ABS- Is it worth the price?
Ron Russell
Also it seems there has been no significant difference in accident rates
between cars that have ABS or not? Is it worth it?
Ron
WillDaBeast
Jason Spencer
Ian McOwan
little hard downhill i the wet. It worked very well and stopped me ending
up in the front car's rear end.
The problem is that most drivers believe that ABS is some sort of special
braking which "makes the car safer" or some other BS. The reality is that
the car will always use its normal braking systems unless there is wheel
lock-up, which normally only happens in emergency braking.
Here in Australia, the research showed that the reason for the similar
accident rates between ABS and non-ABS equipped cars was due to this driver
attitude. Drivers in ABS-equipped cars accelerated harder, braked harder
and applied brakes nearer to the place they needed to stop. Therefore, they
drove more aggressively resulting in higher accident rates, which ended up
being similar to non-ABS cars.
It is easy to tell when the ABS kicks in; the car sounds horrendous, the
brake pedal vibrates and the entire car sounds like it's about to fall
apart. For many drivers who do not understand this, when it happens, they
take their foot off the brake and re-apply.
The Australian government has since started an ABS education program, which
includes brochures in all new ABS-equipped cars explaining the use of ABS
braking. When it comes to whether you need it or not, it is up to you.
Hope this helps.
Ron Russell wrote in message
<29028-366...@newsd-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Doug Weiss
road) and then you will be very glad you had it. Sort of like an air
bag....you hope you never need to see it work.
You DO have to break differently in a sudden stop...you hold the brake
pedal to the metal, so to speak...just hold it down...don't pump the
brake.
BTW...I've had a couple of occasions where the ABS brakes saved
$1000's of body shop work...eg. Deer on road coming around a
corner....
I wouldn't buy a car without it.....and even my miata has ABS.
jrgu...@my-dejanews.com
used during the incident. So if you have an ABS car and it's parked in the
street and I come along and hit your car, guess what? Your car is in the
study! I've also heard that this "study" was paid for by a group of insurance
companies, which it would be to their advantage to find ABS "not safer" that
normal brakes, and then stop giving discounts for them.
In article <74irb0$ovt$1...@m2.c2.telstra-mm.net.au>,
"Ian McOwan" <imc...@vic.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Driven a car that had ABS brakes. The ABS went off when I had to brake a
> little hard downhill i the wet. It worked very well and stopped me ending
> up in the front car's rear end.
>
> The problem is that most drivers believe that ABS is some sort of special
> braking which "makes the car safer" or some other BS. The reality is that
> the car will always use its normal braking systems unless there is wheel
> lock-up, which normally only happens in emergency braking.
>
> Here in Australia, the research showed that the reason for the similar
> accident rates between ABS and non-ABS equipped cars was due to this driver
> attitude. Drivers in ABS-equipped cars accelerated harder, braked harder
> and applied brakes nearer to the place they needed to stop. Therefore, they
> drove more aggressively resulting in higher accident rates, which ended up
> being similar to non-ABS cars.
>
> It is easy to tell when the ABS kicks in; the car sounds horrendous, the
> brake pedal vibrates and the entire car sounds like it's about to fall
> apart. For many drivers who do not understand this, when it happens, they
> take their foot off the brake and re-apply.
>
> The Australian government has since started an ABS education program, which
> includes brochures in all new ABS-equipped cars explaining the use of ABS
> braking. When it comes to whether you need it or not, it is up to you.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ron Russell wrote in message
> <29028-366...@newsd-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
> Down South, we do not get the snow and ice many other areas get.
> Also it seems there has been no significant difference in accident rates
> between cars that have ABS or not? Is it worth it?
