/feature01_0601.shtml

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 00:52:45 GMT, "rick osborn"
<rick_s...@excite.com> wrote:

>Price, image factor and mechanical longevity aside.
>

>Which is the best enthusiast car:

[b...@pacifier.com]

Funny that is just what I thought!
By the way, all the Honda dealerships would not sell the s2000 for less than
$41,000 (quite the dealer markup). So I got the Miata and the supercharger
etc. I loved the benefits of the Mazda's experience with convertable
roadsters. Although the Miata is a more refined design, Mazda still doesn't
come close to Honda service and customer support. As soon as the Mazda
dealership saw my supercharger they informed the Regional Service Manager. He
voided my engine and drivetrain warranty immediately. When I took up the issue
with Mazda they said they support the Regional Service Manager.

Huh? wrote:

> S2000???
>
> Let's see.....32K, if you can get someone to sell you one for list---2001
> Miata with sport package 19,800 + supercharger 2600 + exhaust work 350 +
> supercharger upgrade 600 = ($23350) same horsepower, more storage room, less
> insurance and better drivability.
>
> Is there any question that the best deal is the Miata?---especially when you
> can use the left over $$$ for suspension upgrades, rollbar, brakes, shocks,
> etc..............or even go TURBO!!!!
>

> If you want to race a vette, put in a small block V-8.
>
> If you have the cash for a S2000.........buy a Miata and make it an S2000
> killer :)
>
> Just my 2 cents...........besides, this is a Miata Newsgroup :-)
>
> Mark S. Jennings <mark...@NOSPAMdizzle.com> wrote in message
> news:99429550...@yabetcha.drizzle.com...

> >
> > > Price, image factor and mechanical longevity aside.
> > >
> > > Which is the best enthusiast car:
> > > strongest acceleration, best handling, and widest availability of
> > > aftermarket parts for upgrade?
> >

> > No contest: the S2000. The aftermarket is a little sparse right now, but
> > if all you care about is going fast, the S2000 is by far the pick of the
> > litter in this group. The issue with the S2K is that it is a bit rough
> for
> > a daily driver and makes most of its power way up the RPM band. So it is
> a
> > car that has to be driven aggressively to extract any performance.
> >
> > - Mark
> >
> >

[ABCS]

Yesterday. Why?

Don
"Chris Scott" <scot...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qQ%07.78554$Md.20...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...

[b...@pacifier.com]

Big Woop!! Wow your apple IS redder than my orange. IT HAS BEEN MODIFIED.
The MR2 and Miata are so close in performance (splitting hairs), if we are
to deal with modified cars, then the real comparison becomes the cost and
quality of the aftermarket parts. The MR2 is so new it doesn't have the
advantage the Miata has in the aftermarket department.
For me being able to go to the store with my wife shop for groceries and
have room for 7 grocery bags (a full shopping cart). Makes the Miata a
better one car daily driver. Its a lot more utilitarian. Also having a
convertable top with a glass window and defrost makes winter easy. Also the
Miata's top is the fastest to flip up and down, and can easily be done in
less than 2 seconds while seated in the drivers (don't have to even unbuckle
my seat belt).
Both MR2 and Miata are simmilar real fun to drive cars.

BrianW :-)
PS. I have yet to see a Miata with a rainbow on it. But then most Miata
owners have nothing to prove. Homosexual people can and do own every type
of car. There is no such thing as a car for homosexuals! Grow UP!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Chris Scott]

bc its far far away from a ford.

[Myk]

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:27:12 -0700, "Paul" <earthen...@mail.com>
wrote:

>Obviously this is a biased group of people here. I think most of us have not
>even driven any of these cars, or own just one of them and haven't driven
>the rest. You need someone who has driven all and does not own any of them.

I'd likely agree that most people here haven't driven them. I,
however, have driven all but the S2k and multiple versions of all but
the MR2 (only drove the one). As for the S2k I've had several rides
including as a passenger at a few autocrosses. I may not have driven
it but it's a car that, at least based on experiance as a passenger, I
would like to own.

I do hate people who look at a magazine article or have never even sat
in much less driven a car happily touting how it feels, handles,
drives, etc. They remind me of the idiots that go to college, buy the
books, never open them, but are automatically given the knowledge of
the profession because 'that's what I majored in'.. Yeah, right.

[slacker808]

i'd say that you have to drive each car and decide for yourself.
everyone has different preferences for a sports car. as for
availability of aftermarket parts...

Z3 - not much. because the car is perfect out of the box. ;-)

S2000 - Mugen, Neuspeed, Comptech, a few others.

MR2 - TRD offers the most parts for this car. and i think i read
somewhere that a third party is making a turbo kit.

Miata - i think Jackson Racing still makes go fast parts. not totally
sure.

.

so i think the S2000 and the MR2 come out on top for aftermarket parts.
i'm pretty sure there are a lot a parts for the Z3, but i think most of
the manufacturers are based in Europe. you'd probably have to hunt down
a speed shop in the states that specializes is BMW's.

---
rich

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:22:57 -0700, b...@pacifier.com wrote:

>Funny that is just what I thought!
>By the way, all the Honda dealerships would not sell the s2000 for less than
>$41,000 (quite the dealer markup). So I got the Miata and the supercharger
>etc. I loved the benefits of the Mazda's experience with convertable
>roadsters. Although the Miata is a more refined design, Mazda still doesn't
>come close to Honda service and customer support. As soon as the Mazda
>dealership saw my supercharger they informed the Regional Service Manager. He
>voided my engine and drivetrain warranty immediately. When I took up the issue
>with Mazda they said they support the Regional Service Manager.

Funny how they sell exactly the same powertrain w/ supercharger out of
the factory in Japan but just don't have the guts to offer it in the
US market...

[Myk]

I'm aware it's out there but I'm waiting to see how it holds up over
the long run. Not many SC's love spinning at 9krpm. There is a
comptech S2k running around here, black over black, a few minor mods
like the lower skirts and chin spoiler and, unfortunately, a huge
tacky aluminum riced wing. The downside is that it's more for show
than go and he never drives it much of anywhere save for weekends. His
latest thing is to park it in front of the theatres where they are
playing the Riced and the Angry..err.. Fast and Furious, put on his
sunglasses and stand around by his car for hours on end wondering why
no one rushes up to talk to him. Oh well..

Btw, I do like the Comptech products and followed them for a while
when I was looking to get a Type-R (had they offered them in '99 I'd
have owned one now even though I can't stand FWD). Overall a good
company though $5k for the same basic SC sold for Miata's at $2400 is
a bit too high of a profit....

[Myk]

>So that works out to $1K for every 10 HP over stock. That is not a
>good deal since the S2000 stock is 240HP.

Beyond the quite overpriced supercharger upgrade ("Hey, if they can
cough up an extra 10 large just for the car they can surely afford an
extra 3000 profit for us, right?") I think it's targetted more at
increasing the low and midrange torque than just the overall
horsepower. I still wonder why so many people scream about the lack of
torque. The S2k is only a tick heavier than my 1.6 liter Miata and yet
has more torque than my car across the board. Mine seems to get down
the road just fine without having to be revved to oblivion all the
time. You want a muscle car? Buy a muscle car.

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:15:16 GMT, Chris Phillipo
<Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Having driven both last year's Corvette and two S2000's, I know exactly what
>I'm talking about. I work for a Honda dealership, guess how we ended up with a
>Corvette and minus one S2000?.

WHOA!!! Watch out everyone! His dealership gets a car in on trade and
he's driven it around the block once or twice. He knows ALL about what
that car is capable of! You better get ready to take notes from his
ten minutes of non-owner around the block experiance to figure out
where to spend your next fifty-thousand dollars!!!

Either that or just let him go back to washing them and making sure
they are all in a pretty line...

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 16:22:07 GMT, "Ryan" <lum...@lummer.com> wrote:

>the only real Mazda was the RX-7.

That's funny. The RX-7 wasn't the first Mazda. In fact, it wasn't even
close. If that was the only Real Mazda what was the brand called
before that car came out? Go back to Jr. High.

[miggedy mike]

"Myk" <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gpg9kt0mjcd55kjbp...@4ax.com...

that is odd... does it meet EPA specs?

[miggedy mike]

<b...@pacifier.com> wrote in message news:3B44A271...@pacifier.com...

> Funny that is just what I thought!
> By the way, all the Honda dealerships would not sell the s2000 for less
than
> $41,000 (quite the dealer markup). So I got the Miata and the
supercharger
> etc. I loved the benefits of the Mazda's experience with convertable
> roadsters. Although the Miata is a more refined design, Mazda still
doesn't
> come close to Honda service and customer support. As soon as the Mazda
> dealership saw my supercharger they informed the Regional Service Manager.
He
> voided my engine and drivetrain warranty immediately. When I took up the
issue
> with Mazda they said they support the Regional Service Manager.

of course... what did you expect? you play, you pay. i hope there was a
warranty on the install.

[Todd Kuzma]

in article MPG.15ae61ebc...@news.earthlink.net, slacker808 at
slack...@isp.net.com.edu.org.mil.gov.etc wrote on 7/5/01 2:39 PM:

> i'd say that you have to drive each car and decide for yourself.
> everyone has different preferences for a sports car. as for
> availability of aftermarket parts...
>
> Z3 - not much. because the car is perfect out of the box. ;-)
>
> S2000 - Mugen, Neuspeed, Comptech, a few others.
>
> MR2 - TRD offers the most parts for this car. and i think i read
> somewhere that a third party is making a turbo kit.
>
> Miata - i think Jackson Racing still makes go fast parts. not totally
> sure.

While I am sure there are more for the Z3, S2K, and MR2, I know the Miata
better. Here are some more aftermarket Miata suppliers:

Brainstorm
Borla
R-Speed
Enthuza
Flyin' Miata
Racing Beat
Greddy
Moss
Ansa
Candoo
Brospeed
HKS
Millen
Supertrapp
Freedom Design
Mazdaspeed
Koni
KYB
Eibach
Bilstein
Tokico
H&R
Spax
Z-Engineering

Just to name some of the major players off of the top of my head. A look
through the Roundel will produce a similar, but a bit smaller, list for Z3s.

For those who brought it up, there are several suppliers of superchargers
and turbochargers for the Miata. These are well-designed kits that are very
reliable and driveable while supplying up to 240 rear-wheel horsepower. Be
wary of some supplier who may take an off-the-shelf turbo or SC and come up
with a little plumbing to get it to fit. These will not work as well as a
well-designed system that incorporates modifications to fuel and ignition
systems to handle the demands of forced induction.

[Todd Kuzma]

in article 3B45A018...@ns.sympatico.ca, Chris Phillipo at
Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca wrote on 7/5/01 6:20 AM:

>
> The Miata is known for being mass produced and cheap.

Chris, Chris, Chris. First, I think all of the cars we're talking about
here are "mass-produced."