>
> Ron
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
WillDaBeast
i would have gained anything from having abs....the one accident i had
in the rain was unavoidable...i was approaching a 4 way intersection at
night in the rain, i was unfamiliar with the are, and did not realize
that the stop sign on my corner was missing. i locked the breaks, and
they, being well balanced, brought me to a screeching halt in the side
of a cavalier.
jrgu...@my-dejanews.com
In article <366D5A02...@goth.wav>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mitch
relatively modest price not being worth it. I agree, one shouldn't
depend on it. At the same time, assuming one drives and brakes in a safe
manner, having the system at my disposal in an emergency seems like a
potentially life saving asset to me.
WillDaBeast wrote:
>
> in my measly ten years of driving i have never been in a situation that
> i would have gained anything from having abs....the one accident i had
> in the rain was unavoidable...i was approaching a 4 way intersection at
> night in the rain, i was unfamiliar with the are, and did not realize
> that the stop sign on my corner was missing. i locked the breaks, and
> they, being well balanced, brought me to a screeching halt in the side
> of a cavalier.
--
Mitch
mi...@ntso.com
WillDaBeast
jrgu...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> wouldn't ABS stop the car sooner because it's not skidding on the wet?
>
> In article <366D5A02...@goth.wav>,
> WillDaBeast <su...@goth.wav> wrote:
> > in my measly ten years of driving i have never been in a situation that
> > i would have gained anything from having abs....the one accident i had
> > in the rain was unavoidable...i was approaching a 4 way intersection at
> > night in the rain, i was unfamiliar with the are, and did not realize
> > that the stop sign on my corner was missing. i locked the breaks, and
> > they, being well balanced, brought me to a screeching halt in the side
> > of a cavalier.
> >
> >
>
Dave M.
maintenance headache, not to mention the initial cost. If you are a skilled
driver you don't need it.
- Dave.
Ian McOwan
whether or not ABS was used, then cars without ABS who were hit while
stationary would also be included in the figures, which would probably
compare to the ABS-equipped cars and therefore would have no major effect on
the final figures.
Any researcher with an ounce of integrity will tell you that all studies are
flawed in one way or another, whether it be through researcher bias,
problems or limitations in statistical manipulations or sampling. However,
just because there are limitations are present does not mean that we throw
away all the work, throw our arms in the air and declare the entire lot a
waste of time.
I answered John Russell's query about whether ABS was worthwhile. I gave
information, as best I knew it, that would help him come to a decision for
himself.
If you don't have anything to add to a discussion, don't bother wasting
everyone's time.
jrgu...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<74jdml$s5l$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
|> Down South, we do not get the snow and ice many other areas get.
|> Also it seems there has been no significant difference in accident rates
|> between cars that have ABS or not? Is it worth it?
|>
|> Ron
|>
|>
|
Powder Lvr
or wet pavement, that I can stop faster with my ABS than if I just lock them
up. However, on loose gravel or slush, and sometimes powder snow, it seems I
am able to stop faster without the ABS. The tires just seem to roll over the
slush, the ABS thinking there is little friction available, and so I just keep
going, whereas if the tires would just lock up and dig down, they'd reach
pavement and the friction found there.
I can disengage the ABS in my prelude at will, and so can test both situations
back to back. There are rare but occasional times where I disengage it for
driving. Sometimes I want to skid.
-Josh
z
>
> Down South, we do not get the snow and ice many other areas get.
> Also it seems there has been no significant difference in accident rates
> between cars that have ABS or not? Is it worth it?
>
> Ron
Unfortunately, since I specifically wanted it in my car. On snow/ice,
it's too enthusiastic, shutting down the brakes entirely when I have
some traction available. I know this, because I drop the thing into
first and it slews to a stop. And the ironic thing is I've tried
steering on ice with the brakes on and the ABS chattering away, and it
just plows straight ahead. So I don't win either way.
jrgu...@my-dejanews.com
"Ian McOwan" <imc...@vic.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> According to the idea that all car accidents were included in the study,
> whether or not ABS was used, then cars without ABS who were hit while
> stationary would also be included in the figures, which would probably
> compare to the ABS-equipped cars and therefore would have no major effect on
> the final figures.