Second, not sure what you mean by "cheap." Yes, it costs less than the
other cars listed, which I think is generally a good thing. If you mean
lower in quality, I'm not so sure. While I've had mine for only a little
over a year, it's been very trouble-free. It's been better than past BMWs,
Porsches, Fords, Fiats, and Alfas (although just about ANYTHING is more
reliable than Fiats and Alfas!). I would never call my BMW cheap, but it
was not reliable nor easy to work on.

Are you aware of some problem inherent in the Miatas that has escaped most
of the Miata enthusiast community?

[Ryan]

i'm not talking about where it came from.

"Myk" <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message

news:cmg9kt0j5rif3jg4g...@4ax.com...

[John Carrier]

Corvette? Nice car but that wasn't the question.

If you like rowing the gear box, a free reving engine, impeccable handling:
The S2000 (and Honda reliability/servicability too).

If you like quality materials, low end grunt, excellent handling: The Z-3
(which can cost much more depending on version/options ... maintenance costs
will be higher after 36,000 miles free).

The Honda and Z3 are on a different level of performance from the Miata and
MR2. Not much aftermarket for the Honda (at 240Hp from 2 liters, how much
do you want?) yet, Lots for BMW (at a high price).

If you want an MGB done right: The Miata (but at roughly $10K less, its not
really a fair comparison with the above. Not generally as bulletproof as
other Japanese manufacturers, but it's not particularly highly stressed
either)

MR2? Well there's that renowned Toyota reliability.

Miata has LOTS of aftermarket parts available (reasonably priced too). MR2?
Not so sure.

A TOY's choice (as any roadster, spyder, cabriolet must be) is not an
entirely rational decision. It gets down to the quirks that endear one
design while relagating another to also-ran status. Drive them all and
choose with your heart. You won't be disappointed.

R / John

[Frank]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:32:40 -0500, Todd Kuzma <tul...@TheRamp.net>
wrote:

>The Miata and MR2 are both lightweight and very tossable. Go from the
>driver's seat in either to a Z3 and the BMW will feel like a Buick.

Although being in a BMW group, I would like to express my dislike of
the BMW Z3. The car is based on an old E30 chassis, but the whole car
is balanced worse. Once I attended to a drive training with my `92
325iC A, and there were also two Z3s attending, one with the 1.9 litre
4 cyl engine, one with the 2.8 litre 6cyl engine. My 8 year old car
handled better than these two brand new cars.

If you really want to have a BMW sports car, go for the new E46 M3.

BTW: I've read raving reviews about the new sequential gearbox of the
MR2. German Car Magazine Auto Motor Sport said, it was the first
sequential gearbox they liked.

Frank

[Vincent]

$32k vs $23k vs $30k vs $20k

If $$ is not a concern plus you love to red-line a car to get its best stuff
pick S2000. However if you like the other way, go for Z3.

If $$ is a concern, and you want a toy rather than a car you can have 5.1
cubic feet to store grocery, or a golf bag, or a guitar case; pick MR2 S.
Otherwise pick Miata.

S2000, MR2 S and Miata are all having great aftermarket resource. Z3's
market is more narrower...

[David]

In the "small, fast car" category, it's hard to beat the new Subaru
WRX... (be even better if you can bring in a non-USA model...)

Also - what about the Audi TT with the big engine?

Both of those are pretty good performers with AWD, etc. can't speak to
the tuneability, though...

[Steve Sheldon]

"Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3B45ACF0...@ns.sympatico.ca...

>
> Having driven both last year's Corvette and two S2000's, I know exactly
what
> I'm talking about. I work for a Honda dealership, guess how we ended up
with a
> Corvette and minus one S2000?.

Oh yeah?

Well I work for GM and there's no way in hell I'd be caught dead driving a
Honda.

Of course I also don't drive GM products, but that's beside the point!

[DAVID J ROBINSON]

Steve Sheldon <sshe...@sodablue.org> wrote in message
news:9i30af$1ju8$1...@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net...

> "Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:3B45ACF0...@ns.sympatico.ca...

> Well I work for GM and there's no way in hell I'd be caught dead driving a

> Honda.
>
>
> Of course I also don't drive GM products, but that's beside the point!
>

It a long walk from the Import parking lot to the plant huh?

Dave

[Lee Cao]

"Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message
news:5lS07.147476$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...

>
> "GRL" <GLitw...@BIGFOOT.COM> wrote in message

> news:b7S07.163794$DG1.27...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...
> > In a drag race or on a road course. No question. None. Check the buff
> books.
> > GM has really gotten their act together on the C5 Corvette.
> >
> > --
> > - GRL
>
> I think the gas cap placement sucks on the C5. Should have been left
alone,
> i also dont like how the side marker lights aren't flush anymore. I still
> prefer the 92-96's.

Typical GM stuff... The Corvette is an excellent vehicle in terms of
performance. But since it still draws interior and accessory parts from the
average GM parts bin, the typical cheap GM feel remains.

--
Lee Cao - www.leecao.com
#########################
BlueText Development - www.bluetextdev.com
RC Central - www.rccentral.com

[Lee Cao]

"Joe Schmoe" <totalit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zjU07.975$GI4....@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net...
> Although I'm a roadster kind of guy and personally wouldn't own a Vet, you
> are very correct when you the vette is the best car. Great bang for the
> buck.

Okay... I think I read somewhere that the respectable handling
characteristics of the C5 only applies to the coupe. The roadster is one of
the worst vehicles in terms of chassis flex and cull (spell?) shake.

[Lee Cao]

"Tom Too" <tom...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:lrY07.140104$lq1.34...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> Just didn't want you to miss the best choice. The point was "best
> enthusiast car" and "strongest acceleration, best handling, and widest
> availability of aftermarket parts for upgrade". None of the listed cars
> comes even close.

Also remember that you'd have to settle for the coupe if you want a sharp
handling C5.

> For example, with simple aftermarket upgrades, the Corvette easily tops
> 450rwhp and does 1G on the skidpad.
>
> Heck, my 540iT station wagon can blow away most of the cars on that list.

What? in acceleration, handling, aftermarket parts support and being an
enthusiast car?

The 540iT is a nice station wagon, but I doubt it quite falls into the same
league as an S2000 or Z3.

> Tom

[Purest feeling]

"Tom Too" <tom...@softhome.net> wrote in message

news:LoY07.140084$lq1.34...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> They don't flush anymore? You had a 92-96 with the optional toilet?
>
> Just curious. What's wrong with the gas cap placement. Seems to work fine
to
> me.
>
> Tom

It's ugly as hell and interupts the flowing lines of the vette. The gas cap
was hidden before. The side markers aren't FLUSH or SMOOTH with the body as
they were on the 96. They stick OUT, I hope you understood this time.

> "Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message
> news:5lS07.147476$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...
> >
> > "GRL" <GLitw...@BIGFOOT.COM> wrote in message
> > news:b7S07.163794$DG1.27...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...
> > > In a drag race or on a road course. No question. None. Check the buff
> > books.
> > > GM has really gotten their act together on the C5 Corvette.
> > >
> > > --
> > > - GRL
> >
> > I think the gas cap placement sucks on the C5. Should have been left
> alone,
> > i also dont like how the side marker lights aren't flush anymore. I
still
> > prefer the 92-96's.
> > >
> > >

> > > "It's good to want things."
> > >
> > > S. Barr (Philosopher/Poet/Visual Basic
> Programmer)

> > >
> > > "Chris Phillipo" <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

> > > news:3B4526C6...@ns.sympatico.ca...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom Too wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Corvette. Hands down.
> > > > >
> > > > > Quickest. Best handling. Best aftermarket upgrades.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > In a drag race maybe.
> > > > --
> > > > _______________________________
> > > > Remove "X" from email to reply.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Leon van Dommelen]

Myk <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:27:12 -0700, "Paul" <earthen...@mail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Obviously this is a biased group of people here. I think most of us have not
>>even driven any of these cars, or own just one of them and haven't driven
>>the rest. You need someone who has driven all and does not own any of them.
>
>I'd likely agree that most people here haven't driven them. I,
>however, have driven all but the S2k and multiple versions of all but
>the MR2 (only drove the one). As for the S2k I've had several rides
>including as a passenger at a few autocrosses. I may not have driven
>it but it's a car that, at least based on experiance as a passenger, I
>would like to own.
>
>I do hate people who look at a magazine article or have never even sat
>in much less driven a car happily touting how it feels, handles,
>drives, etc.

Especially if it is obviously all based on the "more is better, period!"
numbers such as skidpad g rating, hp, 0-60 acceleration, torque, top
speed, that they have read in the magazines. ;)

> They remind me of the idiots that go to college, buy the
>books, never open them, but are automatically given the knowledge of
>the profession because 'that's what I majored in'.. Yeah, right.

Here is my opinion, anyway.

1) The "best" enthusiast car is unanswerable, since it is not said
what "best" is supposed to mean. If "best" means the car *I* would
prefer if I had to chose from any of the four for free (and would not
be allowed to sell it and could only drive it myself,) the Miata would
be the one. Hands down. Despite that the others cost more. (Not
relevant if you cannot sell it.)

2) The "best" acceleration is almost certainly intended to mean
the *fastest* acceleration. The (stock) Miata need not apply.

Unfortunately, the "best" to me means acceleration that feels faster
than it really is, allowing some fun without loss of license and
insurance.

3) The "best" handling is unclear. It may mean the highest g rating
on the skid pad, the car that goes around an AutoX circuit the fastest,
the car that wins AutoX in its class, the car with the best slush box,
the car to use to learn racing,... While Miatas dominate AutoX in
their class, such Miatas do *not* include Miatas driven by me, ;) so
I will skip this one.

4) "Widest availability of aftermarket parts?!?". While there are
zillions of aftermarket parts for a Miata, I would not give a darn
if there weren't as long as they have the parts *I* want. :)

Hard to believe you are ready to buy a car if you are so clueless
about what you want that you are not able to eliminate at least half
of these very dissimilar cars.

Anyway, I guess the asker wants the most power. It is hard to believe
that he has enough experience to know what "handling" really means
if he needs to *ask* about which car "has the best acceleration."

A FM Turbo readily puts 245 rear wheel hp on a car as light as the
Miata right out of the box, (for the price of the Miata plus maybe
another $6,000). I forgot what an engine swap with a supercharged V8
will do (300+ hp comes to mind). However, such a car is not a Miata in
my book; it just looks like one. I would recommend a car designed from
the start for that sort of application.

Leon

--
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
REMOVE THE "z"s -> domm...@zmiata.net www.dommelen.net

"EXIT THE INTERSTATES" (Jamie Jensen)

[Purest feeling]

"GRL" <GLitw...@BIGFOOT.COM> wrote in message

news:c8Y07.165691$DG1.27...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...
> So what's your point? You're describing all of the classic British sports
> cars (MG, Triumph, Sunbeam, even Lotus, plus God knows how many they never
> imported to the U.S.). The Fiat 124 and Alfa Romeo would likely fit under
> that umbrella, too.That's the kind of "retro" sports car the Miata was
> intended to be. The difference is that the Miata is actually reliable. Is
> that what makes it a pretend sports car?
>
> Mazda is in the process of updating the Miata. Might even get a Wankel
> engine. Could get very interesting.
>
> - GRL
>

My point is i don't like the car because of what mazda claims it is, but is
not.
If it is supposed to be a sports car, make it for that reason, not to be a
'cute' car.