>
> Any researcher with an ounce of integrity will tell you that all studies are
> flawed in one way or another, whether it be through researcher bias,
> problems or limitations in statistical manipulations or sampling. However,
> just because there are limitations are present does not mean that we throw
> away all the work, throw our arms in the air and declare the entire lot a
> waste of time.
>
I was just trying to say that from what I recall the study was funded by a
group of insurance companies and of course they would not find it safer since
then they would have to continue giving a discount which of course affects
their bottom line.
> I answered John Russell's query about whether ABS was worthwhile. I gave
> information, as best I knew it, that would help him come to a decision for
> himself.
>
I was not questioning your information or you, I just thought I could add
something to the discussion. If you agree, fine, if you don't, that's even
better, maybe I can learn something. But, please don't get on my case
because I gave my opinion.
> If you don't have anything to add to a discussion, don't bother wasting
> everyone's time.
>
I thought I was adding something....to take all studies with a grain of salt.
If I was wasting your or other's people time, I apologize.
> |> Down South, we do not get the snow and ice many other areas get.
> |> Also it seems there has been no significant difference in accident rates
> |> between cars that have ABS or not? Is it worth it?
> |>
> |> Ron
> |>
> |>
> |
headbone
contropl has saved my hide twice!
If you dont want it to engage simply brake a littleslower (ice,snow etc)
but if you are heading into a surprise pile up of traffic and have a clear
lane right....shit!! brake and swerve you fool...
e
Ron Russell <ron...@webtv.net> wrote in article
Begawk1
help on dry pavement as well as on wet/gravel/snow. Not to mention you can
steer while breaking hard. Near my home in NYC thier is traffic circle that is
a free for all and even if you are going slow and somone in front of you breaks
hard you will lockup the breaks w/o abs due to the degree of the turn. With abs
this should not happen. I just got my car and have not used the abs yet and I
hope not to ever have to but if I need it, it's nice to know it's there.
GKnighton
Would you mind if I suggest you DO test your ABS system before you need it?
The system on my GS-R is not too intrusive, but some systems make such an awful
noise and send so much feedback to the pedal that drivers react inappropriately
and get in an even worse accident than they would have without ABS.
Please, please make sure you know what your ABS feels like and sounds like when
it comes on.
--------------------
<<Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.>>
WillDaBeast
sounding, the whole car shuddered and the modualtion was pretty heavy, the tires
were chirping cause it would go from full lock up to impending lock...it was a lot
of fun cause it scared the crap out of passengers, they though a wheel had fallen
off or something.
DChan14876
>Date: Sat, Dec 26, 1998 09:43 EST
>Message-id: <19981226094331...@ng109.aol.com>
>
>I just bought a new car and decided I would not consider a car w/o it. It
>will
>help on dry pavement as well as on wet/gravel/snow.
>From: beg...@aol.com (Begawk1)
>Date: Sat, Dec 26, 1998 09:43 EST
>Message-id: <19981226094331...@ng109.aol.com>
>
>I just bought a new car and decided I would not consider a car w/o it. It
>will
>help on dry pavement as well as on wet/gravel/snow.
> [snip]
I just found out that the ABS works even without you braking hard. It seems to
work whenever skidding happens. I was driving on a wet, mushy road the other
day and the ABS kicked in when I was stopping before the red light. I braked
well ahead but when skidding occured, the ABS took over.
--D Chan
headbone
when you get all green tho' its like a giant skidpad...
e
Begawk1 <beg...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981226094331...@ng109.aol.com>...
> I just bought a new car and decided I would not consider a car w/o it. It
will
> help on dry pavement as well as on wet/gravel/snow. Not to mention you
can
> steer while breaking hard. Near my home in NYC thier is traffic circle
that is
> a free for all and even if you are going slow and somone in front of you
breaks
> hard you will lockup the breaks w/o abs due to the degree of the turn.