[Purest feeling]

"Tom" <nospam@nospam> wrote in message
news:3b44982e$0$21...@wodc7nh0.news.uu.net...

>
> "GRL" <GLitw...@BIGFOOT.COM> wrote in message
> news:c8Y07.165691$DG1.27...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...
> > So what's your point? You're describing all of the classic British
sports
> > cars (MG, Triumph, Sunbeam, even Lotus, plus God knows how many they
never
> > imported to the U.S.). The Fiat 124 and Alfa Romeo would likely fit
under
> > that umbrella, too.That's the kind of "retro" sports car the Miata was
> > intended to be. The difference is that the Miata is actually reliable.
Is
> > that what makes it a pretend sports car?
> >
> > Mazda is in the process of updating the Miata. Might even get a Wankel
> > engine. Could get very interesting.
> >
>

> I always wondered why they didn't offer a rotary engine in the Miata.
> Could get me interested in sports cars again!
>
>

I could dig that, i might buy one then if it were not a convertible.

[Purest feeling]

"Myk" <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message

news:o2i8kt0k0tpfsp8nr...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 03:50:27 GMT, "Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes even if you upgrade all that stuff, its still known universally as
the
> >faggots car of choice. I'd rather have the honda, thank you.
>
> Say what? Try the VW Bug, VW Golf Cabrio, or the new MR2 Spyder for
> the rainbow crowd. The Miata is known more for decimating autocross
> courses and being the best bang for the buck sports car, enthusiast
> car, and topping virtually every magazines top-10 lists since it came
> out in '89. Where exactly did you get that crap from? Oh that's right,
> you made it up! You do know what they say about Honda's don't you?
> <grin>
>

Say what you want about the mr2, at least it doesn't look like a shrunken
canoe.

[Tom Too]

You think wrong. The C5 was designed as a roadster from the start. The
chassis is as stiff as the coupe. It would be interesting if you posted the
link to this information. I don't believe you will be able to.

That was a problem on C3 Corvettes, but not C5.

Tom
"Lee Cao" <lig...@leecao.SPAM_BE_GONE.com> wrote in message
news:LO817.7777$Lc3.1...@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...

[Purest feeling]

"Todd Kuzma" <tul...@TheRamp.net> wrote in message
news:B76A00D8.73E6%tul...@TheRamp.net...
> Depends on what you are looking for. As the replies so far have pointed
> out, there is a wide discrepancy in what folks call a "sports car." These
> cars all drive quite differently, especially if you throw in the Corvette.

I would call the civic si more of a sports car than the miata. Miata is too
slow! What is sad is you shouldn't have to supercharge it. It should come
that way if it were a true sports car.

[tullio]

Frank wrote:

> Although being in a BMW group, I would like to express my dislike of
> the BMW Z3. The car is based on an old E30 chassis, but the whole car
> is balanced worse. Once I attended to a drive training with my `92
> 325iC A, and there were also two Z3s attending, one with the 1.9 litre
> 4 cyl engine, one with the 2.8 litre 6cyl engine. My 8 year old car
> handled better than these two brand new cars.
>
> If you really want to have a BMW sports car, go for the new E46 M3.

The Z3 handling is OK, but the car is just heavier than a Miata or MR2.
No amount of suspension magic will make it feel like a lightweight sports
car. I used to have a 1992 325is that had just outstanding handling and
feel for the road. I just LOVED driving that car. Yet, it's big compared
to the Miata or MR2. There's something to be said for the feel of a
small, lightweight car, and the Miata and MR2 are BIG compared to some of
the old sport cars. Drive a Mini or Austin-Healy Sprite sometime.
Doggone slow but just a blast to drive!!

I've owned a couple of Alfa Spiders. Handling is just archaic compared to
these modern cars, but they have a GREAT exhaust note and are fantasitc
fun to throw around corners. Plus, like the Miata, you can do it in a
residential area without hardly raising an eyebrow. Try to "fling" a
Corvette around a corner, and if you've managed to break a tire loose,
you'll have half the law enforcement in town looking for you! :-)

[Joe Schmoe]

I don't think you've ever driven one. Or likely any true sports car. You
probably think of a sports car as something to impress your trailer park
friends rather than something you drive on a race course.

"Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net> wrote in message

news:gxU07.147499$qc.17...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...

>
> "Joe Schmoe" <totalit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> news:NmU07.976$GI4....@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net...

> > > Yes even if you upgrade all that stuff, its still known universally as
> the
> > > faggots car of choice. I'd rather have the honda, thank you.
> > >
> >

> > Actually, I think we gave that title to Camaros.
> >
> >
>
> Nah, see the miata is a 'pretend' sports car, rear wheel drive, 2 seats
but
> no power, crappy brakes and you get crushed if hit by another car since
its
> a tin can.
>
>

[tullio]

Purest feeling wrote:

> "Todd Kuzma" <tul...@TheRamp.net> wrote in message

> > Depends on what you are looking for. As the replies so far have pointed
> > out, there is a wide discrepancy in what folks call a "sports car." These
> > cars all drive quite differently, especially if you throw in the Corvette.
>
> I would call the civic si more of a sports car than the miata. Miata is too
> slow! What is sad is you shouldn't have to supercharge it. It should come
> that way if it were a true sports car.

Like I said, it depends on what you call a "sports car." The current Miata
gets to 60 in about 8 seconds, but blasting 0-60 isn't everything to everyone.
If you compare these figures to classic sports cars such as an Austin-Healy
100/3000, MGA, MGB, Porsche 356, Triumph TR2 through TR6, Alfa Romeo Spider
(Giulietta, Giulia, or 105-series), etc., the Miata will seem like a road
rocket. I don't believe that ANY of these broke 10 seconds 0-60 in stock
condition. In fact, many of the famed American muscle cars of the 60s had a
hard time getting to 60 in less than 8 seconds (sure they made great noise and
most remember the acceleration of LS-6 Chevelles and COPO Camaros rather than
the everyday GTOs, Mustangs, Novas, etc.).

To many, sports cars today are about handling, the right sounds, the feel of
the road through the wheel, and the wind through the hair. A front-drive coupe
such as the Civic Si may be fun, but it's not really in the same category. On
the other hand, some folks think of sports cars as Corvettes, Camaros, and
Mustangs. To them, acceleration is key, and the sounds they like aren't the
raspy exhaust of a vintage Alfa but the rumbling roar of American V8 (which,
sadly like most other new cars, is only available today through aftermarket
exhausts).

Like I said before, choice is good. There's no right or wrong choice here,
these are all nice cars. For those who doubt the Miata, I'll tell you what.
Take a lengthy test drive on a curvy road with the top down and tell me if you
don't manage to crack a smile.

Todd Kuzma

[tullio]

Purest feeling wrote:

> "Todd Kuzma" <tul...@TheRamp.net> wrote in message

> > Depends on what you are looking for. As the replies so far have pointed
> > out, there is a wide discrepancy in what folks call a "sports car." These
> > cars all drive quite differently, especially if you throw in the Corvette.
>
> I would call the civic si more of a sports car than the miata. Miata is too
> slow! What is sad is you shouldn't have to supercharge it. It should come
> that way if it were a true sports car.

Like I said, it depends on what you call a "sports car." The current Miata

[Daniel D. Bauer]

"Lee Cao" <lig...@leecao.SPAM_BE_GONE.com> wrote in message

news:DQ817.7779$Lc3.1...@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...

> "Tom Too" <tom...@softhome.net> wrote in message

> > Heck, my 540iT station wagon can blow away most of the cars on that

list.
>
> What? in acceleration, handling, aftermarket parts support and being an
> enthusiast car?
>
> The 540iT is a nice station wagon, but I doubt it quite falls into the
same
> league as an S2000 or Z3.

I think you'd be surprised with the 540 wagon (you've obviously never driven
one). The handling and acceleration are incredible for a car that size and
shape. I'd take the wagon over any of the mentioned cars any day of the
week, and I don't even have a family to haul around.

~ Dan

[Joe Schmoe]

I've actually seen plenty with rainbows on it. Although I've seen many more
convertible automatic V6 Rustangs & Camaros. The point is, if you think
this isn't a real sports car, you don't drive cars for sport. Anybody who's
ever gone on a thrill-ride with me in the countryside has had no doubt. And
try getting the amount of aftermarket parts in any of the other roadsters.
You won't find it.

<b...@pacifier.com> wrote in message news:3B44AB40...@pacifier.com...
> Big Woop!! Wow your apple IS redder than my orange. IT HAS BEEN
MODIFIED.
> The MR2 and Miata are so close in performance (splitting hairs), if we are
> to deal with modified cars, then the real comparison becomes the cost and
> quality of the aftermarket parts. The MR2 is so new it doesn't have the
> advantage the Miata has in the aftermarket department.
> For me being able to go to the store with my wife shop for groceries and
> have room for 7 grocery bags (a full shopping cart). Makes the Miata a
> better one car daily driver. Its a lot more utilitarian. Also having a
> convertable top with a glass window and defrost makes winter easy. Also
the
> Miata's top is the fastest to flip up and down, and can easily be done in
> less than 2 seconds while seated in the drivers (don't have to even
unbuckle
> my seat belt).
> Both MR2 and Miata are simmilar real fun to drive cars.
>
> BrianW :-)
> PS. I have yet to see a Miata with a rainbow on it. But then most Miata
> owners have nothing to prove. Homosexual people can and do own every type
> of car. There is no such thing as a car for homosexuals! Grow UP!!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> dweezil wrote:
>
> > Read-em-and-weep, boys
> >
> > http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/archives/features/feature01_0601.shtml

> >
> > On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 00:52:45 GMT, "rick osborn"
> > <rick_s...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Price, image factor and mechanical longevity aside.
> > >
> > >Which is the best enthusiast car:

> > >strongest acceleration, best handling, and widest availability of

> > >aftermarket parts for upgrade?
> > >
>

[Joe Schmoe]

Ha ha ha! You'd be insane to even thin there might be a reason for the
Miata not to have a larger aftermarket. The car has been around since 1990.
The Miata aftermarket is already 10+ years old.

"slacker808" <slack...@isp.net.com.edu.org.mil.gov.etc> wrote in message
news:MPG.15ae61ebc...@news.earthlink.net...