With abs
> this should not happen. I just got my car and have not used the abs yet
GeorgeKnighton
:)
WillDaBeast <beelz...@demonic.org> wrote in message
news:36853861...@demonic.org...
Adam Cross
hard... In the event of a break and avoid situation, ABS allows you to
maintain control while under full breaking.... If anyone feels that ABS is
a detriment or not worth it doesn't really understand the benefits or, has
used a car with a really old, or cheap (like low-end GM systems) ABS system.
z
chattering away. On the other hand, it completely inhibits my ability to
stop on a slippery downhill. i know i have some traction, since i end up
stopping by dropping it into first. not that pleased with the system.
Powder Lvr
without my ABS, either locking the wheels or else by breaking skillfully right
short of the threshold of skidding. Has anyone seen any data proving that ABS
is actually slower to stop than non-ABS (locked wheel condition) in common
situations? I wonder sometimes wonder if the extra stopping distance needed
is worth the gains in steering control for the average driver. I drive hard,
and can feel my ABS engage almost at least once per day. What do other drivers
who use them hard think?
-JT
Ret2Xanadu
could. All you need to do is slow down enough to turn safely. I don't have
ABS but whenever I have to stop suddenly I slightly turn the wheel so I can
know if it locks up and when it does, just get off the brakes. If you are very
close to an accident, the best thing to do is to very lightly press the brakes
and turn at a high speed. For example, if you are going 40mph and are about
to hit someone, press the brakes lightly to slow down to 35-38mph and turn your
car to avoid the accident. This way, you can control the steering wheel
better. When you are pressing the brakes full force, most of your focus is on
the brakes, not the steering wheel, so even if you can steer with ABS, it's
very hard to steer in a quick accident when your muscles are so tight from
braking.
GeorgeKnighton
hard as they should to stop an accident from happening. They believe so
strongly in this that the newest Mercedes vehicles have a "brake assist"
function that puts the car into full-stop-ABS function if it seems the
driver is hesitating applying the brakes fully.
I think ABS definitely has a place. However, you really MUST know what the
brakes feel and sound like in an emergency, and the "stomp and steer"
technique takes some getting used to and could be dangerous if you don't
understand it or if you drive some cars that don't have ABS in addition to
your vehicle that does.
I think your advice is dangerous in that most average drivers will not have
the presence of mind to always have a steering way out of an emergency in
every second that they're driving on the road. People just don't drive that
well, and have too much on their minds to always have a steering way out.
ABS allows you to stand on the brakes, achieving full braking efficiency,
and still allows you the option of steering around an accident if you have
the presence of mind and reflexes to do it.
Ret2Xanadu <ret2x...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19981228050244...@ng-fc2.aol.com...
GeorgeKnighton
z <NOSPAM...@ibm.net> wrote in message news:368747...@ibm.net...
GeorgeKnighton
car faster without ABS.
I also think that in normal driving situations on wet and dry pavement that
ABS is a great comfort and achieves maximum braking efficiency.
My experience with ABS is limited to a '98 GS-R.
Powder Lvr <powd...@aol.comQQQQQQQQ> wrote in message
news:19981228014149...@ng38.aol.com...
>I am convinced that there are times when I would be able to stop more
quickly
>without my ABS, either locking the wheels or else by breaking skillfully
right
>short of the threshold of skidding. I drive hard,
Angela J Driver
<powd...@aol.comQQQQQQQQ> writes
>I am convinced that there are times when I would be able to stop more quickly
>without my ABS, either locking the wheels or else by breaking skillfully right
>short of the threshold of skidding.
I once read an article on ABS (can't remember where) and it stated that
stopping distances were, at times, longer with ABS. I think this is
probably true, but my last three cars have had it on and I am convinced
that overall, ABS is a worthwhile option. I find most benefit on icy,
wet surfaces, where even at low speed the ABS often kicks in and gives
you some sort of control.
--
Angela J Driver
WillDaBeast
years now...and it was actually a surfing nickname anyway