> i'd say that you have to drive each car and decide for yourself.
> everyone has different preferences for a sports car. as for
> availability of aftermarket parts...
>
> Z3 - not much. because the car is perfect out of the box. ;-)
>
> S2000 - Mugen, Neuspeed, Comptech, a few others.
>
> MR2 - TRD offers the most parts for this car. and i think i read
> somewhere that a third party is making a turbo kit.
>
> Miata - i think Jackson Racing still makes go fast parts. not totally
> sure.
>

> .
>
> so i think the S2000 and the MR2 come out on top for aftermarket parts.
> i'm pretty sure there are a lot a parts for the Z3, but i think most of
> the manufacturers are based in Europe. you'd probably have to hunt down
> a speed shop in the states that specializes is BMW's.
>
> ---
> rich

[Joe Schmoe]

Let's talk about real pretend cars. In the case of both the Vette and the
BMW, more automatic transmissions are sold than in the manual configuration.

[tullio]

Purest feeling wrote:

> My point is i don't like the car because of what mazda claims it is, but is
> not.
> If it is supposed to be a sports car, make it for that reason, not to be a
> 'cute' car.

I'm missing something. What is Mazda claiming it is? And what is it really?

I think Mazda intended it to be a lightweight sports car (in fact this is how
it was described internally during development), and that's pretty much what it
is. They could have made it like the Mercury Capri which was introduced around
the same time, but they didn't. If you look at the specs, you could not come
up with a better modern interpretation of the classic British and Italian
sports cars: front engine, rear-wheel drive, fully-independent suspension,
DOHC four cylinder, manual transmission, 2-seater, drop-top, minimal power
doo-dads (although the power doo-dads have been growing the past few years),
and an available TONNEAU COVER for cripes sake!

Todd Kuzma

[Alicia & Mike Romac]

Of course you'd take the wagon....you've already taken the damn wagon! If
Compromise is your game, why not see how much a supercharger is for a
suburban, then you'd REALLY be able to toss a lot of groceries/soccer-kids
around in the back as you drove around town.
Mike
"Daniel D. Bauer" <d...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:F0a17.36070$mj7.6...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...

[GRL]

GM is improving in that regard. I bought a Yukon XL last year and interior
plastics appearance, touch, and feel are a LOT better than our '92 Corvette
was. Not quite up to the quality of our LS400, but not bad either. The
engine and transmission are excellent. And this on a truck. I just read the
latest AUTOMOBILE magazine where a staff writer praises the quality of the
new Cadilac DeVille and Seville interiors as BETTER than the S-Class Merc he
had just spent some time with. Not as good, mind you, better.

GM/U.S. quality has been slowly, but steadily improving for a long time to
the point where they are, from what I've experienced and read, the best of
the U.S. brands and the equal of the European brands. Not up to Japanese
standards, but good nonetheless. Our Yukon XL has been extremely reliable
with just one trip back to the dealer for a defect (dead power window motor)
in its 14 months. That's a heck of a lot better than I had expected.

- GRL

"Lee Cao" <lig...@leecao.SPAM_BE_GONE.com> wrote in message

news:hM817.7776$Lc3.1...@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net...

[Myk]

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:39:26 GMT, "Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net>
wrote:

>My point is i don't like the car because of what mazda claims it is, but is

>not. If it is supposed to be a sports car, make it for that reason, not to be a
>'cute' car.

In fact it is *exactly* what Mazda claims it to be. A Sports car in
the original sense. It's light, has RWD, 2 seats, convertible,
generally a 5-speed (about 90% of them are manuals), has a race bred
suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, is very light, has a 50/50 weight
balance, and most importantly is fun as hell to drive. It is perfectly
neutral in handling while properly blending power, suspension, and
braking into the performance triangle (where so many have more of a
line than a triangle doing one or two things very well but falling on
their face in the 3rd). It wasn't designe to be a road burner and a
decent set of aftermarket tires takes away most of the gripes from the
start. I'd say it's not only a true sports car (including the fast
that it's faster than the majority of the original sports cars. Look
them up if you can figure out what one is!) but it also happens to be
among the best ever made to date.

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:35:17 GMT, "miggedy mike"
<mikeinlakew...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Myk" <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message

>news:gpg9kt0mjcd55kjbp...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:22:57 -0700, b...@pacifier.com wrote:
>>
>> >Funny that is just what I thought!
>> >By the way, all the Honda dealerships would not sell the s2000 for less
>than
>> >$41,000 (quite the dealer markup). So I got the Miata and the
>supercharger
>> >etc. I loved the benefits of the Mazda's experience with convertable
>> >roadsters. Although the Miata is a more refined design, Mazda still
>doesn't
>> >come close to Honda service and customer support. As soon as the Mazda
>> >dealership saw my supercharger they informed the Regional Service
>Manager. He
>> >voided my engine and drivetrain warranty immediately. When I took up the
>issue
>> >with Mazda they said they support the Regional Service Manager.
>>
>> Funny how they sell exactly the same powertrain w/ supercharger out of
>> the factory in Japan but just don't have the guts to offer it in the
>> US market...
>>
>
>that is odd... does it meet EPA specs?

It should. The Jackson Racing one even meets the Republic of
California's Draconian Emissions Standards. It uses the same unit out
of the factory. My guess is that they are still paying back the US for
making them glow at night. Haven't you ever noticed that they never
send the hot versions of their cars over and that the few they do send
are watered down and 'Americanized'?? Hmm..

[Myk]

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:36:07 -0700, "Ryan" <lum...@lummer.com> wrote:

>i'm not talking about where it came from.

Then how can you possibly say something as stupid as you did and
intend to justify it? You can't. End of story. Next contestent?

>
>"Myk" <miat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message

>news:cmg9kt0j5rif3jg4g...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 16:22:07 GMT, "Ryan" <lum...@lummer.com> wrote:
>>
>> >the only real Mazda was the RX-7.
>>
>> That's funny. The RX-7 wasn't the first Mazda. In fact, it wasn't even
>> close. If that was the only Real Mazda what was the brand called
>> before that car came out? Go back to Jr. High.
>>
>

[Myk]

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:49:16 GMT, "Purest feeling" <now...@exit.net>
wrote:

>I would call the civic si more of a sports car than the miata. Miata is too

>slow! What is sad is you shouldn't have to supercharge it. It should come
>that way if it were a true sports car.

This Degrassi Jr. High student obviously doesn't get it.. A grocery
getting hatchback with a mildly warmed over engine, FWD, a crappy
shifter placement and a sound that comes from dying hamsters is a
sports car? Go back to class kid..

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 22:28:27 GMT, kemper...@t-online.de (Frank)
wrote:
>BTW: I've read raving reviews about the new sequential gearbox of the
>MR2. German Car Magazine Auto Motor Sport said, it was the first
>sequential gearbox they liked.

I'm just hoping it's a lot better, faster, and more
positive/responsive than that junk they put in the IS300. The tranny
in that car turned me off of buying a car that otherwise is excellent!
1.2-1.5 seconds between button press and shift is rediculous! Even the
Dodge Intrepid's system is better than that. <shudder>

[Myk]

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 03:15:49 GMT, "Joe Schmoe"
<totalit...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The point is, if you think
>this isn't a real sports car, you don't drive cars for sport. Anybody who's
>ever gone on a thrill-ride with me in the countryside has had no doubt. And
>try getting the amount of aftermarket parts in any of the other roadsters.
>You won't find it.

I've taught 11 people how to drive a manual in my anemic underpowered
little 1.6 liter Miata. Four of them swore they'd never waste their
time with 'that girly car'. All four now own one! out of the 11 people
I taught 8 of them currently have Miata's and one is looking for a
good deal on a 2001 model. Six others, two were muscle car drivers,
bought Miata's after spending seat time in mine. Hmm... I can't recall
any other car that has that sort of attraction based on driving it. If
you just look at it from the outside you'll never get it. On paper
it's boring unless you read the comments from the people who drive
them (and buy them). Get out to a dealership, a friends, etc. Get your
hands on one for an afternoon. Hit a few corners (not just freeway
cruising around the block test drives). It sells itself like no Honda
save for an S2k can do.

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 19:39:49 GMT, slacker808
<slack...@isp.net.com.edu.org.mil.gov.etc> wrote:

>i'd say that you have to drive each car and decide for yourself.
>everyone has different preferences for a sports car. as for
>availability of aftermarket parts...
>
>Z3 - not much. because the car is perfect out of the box. ;-)

<biting tongue unless he's limiting it to the M-Roadster.. and even
there...>

>S2000 - Mugen, Neuspeed, Comptech, a few others.

>MR2 - TRD offers the most parts for this car. and i think i read
>somewhere that a third party is making a turbo kit.

..and TRD doesn't have much out for it yet. The car is new and the
aftermarket is more geared around wheels/tires at the moment. Give it
a few months.. and maybe after a few guys start buying them! The
'85-95 MR2's have a pretty good aftermarket but you have to hunt for
it.

>Miata - i think Jackson Racing still makes go fast parts. not totally
>sure.

There are about 35 vendors in the US with Miata-specific parts, then
you get into the international scene and it swells up ten-fold. I
would not hesitate to say that it has the most aftermarket support out
of the group listed, especially for performance variations and supply,
than anything else listed in here.

>so i think the S2000 and the MR2 come out on top for aftermarket parts.
>i'm pretty sure there are a lot a parts for the Z3, but i think most of
>the manufacturers are based in Europe. you'd probably have to hunt down
>a speed shop in the states that specializes is BMW's.

The S2k comes in ahead of the MR2 but both fall below the BMW and well
below the Miata for aftermarket. It seems that most of the BMW support
is geared to their sport sedan lines and ways to make their
lower-level cars eat the M3's. Plenty of go fast goodies and quite a
few of them should work on the Z3 with a little modification. I
haven't looked in a while though.

[Myk]

On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 01:49:31 GMT, "Lee Cao"
<lig...@leecao.SPAM_BE_GONE.com> wrote:

>Okay... I think I read somewhere that the respectable handling
>characteristics of the C5 only applies to the coupe. The roadster is one of
>the worst vehicles in terms of chassis flex and cull (spell?) shake.

I'm no Corvette fan (though I'd not mind one for track duty) but the
C4 fit your description. The C5 is quite stiff, on par with if not
beating the Mercedes SL series (which are the tanks of convertibles).
Very solid, very rigid, and designed as a roadster from the start. The
roof panel in the C5 is not a stressed member like it was in the C4
(or the older Supra's for that matter.. God they were horrible if you
took the targa out!)

[Myk]

On Thu, 05 Jul 2001 23:30:31 GMT, David <dge...@SpamIsEvil.texas.net>
wrote:

>In the "small, fast car" category, it's hard to beat the new Subaru
>WRX... (be even better if you can bring in a non-USA model...)

I've driven the Imprezza 2.5 RS on a few occasions, even drifting one
on snow-covered roads for an afternoon (fun as hell and easy in that
car!) but I haven't managed the new WRX version. Looking forward to
that soon if the dealers can get one in. Price wise it's about right
and leaves plenty for mods.

Another small, agile AWD car that is very comfortable, reasonably
priced and has a lot of potential is the Audi S4. Driven 6 of those
and like them more every time I take one out. A chip, exhaust and
intake puts it over 300hp pretty easily and it sounds quite good.
Short on headroom and not the best shifter though..